182: Hate It Or Love It | LiveDuel | Will Martin & Laura Brkic

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend.
This is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, and at the

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crossover of startups,
Enterprise Finance, technology

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and Life.
As We Know It, This episode of

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money, never sleeps is sponsored
by Phillip Lee one of Ireland's

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fastest growing corporate law
firms and expert.

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Advisors the heart of the Dublin
and London startup fintech and

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crypto communities.
On the show this week we've got

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and well Martin founder and CEO
of Life duel and um Laura

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burkitt's.
And I'm a product designer at

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level five tools.
Defy power.

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Digital Sports Market would live
fan engagement live tool

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supports decentralized sports
betting built on blockchain to

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give you a fair deal than
traditional sports betting

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sites.
Like Twitter, the fifth of 10

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founding teams formed the launch
pool, web three textures

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accelerator class of 2020 to
that we've got on the show over

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the next couple of months.
In this episode I talk to Will

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and Laura about how they got
together with Alex loose to

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drive live dual forward, what
live dual is and how it works.

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Replacing the house in sports,
betting markets with defy

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liquidity pools, and staying
close to the long-term Vision

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while executing in the short
term.

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All right here on money, never
sleeps.

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Listen, just to get started.
Why don't we do this?

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We'll share your back story, how
you got to this point and then

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we'll ask Laura to do the same
thing.

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Yeah, sure.
Sounds good.

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It's my own background is in
economics and computer science.

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One of his in University learned
about Arbitrage in the financial

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market.
So, back of Economics class,

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learned about price difference
in oil between say, London and

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New York and Traders.
Make them a profit by it.

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Scooting to trades and noticing
a price difference.

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Since my clever brain went.
I wonder if you could do that

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for sports betting, because
there was a new thing called

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Betfair at the time and Europe
was kind of going through what

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America is going through right
now in terms of a sports,

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betting Revolution with loads of
betting companies starting up.

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So made a lot of money doing
that over a number of years had

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kind of identified, my career,
when I was quite young, I wanted

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to be a wall street-type Trader
on the floor barking at ideas.

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Thrown hand signals of what
you're buying and selling.

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And so, did that for a couple of
years was very different was all

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on a computer for screens, very,
very boring but as working the

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day of the flash crash in May
2010 trillion lost in like 15

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minutes.
Thankfully, it was not in any

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trades at the time but the
market kind of bends back very

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quick and that was my kind of
hands up in the air moment of

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I'm never going to be able to
compete with Bots algorithms,

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high frequency Traders because I
was reading fed reports job

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reports, inflation numbers,
loading screens and charts.

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To get an advantage but when
you're competing against

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computers who bought and sold
tens of hundreds of Millions

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worth of stock in a second.
By the time you even turn on one

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of those four screens that I was
using.

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And that's when I kind of went
that's actually not for me.

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So later on that Year my brother
got married in India and so I

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decided to take the long route
home use that as the kind of

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starting point to a world tour,
went to Indonesia Macau,

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substituted quite interesting in
the the sports, betting world

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and I'd heard that Co is seven
times larger than the in Vegas.

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I was like, okay.
How is that possible have been

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to Vegas before and it's
absolutely insane went to

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Taiwan.
I learned about NFC technology

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and went back to the States and
then home to Ireland.

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So she kind of came back with
the idea of NFC be in the future

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of money payment.
So that was in the end of 2010.

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Had tried a start up there in
that space said to what I was

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kind of trying to do is
digitized loyalty cards for

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coffee shops.
So people would just have with

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their phone.
Instead of getting the little

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paper card that they use, Stick
in your wallet and you get a

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stamp very interesting product
way too early and kind of

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realize that the Samsung Galaxy
2 was also launched in Europe

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with it with NFC.
Then at the last minute they

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weren't actually no we're not
going to do that in Europe

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because the technology just
wasn't here you know even

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recently Apple had been brought
up by the the EU for locking

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down there in a sea trip.
So even if I had tried to

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struggle on, I would have been
very, very tough.

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So yeah.
We're concerned us for a number

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of years, went back and did a
masters when I was building the

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DNA.
Teeth product of a teach myself

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Android coding and we thought
through the University of San

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Francisco.
So I was like, okay, I've kind

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of given up on on the startup.
Maybe I'll just go to San

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Francisco absorb the culture.
Sit down a few of these classes

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but turns out it was just kind
of a once-off.

