295: VC For the Rest of Us | Shuttle | Scott Ashmore and Rob Halligan

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Money never sleeps, pal.
Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend and

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This is Money Never Sleeps.
We look inside the minds of

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entrepreneurs and at the
crossover of startups,

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enterprise, finance, technology,
and life as we know it.

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This week, I sat down with Scott
Ashmore and Rob Halligan, Co,

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founders of Shuttle, for a
conversation that hits the sweet

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spot between gritty founder
resilience and an incredibly

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timely mission.
These two lifelong friends went

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from dabbling in crypto together
to building a platform that's

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opening up access to a world
that's traditionally been locked

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away behind velvet ropes.
Venture Capital Shuttle enables

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busy professionals to Co invest
alongside well known venture

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capital firms regardless of
their knowledge, network or net

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worth.
Since launching in December of

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2024, they've already enabled
their customers to invest

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alongside 15 VC funds.
What really stood out in this

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chat was their unfiltered take
on the founder journey, starting

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with a product that didn't
scale, pressing pause and making

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the tough call to get regulated
before they could go live.

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It's a story of grit, guts and
building the tool they wish they

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had when they were just getting
started with investing.

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In this episode we get into what
it means to take the private out

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of private wealth.
Their two year grinds get

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regulatory approval, designing
seamless UX for a new generation

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of digital first investors, and
the rise of retail as an LP

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channel for VC funds.
This is the story of two

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founders who aren't just
building tech, they're flipping

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the script on who gets a seat at
the venture table.

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So let's dive right in with
Scott Ashmore and Rob Halligan

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from Shuttle.
All right here on Money Never

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Sleeps.
All right, guys, listen.

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Wonderful to have you both on
the show, Scott Ashmore and Rob

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Halligan from Shuttle.
Thanks for jumping in.

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So let's get started with the
story right in the back story.

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I know that you 2 are long time
friends, but wanted to kind of

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get into that a bit and see how
that happened.

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So Rob, maybe kick it off and
just kind of give us your origin

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story and to the point of where
you met Scott.

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Yeah, me and Scott go back
coming up on 1/4 century now.

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I think we're about 23 or 24
years since we first met, about

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12 years old, and have been
hanging out ever since.

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Certainly didn't know we'd be
building the company together

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all these years later, but it
seems to make sense.

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To be honest, I like to think we
make a pretty good match.

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So yeah, young kids out on our
bikes and their skateboards and

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run into each other.
A mutual friend of ours that I

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was hanging around with lived
close to Scott, and that's where

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the connection was made.
And then all these years later,

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I think it was probably about 10
years ago and I started dabbling

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in the world of cryptocurrency,
which was kind of an early

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catalyst we weren't aware of at
the time that started all of

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this.
So I've been a soft French here

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for the guts of almost 20 years.
And I was working in London and

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a friend of mine I was working
with was deep into crypto.

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He was like literally working on
Bitcoin.

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And he introduced me to a couple
of crypto exchanges and I just

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got hooked immediately.
And that kind of set me down the

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path of investing.
And obviously things just

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escalated from there.
You just you expand your kind of

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desire of things you want to get
into.

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So yeah, the interest of
investing just crew

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exponentially from there.
OK, good.

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And when did the penny drop?
Really.

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So 2016, we started looking at
cryptocurrency.

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I had started working at
Salesforce the year before, so I

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was in investing in the employee
stock purchase plan and the

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pension and whatnot.
And that was I guess my first

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kind of step into any kind of
investing.

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And then cryptocurrency came
around.

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Myself and Scott started
investing together in

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cryptocurrency in a bunch of
different coins.

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You did quite well.
We started looking at platforms

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that were coming available at
the time, the likes of E Toro,

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Mrs. kind of before the gyro and
Revolute and whatnot.

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But it was that inflection point
in public markets had happened

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and it was starting to become
democratize for the sake of a

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buzzword.
And we started exploring what

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else is out there.
And I think the thing about

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cryptocurrency, one thing it did
do for all of the craziness that

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happened back in those earlier
days, and obviously there's

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still some craziness now, is
that it birthed at a kind of new

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generation of investor.
I think it drew a lot of people

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in.
Now, unfortunately, people

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definitely did get burned, but I
think a lot of people have hung

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around and a new generation of
investors come out the back end

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of it, People who are a little
bit more pro risk, willing to

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look at alternative options and
opportunities.

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And that was definitely the same
for us.

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So we started looking around and
see what else is out there.

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And we wanted to look at private
market opportunities like

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venture capital and private
equity and all these interesting

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things.
And we realized quite quickly

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that that is a world that we
don't belong to, right?

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Historically is being reserved
for very wealthy or the well

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connected and we didn't see a
way into that nor did we feel

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typically welcomed in there.
We kind of let it die for a

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little while and forgot about it
maybe and continued with what we

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were doing.
And we were investing more in

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public market equities and
funds.

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I was working at Salesforce,
Scott was in London building

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consumer experiences for the big
giants of the world, but also a

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lot of startups.
I was selling into a lot of

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venture backed tech companies in
the UK at Salesforce and was

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very close to a lot of very
interesting companies that were

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growing, raising capital.
Some, some were exiting and that

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was a kind of typical thing that
an ongoing conversation every

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day across the floor amongst my
peers and colleagues.

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And the one particular client
that I thought I was going to be

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selling a contract into at the
end of the fiscal went quiet on

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me.
And there was only towards the

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end of the year that I saw a
Tech Crunch article flash up

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that they had been acquired by
work Day.

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And that was kind of another
catalyst and aha moment.

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I wonder how did the employees
do, how did the founders do off

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the acquisition?
And why can't someone like me

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who has relevant skills and
experience in a similar

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industry, get access to
opportunities like this?

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And then me and stock came back
together on and thought there's

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other people like us out there.
There has to be.

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And let's go figure it out and
see, does a platform like this

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exist?
And if not, maybe we can look at

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building it.
It's an interesting perspective

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because with that moment where
you realize that perhaps the

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founders, employees of the
acquired company might have done

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OK with that.
Did you have a certain

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relationship with some of these
users of sales force, these

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clients of sales force that you
got closer to them to start to

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understand their journey a bit?
Was there any of that in this

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that kind of gave you an
affinity for the upside of early

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stage startups?
Yeah, for sure.

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And not just me.
I mean, this was a, this is a

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conversation every day I'm
working on a floor of hundreds

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of salespeople all selling into
interest in companies.

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And you get emotionally attached
to these businesses because you

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could be working with them for a
year, 2 years.

