124: Money Talks #29 | Clubhouse | Jay Z, Jack Dorsey and Bitcoin | Fintech SPACs and Digital Assets

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend and
this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, have the

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crossover of startups and a
prize Finance technology and

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Life as We Know It This episode
of money never sleeps is

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sponsored by p80 fintech the
training partner.

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The team mystifies fintech and
digital Finance for financial

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services, professionals own
Fitzgerald and I are back with

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another money talk segment.
This week, we talk through my

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first experience.
On clubhouse, Jay-Z and Jack

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Dorsey, partnering on bitcoin
for Africa and India, fintech

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valuations and spax cities, fat
finger and a bit more on this

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week's episode of money.
Never sleeps.

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Hey Owen, how you doing?
Yeah, pretty good.

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Pretty good busy week, push.
Good busy.

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Not that crap busy.
And I like this by jobs and

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Bodywork busy.
Yeah, yeah, it could go 24/7.

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Couldn't it?
Absolutely.

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Yeah.
I was up till 1:00 last night

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just break in the back of an
investment committee.

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Document really interesting
project which is nice.

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But just like, you know, if you
know yourself, you need to time

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and space with a bit of
quietness to actually write some

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of these things to articulate to
kind of story and what the

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company is doing, its very early
stage so it needs a good kind of

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narrative around it.
So I just I needed the time and

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hours to put into a last night
to get the yeah, it is all about

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the story.
Yeah.

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Everything's got to have a
beginning middle and end.

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Shout out to Ali.
Judge who got me into

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podcasting, two and a half years
ago.

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And she's three and a half years
ago, now, nearly and that did

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one with him recently.
And he just reminded me, this is

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a story, right?
It's got to have a beginning

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middle and end.
And if you can stick to that

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discipline with everything you
do, it's going to make your

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stuff more interesting, right?
Yeah and I find you look in

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terms of the stuff I'm doing I
get to pitch it to a committee

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so So the story bit, The
Narrative bit, I'm great at, but

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trying to put that in a 30 page
document I can do two-minute

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elevator pitch, but trying to
Rice that story out in a 30

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page, document is more of a
challenge.

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Yeah, it is.
It is, I was looking tonight at

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two things before we started
recording at 9:09 p.m. here the

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seat, fine evening, February
17th.

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And it was a start-up deck.
That was a wonderful 12.

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Pages long may be no smaller
than 20 point.

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I want only a few words on each
page, it stuck with me.

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I could probably tell that story
and about 10 minutes later, I'm

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looking at a deck from a big
financial institution,

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describing their business in 52
slides in very small, right?

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Yeah, on the topic of brevity,
let's get to it.

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We've got a few stories to cover
tonight.

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Few things that we found over
the last couple of days that we

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thought were interesting
follow-ups from other things.

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We've done before that, we
talked about brand new topics

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things that are happening out
there.

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The first one that I I wanted to
look at was an article from

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sifted that was just today.
That is titled.

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Why can't Europe build a
clubhouse.

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So Clubhouse has been making the
rounds all over the media for

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the last month or so.
It is a social media app to put

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it very high level to me.
It kind of feels like a informal

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conference.
Call / live podcast a bit, okay?

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And we'll get a bit more into
that.

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But the sifted piece was
basically saying, why can't this

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happen in Europe?
Why does all this stuff need to

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happen in Silicon Valley, in the
three key reasons that they said

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were one.
It's a fragmented market and I

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talked about this a little bit
as well or hate it.

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When I say, I talked about this,
it's just gonna say it, there's

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something about Europe, which is
because there's 27 States in

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Europe, 27 countries, you know,
sovereign states.

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There are I don't know how many
languages, at least a few more

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than that, right?
And it's really hard to connect

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the dots with b2c propositions.
When you have to translate to

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whole bunch of different
languages and with different

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cultures and different ways of
doing things, right?

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So that was reason, one reason
to European investors are not as

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familiar at building and scaling
social media platforms, which is

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a fair point.
You know, I think Tick-Tock is

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probably the only one that is
scaled outside of the US.

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Third point, which I thought was
a little bit funny which was

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perhaps Europe is to snobbish.
Right.

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And that we couldn't be bothered
with such frivolous things as

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helping people to connect early
serious.

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Yes.
Looking at arts in the Louvre,

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you know.
So those were the three things

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that were pointed out.
Have you put much thought into

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this?
Yeah, look at smoke.

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I think that they're Fair
points.