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But what I was on the University
of San Francisco website, came

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across this Masters.
That was three sister

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universities, so studied in
Barcelona Taiwan and San

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Francisco.
So yeah, can you use that as a

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jumping off point to get into
deeper into education.

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So when I Finished that I did a
start up again, which is part of

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the textures and learned a lot
about actual.

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Okay.
You have this idea.

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How did you actually execute
whereas a master's in

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entrepreneurship management as
good as it was your kind of

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reading Harvard Business Review
papers, so it's very much on the

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high level, kind of sight.
So when that ended, I did a

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gamification kind of program
that was through the University

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of Pennsylvania and University
of Stanford to machine learning,

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kind of program, because I kind
of identified those two.

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And in 2012, Was being hugely
influential for the next kind of

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10 years.
And I guess we're still kind of

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seeing that today that machine
learning and Ai and gamification

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are, you know, they're quite
opposite but they do great

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things for technology and
products, very good and then

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getting going with your sports
Tech live podcast in 2019 doing

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the techstars sports Tech
newsletter.

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Those experiences leading up
into the beginnings of live

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tool.
Now you founded live dual a

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number of years back.
Back.

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But it feels like it's just
started in the last.

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Probably your to pivoting a bit
and ramping up into web three.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, I shaved bought the domain.

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How, what?
I was still in University, in

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2008.
Okay, so, just move, yeah, fell

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in.
Love with the idea of everything

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going live goes, kind of what I
was doing, sports, betting,

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Arbitrage and sports betting
trading, you know, everything

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was becoming, but the
live-action, you know, before

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that it was all about, you know,
getting her bed in before The

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match started of the game
started, but then there was kind

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of innovation in the industry
of, I guess, kind of real-time

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delivery of prices, and being
able to execute trades.

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So, yeah, I just love the idea
of the live aspect and then the

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Dual kind of sight and was
people love having their own

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opinions.
When you kind of mash those

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together, you know, people have
not an adversarial, a kind of

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conversation but the beauty of
it supports dissolves, the great

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debate, people who have
different opinions on, even just

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seeing a game, whether someone
paid well or not, people who

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have opposing opinions, so let
your kind of pivoted around

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multiple different kind of
ideas.

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Sports betting was actually
where I kind of started but of

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see the regulatory stance in the
world right now is very

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different to what it was in 2014
us have legalized.

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So you know, that's a huge
opportunity when I was trying to

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raisins in San Francisco, in
2014, it was basically like

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America will never legalize, you
know, it's just one of those

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things that it's just not gonna
happen.

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So, you have been in this sport
space for a long time.

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Reach out to techstars actually,
before they had a sports Tech

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program.
Say, Hey, I'll do the sports,

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that newsletter free and they're
like, no, it's not something

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we're interested in.
And then you know they have

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three sports like programs in
the last kind of three years or

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so maybe four years and so
Indianapolis Melbourne and

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Minnesota or Minneapolis say
I've been doing that for three

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years and it's a great way for
me to kind of stay on top of

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what's happening because the
world is ports.

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Heck is so broad.
You know, it's sports betting,

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it's streaming, it's a RV or
metaverse, crypto marketing,

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social media data, Hardware, Are
becoming it's it's everything.

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So it's a great way for me to
kind of stay on top of all the

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trends and who's doing deals
with to Very good.

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We're going to come back to what
is live duel in a minute, but,

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you know, just rounding out
looking at your backstory.

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Well, and seeing the financial
background that I want to be a

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traitor.
I went through that same

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experience myself, well as well,
back in the 80s and 90s and then

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getting this multiple different
set of experiences in education

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and immersive activities that
you were involved with that all

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have combined into what you're
doing right now.

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Just seems like Right story,
Laura I want to hear from you as

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well.
Over the last ten years in the

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u.s. space in product design.
Why don't we bring you into the

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loop here as well?
In terms of how you got to this

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point?
Yeah, yeah.

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Well back, when I started I
actually wanted to become an

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artist but okay.
Yeah.

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Which is quite different but
very similar and I'll tell you

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why artists needs to have skills
obviously to paint and Draw.