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And then even if they move to
somebody else's territory, you

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know the names, everyone you're
familiar with, the different

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companies that those
conversations are now

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continuously ongoing with other
account owners, whoever is

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managing the relationship after
you or before you.

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So you get quite familiar with
these companies.

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And as a as an account
executive, I think particularly

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selling a solution like
Salesforce, which is a very

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broad solution that can plug
into every department of a

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company.
You get a kind of front row

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siege to the growth of these
businesses.

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You get very tight with their
executive team and their

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management team get to learn
about their objectives, their

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challenges, where they're going
over the next 1224, sixty months

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and building solutions to help
them get there.

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And it's impossible not to get
very attached to those

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businesses.
But as a result, you're also

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listening to the news about
they've just raised their series

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ABC.
They've just hired 100 new

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people.
They're entering this new

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geography.
So you're seeing all of this

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happen and hearing all of this
and getting kind of connected to

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their journey as a result.
There was just this massive

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interest in seeing these
businesses grow and thinking I'd

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love to play or even share in
that upside in a different way

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than just to selling them
technology.

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I get it.
I get it.

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It's a really interesting entry
point into Venture.

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You need that empathy, you need
that founder empathy, and it's

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awesome that you got that
through Salesforce.

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Scott, for you, was there a
foundational experience that's a

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little bit varied here or was it
pretty much along the same lines

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as Rob?
Like Bill for consumer products

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and experiences for some of the
big tech companies in the world,

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but we also worked with a lot of
startups.

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I would be in charge of building
these products for startups and

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I would build the product for
three or four months and then I

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would just have to say goodbye
to it.

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So like you've built this
product, like Rob said, you've

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become emotionally invested in
these products and then you just

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have to say goodbye to them.
You put in all this work and

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then you've just got to let go
of it.

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So it felt like I want to be the
owner of these products.

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And so I think those more
probably my foray into being a

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vendor, it's like I don't have
to start keep building products

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for somebody else.
I want to build products for

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myself.
And and it just have happened

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that I was building products for
venture backed companies on big

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venture backed tech companies.
So it kind of naturally led me

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towards that path.
Yeah.

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That's uncanny that it's like
Rob had kind of the commercial

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side figured of this to some and
that Scott you had the product

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and engineering side covered to
this at from your inspirational

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standpoint for doing this, it
makes perfect sense, right.

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But in hindsight, it's kind of I
mean you guys are pals.

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So you already had that covered
in terms of the relationship.

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And probably if one person who
had this product experience in

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building UX and building
products for venture backed

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startups that didn't know the
person who had worked with the

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commercial side of it, with
startups through their CRM and

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through their customer tools,
that you probably wouldn't have

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been able to come together if it
was 2 randomers, right?

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It was a fact that you already
had a trusted relationship as

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friends that allowed you to get
started with what became

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Shuttle.
A lot of questions are already

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answered and things that don't
even need to be thought about

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when you start a company with a
very close friend, because that

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trust is already built and you
know each other so well that you

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can just skip all of that dating
period and they've gone and just

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get cracking.
OK.

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And tell us what is Shuttle
today and give us an insight

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into the origin story of when it
all started and some of the

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early days and decisions that
you made about it.

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Yeah.
So for those who aren't familiar

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with us at all, we enable busy
professionals to build wealth by

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Co investing with well known
venture capital funds regardless

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of their knowledge network or
net worths.

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So that's the one liner and how
this kind of came about really

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as myself and Scott, we were
investing together and we wanted

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to explore these new
opportunities, but didn't have a

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way of doing that and we
couldn't find a way of doing it

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that suited us.
Like a traditional crowdfunding

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platform didn't speak to us
whatsoever.

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We didn't like the model.
We didn't think their incentives

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were aligned with the investors
and it just wasn't a fit for us.

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So we said, well, surely there's
other people like us out there

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who might be thinking the same
way.

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Let's, let's figure this out.
We were able to realize that

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it's people like us that are
probably going to be interested.

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So people may be working in tech
or tech adjacent industries who

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are maybe a bit closer to the
coalface and seeing these

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companies.
Because if you work at a tech

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company, whether it's startup or
big tech, you'd probably have

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00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,600
stock options, which means
you're invested emotionally and

230
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,720
monetarily in the company's
success and maybe a bit closer

231
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,920
tied to, you know, their
fundraising and their growth and

232
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,280
things like that.
So we weren't then we surveyed

233
00:11:55,280 --> 00:12:00,400
and spoke to to go to 300 people
working across big tech and late

234
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,680
stage scale ups and startups to
ask them, what is this stuff?

235
00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:08,920
Do you invest if you do with you
know, or would you be interested

236
00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,080
in other opportunities and why?
And the data that came back was

237
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,840
just a resounding yes.
People were interested in

238
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,160
wanting to invest in startups.
They would invest in the VC fund

239
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,360
if they had their opportunity.
They understood the illiquidity

240
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,600
of the asset class and they
would use applications that

241
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,720
simplified the access points and
the process.

242
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,160
So that was enough validation
for us to kind of kick off that

243
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,360
journey, a journey we had no
idea what was it was going to

244
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:40,200
look like and went down the
route of starting to build and

245
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,960
also get licensed by the
regulator, which was the biggest

246
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,400
kind of hurdle to get over.
And thankfully we were

247
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,080
successful in that late last
summer.

248
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,040
OK, very good.
And you've been candid about

249
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,720
some of the early meandering,
perhaps, that you might have

250
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,520
done to find your way to this
point where you are now.

251
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,480
Was there a turning point in all
of this for you that made you

252
00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,240
realize that the initial route
to market that you had selected

253
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,320
perhaps wasn't going to work and
that you needed to do it

254
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,440
differently?
Yeah, and so typical of green,

255
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,440
ignorant and naive founders when
they're starting their journey.

256
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,080
We thankfully what we did do
right was we validated the

257
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,080
opportunity and asked people, do
people want this?

258
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,800
And then what we continuing in
that guys is we asked we started

259
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,240
connecting with lots of people
in the startup space, investors,

260
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,640
mentors or their founders and
stuff like this.

261
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,280
And we spoke to tons and tons of
founders about their fundraising

262
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,920
journeys.
And I guess the one thing that

263
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,000
we hadn't learned yet or we
hadn't fine-tuned was our filter

264
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,280
for when you listen to people's
advice, knowing what to take on

265
00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,160
board, what to scrap, and you
know, which directions to

266
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,320
follow.
And as a result, we probably put

267
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,920
too much weight into what people
were saying and ultimately ended

268
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:59,160
up building the wrong thing.
While it was still geared

269
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,880
towards allowing people to
invest in startups, it also had

270
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,400
a bunch of other unnecessary
elements tacked on, I think it's

271
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,560
fair to say.
So he spends quite, quite some

272
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:09,920
time kind of building that out
now.