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Like, we look at you or up and I
talk to my clients and working

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with him, we say, look at the
common market similar

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regulation, it should make it
Market entry easy in some ways,

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absolutely, but clearly in other
ways we are talking about 27,

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different state.
It's different language

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requirements, at the very least,
different cultural requirements

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like.
So it is a challenge and then to

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the clubhouse example, they were
able to raise what 10 million

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from Andreessen Horowitz without
anything.

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Like, literally not intuitive
part of the first kind of very

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early version of it, but they
raised 10 million 100 million

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valuation or something.
I think what a numbers.

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So, and they've had the benefit
and of the increase in heart

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heavily, promoting them and
pushing them.

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They were some of the earliest
users on it, so they brought

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users to the platform.
You don't get that.

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Going to scale our that kind of
reputation almost behind some of

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the European VCS, that you would
have with the likes of Anna

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driessen, or Sequoia supervised,
summons super feces, they're

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celebrities almost, you know,
and in name.

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So you don't get that same kind
of following behind it either.

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So I think there's that element
to it and I don't know what

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probably disregard the snobbish
bit.

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I think the other the other two
are ya know for?

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Yeah.
I think so.

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I think so what's their business
model.

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How are they making money?
Add we sell ads.

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Say something like.
Yeah.

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It's going down my favorite, a
new term which is a recurring

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Revenue.
It'll be a subscription model I

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believe is, you know, subscribe
for a certain amount access

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because what smart about it is
similar to Twitter is that like,

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you can join a club house which
I think they had Elon Musk and

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Kanye in a conversation
recently, you know so at a

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certain point that content is
going to go behind an equivalent

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of a pay wall and you're going
to have to pay for access to the

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more high-profile.
Yeah, that makes guess that

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makes us.
I mean sifted themselves have

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already started doing that just
this week.

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Started going into articles and
saying up, this is pay wall.

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So get people hooked and then
Unleash the Beast of honey and

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make them pay first time
Clubhouse user today.

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Rudy for lot, from voice of
fintech who we had on way back

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episode, 70, something shout out
to Rudy, he invited me into his

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room today, that he was doing
future Tech weekly and I

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actually got an invite from
Ahmed.

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El Barky, who set up a Business
in Dublin here, called we code

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for you.
So shout out to Ahmed, he's a

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good guy and he was in the not
even accelerator not last year

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the year before.
Okay, cool.

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So I'm in iPhone only.
You got to set up your profile.

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Start following a few people,
pick out a few topics, whatever.

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Right.
So Rudy kindly invited me into

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his, he had a couple of people
on that.

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We're talking about a few
different fintech topics.

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That's Rudy's thing is voice of
fintech and he invited me into

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the audience.
Then he kind of said, Pete,

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listen, I know I didn't tell In
advance about what some of these

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questions may be.
But, do you want to answer a

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couple of questions?
I said?

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Yeah, sure, absolutely.
So, for the first half hour that

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I was on, it was like listening
to a live podcast, right?

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I'm in the room there's probably
10 12 15 other people in the

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room and there's Rudy and then
two others that he had invited

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in his speakers.
And then he said, Pete do you

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want to come in and join?
And he asked me a couple of

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questions on a B2B versus b2c
fintech as well as we got into a

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little bit of ESG.
G Waters, I've been working on

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that recently with a couple of
folks so interesting could have

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been recorded and perhaps
publishes a podcast, I think so,

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right?
So did I have time to do that

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today?
It was 5:00.

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It was an hour before dinner.
I figured what the hell I might

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as well just do it and I'm glad
I did.

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So I'm going to be looking to do
a bit more of that just because

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it was interesting thinking on
your feet and hearing some

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topics that just in the normal
course your day which is almost

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like I equated it to Flipping
through the channels 15 20 years

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ago and finding Bull Durham on
TV, right?

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You'd stop and you watch, you
had no idea that you'd be

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watching Bull Durham now except
for this this is you know a

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movie.
You haven't seen before a

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conversation, you have it
participated in before so I

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thought it was it was pretty
interesting and I'd look to keep

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using it right?
Yeah.

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Okay.
Cool.

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Because I mean it sounds like a
really strong on the community

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side and it's a great way to
kind of build communities around

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things.
Yeah.

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But again does See limitations
being iPhone only, so I wouldn't

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be able to use them.
I think that's just to get

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started, it's just get started.
But I mean just some of the

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things that came up that we're
talking about was Elon Musk with

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Tesla obviously and their big
investment in Bitcoin.

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The last couple of weeks.
We'll talk about that in a bit

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and one of the speaker's was
saying that does Bitcoins

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electricity usage, make it anti
ESG, right, environmental social

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and governance, right?
And that would be using so much

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electricity.
Your carbon footprint of Bitcoin

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is Because of the electricity
for mining.

