123: Perfect | Deborah Brock and Nua Fertility

0:06 Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend, and this is money, never sleeps. We look inside the minds of entrepreneurs, and at the crossover of startups, Enterprise Finance, technology and Life. As We Know It, This episode of money. Never sleeps is sponsored by p80 fintech training partner that demystifies fintech and digital Finance for financial services professionals on the show. This week, we've got Deborah Brock. I am Deborah Brock, and I'm founder, and CEO of new. Naruto see sharing her story on the origins of new, a fertility here in Ireland. Why it made so much sense to adding educational elements in a community, ethos to the value proposition, finding Global Partners and bringing new a fertility to market during the year. That was 2020. All right here on money.

0:48 Never sleeps. Why don't you tell us your back story? How you got to this point? Connecting the dots really from your time and nonprofit in the educational sector, really up to founding new of fertility and how that happened. So, I suppose, I guess for me, I've always worked with people and communities. So that was my biggest thing. I study sociology, and then fell into education after that. So, I'm always curious about solving problems, such as sociologists would look at what I look at the world. And people and it was really, really, really lucky. Honestly, my early career I got to work with some amazing communities and People supporting them. So, a lot of our work was around poverty and how we can support people out of poverty, and I love this. I absolutely loved us and I like a lot of people. Well, not like a lot of people, but I met my soul mate. I got married and thought I was gonna have a baby and it didn't happen.

1:48 So and let that didn't happen was, it was a bit of a shock I suddenly got thrown into this world of infertility, which I never knew even existed. And I suppose from that then that onto our own personal. Her own person story of trying for a baby. So we got the news that we would never get pregnant naturally, and it was delivered like that. It was delivered really likely you won't get pregnant naturally. So we went to the clinic and when we mess with different doctors, we were never actually asked what we were doing in our own life. We were never asked a better lifestyle. We weren't asked about smoking or alcohol or diets and nutrition. It was all very medicalized. I was a very passive patient. Aunt, which used to surprise me because I'm coming back quite vocal about opinions and the world and other things. And I don't mind challenging people. But when it came to the doctor, it was like, nope. They know what's best, you know?

2:40 Yeah, select living in Ireland for 15 years. I have noticed that time again, where people are like, listen, the doctors word is the doctors were. Yeah, they got to be right. Yeah, we don't question know and you would think as well for us because we've been through three failed Cycles, right? There's this misconception I think that We'll have that when you go through IVF or XE like we did that. You just walk away afterwards with a baby. That's not what happens at all. It's such a hard journey. I think it wasn't really until we move clinics that we suddenly went, hang on a minute, you know, the penny dropped that. We've really big role to play in, trying for a baby along with science, and we met the most amazing and Progressive doctor. And we changed our, our whole outlook. We looked at our nutrition.

3:25 We looked at our lifestyle and we made substantial changes. And because of that, we had a really successful round and we're now blessed with the most beautiful hul daughter from that. So, I also what I say to people is going from a passive patient and when you've been through fertility treatments, people will save this. You suddenly then have a PhD in fertility, because you go from one end of the extreme to the other. And and that is, of course, through us, you know, researched everything. And I suppose my sister would always say about us growing up that I was nosy, but I actually call it that. I'm just really curious. And I like research, like I absolutely love it, right? So I love reading science, journals research Journal so I was constantly doing that anyway for our own fraternity house because I like women dreams of new research that came out to my doctor and say, how do you seen this?

4:12 What do you think about this? And she said, and listen and basically laugh at me and but it paid off because I suppose that got me really thinking in this whole world of fertility, and fertility, health, and other people who are going through their journey and struggles, and because my background was in community and people and always wanting to help, Help it just naturally led me into thinking about moving into the spaces and entrepreneur. Like I hear a lot of people talking about, oh, you know, always wanted to own my own business and that wasn't for me. I happened to fall into that because I wanted to be able to support others. That's really interesting going through that experience but this natural helpfulness there which you find that a lot of entrepreneurs, right? That there is a problem to solve, you're not the only one with the problem.