273
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,480
It became revenue generating.
We launched are we left our old

274
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,680
roles, our old jobs in February
2022 and we launched our beta

275
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,480
and we had about 5 or 600 people
on that somewhere.

276
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,480
And then at the end of the
summer we started generating

277
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,000
kind of micro revenues, but it
wasn't related to the investing

278
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,400
side of things.
And then around Scott, I think

279
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,480
it was maybe October, November
time we realized thankfully we

280
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,640
had the wherewithal to realize
and admit to ourselves that what

281
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,720
we have built and what we're
building isn't going to scale

282
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,920
long term.
This isn't the thing we've gone

283
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,440
off course here.
If we want to build what we had

284
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,240
originally envisioned them, what
we think we want to build, then

285
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,240
we have to scrap it and we need
to go head first into

286
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,520
regulation, as painful as that
might be.

287
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,600
So that meant going to the
customers we had just to just

288
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,520
signed up and saying sorry,
shutting this down.

289
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,240
We're going to be scrapping
basically all of this and won't

290
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,720
be operating right now or for
the foreseeable until we get a

291
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,840
license from the central bank.
It was just, yeah, really

292
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,240
difficult decision, obviously,
Rob said.

293
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,000
We had some revenues coming in,
but I remember and we think we

294
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,640
just got back from web somewhat
and we had an investor coming

295
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,080
over from Spain to visit us and
we got a little meeting room

296
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,840
together.
And I just remember being

297
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,440
incredibly nervous because we
just sit down and talk to him

298
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,400
and say, look, we don't think
this is working.

299
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,440
We need to do something else.
I'm just thinking about, hey,

300
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,800
they might react to that after
like investing money in the

301
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,320
business.
Fair play to him.

302
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,760
He was just like, he totally got
it and he was like, good guys, I

303
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,280
invested in you if like it's not
the idea I invested in.

304
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,000
So just do your thing, but I
trust what you can do.

305
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,120
That was Scott.
Did you have to throw out a lot

306
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,280
of the product that you had
built?

307
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,160
We did have to throw out a lot
of the product that we built.

308
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,840
We managed to repurpose some
like we had these all these kind

309
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,080
of feedback tools where you
could give feedback on startups,

310
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,120
pitch checks and stuff like
this.

311
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,320
And we just kind of repurposed
all that to help us run our own

312
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,920
internal dividends process on
companies that come into our

313
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,400
system.
So there was a lot of reuse.

314
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,360
So we have to change some
things, some things just to say

315
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,200
goodbye to.
But we did get to reuse some

316
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,680
stuff.
All right.

317
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,520
Did you guys have full agreement
on this as a direction to go or

318
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,760
were there some negotiation
discussions between the two of

319
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,800
you to figure out the way to go?
If there was definite

320
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,520
discussions, we talked for a few
days about what's not working,

321
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:25,720
what is working, what it was
always like.

322
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,240
We both knew this isn't working
in its current state and we need

323
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,120
to refocus on really who was our
actual ideal customer and

324
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,760
serving the customer as opposed
to serving multiple different

325
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,200
types of customer.
So we knew what we needed to do,

326
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,240
we just had to get together and
figure out exactly what the next

327
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,280
steps were.
I think it was more of a case of

328
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,160
getting over the fear and to
pull the trigger on it more.

329
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,240
So it just took a couple of days
for us to kind of let that idea

330
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,520
settled in our heads.
It wasn't that there was

331
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,560
certainly no clash between us
like 111 to go one way and one

332
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,520
the other.
We both knew.

333
00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:00,640
But we just, it just took maybe
2223 days for us to actually

334
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,520
say, you know what, OK, scrap
us, we need to go again.

335
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,079
And thankfully, I think it was a
kind of a stiff iteration as

336
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,920
opposed to a full pivot.
We were still the direction that

337
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,280
we wanted to go was still there.
We had just kind of gone off

338
00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,480
course, built a bit of a
unnecessary tooling around the

339
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,400
idea.
So I think it was a bit easier

340
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,520
than a complete shift in in
direction, thankfully.

341
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,080
Yeah, I've gone through that
once in my career.

342
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,640
And the decision to go in the
right direction, no matter how

343
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,040
fearful the course ahead may be,
that decision can be liberating,

344
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,600
right?
Did you feel that there was some

345
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,960
some things to let go of that
actually felt really good to let

346
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,240
go of, to go in this new
direction?

347
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,560
As hard as it was, just because
of the time and energy and

348
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,120
effort that's gone into, even if
it was the wrong thing, so much

349
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,320
work had gone into what we've
built and people really liked

350
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,280
the tool that we had built.
And so we've gotten so much good

351
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,360
feedback from it.
So it's just kind of like that

352
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,400
initial fear.
But once we made that decision,

353
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,880
definitely felt like, OK, we can
leave all of that behind and

354
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,120
take we can take all of the
learning from those last several

355
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:15,680
months and bring it with us and
leave all of the bad stuff

356
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:17,400
behind and all of the stuff we
don't want.

357
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,000
So that's kind of a liberating
feeling.

358
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,560
I.
Think it was incredibly exciting

359
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,560
just being able to shift focus
to the ultimate vision and

360
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,240
thinking purely in the future
direction.

361
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,040
But also we knew we were both
stepping into what was going to

362
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,680
be an incredibly long, a
difficult regulatory process

363
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:35,760
with the Central Bank of
Ireland.

364
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,360
So that was like, I mean,
completely unknown to ourselves.

365
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:42,320
Like we probably thought of the
time like this will be probably

366
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,600
3 months and we'll be done.
But as we know it was going to

367
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,560
take almost two years.
But I guess that's the benefit

368
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,480
of naivety of being a vendor.
Yeah, well as well, you know,

369
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,520
the fact that the European
crowdfunding regulation was

370
00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,680
brand new, right.
And the other recent, well not

371
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,760
recently, but in the past new
regulation, the was it PSD 2

372
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,080
with the the Payment Services
Directive, the second version of

373
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,200
that, they introduced a new
regulatory licensing called an

374
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,160
account information service
provider, AISP.

375
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,160
And David Heath, the founder of
Circuit, he taught himself that

376
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,240
and he did his own regulatory
submission around that.

377
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,800
It took him a good year, but he
saved a big chunk of money doing

378
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,120
it that way.
But it was a brand new

379
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:33,240
regulatory licensing in Ireland,
and he was the first one to do

380
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,520
it.
And so he had to figure it out

381
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:36,440
himself.
And there's an element of that.