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So does that then kick Tesla out
of ESG portfolio, right?

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Which would be a pretty big deal
because he has few metrics are

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pretty important to those.
Portfolio managers that are

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managing ESG portfolios.
Yeah.

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Right.
I just thought that was that

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there was some logic to it.
Absolutely.

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But I was thinking, what about
the electricity usage of AWS,

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right?
Are you going to kick Amazon out

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of ESG portfolios?
Now, I don't know if Amazon is

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in ES3 portfolios, but But it's
a much, much bigger topic, just

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in a nutshell.
Yes, G data that you measure to

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determine the ESG ratings of a
company are basically all the

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non-financial data of a company.
So all the financial data

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generate ends up with the
financial statements.

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All the non-financial data well,
that is now kind of falling into

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a bucket called ESG, right?
Which is much bigger than what

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people originally had envisage
around measuring, the

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environmental impact of a
company, the social impact of

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the company and how well, it's
governed, right?

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Which is a big thing.
The FTS into digital

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Collectibles, came up and FTS.
Non fungible tokens is a big,

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big, big topic, you know, to be
talking about that with a couple

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of folks more recently, I think
we're going to get into that

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future episodes.
We got someone lined up to come,

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talk to us about digital art.
Yeah, definitely, which we got

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going on, so we'll save that one
for when we get into that

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conversation because it's a bit
lengthy to get into that.

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So if these thoughts are
germinating in my mind because

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of that clubhouse tonight, and
I'm going to be able to pursue a

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few threads because of that and
probably provide some better

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guidance to the startups that I
work with.

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Because those thoughts
determinate.

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Well, that was Clubhouse.
Great.

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If that was just a random
Wednesday, I'll go with it.

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But I think actually in the
absence of conferences and

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00:11:04,008 --> 00:11:06,000
events and stuff.
I'm thinking back to money, 20,

227
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,700
22 years ago and amount of like
side conversations at events and

228
00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:12,300
panel conversations where you
got were really interesting

229
00:11:12,300 --> 00:11:13,900
discussions going on.
Like those things aren't

230
00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:15,800
Happening.
Now, does limited number of

231
00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,900
virtual events where by by the
sounds of It was almost like

232
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:21,900
being at a live event, was it?
Absolutely was in the fact that

233
00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:23,500
was audio.
Only makes it much more

234
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:24,900
manageable, right?
Yeah.

235
00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:27,200
It's phone only, you know,
you're going to have better

236
00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,500
quality signal on your phone.
When you got Wi-Fi and you got

237
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,100
mobile, even gonna host doing
jobs the same way.

238
00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:35,500
I consume podcast at the moment,
when I went for a walk or doing

239
00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,400
things while the kids are
around, like it's ideal for

240
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,300
that.
So, clearly do something serious

241
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:42,300
to or should I look forward to
getting my own invited some

242
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:42,800
point?
Yeah.

243
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,900
But you don't have an iPhone.
No, I don't know.

244
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,200
I sent, I sent my last invite to
bury Breton.

245
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,800
Shout out to bury.
Yeah, I accidentally sent one to

246
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,400
Dave Cunningham, but he was
already in, so, you know, Dave

247
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,100
Cunningham from City to do it,
guys.

248
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,300
Shout out to Dave to, I know
he's a listener anywho on to the

249
00:11:57,300 --> 00:12:01,500
next story.
This one is a fun, one Jay-Z and

250
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:03,800
Jack dorsey's.
Bitcoin fund for Africa and

251
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,800
India.
So this was shared by Dan runty

252
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,000
in his tropical newsletter,
which is the business of hip-hop

253
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,400
isn't called the cops.
Probably read it every week but

254
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,400
I picked up on it this week and
saw that.

255
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,200
So this is basically Jay-Z and
Dorsey getting together and

256
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,000
saying listen we are starting up
this Bitcoin trust and putting

257
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,900
500 Bitcoin into it between the
two of them which is currently

258
00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:28,400
worth twenty three point six
million.

259
00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:32,800
This was in TechCrunch, I think
it was just on the 12th of

260
00:12:32,808 --> 00:12:36,100
February so it's an endowment
called the be trust with Abby

261
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:39,300
being the Bitcoin sign and to
quote them, the fun will be set

262
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:43,700
up as a blind irrevocable.
Trust Dorsey said adding that

263
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:46,000
the duo won't be giving away any
direction to the team.

264
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,500
They are looking to hire three
board members so Guess who

265
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:54,100
applied yours, truly do better
basis of a a chair roll and

266
00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:56,500
independent directorship that I
have with a leading

267
00:12:56,500 --> 00:13:01,300
cryptocurrency service provider
as well as my board, roll with

268
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,900
pivot, and pivot are doing great
things in Africa.