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But the core of being an artist
is being able to observe analyze

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and to create something new
based on what you observed and

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this part of the creation and
analyzing is very useful.

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When you are doing a product
which is for people to use

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obviously digital products as
well.

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So, I didn't want to be a
starving artist because I didn't

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like that lifestyle and I
understood that you could.

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All these skills in order to
make something that it's needed

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on today's economy.
And that's why I design came in.

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And I joined an IT company that
was eight years ago.

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But before that, I also have my
own head of my own little start

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at where it was the beginning,
where people really started

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using smartphones like around 10
years ago.

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And I really liked that
interactive part of your product

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because you're building
something that's truly people.

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Really use and looking at how
people use it and then okay, I

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can do it better and observing
that and creating something that

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is alive.
It gives you so much pleasure

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and I don't know, that's a super
interesting combination there.

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Laura in the you know, the
origins of wanting to be an

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artist and that where you're
creating things.

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The I just wore the here just
appreciates and put it that much

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thought into something so that
you can have this.

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Flat medium or perhaps, sound
medium, what it sounds like in

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your case.
It's light medium that you know

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that that someone can appreciate
and enjoy.

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But then turning on the
interactivity angle.

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Yeah sure.
Basically it's the evolution of

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art.
But if this is a commercial use

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and I think people are
abandoning not really going in

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the museum, consuming art also
on the phones, their laptops

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listening and All that different
ways to interact that are

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present today and being able to
create something that people

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really use.
It's the best thing you can do

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as an artist actually, but I'm
not an artist.

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Obviously, I think you might
still be an artist, so will, you

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know, it don't sell yourself
short but, you know, just

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looking at your background and
seeing you move through, 2012

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2013, 14 into 15, you know, as a
designer freelancer digital

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Shiner and then for about seven
years it with sofa score.

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Yeah.
I tell us a little bit about

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that and how that's kind of
unfolded for you in terms of how

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you ended up meeting.
Well, yeah sure.

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So at the time I wanted to join
sulfur score it had already 1.5

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million active users so it
wasn't small.

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But when I left it was about 20
million active users, we can

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actually a huge number of users
and It's fun to look at all the

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comments that people have on
your product and also doing user

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research with so many users.
It's great planning the product

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for so many users and any change
that you want to make and how

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people react to those changes
deciding what to implement

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first.
Also based on comments and also

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based on popularity of certain
sports or a feature, always

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comparing yourself to
competition and And also, when

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you do something, when you have
a design that people start

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copying and then, you know, you
did something all that.

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Actually, it was fun to be
copied by someone else.

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And so, I still see a lot of my
ideas and things that I changed

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in The Way live score.
Looks that other apps are using

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and still even though I'm not in
the company anymore, I still

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look at my designs, their eyes.
Yeah, appreciate your own art.

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Can you show us that?
And it's really fun when I see

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other people looking at it, much
more than, you know, the way I

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consumed it because I always
just have the eye that still

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analyzes what I did.
But others are not so much

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analyzing, they're just enjoying
it, or using it as a tool for an

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everyday lives, which is great,
very good, very good.

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And then we'll Don't you may be
kind of round this out here and

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bring us together with how you
and Laura got together.

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Yeah, for sure.
So last September, my friend

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from University, phenol studied
with him in Barcelona, lived

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with him in Barcelona and then
we travel to Taiwan in San

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Francisco.
He got married.

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So I was over in Barcelona for
his wedding and obviously was

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during the pandemic and had been
nowhere in about 18 months.

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I was like, okay we're gonna use
this as a holiday you know

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jumping off point of Two days
for the wedding.

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But let's say in Barcelona for
an extra week like I do, when I

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go anywhere I'm always looking
up Meetup or Eventbrite, just to

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see what's happening in that
City that I'm in and turns out

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there was a sports betting
conference.

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So I used my text areas Sports
egg, live background.

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I say hey I'm from the media any
chance of a free ticket and they

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went yeah, that's absolutely
fine.

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But can you include a link in
our in the digest at help

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promote it.
So got free tickets went along

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and there was a bunch of
startups there and sofa score

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was there and I've been a user
of silver score for For a number

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of years and just have been
obsessed to bit about the design

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and how they, I guess, kind of
take pretty generic Sports data

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and turn them into pretty charts
and data visualizations to help

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me as a sports fan.
Can understand what's happening

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on the pitch.
So can I spoke with someone from

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sofa score did kind of a profile
on them for the newsletter?