4:58 There's going to be other people with that problem. Me want to help them solve that problem? Yeah, right. Tell us about the new fertility business, how you got it? Started and kind of what you're thinking about in terms of longer-term vision of the business. Yeah, I mean, I think when it one of the biggest things for me was this aha moment where part of my research and reading, I suddenly stumbled upon the microbiome or ice and, and most people, when they talk hear me talking the same, the micro wash that you're talking about, Good Health, you're talking about vagina microbiome, you're talking about what? Has that got to do with your fertility? Well, it's got a loss to do it, actually. And it's a huge new area of research that's up and coming. And for me, I just got excited.

5:39 I mean, I read it, I read it this piece that it was you know the GI tract is the size of two. Tennis courts, right to tanks. Okay. Wow. And when you get exactly what do you think of that you suddenly go come on. Of course this has to have an effect on your overall health and wellness but also your fertility help. So to me that was just astounding and at the time It's really great that anyway feeling around. We got a lot of entrepreneurial supports through the likes of Enterprise are islands and and the Leo's. So I approached a I and I applied for an innovation voucher and I'm a goddess and I rocked down to Cork to ABC microbiome. So they're one of the biggest Resource Centers in the world.

6:20 They've got top 10 researchers when it comes to the microbiome and they're just unreal like amazing. So I went into them. So I think there is this connection here between In the gut, microbiome and fertility. Let's start looking at a piece of death research to hopefully, then move into an orange, a partnership as we went along. And that's when it started, then we started looking at product development and that's where newer for women are first. Proprietary product was born. So essentially we developed it's a first-of-its-kind fertility, supplements for men and women who are trying for baby, which contains vitamins minerals and good bacteria. So, the live bacterial strains combined, with the others, So it is the first of its kind on the market at the moment. Okay.

7:04 You proud of that. It's my formulation with patent pending on us. Yeah. It's been a labor of love to get to that point when you start talking about a prototype, right, when it's a tech startup in you're talking about building a wireframe and pulling together, some slide, we're making it look like you got something there but it's just images to get people interested in what you're doing. How did you actually come up with a prototype of a supplement? When I went through some of the entrepreneurial programs, a lot of them were all Tech as well, so you can see their process is where they were getting to like a see it. Then I'm like, wow. But I have to have run, like, I have to get manufactured. Now, I have to get a pilot run, I have to oh my God, we're how am I gonna do that?

7:50 You know, that just really led into that. We have to do that. You know, we weren't like others who couldn't be everybody's to talk about be extremely lean, you know and a lot of my Listen, I'd watched my God, not that. What they're doing is easy because it accidently wasn't, but I knew, I had to have a pilot run. I had to have no batch of our product, so which meant I'm going to have to have a lot of capital to be able to do this, but firstly really, to find a manufacturer who wanted to take you on. When you think about it, the time for me, I was approaching people as an unknown company, a startup. So, new brand new products, the product formulation the potentially hadn't. We looked at before and I had to get them to buy in and then the with me so yeah it's a jump, it's definitely a jump but I can hear the determination in your voice.

8:40 Oh yeah. In terms of okay, I've got a problem to solve. I want to help others solve it as well. Get what is effectively a prototype going and is that just all right Rock up to a global manufacturer Rock up to a distributor and say hey here's the recipe. You know, can you do this for me? We had a guy. Call Dean Klatt on from see golf couple years ago and he is doing golf balls, right reverse engineering golf balls for Supreme performance. He basically said he found a manufacturer. He had developed a formula for golf ball that was going to work better than anything else and said, hey, you know, can you build this for me? And he was all about design and all about the engineering side of it, the scientific side of it and found someone to actually do the building in the manufacturing of them.