382
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,800
Did you guys have to really dig
in to truly understand the

383
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,080
regulatory framework, the new
regulatory framework?

384
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,320
We were two founders with no
money, very little cash in the

385
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,920
bank, no knowledge of
regulation, So we were out.

386
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,960
I fit on our own trying to
figure this out.

387
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,560
Now, we'd worked with solicitors
and whatnot who were helping us,

388
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,280
but because of the lack of
budgets, it meant that they

389
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,080
could only be used very
sparingly.

390
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,240
It was up to us to draft all of
that and figure out the

391
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,080
regulation and why we should be
gone then using this particular

392
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,200
license and where that's going
to get us and everything.

393
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,640
So yeah, a very steep learning
curve I would say.

394
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,480
Yeah, it was incredibly
difficult.

395
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,880
It took us 12 months just to
draft the application.

396
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,520
So before we submitting the
application, it took 12 months,

397
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,960
and that was purely just just
learning.

398
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,520
The regulation itself is this
huge document.

399
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,040
You've got to understand each
individual section within that

400
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,200
document.
And then there's a lot of Gray

401
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,600
areas, a lot of things you just
have to figure out in your own.

402
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,880
We would draft huge amounts of
work and like submit them to our

403
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,880
solicitors who would then say to
us, guys, this is crap, you need

404
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,560
to start it all over again.
There needs to be way more

405
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,840
detail.
So this constant back and forth

406
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,880
of us thinking, well, we've done
a great job here and then being

407
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,840
taken back to earth, no, this is
good enough.

408
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,040
So yeah, 12 months of back and
forth.

409
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:59,680
And then we submitted in
December 2023 and we got

410
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,000
authorized in August 2024.
So yeah, there's an 8 bunch of

411
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
back and forth that the search
Brian Kaft, we submitted.

412
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,200
So yeah, just incredibly long
process.

413
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,240
The closer you get to the
authorization date, the more

414
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,800
difficult and complicated it
becomes, and the more stressful

415
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,000
it becomes.
I think it's worth noting as

416
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,880
well that 12 month application
phase, the level of detail in

417
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,760
the application you have to put
in text.

418
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,160
Like every single thing that is
on your platform, like every

419
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:27,600
button.
What does it do?

420
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,360
What policies are in place?
Where do the customers find the

421
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,000
terms and conditions?
What's in those terms and

422
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,520
conditions?
Every single piece of every

423
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,480
single journey needs to be
documented in text.

424
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,000
We are two young founders who
haven't necessarily built all of

425
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,040
it yet, right?
So some of it is kind of future

426
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,320
States and you're kind of going,
well, we need to build this now

427
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,120
as we go.
We need to have payment service

428
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,640
providers plugged into the
technology to manage the payment

429
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,280
flows and the KYC element and
the CDD element of the platform.

430
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,680
We need to have all of this
technology that we're not

431
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,680
necessarily going to build
ourselves because we're not a

432
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,760
payment service provider when we
don't have an EMI license or

433
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,680
whatever it might be.
So we also have to kind of

434
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,960
wrangle those relationships and
get them place for the regulator

435
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,360
as we're building.
So it's building the plane as

436
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,360
you're flying or whatever that
saying is.

437
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,880
That was kind of a lot of the
time that went into that first

438
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,160
year and we had some major
issues with building the payment

439
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,960
infrastructure into the platform
and setbacks on that as well

440
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,800
that kind of pushed things out
with that.

441
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,600
So that was it, a testing year I
would say is.

442
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,680
Yeah, it's a difficult way to do
it.

443
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,240
Did you guys, while you're going
through this whole 2 year

444
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:45,320
struggle to get the regulatory
licensing done, did you have an

445
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,720
engagement process with a
market?

446
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:52,480
You're building partnerships
with VCs in order to get access

447
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,040
to deal flow.
You have relationships with

448
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,400
founders historically or those
that you've met along the way

449
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:59,520
that you've stayed in touch
with.

450
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,240
And then you have this user base
that, yeah, out there from a

451
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,320
market perspective, it totally
feels like they're there, right,

452
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,120
because of this new generation
of investor mindset.

453
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,800
But how did you kind of bring
all those pieces together while

454
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,480
doing the regulatory side to
make sure that when you did get

455
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,160
the seal of approval that you
were ready to go?

456
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,360
It was incredibly challenging
and I wouldn't say we brought

457
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:28,440
them all together necessarily.
We met lots and lots of VCs

458
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,080
throughout the process just
building relationships, coffees,

459
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,240
video calls, initial pipeline
into the first kind of

460
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,360
opportunities that we were
putting onto the platform.

461
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,560
But we also started a kind of
weekly newsletter that was

462
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,680
geared towards our ICP, our
ideal customer profile and this

463
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,320
have called the old
sophisticated investor.

464
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,680
And we would say that a weekly
just talking about private

465
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,320
markets is really about
educating people and we grew

466
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,480
that to range 1200 people.
That was our initial cohort of

467
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,200
customers.
She was just constantly

468
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,120
networking with VCs, going to
events, meeting for coffees,

469
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:00,000
while also trying to deliver
contents to our audience at the

470
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,640
same time that was going to
resonate with them.

471
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,680
And very few people have
exposure to the really inner

472
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,760
workings of venture capital.
We needed a route to give these

473
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,400
people education where they
could get comfortable with the

474
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,120
other class before actually just
diving straight in and making

475
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,160
their first investment.
And I think that year leading

476
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,760
into our launch was like really
beneficial for just helping

477
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,920
people holding their hand get
away familiar with venture

478
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,800
capital.
So by the time we launched, they

479
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,080
were ready to commit their
photos.

480
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,400
So I think that was really
beneficial.

481
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,440
It's a fantastically patient yet
determined way to do it.

482
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,000
You mentioned Scott, was it the
unsophisticated investor?

483
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,720
Was the name of the newsletter
you were doing the market now

484
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,080
and that you're serving, like
you've said, the tech savvy, the

485
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,800
digital native, but now
increasingly sophisticated and

486
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,240
probably sophisticated from
their technology demands rather

487
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,600
than being that far up the curve
with venture capital, which

488
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,480
would point to a level of
sophistication, right, Because

489
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,320
it is an opaque market.
It is a difficult to understand

490
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,880
market.
So you've got that

491
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,680
sophistication there in terms of
their tech demands and that from

492
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,840
UX perspective, Scott, you've
got some specific challenges

493
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,920
there to keep things clean and
simple.