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But it was kind of asking
questions about who's the

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designer?
You know.

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I use it as such.
Great product speaking with Emma

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from sofa score.
So I reached out to her Exit on

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LinkedIn and then found Laura
through Emma, and then it was

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messaging with Laura LinkedIn
after we connected you.

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So they I'm actually meeting
Emma tonight for a glass of wine

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after work.
So we kind of made arrangements

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Center to kind of meet up and
explain the product in more

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detail and kind of showed the
designs that I did.

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Because during the first lock
turn, I did a ui/ux course.

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So have very, very basic skills
there, but I think it was enough

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to kind of convey the message of
what I'm trying to build.

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That's the way to do it, you
know, the power of the network,

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right?
Yeah.

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Get out there and Well, go in
with an educated mindset.

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First on what it is that you're
looking for?

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Now it's great.
And Laura how did you feel about

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connecting with Willa first?
Yeah well I really like the idea

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because it was basically all
that I knew already.

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Also I was kind of new in the
blockchain to but it's a year

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now and you know how things in
the blockchain world are very

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fast in a year, you can really
get to learn a lot and the idea

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of merging those Two things into
one prediction Market.

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I liked it so from the very
start.

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So basically the idea was so
great that I said, okay, sure,

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let's do that.
Good and then Alex, your CTO.

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Tell us how you brought him into
the mix as well.

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Yes, it was funny.
We met John Hill at the start of

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the, the techstars program at
the former LinkedIn evangelist.

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And, yeah, I guess, LinkedIn
extraordinaire.

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I've had to power the network
and building relationships.

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So after it did start a weekend
and Francisco.

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After I did my masters, I kind
of got involved came back to

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00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,300
Ireland decided.
Hey the cork ecosystem isn't as

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00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:34,800
well connected to, this should
be in prison 2013.

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So decided to run started
pretending.

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It was kind of a very good
successful weekend, but after

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00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,500
that, I kind of took the next
step in the startup weekend

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00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,400
ecosystem, and that's becoming a
facilitator.

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So of facilitated events, all
throughout Europe, Canada,

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America, UK, Etc.
So in 2018 or 2017, I think of

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As Tech started started, doing
founder Khan in Europe, which

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was in Berlin, but they just
acquired startup weekend as

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well.
So they decided to do a

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00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,800
facilitator, Khan and John Hill
represented in both rooms for

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00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,700
the founders and for the
facilitators.

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And so he showed his skills of
how to make use of our Network.

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So that's how I found out Alex
essentially.

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So I was looking at the market
of prediction markets, found a

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00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,800
successful competitor.
Check the box of when you're

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00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,500
looking for someone they're X
company.

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You check the box for for that
competitor looked for react.

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So I was okay reacted, probably
the technology we're going to

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reuse and I think probably only
like two people who showed up,

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Alex is one of them.
Wow.

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So I kind of reached out to him
set up, a zoom call, kind of

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00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:45,300
explain the idea.
And where was kind of coming

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00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:48,900
from and yeah, he loved it.
So we just wow, we'd gotten the

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00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:52,200
Grant from be Pro Network.
So kind of give us an initial

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00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,900
funds so I could speak to Laura
and speak to Alex and say, Say,

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00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,500
hey, we've made some little
progress, but I will need your

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00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:04,000
help to unlock the idea and
start putting things in motion

333
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:09,800
from a product perspective.
Hey everyone, this is Pete.

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00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,300
Let me tell you about the folks
at Phillip.

335
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,100
Lee few years ago.
Is that my first Venture Capital

336
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,200
industry dinner in Dublin and
honestly I felt a bit lost.

337
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,300
I bumped into Andrews is Ali.
One of the partners at Phillip

338
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:22,600
Lee.
He bought me a pint introduced

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00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,800
me to the team and they took me
under their wing that take you

340
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,500
under their wing approach has
been what I've heard

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00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:30,500
consistently from fintech.
And crypto startups who I know

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00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,600
have worked with Phillip Lee and
Dublin in London to help them

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00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,900
wrap the right legal framework
around their business.