9:29 It is it along those lines that you've approached it. Is this one logic jump too far? No, you're absolutely right? I mean, obviously we had to working with ABC microbiome at the beginning as well. And looking at the concept of the idea and where it's going, and they did a lot of that death research for us prior to that. But then it really was a case of in at the moment for us as well in Ireland. I couldn't get a manufacturing around so that was the first kind of hurdle you'd want to automatically go to an Irish company. But we couldn't find one here because obviously we're dealing with Life bacterial strains and they was in a manufacturing plant that would have that. But also for me is well it wasn't a case of just choosing a manufacturer wanted to choose a manufacturer that had as a research and development is the heart of them as well that had education because that's really key to what we're trying to do.

10:17 So I wanted to try and align ourselves with the company that was like that and I suppose I, you know, it sounds funny. I know I wanted to align ourselves, you know, we had nothing but go big. Yeah. Well, Look, I hope, you know, I kept getting told in the beginning. Well gosh, you're going into really, really saturated Market your plate with these big sharks big players. Right now just capturing this Non-Stop and it used to drive me mad to the point where I go. Yes, I recognize that there are lots of players. Yes, that I recognize, there are big sharks, but I am a small fish that can swim very, very, very fast. We're going to be okay. And that was, you see my response all the time? Because, you know, we can identify We could adopt we could do things that large organizations couldn't do. And that was a really big help because I think when I approached and manufacturers and I approached a global manufacturer, I approach to put a few of them, it was a case of picking up the phone and talking them. Through speaking to their scientists, the formulation chemists working with the microbiologists going through a formulation coming back and forth, but then getting them to buy into us.

11:24 You know, I had to show them that this was so unique. Our product is so Different. It's also in their interest to do something slightly different and because they had never done this either. So they've got, they were intrigued and the project kind of sparked their interest. Then obviously from a logical point of view, they need to look at it. Make sure that we can Finance it and we are who we are, you know, our future production runs are going to be there and we can we can we can manage that and I had to sell that to them. Say yes, we are, we have Global ambition. You know, we are looking potentially down the line and to the Chinese Australian markets. So You know, say don't worry, we're going to be here and then I hacked. It was really a case of making sure that I believed myself. You know, I used to talk myself up before every call and I used to kind of remind myself.

12:11 Look you've done this. You take the leaf, you left a job. You love you. Absolutely love what you're doing. You're well able, they're there. They're bound to want you. Do you think has helped hugely? Because haven't been on the personal Journey, effectively understanding it from the End, customer point of view. Did that help with those? Conversations. Like you done the research from a personal point of view? So you weren't just someone who had come across this potential opportunity, you understood in huge detail which is why they brought them around to why they should work with you. Yeah it's massively did. Yeah I have to say and even from a manufacturer, I mean one of the first things I got back after our first conversation was heated was so energized after a conversation because your passion just runs through, I can really see where you're going with this so they can see this and everybody keeps telling us you know to pass And Brandon and the really believe in it.

13:02 Because, you know, at the other end, I am my own consumer and I want to be really mindful of people are going through these struggles and their Journey. It isn't easy at all. You know you have to be really careful in what you're doing and you can't make promises either that's to be so certain because you know, one of the things I always said is there isn't a magic doctor. There isn't a magic pill. There isn't a magic Clinic that's going to get you pregnant but what there is is being able to support yourself. Be the armed with information and education, a huge part of our business and our company of what we want to do is Community Education and our product because that's what we really truly believe in. You know like really supporting people on their Journey as best as we can providing with the education information and supports the third that basically that you're armed and informed about your fertility Health out of 100 couples, 80 of those will successfully be pregnant after a year so it's about a 25. 20% chance of getting pregnant in any given month, if you are a healthy couple. So it's that window is really, really small, but because I suppose growing up or your Early Education and school or even true throughout your college life. We were always told you will get pregnant. If you touch somebody.