494
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,440
Like I'm using a new CRM myself
called Folk and it is so clean

495
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,640
and it is so simple and it is
such a joy to use and it almost

496
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:25,240
becomes like habitual to use it.
And getting that type of UXUI

497
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,960
for people is a big lift.
How is this developed for you in

498
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040
terms of owning the product?
I think it's really important to

499
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,320
note when you're building in
consumer finance, there is no

500
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,280
such thing as an MVP.
You can't release this shitty

501
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,640
products for people that just
doesn't work and has bugs.

502
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,120
When it comes to consumers and
their financial, especially,

503
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,320
investing the product that they
use the first time has to be

504
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,240
incredibly simple, seamless,
slick, because that's what

505
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,320
they've come to expect from the
likes of Revelry to Gyro and

506
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,360
other public market platforms.
They work really well and the UI

507
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,320
and UX is just really well
thought out.

508
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,920
So if a customer comes to our
platform and has this bad

509
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,560
experience, they're going to
churn immediately.

510
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,400
They're not going to tell the
friends, they're going to just

511
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,400
forget about it.
So we've got a huge amount of

512
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,880
effort into our user experience
and just making sure that

513
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,280
simplicity was there from the
store.

514
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,520
It can be difficult because
there's a lot of things that are

515
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,440
actually going on under the hood
when it comes to investing in

516
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,520
private markets.
There is paid distributed shares

517
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:18,960
across all the different
customers.

518
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,280
How much allocation is
available?

519
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,680
Just tracking that along the
investment journey, when you

520
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,400
open up around, there's a lot of
stuff that's happening behind

521
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,920
the scenes and we have to manage
that without letting the

522
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,000
customers see just how
complicated things are on the

523
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,160
back end.
For them, it's just a matter of

524
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,320
a couple of clicks and they're
best in this company.

525
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,720
They can see it in their
portfolio and then we can show

526
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,080
them how it's tracking over
time.

527
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,360
Simplicity is absolutely a non
negotiable, sure.

528
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,840
It just has to be as simple as
possible.

529
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,000
Rob, did you just leave Scott to
that or were you out there

530
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,080
gathering input and ideas from
the market and kind of feeding

531
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,600
that back through?
Yeah, No, definitely the latter.

532
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,320
Like well, Scott definitely owns
the product and does all the

533
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,920
engineering and more commercial
where we come together and where

534
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,600
our roles blend.
I think a lot across the product

535
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,960
is kind of in the design phase
and how it should look and how

536
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,400
it should feel. 2 core values of
ours in the company that we try

537
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,280
and live by is simplicity and
trust.

538
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,240
And likes what Scott said about
consumer applications, they need

539
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,560
to be good from the jump because
it's all about building trust.

540
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,080
It's hard to build, it's easy to
lose.

541
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,440
And if someone comes onto your
platform and it's below

542
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,080
standards, below par, then that
trust can be gone and wiped and

543
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,920
never gotten back.
So we build with that in mind,

544
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,560
like, well, how can we build
trust with these users from the

545
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,000
second they get onto our
platform?

546
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,120
Something I think we've seen in
kind of more public market

547
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:42,760
investing platforms is, and
maybe it's because they've been

548
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,720
around for a lot longer, is a
lot of them have grown over

549
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:47,720
time.
Some of them are really

550
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,120
beautiful and great UX's, but
some of them have grown a little

551
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:53,440
bit like clunky and bloated.
I think that's fine because

552
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,320
people are familiar with public
markets and they're more used to

553
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,840
them and they're using them more
regularly.

554
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,240
But with something like
investing in venture, which is

555
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,560
can be brand new for a lot of
the people coming onto our

556
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,640
platform, it needs to be
incredibly simple.

557
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,960
So we kind of build with the
idea of like reduction, like,

558
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,680
hey, what can we take away here?
Like, how can we make this

559
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,240
cleaner and slicker and reduce
what's on the screen without

560
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:23,760
losing any of that sense of
robustness that the platform

561
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,240
should have and that should give
people trust?

562
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,240
I think as well it's not just a
product problem, it's a legal

563
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,800
problem too.
Like we've got to work with our

564
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,120
lawyers to make sure customers
don't have to sign E signature

565
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:36,080
documents through docu so on.
So it does all happen on

566
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,160
platform to check boxes.
So working with lawyers and

567
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,640
we've got to work with them to
make sure that we have the most

568
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,360
seamless experience possible on
the platform that is legally

569
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,320
compliant with what we want to
do is quite difficult sometimes

570
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:48,920
as well.
So not just an engineering

571
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,560
problem, it's also a legal
problem too.

572
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Oh yeah, definitely tons and
tons of stuff when you're taking

573
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,040
this first big, not first big
step.

574
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,960
You guys are well on the journey
now, but in putting that

575
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,560
regulatory umbrella over your
business.

576
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,680
Anytime yeah, as a two guys who
didn't come from the world as

577
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,920
that world as well, you're and
you're also kind of dumbfounded

578
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,040
along the way as well like how
why are you asking us to do it

579
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,360
like this and makes no sense.
Yeah, getting over that could be

580
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,240
frustrating.
I hear that looking at Shuttle

581
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,120
as essentially Co investing
alongside VCs in early stage

582
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,000
startup deals, right, or in in
later stage startup deals as

583
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,680
well that what you're
essentially doing is bridging

584
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,240
retail capital with
institutional level deal flow.

585
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,320
I've talked to people about you
in the past week or so in

586
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,640
prepping for this interview and
saying, listen, it's like on

587
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,000
your website taking the private
out of private wealth And there

588
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,160
is a certain type of investor.
When you start talking to you

589
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,560
and you've identified this type
of investor with who you're

590
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,360
building for the digitally
native investor that has a bit

591
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,880
more expectation and a bit more
ability to wear some risk, that

592
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,280
is compelling.
And that when you tell that

593
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,600
story around, Rob, how you got
interested in this space through

594
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,720
working with early stage
founders from a commercial

595
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,720
perspective, and Scott, how you
did as well from the product

596
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,840
side.
All of that makes sense when you

597
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,840
bring it together with this
model of connecting the dots

598
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,480
between VC deal flow as well as
retail investors.

599
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,680
What makes the model work and
how do you scale it without

600
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,800
really diluting the quality of
this bridge that you've built

601
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,800
between these two worlds?
What makes the work is probably

602
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,360
alignment.
We're not trying to reinvent

603
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,600
investing.
We're plugging into kind of what

604
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,440
already works and the funds that
we're Co investing with are

605
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,080
their experienced, are vetted
there.

606
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,360
This is what they do and they
are invested in companies that

607
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,320
people are familiar with and
many others that they might not

608
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,840
be.
And I think that means that the

609
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,360
retail investors that are coming
on to shuttle, they're not

610
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,240
guessing, they're riding
alongside the same professionals

611
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,080
who are backing these great
companies, the next generation

612
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,600
of great innovative companies
and being able to play their

613
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,080
part and have skin in the game
as well.