269
00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:06,200
Bit are enabling migrants,
support their families back,

270
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,100
home, cheaper and safer.
Shout out to all the wall.

271
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,500
She's been on this podcast with
us in the past.

272
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,000
He's founder and CEO.
I'm on his board.

273
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,300
And they are really enabling
those that have left home from

274
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:18,500
the African continent.
And from other, It's around the

275
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:22,800
world to go live in economies
where there is more job

276
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,300
opportunity may make money and
send it back home.

277
00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:27,800
Pivot allows you to do that
through cash, right?

278
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,100
Where you can just send the cash
that you make back and pay your

279
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,800
mother's health care bill.
Get it to a bank account back

280
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,200
home wherever it needs to go and
do that.

281
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:38,100
Digitally?
Alright, so on the basis of

282
00:13:38,108 --> 00:13:40,700
those two things I said, hey,
I'm supremely qualified to be on

283
00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:42,200
the board of the Bitcoin
trading.

284
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,900
So we'll see what comes through
on that.

285
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:46,600
It was like a three-line job
application on a Google form,

286
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:47,700
right?
So I sent that out.

287
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,700
But I mean, just again that
merging of hip-hop and business,

288
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,600
right?
Yeah, with Jay-Z.

289
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:55,500
Yep.
And dorsey's.

290
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:58,200
Big enough lunch will be side.
He's very focused on Africa.

291
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,800
Like I said, I'm a big fan of
both of them so I only hope it

292
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,800
works.
Yeah, I mean there is a talk

293
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,800
right now that India is looking
again to ban Bitcoin perhaps but

294
00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:12,400
we'll see what comes of that but
I think the idea is that with

295
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,000
Bitcoin and particularly just
seeing Elon Musk and Tesla and

296
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,200
what they're doing recently and
that Looking at PayPal.

297
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:23,000
The idea is that, if you build
up an inventory of Bitcoin,

298
00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:26,100
right?
It becomes more of an asset that

299
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:30,200
you would use to do things with
rather than just holding it as a

300
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,500
treasury asset, right?
Or looking at it as an

301
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,500
investment and when you have an
inventory of it you're probably

302
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:39,400
more willing to, like I said,
pay for things with it but also

303
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,300
accept it as a form of payment.
And that's what a Tesla are

304
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:45,800
looking to do with it.
And the more that it becomes

305
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,800
part of the Day-to-day business
of different economies which is

306
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,300
still there's a long Arc to that
Journey.

307
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,100
So yeah, we'll see what comes of
that but I will let everyone

308
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:58,600
know if I get your job.
Absolutely.

309
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,000
They can live stream, your aunt.
I will.

310
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,400
That'll be a lot of fun on
clubhouse.

311
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,000
Maybe.
Yeah.

312
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:03,900
Yeah.
Or we could do it right here on

313
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:05,100
Riverside.
Absolutely.

314
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,600
Absolutely.
So the next door I want to take

315
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,500
a look at here.
Fintech valuation multiples with

316
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:12,300
spax?
This was in the long take

317
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,200
newsletter or the fintech
blueprint.

318
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,600
From Lex.
Celyn on the 15th of February,

319
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,400
just this past Monday base.
Saying the bank's trade at 10 to

320
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,900
20 times earnings, right?
Earnings being the key word

321
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:26,700
there fintax, and private Market
deals.

322
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:31,800
Go forward at 20 to 100 times
revenues, right?

323
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:35,800
Because it's software, right,
that was what was quoted in in

324
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,800
the newsletter, which there's
obviously some rationale to and

325
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,300
I never had thought about it too
much.

326
00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:44,800
When people said to me, why are
we evaluating private Market

327
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,700
deals and fintech at you know,
on the Peoples of Revenue,

328
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:50,800
rather multiples of earnings.
And I said, well, a lot of them

329
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,700
have no earnings, so you got to
do them on a multiple to

330
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:53,300
something.
Yeah.