14:18 You know, you that that is just magically happens, you know, so suddenly then, when you actually tell your body, I'm ready. I want to get pregnant and then your body goes up there. You're going to have on hand of these toes. Before you. So this should just happen, why isn't it? And I think for me, it's really important to be able to do that and support people to show them that their future for Tennessee. Because you know, if I had known the issues, we were going to have at 28 and then obviously, by the time I was 22, but I did go through all that treatment and what it started with my husband earlier, I would have known them, the challenges that we had, but I may act in this vocal that a lot of us still live in, which is a lovely purple if you can be, but it's just maybe.

14:59 Making sure that you're armed with that information, you know? And I always believed that, if you're informed, you can make your choices yourself, right? You can make ejected choices if you are informed. So that's what we want to do. It near fatality is creating that space to do that. I suppose the flip side, maybe it's a passion project. Everything is built on your own experience and and a passion that you put into it. Have you found then on your journey then as a founder and CEO as you've built this and has that been a detriment of? At times that kind of passion or have you learned different skills as you've developed as the entrepreneur then to say, well actually maybe too much passion at times, hasn't been helpful. Yeah, I've absolutely learned when to hold back.

15:43 Yeah, I think. But I think that's as an entrepreneur, we all learn those skills. I think as you grow along, like each new Milestone, you hit that you suddenly grow for the next stage beyond the Elio funding and the EI funding. What has been the Approach that you've taken to funding new of fertility beyond the earliest investments in Grant? Yeah, I mean, it was like up my biggest thing I was from the beginning was and make sure that you get the Leo resources that are there. First and foremost, I don't think people take that as serious, as they can because you've got the feasibility G to the priming ground to this expansion before you even move in anywhere, near Enterprise Ireland. Because I think a lot of people forget about the grants, so you're not giving away any equity and you're still being able to finance. Quite well.

16:30 So we did that with our wickedly. Oh, and they were amazing amazing to us. We're on the cusp of of Eli and HKS. You so the only life's ones we've actually got was the to Innovation Ventures at the beginning. We haven't touched, okay? I'll since then, and then on my own private investment from ourselves, our personal, and then it's more nerve-wracking than through family. So we haven't done anything yet. We are they see here? We're going to embark on our next kind of funding round, but we haven't had to be want to do. Try to get as far as we could without having to do that. If that makes sense. You know, we had the like to be able to enable us to do that. I suppose I've got had really great mentors as well.

17:11 Along this journey. I mean again it comes back to me talking about education but I really do believe, arming yourself with people around, you asking them for help and then learning from them, you know, not just asking and going away not doing anything with it, like, literally really listening to what these people are telling you. They've been on this journey, they may be over. Mistakes. Why am I going to go and make the same ones? Absolutely not and the Irish ecosystem here of entrepreneurs and people wanting to again it's that wanting to help and be helpful is amazing. Like people aren't have no problem with you just reach in Arlington and saying, can I ask, how did you do this? I saw you did, maybe grip crowdfunding or use this could. What was your experience? Yeah, no problem.

17:53 Let's chat. You know, so that was really good. Are you looking to take further steps with that? And how Do you want this to get pretty big? Okay, well, pretty big in the sense of this morning. I just had a 7 a.m. Zoom Cole with the distributor in Australia, who looking at our growth strategy for China Australia. So, so yeah, pretty big. We need to have to consider, as well as like, if I take it back a little bit as well. Like, we've, we launched last year. And obviously, you know, during the middle of the pandemic, we were originally supposed to have Lon Just around April, but we'd had seen quite a few manufacturing setbacks, which we knew were going to happen. Because I think at the beginning of this journey, again, everybody tells you takes twice as long twice as much. And I always remember saying to myself, my dad is a builder and I always thought, okay, this is like having a new house project. They always cost more and they always take longer. So, just keep putting that in your head and you don't get stressed about us and it sounds silly, but it did help me. And it worked for me, I kept envisioning the With my new, my new house.