344
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:39,100
But Raising and Regulatory needs
and I can't recommend them

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00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:40,900
enough.
Get in touch with a team at

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00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:43,300
Phillip Lee dot IE or on money.
Never sleeps.

347
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,500
That IE /.
Phillip Lee to learn more.

348
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:51,700
That's fantastic, that's
fantastic.

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00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:55,100
And that, you know, we're all
sitting there in the techstars

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00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:57,000
cohort.
The beginning of April and

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00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,800
listening to John.
He'll tell the story about how

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00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,700
to use LinkedIn to the fullest
to find people, right at find

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00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,500
customers, find Talent.
You would already done that.

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00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,400
Yeah.
And I have to thank John

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00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,000
afterwards because I didn't even
realize I was doing that and

356
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,700
they just kind of sat through
session multiple years before it

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00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,600
just became a habit of what I've
done and I'm doing similar right

358
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,900
now for on the marketing side.
Wow, Community manager.

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00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:24,600
Type Grill.
Yeah, powerful stuff.

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00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:27,000
Shadow John Hill.
Very good.

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00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,000
All right.
We'll listen, tell us.

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00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,300
What is live tool?
Well, and why is it unique?

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00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,800
And why is this?
Something that just makes so

364
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,600
much sense for the A of you to
be working on right now.

365
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,800
Yeah, so I left you a lizard,
E5, pirate Sports prediction

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00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,900
market and life, an engagement
platform.

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00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,700
So I guess the deep buzzwords
that please do.

368
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,400
Yeah.
So prediction markets are, you

369
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,400
know, sports betting companies,
they could be stock markets and

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00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,800
so we're focused very much on
the sports side of things.

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What I love about sports is
Everyone said, oh the outcome,

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00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:02,400
everyone thinks they might know
Lyoko more.

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00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,800
Everyone will have an opinion on
what's going to happen.

374
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,400
So being able to gamify at that
kind of side of things and what

375
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,000
else are having a financial
incentive for the winners or the

376
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,900
person who has the most
knowledge, ER, can predict the

377
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:15,500
future.
Because when you look at

378
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:18,700
markets, you know,
financialization of them makes

379
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:21,100
them more efficient over time or
at least that's the, the general

380
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:24,800
concept behind the stock market.
So yeah, as a huge sports fan

381
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,400
and as a former Trader, I kind
of wanted to bring the two

382
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,600
together and see what benefits.
Having the two together could

383
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:32,000
make.
So when you look at the sports

384
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,100
betting industry, you know, it's
very much The House Always Wins

385
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,500
type philosophy and the reason
they were in is because there's

386
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,200
a include a 5 to 20%.
What is essentially a fee into

387
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,900
the big picture?
He had the vague exactly for

388
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:48,600
from America, don't know what
the European kind of version is

389
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,400
but by removing the house you
don't need to charge such high

390
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,400
rates.
So we believe that can deliver a

391
00:20:54,408 --> 00:20:57,000
better product and to the
end-user that they've Affair

392
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,400
will come.
So when I was watching March

393
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,500
Madness, A flip of a coin on the
spread better dollar to win 80

394
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,600
cents.
That's a very terrible result,

395
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,500
because it's a coin toss.
You should be hidden close to

396
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:13,100
the dollar in return, right?
So we believe with using the

397
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:16,200
power of D Phi and the
blockchain better dollar when 96

398
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,500
cents of see there's still kind
of fees involved but that's a

399
00:21:18,508 --> 00:21:21,200
20% uplift from traditional
Sports books.

400
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:23,900
Got it you got me thinking now.
Well you really got me thinking

401
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:27,200
now is there a way that this can
go that says you can actually

402
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,000
get better at predicting the
outcome?

403
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,300
Sports games.
Yeah, absolutely.

404
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,700
Yo, we see in the data explosion
in sports, I guess us.

405
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:38,200
Ports are probably led the way
with all the data that comes out

406
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,500
of each individual.
Us sport, like, baseball is

407
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:44,700
pretty much a game stats.
Mmm, hence money both, they're

408
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:47,400
able to sign players that were
undervalued.

409
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,100
That delivered them a World
Series.