614
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,440
So I think that's what makes it
work, why people have that

615
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,520
interest.
And I think that is maintained

616
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,360
just through selection, right?
It's about making sure we're

617
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,520
aligned and with the right PC
funds, with the right companies

618
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,120
for our community.
It's not just about plugging any

619
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,800
deal into the platform.
We work on quality over quantity

620
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,720
and and not volume.
And then I think how do you

621
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,880
scale that?
I think it goes back to like the

622
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,800
technology and the trust piece,
like we mentioned, like it's, we

623
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,680
automate all of the admin and
compliance that that helps make

624
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,360
things seamless, right?
It's that seamlessness, it's

625
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:51,360
that smoothness, taking all of
that heavy jargon failed process

626
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,320
out of the picture and main and
we keep, if we keep aligned to

627
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,240
that goal, I think is how we can
keep pushing this along and the

628
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,200
relationships that we're
building will continue to grow.

629
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,480
We'll build more relationships
with more partners and which

630
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,600
will increase the scale of the
opportunities on platform, which

631
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,400
will ultimately pull more people
in.

632
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,160
I think that's really where we
go with this.

633
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,760
It's staying true to kind of how
what thinking was from the

634
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,600
start, aligning with the right
people, keeping it simple,

635
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,040
building that trust in the
market.

636
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,040
I think if we can stick to those
things, that's how we can

637
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,120
maintain kind of the quality
going forward.

638
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:31,280
Is there a platformification
really of the VC relationships

639
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,640
and the vetting of those VCs
that you guys can undertake?

640
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,880
There are all different types of
AI tools that are looking at

641
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,920
founders and looking at startups
and looking deep into LinkedIn,

642
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,960
looking to see if someone had
just recently flipped their

643
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,080
profile on LinkedIn to stealth,
right?

644
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,880
And that has a particular
background that would suggest

645
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,720
that they're going to be a very
good startup founder.

646
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,360
And then they start getting an
inbound flow from high profile

647
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,000
VCs to say, hey, I see that
you're starting something.

648
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,880
Would you like to talk about how
you're going to fund the

649
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,520
business, right?
And that's from the founder

650
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,920
perspective, but there's tons of
signals out there on the VC side

651
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,280
on are they deploying capital
now?

652
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,000
When was their last fund?
What is the check size that they

653
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,720
write?
What are the themes that they're

654
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,840
investing in?
What are the stages that they're

655
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,440
investing in?
What do the partners actually

656
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,800
like?
What do the partners eat for

657
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,040
breakfast?
OK.

658
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,360
And there's all these data
points out there.

659
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Are you guys building something
that can give you that signal

660
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:41,720
and to point out perhaps good
quality VCs to pursue some deal

661
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,000
flow from to put in front of
your retail investors?

662
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,280
Yeah.
And we're definitely working on

663
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400
some internal tools, experiment
with AI and how we can best

664
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,400
leverage it.
But I think there's a lot of

665
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,480
people already doing that and
solving that problem really

666
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,360
well.
What I think with those with the

667
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,600
opportunity and how we scale
this, because I think retail

668
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,680
investors are especially kind of
the mass affluent segment is

669
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,680
really going to exponentially
grow in terms of adoption of

670
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,679
alternative investments.
And there's not really anybody

671
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,280
at the moment who's building the
infrastructure, the technology

672
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,880
that's going to be able to pool
all those people together and

673
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,400
have them invest in private
market asset classes.

674
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,600
So if you think about a VC fund
or a solo GP, they might be

675
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,679
small, might have a 20 million
fund or a 10 million fund and

676
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:28,800
they would like to raise from
1000 people who are retail

677
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,840
investors.
For them to do that is a

678
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,239
possible right now they just
there's no way you could handle

679
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,600
all that administrative burden
from accepting all those

680
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,560
investors into your fund.
So we think the big opportunity

681
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,159
for us is creating technology
like we already have done to a

682
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,800
degree that makes it just
ridiculously simple for those

683
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,880
folks to accept that retail
capital through our own

684
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,760
infrastructure and we'll handle
all the messiness and they just

685
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,880
have to accept the capital.
So I think that's the big

686
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,000
opportunity for us is being able
to build the infrastructure that

687
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,000
enables us to pull together
thousands of thousands of

688
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,960
hundreds of thousands of people
and unlock that LP Channel 4

689
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,440
phones could be venture capital,
private equity, real estate,

690
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,200
private credit.
That's where we think the

691
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,480
opportunity is really exposing
and these retail investors to

692
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,560
funds in a way that's just
seamless for the funds.

693
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,120
I think we're all like we're
already seeing fund managers who

694
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,000
kind of forward thinking fund
managers who want to engage a

695
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,960
broader audience, not
necessarily just for capital,

696
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,720
but for community and inciting
distribution.

697
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,720
And while they're still going to
raise capital from ultra high

698
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,160
net worths LP's or institutional
LP's, I think there's a lot of

699
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,960
value in the retail channel as a
new LP channel.

700
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,560
Institutional PS move slowly.
Due diligence can be drawn out,

701
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,720
investment committees as it can
be quite rigid and they can

702
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,280
demand preferential terms and
side letters and all this type

703
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,680
of stuff.
And asset managers will benefit

704
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,480
from kind of faster, more
efficient ways to raise capital

705
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,200
that's not necessarily
constrained by the red tape that

706
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,920
can't surround maybe individual
in ultra high network

707
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,800
individuals or institutions and
then we can provide that with

708
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,120
the infrastructure that we're
building.

709
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,760
You can and because it's an area
that VC is just an asset

710
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,840
managers in general just kind of
stay away from and the back

711
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,440
office side of it's a nightmare
when you're dealing with retail

712
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,920
investors.
If you can be that, I don't want

713
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,920
to say a foot on each side of
the river, but that and I don't

714
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,920
want to call you a marketplace
either, but you have this dual

715
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,840
proposition.
You have a proposition to retail

716
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,960
investors, but you also have a
proposition to alternative

717
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,880
managers, alternative asset
managers, VC's, private equity,

718
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,560
those that focus on these asset
classes that you think are going

719
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,120
to be attractive to your base of
retail investors.

720
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:47,440
They don't want to go there, but
you provide that coverage for

721
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,120
them.
Exactly, we have the regulation,

722
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,320
we build the infrastructure and
when pooled and structured

723
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,640
correctly, retail capital offers
speed and efficiency and

724
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,720
flexibility that institutions
can't match.