19:01 So we ended up then we launched in August. So any August of last year and started selling online. So we've obviously an e-commerce website. And we've been gone from strength to strength, we secured our first IVF clinic this week, which is called first IV. After a brand new Clinic is opened with a whole set. A distribution deal here in Ireland with Whole Foods. We have another distribution in Northern Ireland. We are in talks, and I would a UK distributor. And we've just Set up on Amazon as well. So we're kind of pretty busy, so, I bet, yeah, yeah, and how many people in the team now? So now the team has grown to three full-time staff, members, and two part-time.

19:43 And I think, you know, our team have to say of everything that's about this company. The team is what's holding together. It's our infrastructure, I have the most amazing team. We work. Collectively together, we joke. Like a family, we kill each other. We argue, we tease things, eyes, we joke, we slag each other, but it works, because we've all got the same value system. We've got the same vision of where we want the company to go. And we've got the same belief in education and community and the product. So I mean that Mary's and works and I wouldn't I wouldn't we wouldn't have anything or where we've gotten to your like, that team. Yeah, it really interesting and having done that and getting live during the pandemic.

20:29 All right, talk to a lot of companies were like, well, we had to shift gears. We had to talk to people about, obviously, a different way of working, when working from home or working remotely putting these new tools and processes in place, but it sounds like launching right in the middle of all of this. That was the status quo. That's how you did things. What can you tell us? How that work? Yeah, it's like it absolutely is we've all been working remotely and obviously, we have a new hire this year, which is, you know, the in January and I do any math. Hooray me through z or teams, we've never physically mess. I had met her in August and she's dated small bits of contract work for us and I remember our first meeting at the end of it before we finished, I just said I'm just letting you know, you're going to be working for me full-time. And she's like she laughed.

21:15 I said no, no, just just letting you know you're working for this. Yeah. Because she immediately aligned with what we were doing, you know, you an excuse the pun, but that good feeling about somebody. Yeah. And I think I go with that always and always have done. And so, she just fit it in brilliantly. But I think the online translation is I have to say like for us has been really amazing because, you know, before Christmas, we did a fertility form. So we brought experts together, so fertility, doctors embryologists, reflexologist acupuncture, cancers, just everybody and anybody who's in this space and I think we'd back 45 or so if we were to do that in a live event or organize it, it just would never have happened.

21:56 But it organically came together with all these People on Zoom really easily, who wanted engage with each other. You have to be thinking constantly about visibility and credibility. So they're my two to Mattress that I just kind of keep going by. If like, we're just doing doesn't drive either of those, their get dropped, because it's very quiet time. And so, for me, that is a lot about The credibility was always this to build a Advisory Group and advisor into. So we have people who are in Northern Ireland, the UK, Australia, Dubai, who can come together. Whether to support newer facility and how tribe forward? I don't think that would have happened if we were in the situation we're in. Now with that transition to online working and it's really being again, another backbone to what we've been doing. And I listen to each of those, those individuals, you know, because they're the experts.

22:49 So my job is to listen to them and get get that support and direction. This episode of money never sleeps sponsored by p80 fintech demystifying, fintech and digital Finance for financial services professionals. P80 fintech enable Financial Services professionals to transform their capabilities into the digital age with dedicated virtual training programs geared towards those. It can develop deliver and monitor optimally customized user experiences, balanced by appropriate, governance, control and oversight to learn more about p80 fintech. Go to money, never sleeps. .I e, /p 80. In Tech. I suppose does it create a challenge as to how you maybe look to position this product because there's all the different people that you've mentioned there. And like I said, when you're talking about education and maybe for people who haven't even thought about the Journey of getting pregnant and they're thinking that it's years away. But actually, you know, maybe this is a product that is of benefit to them, well, ahead of time but there's probably an immediate need of customers but then there's customers that don't Even know, they could be customers. Yes.