410
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,800
Every season in say soccer,
there's new stats being created

411
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,500
and being marketed essentially,
you know, Amazon of done, a

412
00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:00,200
great job of so called next-gen.
It's, they're doing it for the

413
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,200
NFL during a rugby.
They're doing it for soccer.

414
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,300
They're doing it for formula.
One because each individual game

415
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,000
is producing so much data.
Each individual data point is

416
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,000
something that can be tracked
and measured and correlated and

417
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,000
put into a model that in the
future might help people predict

418
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,200
better than the average for
sports games.

419
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,200
And we haven't even kind of
gotten into the areas around the

420
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,500
data that's coming off the
individual athlete and just kind

421
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:27,500
of a big debate right now of who
owns the data coming out from

422
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:31,800
the Appellate so heart race.
Rest recovery, VO2 max has

423
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,700
distance covered.
All these kind of interesting

424
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:36,300
data points that could
potentially form part of a

425
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:38,700
prediction model to help people
predict sports.

426
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:42,600
But what I love about prediction
markets is it's the wisdom of

427
00:22:42,608 --> 00:22:44,300
the crowd.
So we read that book when I was

428
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:48,500
in first year economics.
And you know, the theory is get

429
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:51,700
a large enough pool of people to
make a prediction, will be

430
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,200
better than any one person or
any one expert in that group.

431
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,500
That's what I really love about
prediction markets and markets

432
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:01,500
in general.
Is that whatever the price says

433
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,700
or whatever, the trading figure
is, that's everyone's best.

434
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:07,800
Guess at that moment in time,
doesn't mean it's right.

435
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,700
But that's the combined wisdom
of hundreds of thousands or

436
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:13,700
hundreds of thousands of
participants say so.

437
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:17,600
Yeah, very excited to see the
coming together of prediction

438
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,900
markets Plus data.
And you know, when we did when I

439
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:22,700
did the machine learning thing,
it was all about building.

440
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,800
Those models of taking in data
points to have an output and I

441
00:23:25,808 --> 00:23:30,400
love to kind of get back there.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's fascinating

442
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,600
and I'm thinking Laura that
there is a responsibility here.

443
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,100
This product designer not even
responsibility but at a strong

444
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:43,000
need to say okay will and I are
riffing right now on statistical

445
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,500
models and this incredible
complexity of the art of the

446
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,800
possible or the stat of the
possible, whatever you want to

447
00:23:48,808 --> 00:23:51,400
call it.
And there's then the need to

448
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,400
abstract all that complexity
away and put something in the

449
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,200
users hands.
That is simple and easy for them

450
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,600
to understand.
And How do you balance this

451
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,500
complexity with all?
That is possible with data and

452
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:06,500
statistics and the wisdom of the
crowd like you're saying we'll

453
00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:10,300
with the need to create a usable
product that surprises and

454
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:11,800
delights people.
How do you do that?

455
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,100
Yeah, so first of all, of course
you need to understand all the

456
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:20,600
data and what they mean, and
think about new ways to use the

457
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,300
data and the creativity, there
is a with people who are very

458
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:31,000
knowledgeable to decide, okay?
How can we use the data and when

459
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,400
you know how and when you know
what's the main goal with the

460
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,100
data, you gathered, you want to
obstruct, everything that people

461
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:42,300
don't need all the info that
they don't really need to know

462
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:46,000
exactly.
And to do that in a way that

463
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,700
really people do understand.
And for that, when you have your

464
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:55,000
sketches, your ideas, or with
all the data and the views, and

465
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,400
the graphs, you have to test
that you just have.

466
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,200
Show it to as many people as you
can.

467
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,700
Ideally 15-5 is already enough
to show if it's working or not.

468
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:10,200
But 115, people really
understand what you wanted to

469
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,700
show then that's perfect.
So basically the process of

470
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,000
gathering the load so my ideas
and then to narrow it down to

471
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,300
and sometimes it will not work
and you have to be you have to

472
00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:26,400
be ready to bin all the work you
did.

473
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,100
If it doesn't work if people
don't Understand it.

474
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,600
It's more.
It's more of an obstruction for

475
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:36,500
as user experience into because
sometimes you just don't need

476
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,600
the extra breath.
And yeah, yeah, yeah.