725
00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:03,400
We can help battle managers
close faster without the typical

726
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,680
investment committees and rigid
mandates and is, well, when Paul

727
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,600
Jahana worked in investor
commits to a fund, obviously

728
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,680
that's not all committed
upfront, right?

729
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,280
There is capital calls that
happen over the first few years

730
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,680
that they're deploying retail
investors are going to be

731
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,000
deploying smaller amounts.
And so that capital can all be

732
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,640
called upfront.
That's coming from the retail

733
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,440
channel as opposed to being
called over the course of

734
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,720
several years.
And there's a massive benefit to

735
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,000
that for asset managers.
There's interest that can be

736
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,640
earned on that capital on both
sides of the party for

737
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,960
argument's sake that it speeds
things up and makes things less

738
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,960
of an administrative burden for
the asset manager as well.

739
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,160
So there's a lot of benefits
there to the retail channel

740
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,760
being able to access these after
classes as an LP and we can

741
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,680
provide infrastructure that
makes that simple.

742
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,920
And looking across Europe and
thinking about some of the macro

743
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,280
themes here that you can have a
pretty good handle from where

744
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,560
you guys are sitting on the
demographic that is Ireland.

745
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,320
Although there's a bunch of
different mindsets here, a bunch

746
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,520
of different pockets of ideas
about how people invest.

747
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,320
When you look across to the UK,
you kind of can find some

748
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,120
similar mindsets and similar
attitudes towards investing and

749
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,440
there's a nice, a nice bridge
there to pursue.

750
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,840
But then when you get across to
Europe, there's all different

751
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,840
types of mindsets around this,
given that the diversity of the

752
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,640
European population across
different borders.

753
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,000
So is UK and then to Europe the
next market?

754
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,480
Are you looking at US?
What do you think about as being

755
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,400
the right approach?
We're obviously regulated to

756
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,800
operate across Europe, so we'll
definitely be targeting kind of

757
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,560
tech hubs across Europe shortly.
I think the mindset is very

758
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,440
similar.
Like if you find big VC backed

759
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,280
tech companies, later stage
growth companies, the people

760
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,560
working in those companies have
a similar mindset like Rob

761
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,560
alluded to earlier, they're
exposed to this or they kind of

762
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,320
know what they're getting into.
So yeah, we will be targeting

763
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,640
tech hubs across Europe and the
UK is definitely a next step for

764
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,720
us.
We're already in the process of

765
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,480
drafting open reps the
application and hopefully we'll

766
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,000
I've got submitted in the near
future and be authorized to

767
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,600
operate there by the end of this
year.

768
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,640
So yeah, UK is definitely the
big next step and US for sure.

769
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,240
Eventually we want to move it to
the US too.

770
00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:18,320
There's a few players over
there.

771
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,120
The market is definitely more
mature there.

772
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,040
So this problem is being solved
to a degree, but it's still

773
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,400
mostly for accredited investors
with a net worth of over

774
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,400
1,000,000.
It's a different set of

775
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,720
regulatory rules.
I'm just on that from a macro

776
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:33,080
perspective to macro element
that we feel in, in Ireland,

777
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,080
it's never been harder to buy a
house, cost of living, job

778
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,160
security is on the floor.
I think people recognize that

779
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,800
pensions are shaky and that'll
work hard and have a pension and

780
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,280
that will do is people across
Europe have realized that's no

781
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,680
longer the case.
And I think those macro elements

782
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,040
are felt not just in Ireland,
but across many parts of Europe.

783
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,440
And I think that generation of
investors that we're going after

784
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,440
I think feels that and has
recognized and like you

785
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,360
mentioned earlier is more
sophisticated and educated than

786
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,200
ever when it comes to their
finances.

787
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,320
I think that cohort of people
exist across Ireland, across the

788
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,440
UK and across Europe, so we can
find those people.

789
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,280
You're right, and it's always
been, you've got me excited

790
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,760
about this now.
There's always been this stigma

791
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,400
about the traditional
conservative European private

792
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,960
equity VC mindset.
If someone says they're a

793
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:33,360
precede investor in Europe, they
actually mean their seed, right?

794
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,080
Whereas in the US, they say
their precede, they really are

795
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,920
precede, right?
Or maybe they do mostly precede

796
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,400
in a bit of seed.
I could see how Shuttle could be

797
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:48,720
the vehicle to lift kind of the
opportunity there across Europe

798
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,280
to find these pockets of
investors, retail investors

799
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,640
across tech hubs.
And also when the tech hubs are

800
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,760
the VCs, right?
When you look in Berlin, Paris,

801
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,800
Amsterdam, you name it, and kind
of mobilizing those communities,

802
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,320
I can really see this.
That's just my advice, but I'm

803
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,200
sure you guys are already
thinking that direction in terms

804
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,280
of advice.
What is the best startup advice

805
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,600
you've ever received?
Does a person we've worked with

806
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,440
for a long time got called Amy
Leonard?

807
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:25,040
He actually runs Baseline, the
workspace on Thomas St. now with

808
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:26,320
Fiona.
Oh yeah.

809
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,360
Great people, great people.
So we sat down with him one time

810
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,760
in the CHQ building.
And up until that point we

811
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,360
gotten so much advice from other
people just telling us, hey, we

812
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,320
should do things and what we
should build and so on and so

813
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,920
forth.
But the first time we sat down

814
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,040
with them, and I think the first
thing he said to us was, I just

815
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,240
want to preface this with I
don't know your business.

816
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:47,760
You guys know your business
better than me.

817
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,160
Don't listen to my advice.
Be very careful with the advice

818
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,520
you do listen to.
And that kind of reshaped how I

819
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,640
thought about listening to
people's advice from that point

820
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,560
on.
He went on to absolutely slate

821
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,280
what we've been doing.
I never walk away from that

822
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,280
meeting.
They think, oh, God, that was

823
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,640
brutal.
Maybe that goes a bit of an

824
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,200
assault.
But literally an hour later, I

825
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,400
was thinking way.
That was tough advice, but it

826
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,200
actually made me really deeply
think about what we're doing and

827
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,480
are we doing the right thing?
And so, yeah, that was some of

828
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,240
the best advice I've gotten.
OK.

829
00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:21,320
Outside of shuttle, Rob,
anything that you think is an

830
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,600
exciting trend in private
markets right now that you're

831
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,720
intrigued by?
I think the rise of secondary

832
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:31,160
markets is quite interesting
because we're seeing way less

833
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,400
companies IPOI think there's
probably we're down nearly 50%

834
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,680
publicly listed companies over
the lot in the last 30 years.