331
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:54,600
Right.
But I did hadn't thought about

332
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800
the fact that when you're
selling software in the cost, is

333
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,300
already gone into, developing
that software, there's a lot of

334
00:15:59,308 --> 00:16:02,400
profit and every deal that you
do so revenues, probably more,

335
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,900
you know, a more consistent,
number two to measure rather

336
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:08,900
than earnings.
So what that means is that if

337
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:12,700
banks are trading at 10 to 20
times earnings, but when fintax

338
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:16,700
are in private Market deals at
20 to 100 times Revenue, if you

339
00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:23,700
just assume a In Tech margin,
that's 15 x average for banks

340
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,000
trading.
That's a 500x for a fintech that

341
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:31,300
is entering the public markets
through ass pack or a special

342
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:33,900
purpose.
Acquisition Corporation, the way

343
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:38,600
these things work is that an
investor forms, a company raises

344
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,600
a bunch of money, 300 million to
a billion, seems to be or even

345
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,300
higher than a billion.
Seems to be the figure and then

346
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:49,000
goes public with it and buys a
late Market deal company.

347
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,900
And that's the way that that
company goes public and it's

348
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:54,600
looking like I saw this other
piece today.

349
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,700
I forget who wrote it, that said
something to the effect of for

350
00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:00,500
the year 2021.
It looks like the SPAC deals

351
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,000
will already surpassed that the
basic IPO deals, somewhere in

352
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000
the region of 50 billion to 25
billion which is a pretty big

353
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,500
deal.
Some of the names are talking

354
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:14,800
about payoneer payments provider
in the u.s. so Phi, Apex

355
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,500
clearing who are some of the
plumbing behind Robin Hood and

356
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:18,700
money lying.
Be another one.

357
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:21,900
So who is this pack champion of
the world?

358
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,700
Yeah Moscow.
But yeah, he's the big spec King

359
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,400
out there.
Is this going to change things

360
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,100
remarkably going forward?
Do you think?

361
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:31,100
No, I think like you said it's
another option.

362
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,700
I think it took to just seems to
be plenty of money out there t.

363
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:37,700
The multiples are interesting
and I suppose it's is it a way

364
00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:40,000
to take somebody's companies
public that may not have

365
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,700
necessarily wanted to go public
or they may not have had a path

366
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:46,000
to that yet.
This is the way to do with that.

367
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,900
You know, they're doing it in a
favorable way.

368
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:50,800
Way for themselves.
What company is got to turn down

369
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,500
effectively in approach from the
likes of a shamash with the

370
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:57,000
funding to bring it public as
opposed to maybe going in our

371
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,400
traditional.
Yeah, I'm with you now, I'm

372
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:04,400
thinking about it.
So the IPO method itself, heard

373
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,600
someone describe it is, it's
just a massive wealth.

374
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,800
Transfer is all it is right.
You got a bunch of people buying

375
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,300
in, at the IPO price in the
market and then it skyrockets,

376
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:16,100
not all of them do, but a lot of
them do and people are buying

377
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:17,800
along the way and buying and
then selling it.

378
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,300
The way.
So all that is, it's a you open

379
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:22,200
up on the market at 25 and
clothes on day.

380
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,000
One at 100, you've had $75 per
share in value transfer between

381
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,400
people just buying and selling.
Yeah.

382
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,400
Right.
With a direct listing, you are

383
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,700
bringing shares to market.
And just saying, listen, it's

384
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:34,200
just going to start trading,
right?

385
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,100
And, you know, there there's no
big pre-order book, no big

386
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:40,900
Investment Bank involved.
None of that.

387
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,100
It's just, we're going to open
these shares up for trading so

388
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:47,200
that we can use the capital
markets with our equity in order

389
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,000
to fund.
A business going forward.

390
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,200
Wonderful great with this pack.
You kind of get a little bit of

391
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,900
both, right.
You get that premarket

392
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:59,000
investment before things go
public and, you know, I guess

393
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,900
the investors who take that risk
on the way in when this back is

394
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:07,600
first, founded are the ones that
enjoy the most upside, right?

395
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,500
So you get a little bit of that
without the old-school

396
00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:15,200
Investment Banking model, that
is used to bring an IPO to

397
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,200
Market and do all the road shows
in that kind of stuff

398
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,000
beforehand.
Pretty getting better value.

399
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,300
Then from that investor group,
then going down to the Roadshow

400
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:25,200
root with a JP Morgan or whoever
in terms of what they're

401
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,700
bringing to your business
ordered on the road evaluation

402
00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:30,300
piece is interesting.
I think, because like, you look

403
00:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,100
at a typical bank and where's
the real upside with a

404
00:19:33,108 --> 00:19:35,800
Traditional Bank, you know?
But then you look at some of the

405
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,500
fintechs and we talk about who
pioneered there with any of

406
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:40,200
those.
There's potential upside, as

407
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,400
they kind of diversify your
build-out functionality, because

408
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,900
their software there is, and
it's the ability to adapt the

409
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:48,200
ability to Pivot.
It.

410
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600
And I'm not going to get into
the nft example.