477
00:25:39,608 --> 00:25:42,800
How many conversations do you
need to do to get to 15 the get

478
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,300
it?
Well, teaching this on people's.

479
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,000
Okay, no.
I thought you made you go out to

480
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,700
like a thousand people and you
try to get to 15 that would say

481
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:53,800
oh yeah I get that.
I really hope that makes sense

482
00:25:53,800 --> 00:26:00,700
to me.
You don't need to show it to so

483
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,200
many people.
I gotcha.

484
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,800
I gotcha.
People will already show almost

485
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,400
100 of problems of the sea or
user experience or, yeah,

486
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:14,200
because that way, if you didn't
do it, he wouldn't expect for

487
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,200
some problems to come up so
quickly, then repeat themselves,

488
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,000
but they do when you start
showing people, you get it in

489
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,700
the much clearer way and you
would never tell that five

490
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,900
people will would have the same
issue but they They do.

491
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:31,400
So, that's something that you
want to tackle as fast as

492
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,500
possible.
I got you, that makes sense and

493
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:35,900
willed, shifting gears a little
bit.

494
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,500
Why don't you tell us about
who's replacing the house,

495
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:40,400
right?
When you think about the house

496
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,400
that provides liquidity to be
able to take different sides of

497
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,500
the BET?
And like like we said, take the

498
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:48,800
vague as well with live dual.
What is the plan for replacing

499
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,400
the house?
And replacing that liquidity?

500
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:53,500
Yeah, no, it's a very
interesting kind of problem.

501
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,400
When you remove the house, you
remove quite a lot.

502
00:26:56,500 --> 00:27:00,300
So when I first came up with the
idea for the It was I guess they

503
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:01,900
kind of started the Game.
Stop Mania.

504
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,200
I'm not that kind of shower
thought of oh like Robin Hood

505
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,700
has done an amazing job of
taking a complicated financial

506
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:10,300
transaction and make it a very
seamless process.

507
00:27:10,300 --> 00:27:13,300
So I was like that would be a
very interesting thing to do for

508
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:16,600
the World of Sports.
So what down that rabbit hole of

509
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,200
what of Robin Hood built, a
prediction market for sports and

510
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,100
Esports.
Well that's where the idea came

511
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:23,400
out of.
So the crypto side came

512
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,900
secondary to that because I was
facing the issue of liquidity

513
00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:29,000
provision.
So it was a pure Or exchange,

514
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,000
you need to find people on both
sides of the market.

515
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
So that obviously wasn't going
to work because that's really,

516
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,500
really hard to scale.
This, you have to find a Boston

517
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,300
Red Sox fan to match with every
Yankees fan.

518
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:40,000
So they actually can trade
against each other.

519
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,200
Whereas, I'm not sure which team
is the better team, but I'll, I

520
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,500
know comment on that, this week,
you'll come to learn that this

521
00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:48,600
week.
Yeah, I might use a soccer

522
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,900
example, so, so I'm, but, no,
really?

523
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:52,500
You would go.
Go ahead and use the Red Sox and

524
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:54,200
Yankees if you want.
But, I'm just gonna click like,

525
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,900
and talk about how the Red Sox
are performing.

526
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,300
We don't talk about the Red Sox.
Yeah.

527
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,800
Yes we can Spurs are doing
really well, looks like they're

528
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,700
going to get Champions League,
fingers crossed.

529
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:06,300
I haven't jinxed it, but there
might be 100 people that want to

530
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,400
bet on Spurs, get in the
Champions League because

531
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,000
they're, you know, two points
ahead.

532
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,000
But one game to go and a
relatively easy game, the end,

533
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:15,400
there's 10 people might only
want to bet on Arsenal.

534
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:17,700
They've hired two fixtures or
two points behind is only one

535
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:21,500
game left.
So, in a traditional exchange,

536
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,600
10 of those trades, could get
mash-off it off each other and

537
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,300
then the another 90 Spurs bets
that will kind of go unmatched.

538
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,100
Traditionally, I've see if it's
against the house, the house

539
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:33,700
would take the other side of
those 90 bets.

540
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,300
But when you go for a peer to
peer exchange, there's any bets

541
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:38,200
that will go on Match, which is
a terrible experience,

542
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,900
obviously.
So that was a key kind of part

543
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:43,000
of life duels, like, how do we
solve that issue?