835
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,240
I think it went from 8000.
I think it's like 4 or less than

836
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:44,880
4 1/2 thousand now companies
aren't IP owing, they're staying

837
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,360
prime for much longer.
A lot of the value is being

838
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,800
soaked off while they're
private.

839
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,600
I think Google like IPO would a
market capital like 600 million

840
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,760
or something like that and
Stripe it like a $90 billion

841
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:01,400
company and still private.
So a lot of that value is being

842
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,160
soaked up while they're still
private.

843
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:08,080
So the rise of platforms that
are allowing people to access

844
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,840
secondary share sales is really
interesting.

845
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,600
And people to be able to still
get access to these really

846
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,040
interesting valuable companies
before they IPOI think that's

847
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:22,080
really cool like equities and
over in the US as a few others

848
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,800
Forge don't see as much of it in
Europe.

849
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,160
Hopefully that will change and
maybe something we'll look at

850
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,280
too, but I think that's really
interesting.

851
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,720
Yeah, it absolutely is.
But is there anything that you

852
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:36,600
think people are listeners
should know about Shuttle that

853
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,920
we haven't talked about yet?
What's important to note is

854
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,400
we're not venture capitalists.
We're not investors.

855
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:49,360
We're two guys who were
investing in public facing

856
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,000
stuff, just buying some stocks
and phones and cryptocurrency

857
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,000
who wanted access to better
opportunities be for the same

858
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,040
reason other people do.
They want to create financial

859
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,600
stability.
They want to create some kind of

860
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,760
financial freedom at some point
in the future, whatever that

861
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,920
looks like for them.
That's how we're approaching

862
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,440
this.
We're building the tool that we

863
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,520
wish we had back then.
Because of that, our customers

864
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,960
should be able to relate to us a
lot more.

865
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,560
And maybe they think you see
someone building a a fintech

866
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,280
platform or in a wealth tech
platform and think they might be

867
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,640
to finance Bros who come from
that background when we're not.

868
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,200
We're ultimately our own
customer building the solution

869
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,520
that we wish we had.
That is strong founder market

870
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,240
fit, founder problem fit even
below that.

871
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,400
I love it.
We're going to round this one

872
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,640
out, guys, with the last
question that I ask everybody on

873
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,000
this podcast.
What is one thing that people

874
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,520
would not expect to know about
you?

875
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:49,080
Scott, we'll start with you.
I think there's sort of a joint

876
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,880
story here that's quite
interesting.

877
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,040
A bit of time that myself and
Rob were doing a road trip

878
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,080
through America.
We were traveling back from Las

879
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,560
Vegas, journey all the way to
Vancouver.

880
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,760
We got lost in the desert and we
ran out of money and shortly

881
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:10,080
began to run out of gas.
So we would go from gas station

882
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,240
to gas station.
We started off by selling our

883
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,120
friends goods to get some money
to pay for gas.

884
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,360
This is back when there's no
such thing as Google Maps.

885
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Like we just, we had a map and
we had to figure out where to

886
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,360
go.
So yeah, we started selling our

887
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,920
friends goods to to buy
ourselves gas and these gas

888
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,520
stations as we went through
America.

889
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,080
And eventually we just had to
start begging people for money

890
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,320
to get us home.
Very scary journey.

891
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,680
We would be going through the
middle of nowhere in America.

892
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,880
Bullet holes in every side we
went past.

893
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,240
But we eventually made it all
the way home after I think it

894
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:42,680
was over 20 hours of trying to
get from Las Vegas to to

895
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,400
Vancouver.
It was a pretty funny journey

896
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,680
and a pretty a few post calls
along the way.

897
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,680
Wow.
It was pretty wild.

898
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,920
We were 19, we didn't have
iPhones, we had an old Motorola

899
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:58,160
flip phone and a paper map, and
we left Vegas.

900
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,640
I had to get back to Vancouver
because my flight was 24 hours

901
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,760
away from Vancouver back to
Ireland after a summer in

902
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,160
Vancouver.
I remember falling asleep

903
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,120
leaving Vegas and waking up in
the middle of the desert because

904
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,160
our friend had just picked the
road that looked like the

905
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,360
shortest route.
And yeah, it led to us running

906
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,720
out of everything and selling
our stuff and begging for our

907
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:21,680
way home.
So maybe that was our first

908
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,160
testing, our first training when
it came to fundraising and

909
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,320
begging people for money to get
us out.

910
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,240
No, that works, and I think we
got to get in touch with Bradley

911
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:35,320
Cooper and Zach Galifianakis to
see if they want to star in this

912
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,280
as a sequel, another sequel to
the Hangover series.

913
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,960
One of my favorite lines is
like, they end up at a hospital

914
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,680
looking for somebody and they
asked the doctor if they know

915
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,560
where something is, where a
certain property is, and he says

916
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,560
yeah, it's on the corner of get
a map and I don't give a fuck.

917
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,080
Yeah, it's it was hangover.
Ask for sure.

918
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,560
Wow, that's awesome.
Well, listen guys, thank you so

919
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,240
much for coming out to the show
to tell me the shuttle story and

920
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:05,840
to tell our listeners the
shuttle story.

921
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,880
What's the best way for people
to get in touch with you?

922
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,160
Can't just reach out?
We're very accessible.

923
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:14,080
Reach out to some LinkedIn.
You can find our details on our

924
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,160
LinkedIn profile as well. e-mail
us LinkedIn messages, reach out

925
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,240
to us on social.
Whatever works, we're always

926
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:22,440
happy to help and chat with
anyone who's interested.

927
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,760
Wonderful.
Thank you guys.

928
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,440
Thank you, Pete.
Thanks, Pete.

929
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:33,160
Bye bye.
That does it for this week,

930
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,440
folks, and thanks to Scott
Ashmore and Rob Halligan for

931
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,480
opening up their mind to help us
figure out why they do what they

932
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,000
do.
If you like what you heard,

933
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,640
please leave us a rating and a
review on Spotify, Apple, or on

934
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,880
Money Never sleeps dot IE slash
rate.

935
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,480
Thanks to Conan Brophy from
Create Sound for mixing and

936
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,240
editing this episode.
Conan is an excellent media man

937
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:50,600
to work with on your own
podcast.

938
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,520
As for me, I'm an early stage
startup investor in the next

939
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,800
version of the Internet and I
lead the Techstars Web 3

940
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,520
accelerator.
There are plenty of links in the

941
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,640
show notes on moneyneversleeps
dot IE on how to get in touch

942
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,400
with us, so don't hesitate to
reach out.

943
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,880
Finally, till next time, thanks
for listening.

944
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,160
See you money.
Never sleeps well.