23:58 If you know what I mean, how are you going to strike that balance between, how you may be positioned as a fertility product? Versus this? Could be a real benefit to you for that time in the future? Yeah, I mean, I suppose, to through our marketing efforts and how we kind of segmented people. I see if you hit it on the head, we how we do this, we put it into the, are you thinking planning or trying? So thinking could be your future for Tennessee? So, you're thinking about your futures for Tennessee, you're thinking about your health now, You're thinking about what that's going to look like and you being educated around. And so our messaging and our key pieces are very different to each of those customers in those segments of that make sense and that helps us. And I guess, you know, the immediate people are the ones where, you know, there is an initial problem, and they want to solve, and they're looking for that solution. My big thing is and I'm really passionate about this as and I go on and on and on about education, but I really do believe that.

24:56 That there's a bigger role that can be played from the Irish government and from the department and the type of educational programs that we have in school. I just mean, I think we need to open the conversations wider. We need to look at the curriculum. We need to say guys. Yeah. In a classroom of 30, you know, you're talking about preventative measures which are so important. You're talking about STDs. So important, I get that. But you also need to educate people. Those 30 people in the class of potentially, four of them may have issues. Future, you know. Oh yeah. And for me, I'm really like when we look at that, there's so much that we as a company do to really support that side of the business. And I think as well, the other side, when you look at in Ireland, we are washed where the two countries in the EU that don't provide any fertility supports for patients.

25:46 So if you've been somebody who has maybe growing up roping, born had undescended testes which will affect your sperm count in the future. That is a man. Medical condition, right? The who defines infertility as a medical condition or if you've been through maybe Cancer Treatments, there are some small supports there. But other than that, you are not entitled to any supports. So, you know, if you go in tomorrow for your heart or anything else, you will get support through up. Yeah system, but you don't for fertility treatment. Do you see at all? Because I've seen this with some of my friends and who shall not be named but where, you know, that L pride of of course, I'm okay, right?

26:30 Why wouldn't I be okay, prevents them from actually embracing a program or actually figuring out. What's going on. Is that a common Trend? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's in the mail Miss of the masculinity that the side of it. I do think there's been a common Trend up until a few years ago where it was always the first thing that even doctors would say is okay to female investigations. You know when that's the mail came to Parts the issues. So it wasn't as highlighted or talk to base but when you look at it now it is 40%, female, 40 percent male and 20% undiagnosed rice. So it is, yeah, I hope so. So good for Tennessee is equal for genders.

27:13 So this is, this is a serious issue that's happening. And I think one of the bigger things that's been coming down the line that really I think is really scary for men is its lot in the last 40 years, you know sperm count has dropped by half by 50%. Don't I read that recently? Yeah, I thought I saw it was in Wired Magazine or something was very powerful. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's that's the signs written scary enough to scare people. You know, you don't want to, you know, to push people to that, but it should make you open your eyes and be a bit more aware of future, you know. It did the whole Rod Stewart's thing, the whole age thing for men, that doesn't exist, guys, like it actually, you did, you do have a biological clock, you know? So maybe if she she's, I think it's that awareness is why I love being being really aware.

28:00 But I mean, last week though is that, I don't know if you've comedian and the UK is in a big campaign around male, infertility, awareness, and it's brilliant. It's gone viral. People are really talking about it. Now there was another show, one of their love item guys. I don't know him but he was doing these pieces around you know, infertility male side and fertility that it because his brother had gone through. Oh yeah, Chris Hughes and follow, I follow on it. It's his highlighting to may be in order. Yeah, absolutely may not have thought about this, you know, so I think, you know, for us as a company. These are all important things that we have in our head that we want to be able to do because they're key drivers.

28:42 You know, if you even take out of the social aspect, what that I took like. When I talk about like that and you bring in the economic aspects of it, globally, birth rates are dropping. And for Tennessee is if it's one in age couples world. Wide. It's the tending towards 1 and 4 and aren't. It's 1 in 6 in the UK. Now, that is how is really shocking numbers and when you think from even an economic point of view, I kind of looking at well, who's going to be here for us when we get old? He's, if we don't have that, we need to start thinking about our Pocket Edition. Think about scaling globally, Deborah, and applying that educational component to different geographies, different markets, adapting that for different markets.