411
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,700
Today, it had something to do
with baseball cards.

412
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,700
I will actually because it's
very quick.

413
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,700
And it was basically, once you
get that old school cardboard

414
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:02,700
baseball card, into the digital
realm, where it is unique, it is

415
00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,400
scarce, and they're obviously
limited issue.

416
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:10,000
And you have individuals
consumers collectors, whoever

417
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:14,600
that appreciate that way of
having a collectible and owning

418
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,800
a collectible, it's Limitless,
what you can do.

419
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,900
Because you were now in the
digital world and it's not just

420
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:24,800
the static piece of cardboard,
what you can link to that is

421
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,800
just unlimited.
And I think that that's a lot of

422
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,200
the thinking going on around on
fungible tokens right now with

423
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,800
fintech, right?
When you take that old school

424
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,800
banking model, right, based upon
paper and old pipes and

425
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,100
plumbing, and things moving
around and, you know, in boxes

426
00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,100
and outbox is still on people's
desks and fax machines and

427
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:46,900
printing things out in different
color paper.

428
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:50,500
So people don't Screw up, right?
And know that the pink is for a

429
00:20:50,508 --> 00:20:53,200
by of the yellow is for a cell,
right?

430
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,300
When you move things out of that
environment, you're creating so

431
00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:58,700
many more monetization
opportunities for what you're

432
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:00,400
doing.
The data are generating.

433
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,800
Its I'm not saying it's
Limitless, like what's his name

434
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,900
Bradley Cooper in the movie, but
you know, more more upside.

435
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:08,900
Thank you.
Thank you.

436
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,700
I think that's the best way to
put it and but, you know, yet

437
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:15,600
the valuations are scary, but I
think we talked about this in

438
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,800
the last six months that I think
all bets are off.

439
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:21,100
Off with those old economic
textbooks on how values

440
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:24,800
perceived in a company, which
again, is just, you know, scary

441
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,200
to this brain that heard this
story back in 1998 with, you

442
00:21:29,208 --> 00:21:32,400
know, the old economy stocks and
new economy, stocks that turned

443
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,800
out to be the.com bubble stocks,
right?

444
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,200
But you know, the only way we
know the story there and how it

445
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,900
all unfolded.
This episode of money never

446
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:46,400
sleeps sponsored by p80 fintech
demystifying, fintech and

447
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,700
digital Finance for financial
services professionals.

448
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,200
P80 fintech enable Financial
Services professionals to

449
00:21:52,208 --> 00:21:55,500
transform their capabilities
into the digital age with

450
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:58,400
dedicated virtual training
programs geared towards those.

451
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,800
It can develop deliver and
monitor optimally customized,

452
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,200
user experiences, balance by
appropriate, governance, control

453
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,100
and oversight to learn more
about.

454
00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:10,100
P80 fintech.
Go to money, never sleeps. .I e

455
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:20,900
/p 80 Finn Tech.
Couple of others that we thought

456
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:25,300
were interesting City lost their
legal battle over half a billion

457
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,400
in a funds transfer gaffe where
I think they Redeemed by

458
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,300
accident a Revlon Bond when it
wasn't meant to be paid back.

459
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:35,200
It was just the interest that
should have been paid on it.

460
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,300
So there was it in a court
ruling.

461
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,300
Basically, the court said,
sorry, you know, you can't have

462
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:45,700
the money back so it was 900
million dollars they sent and

463
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,600
that they got 400 back or they
managed to hold.

464
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:51,900
Hunters are not have that sent
fully, but I saw it because the

465
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,200
New York Times had information
on today and they were saying

466
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:54,700
that.
Yeah.

467
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,400
It was down to some contractor,
taking the wrong box on some

468
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,900
digital kind of process, you
know.

469
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,000
No, major will probably has not
digital process right, which

470
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,100
implies that the person who did
it was a clerk, I'm sure their

471
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:08,800
job title is not clerk, but they
have a 6i is kind of process and

472
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,000
the judges like you have a
process I wouldn't say like it's

473
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,700
ridiculous but at the same time
it's more ridiculous because I

474
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,600
had an incident not too
dissimilar in my old Bank.

475
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,000
Um days, which was maybe 11 or
so ten years ago now, which

476
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,100
related to fawns being sent a
before they were received by the

477
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:27,000
bank I worked in and it was 20
million.

478
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,400
So we were left in a 20 million
position - 20 million position

479
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,100
overnight on our balance sheet
and everyone kicked up murdered

480
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:35,700
and next day but like we should
have been able to release the

481
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,700
phones and it became it was down
to a, I get a phone call from

482
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:42,200
kind of payments team and my
happy to process this payment

483
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,700
and I just say, yep, because I
was expecting it to go out.