29:24 Yeah, that's going to be a really interesting. Challenge to take on, isn't it? It's definitely going to be very interesting. When we look at, you know, in China in particular, it's a very different ball game is a very different beast, but even from our educational strategy and proposals, it needs to be completely different. I mean, even even like I'm marketing, there is so different and how they do things, you know, in weibo WeChat everything is is done. It's just very, very different. I mean, I remember I think it was a channel in China. I don't know how well it did put it this way, but it was called fertility UFO. That will just give you an idea of the different style of video marketing and messaging.

30:06 Okay? Yeah. So so it is interesting that I think this is well, you know, you to be really Mindful and respectful of other cultures to and that's something that, you know, really taking on board. But the likes of saving Australia are very similar to our land, which would be globally similar to our education system, Australia, Scotland, and Ireland In my old work would be where I would have always looked for good practice so like looked for an education or I come based programming. So in that way, it's good for us. Yeah absolutely. That that cultural parallel does help it strikes me that you have more than just a normal kind of challenge, you know. Obviously the companies that we talk to ourselves or even work with but you have to find markets where people have been brought on this journey by their government or by society as well as As just trying to find people who are looking for this product.

30:58 You know, it's probably extra layers of kind of complexity to, you know, going into a new market that many people wouldn't have to face with it with a different type of product B. But I I personally think it's probably because I put those layers on because I'm interested in policy. I'm interested in what cultures doing I'm interested in watching his. Yeah. So I have a feeling I have a lot of that influence when it comes to those those those pieces but I think again for us is that We're not a typical company and I don't think we ever want to be a typical company. You know, we're not just simplement supplier. We're not just a fertility supplement, we want to be different and it's always been in that DNA of ours to do that. And, you know, to drive a Ford that when we talk about Community Education, the products we really believe in each of those pillars, you know?

31:50 And the like I talked about the research and development early and not very much, but that's a really key. Key core part of us moving forward and our future development, to hopefully try be able to start some clinical trials, as well. And that's where I want it really pushes us into. And also, look at her own novel products trains that, you know, we're developing and going want to move forward with a PC microbiome. That's always been there. But there's me with my these big Ambitions Big Ideas. You still have to crawl before running a marathon Maybe. Bunch of a little bed. I always, you know, I kind of remind myself and put myself back into that box, constantly Visionary thinking the head but then be very realistic about where we are as a company.

32:39 How we are growing, and how we do that in a very measured approach, you know, I'm very Mindful and for me, that's how we operate that I presume all of that, probably Narrows down the likes of the companies, or the people that you've been looking to raise funding from, there's probably different categories of part. Runners that you'd prefer based on what additional things they can bring or companies they've supported in the past. Yeah I mean I do I absolutely think you need to find somebody who's going to add that extra value to you. You need somebody he's going to guide you as well. I like people who want to work with us in that mentorship capacity and that they're invested in what you're doing. And they believe in what you're doing. I think for us what the challenge really usually, isn't you mentioned earlier a lot more of your maybe people to come on the podcast.

33:24 Have you know, A key businesses or fin, or SAS or whatever and we don't fit in any of those models, you know, and they're lovely and glossy and not a lot of people like, maybe potentially that's new products and I think as well in the kind of Health space that were in, they might get scared. Also that fertility because all I do I know nothing about this. Maybe it's not for me. I don't think that needs to be the case actually because you've got a lot of us who know that space But he needs additional pieces that you would bring that other skills. It says that we don't have when you're looking at it, overlooking an investor somebody wants to come on as an advisor or even people who were working with Dublin. Big have been amazing for us as well. Mention guys are a really great supports. You want to make sure that they're the fish for you, but that their skill set is something I don't have that. I can absolutely learn from because if you don't have them all.