484
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:48,200
I was expecting the Fonz in and
that was it and like it's still

485
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,100
happening.
They is no, I mean product line.

486
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:54,300
Decisions are made the same way.
Like I remember it at back in my

487
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,800
banking days, looking at a new
product, called Bond clearing,

488
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,400
I'll get into what that is.
But for the level of bond trades

489
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,200
that were being settled, that
you could basically lose your

490
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,200
entire revenue for one year from
having that product live within

491
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,100
the bank by a Friday screw up,
right?

492
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,700
Because by the time Monday rolls
around the interest charged on

493
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:17,900
that to get that settled
properly in the market.

494
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,200
You just Wiped out everything
because the size and scale that

495
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,600
you're dealing with because he's
markets all settle manually to

496
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,200
absolutely ridiculous.
And this is come up a couple of

497
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,600
times over the last couple of
weeks, looking at how

498
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,000
inefficient the public markets
are not in terms of trading and

499
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,100
price Discovery and all those
types of things.

500
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:40,300
But it's after the trade, it's
the post trade that.

501
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:42,900
So many of these things that
exist, that people don't know

502
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,600
about things that happen behind
Robin Hood during the GameStop

503
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,200
pandemonium that we don't, These
same problems in the crypto

504
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,900
markets.
Now, the crypto markets are

505
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,900
young obviously, right?
But they trade 24/7, the trade

506
00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,500
is the settlement, you know, the
everything is pre-funded, right?

507
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:03,800
And that is good discipline.
Now, all of the momentum is

508
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,000
going towards this type of
environment with it, digital

509
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,200
asset, businesses, that I'm
working with, like, the guys

510
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,600
like fund admin chain Gaza, qpq,
they're working on all these

511
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,900
types of things in order to make
these public markets, far more

512
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,100
efficient Far more digital and
far more like crypto dare.

513
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,100
I say now, Greg to would roll
over in his he's not in bed

514
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:25,700
right now and he's definitely
not in a grave yet.

515
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,900
But by choosing founder qpq, you
know, for me to equate him to

516
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,900
the efficiency of what he calls,
what does he call?

517
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:36,100
It that coin not Bitcoin you
know, he's going to reach out

518
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:39,800
and strangle me across Dublin
but I think it actually it ties

519
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,500
into what we just talked about
around evaluations because like

520
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,800
a lot of those examples we gave
their Plumbing, their

521
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,500
infrastructure, you know?
And that's it.

522
00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:48,600
I so much value is still under
so much.

523
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,300
You'd still be brought and
Innovation to still be brought

524
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:53,900
in financial services in that
infrastructure and plumbing

525
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:56,400
piece that people don't even
realize kind of from the

526
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,800
outside.
Everything is focused on the

527
00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:01,900
direct consumer to sexy stuff
but actually like infrastructure

528
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:05,300
and a plumbing behind a lot of
these things still is so far

529
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:08,800
from being digitized,
absolutely, it's going to take a

530
00:26:08,808 --> 00:26:13,000
while, but it's there are enough
Pioneers out there enough now.

531
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,900
Series E going to direct
listing, going to IPO, whatever

532
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,900
being brought to Market in this
back.

533
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,800
These are mature.
Sure companies that are growing

534
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,200
up across these blurring line
between digital assets and

535
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,700
fintech, which is pretty cool
because that's my life besides

536
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:30,100
my family, right?
So anywho one other thing, just

537
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:34,200
on the, on the topic of crypto,
a crazy week, it's been Bitcoin.

538
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,500
Surpassed 50,000 yesterday when
I was on the phone with GC

539
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:39,600
wouldn't like me to mention
that.

540
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,100
Because he said Pete, if you
ever say anything about this

541
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:44,100
conversation that you and I had,
I'm going to deny everything in

542
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:45,600
court.
So I won't mention who I was

543
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,700
talking to as Bitcoin crossed
over But he knows who he is.

544
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:51,500
Well I'll see if I can get him
to listen to this one.

545
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,300
He might like it.
Yeah, but Goldman Sachs bny

546
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:57,700
Mellon, Deutsche Bank Visa
Mastercard, Morgan Stanley,

547
00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:00,200
Twitter, Uber.
All these companies talking

548
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,700
about either providing crypto
services or investing through

549
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:07,900
their treasuries into crypto.
I thought they there's this guy

550
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:10,300
Jeff doorman at ARCA.
They have their newsletter

551
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:15,500
called, that's our to satoshi's
and what he said was Bitcoin

552
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,600
gets all the headlines while
other digital assets off.