34:17 So I be looking for somebody who really adds value to us and it where I see the gaps in our team. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, in Ireland were lucky That we have here, this med, tech Community, this life sciences community on the investor side that are heading up. Some of the Angel investment syndicates and I've been looking deeply at that sector over the last six weeks or so to try to get my head around it. In terms of how angels are investing and what frequency are they investing in Ireland? How many deals are they doing per year? Yes, right. To try to figure out that whole side of it and I think they're there's going to be some interested folks when you want to get that. Moving. Like you said, it's not just about writing a check.

34:59 It's about, there's this natural helpfulness, believe it or not, that angel investors have as well. Yes, right. And they want to be able to do something. We had Chris Adams, back on the show a couple years ago, he invested in 17 fin Tech deals last year. Well, during the pandemic 17, okay? And I think the most active, Irish Angels do a couple of year, right? And you know he said, listen I'm I will only look at a company in depth and About investing if I can truly help them. Yeah, yeah, right, because that's what he's there for. He's not just going to write a check and walk away. Yeah, right so I think you there's going to be some opportunities for you to find some similar types of investors here in Ireland, with the concentration of Industry segments that we have here in this space.

35:42 So the I think that'll be pretty interesting. Yeah, you and I can talk. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You know we're there there there's a little bit of that ahead of us. Whatever. Absolutely listen. We we have, we have covered Topics on the show we never have before, right? And I would like to thank you for absolutely for bringing fascinating bringing this to us and enriching our view of the world and enriching our view of product based startups getting to Market from Ireland with global ambition. So thank you and there is a famous last question that we do like to ask everybody and I will let my friend.

36:23 Owen, do the honors with this one because well, What is that? Yeah, so tell me Deborah. What is it? Something people would not expect to know about you. You know what actually occurs? Because maybe because of everything I just talked about. Yeah. I'll tell you the truth on this one. I used to play full contact would be. Wow. Okay, both your faces better. Wow. Yeah I loved it. I have to say II joined the ladies team here and graystone's. The graysons Rugby Club which are amazing. By the way, an amazing bunch of women pregnant. I love forth, and of team sports. It's and didn't know I'd like contact sports but because we played tag would be. And I used to just keep trying to drive through people and capping Taco people's that you're not supposed to do that.

37:07 So I got roped into it to the to the field contact which was amazing until I got a concussion and then the end of my career because my mother told me that I was a to Old had just started a start-up had responsibilities, don't need to be getting the concussion so yeah. Very good. How wow. Yeah, that's interesting. And did you find any rugby logic and strategy cross over into your day-to-day Drive? Yeah, absolutely team team. Yeah, actually. There's quite a lot of synergies. Yeah. And just resilience, you have to keep going at it. Even if you do get knocked in and when I did get knocked down and pushing through people. Yeah, which is barriers or and big people so they could be bigger, bigger Market.

37:55 It's bigger companies. Yeah, slots. Yeah, you know the hand off and I'm like, I'm coming at this from a different angle. Obviously not growing up with rugby, like the to you have. But you know slowly getting my head around it, over the last 15 years. But listen Deborah. Thank you so much for coming on to the show. Yeah, it's a real pleasure to thank you both. And thank you and you've put a brand new company for me. Me to watch. Now going forward on my radar. So thank you. Good. Thank you so much Honesty. Go to really enjoy this. That does it for this week folks and you can learn more about Debra Brock and new a fertility in the show notes on our website money, never sleeps that I eat.

38:48 So check us out online and subscribe to our weekly. Money, never sleeps newsletter as well. Also, thanks to Conan Brophy, from create sound for mixing and editing. This episode Conan is an excellent medium and to get in touch with when you're thinking about launching your own podcast. As for me, I'm an early stage. Art of advisor. And investor would like, to talk to me about your business, drop me a voicemail on money never sleeps. That IE finally till next time, thanks for listening. See you