553
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:21,200
Often make investors and
companies all of the money.

554
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,600
We love Bitcoin.
But again, it's a very simple

555
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,700
thesis with a limited future
Evolution, right?

556
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:28,800
It's your gateway into crypto.
Now, is the biggest most

557
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,500
valuable, because stalwart, that
is the most mature at this

558
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:34,000
stage.
So, yeah, it was a massively

559
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,600
crazy week, but I don't expect
things to really slow down.

560
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,300
At this point, I'm not looking
forward to catching my breath

561
00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:43,200
longer k 100K for year-end isn't
definitely probably I know

562
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:44,500
what's causing this week on
Twitter.

563
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,100
I saw me was on one MSNBC or
something being interviewed do

564
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:50,600
today, but he Then underground
by the end of October.

565
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,900
Yeah.
He's I missed this.

566
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:54,500
I missed the announcement back
in.

567
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:57,300
I think it was October November
that, you know, he's getting a

568
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:00,200
rolling phoned up and going so
that's awesome to see that.

569
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:01,700
So yeah.
But those were the key stories

570
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:03,400
for tonight, mr.
Fitzgerald.

571
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,400
Yeah, plenty then I had one
small one and I was more just

572
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,900
amusing.
When I saw the headline in the

573
00:28:08,900 --> 00:28:11,600
Irish independent this week
about Kim customers are angry as

574
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,800
revolute.
Opposites fees for ATM

575
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,600
withdrawals and deposits and
stuff was shocked.

576
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,300
Shocking news.
Quarry Bank, you know, raises

577
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:23,300
fees to make money.
Yeah, three Bank, free Bank

578
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,700
exactly free brain, crazes fees
like okay well like nobody's up

579
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:29,400
nobody soil.
Like we said get everybody

580
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,900
hooked and then just Unleash the
Beast, you know and get everyone

581
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:34,800
paying that's one we talked
about this before.

582
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,700
What's happening every day?
Did you know I remember way back

583
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:38,900
in the day seeing that we're
going to start charging you 99

584
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:40,300
cents a month for this and they
never did.

585
00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:43,000
Yeah, I remember Facebook kind
of squash that the, you know,

586
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000
they say that one is good, I
missed that but I can kind of

587
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,200
rely on you to keep tabs on all
things revolute.

588
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,300
Oh yeah.
Absolutely.

589
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,000
I did.
Actually, I did actually get to

590
00:28:51,008 --> 00:28:55,900
use revolute last over the
weekend where I had, I was

591
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:59,900
buying a bike helmet and the
shop said we only do cash or

592
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,000
Revolution and I'm like, really
okay like yep only cash or of

593
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,300
least you only cash but so many
people came to were coming

594
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:08,300
through saying, hey, you know,
you guys got to take revolute.

595
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,400
And so the woman at the bike
shop, I was kind of embarrassed.

596
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,400
She had to walk me through how I
set up, pay people near you.

597
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:20,800
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's skaters because if you only

598
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,600
do it every so often, you forget
the next time.

599
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,600
But like, if because I've had to
do that on my own, that's

600
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
bizarre.
Like that's bizarre to say only

601
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,300
cash or revving.
Yeah, exactly one of the other

602
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:32,400
and and you know what she's
walking me through that and say,

603
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,200
no, no, not there, not there.
No, no that button that button.

604
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,600
I'm like don't don't, you know,
him in fintech obviously not

605
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,900
expert in it.
All right.

606
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800
Well, I think we're going to
call it a night there.

607
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,700
What do you think?
So what do we got another bunch

608
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:47,800
of interviews coming up over the
next few weeks.

609
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,300
I think we're scheduled Out for
the next two months, at least at

610
00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:57,200
this stage.
So I know That does it for this

611
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,300
week folks and you can learn
more about the stories we

612
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:01,700
covered in the show, notes on
our website, money never sleeps.

613
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:04,700
.I, so check us out online and
subscribe to our weekly.

614
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:06,500
Money, never sleeps newsletter
as well.

615
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:09,800
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy,
from create sound for mixing and

616
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,100
editing.
This episode Conan is an

617
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:14,200
excellent medium and to get in
touch with when you're thinking

618
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,800
about launching your own
podcast.

619
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:18,900
As for me I'm the founding
partner at norio ventures and

620
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,200
I'm an early stage startup
advisor, an investor focused on

621
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,400
fintech and digital assets like
to talk me about your business.

622
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:29,000
Drop me a voicemail on money
never sleeps that I finally till

623
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,500
next time.
Thanks for listening.

624
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:30,900
See you