544
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,300
And then the more I kind of got
into decentralised finance and

545
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:49,300
the world.
The crypto is like, okay, that's

546
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,500
where the liquidity prisons
going to come from.

547
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:54,300
So part of the life, drill
strategy is to attract liquidity

548
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:58,300
providers, people who put in
money stake it will create

549
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:01,100
Liquidity pool.
And then the end-users

550
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:03,100
effectively trading against that
liquidity pool.

551
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:06,700
So we'll move that liquidity to
the different markets where

552
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:09,400
there's demand.
So this weekend might be okay

553
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,300
despite his verses are some
example then on Sunday evening,

554
00:29:12,300 --> 00:29:17,300
it might be the Red Sox versus
the Yankees and basic a virtuous

555
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,700
cycle kind of moving around,
picking up the vague and

556
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,800
delivering a return for the
liquidity providers.

557
00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:24,300
Yeah.
And as long as the yield that

558
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:28,000
you're paying to liquidity
providers is at the right level

559
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,500
where the Economics of your
platform, Works where the fees

560
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:32,400
that you're taking in your
generating enough.

561
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,600
He's in order to pay that yield
but still keep a profit going.

562
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:40,100
Then you've got a nice little
mini economy going there, which

563
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:43,000
is the nature of web, 32
building an economy rather than

564
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,400
building a company.
Yeah, exactly.

565
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,900
And I guess by economics
background, I've been very

566
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:49,300
focused on the kind of aspect
from the very, very beginning.

567
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:51,900
Because essentially you're
creating your own closed

568
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,800
economy, I'll see there's kind
of externalities and external

569
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,200
factors at play but, you know,
essentially you're Keep people

570
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,200
in your economy and growth over
time.

571
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:06,000
Very good thinking about how big
this can all get right in that

572
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,900
when you know, that
decentralized element liquidity

573
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:13,700
pools, replacing the house, and
that expecting live dual to be

574
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,400
incredibly successful with that,
well, in Laura and Alex in In

575
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,900
Absentia as well.
That it shout out to Alex C is

576
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:24,000
at permissionless in Palm Beach.
As I understand, I just saw a

577
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,500
picture of him with a couple of
other folks from the techstars

578
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:28,200
cohort.
So shout out to Lou.

579
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,000
Lucas Bruhl and Victor Lee who
are there in Palm Beach with

580
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600
him.
So just to use the example from

581
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,000
baseball, as we talked about
this whole Moneyball angle, that

582
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:43,500
there is a stat in baseball
called wins above replacement or

583
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:48,100
wa are War.
And what that basically is, is

584
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,900
that how many wins does a
particular player?

585
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:54,200
Contribute, what are their
statistics in aggregate

586
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,100
responsible for in terms of the
number of games that their team

587
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,800
wins base?
On their performance in the game

588
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,500
and that it's a very, very
complicated statistical but it's

589
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:06,100
used a lot.
Best players sometimes

590
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,000
responsible for 10 wins per
year, okay?

591
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,700
And if a major league baseball
team has 81 games per year in

592
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:17,200
their home stadium, another 81
games away.

593
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,400
This is not including the
playoffs, then you can say that,

594
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,200
okay?
If they're responsible for 10

595
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,500
wins per year, just to that
half, and half and save you

596
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:28,200
responsible for five wins in the
home stadium out of 80.

597
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,300
One games per year, that one
single player, okay?

598
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:36,900
And so what's the revenue that
that team makes four tickets for

599
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:41,500
those 81 games that they play?
And the better teams win, more

600
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:44,300
more bums on seats.
The more tickets sold so you can

601
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:48,000
back into what should I pay
somebody, right?

602
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,200
You can say that based upon the
average number of wins, they're

603
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,100
going to create a win.
Will put X number of people in

604
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:57,800
seats and create that much in
ticket sales and advertising

605
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,100
Revenue.
TV deal in licensing, deals, all

606
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:02,100
that type of stuff.
You can actually go to that

607
00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:02,800
length.
Do this.

608
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:08,200
I think that's, you know, a lot
of that type of math is used and

609
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,700
how baseball Executives come up
with salaries that they're going

610
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,700
to pay to their players.
You could go to the nth degree

611
00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:16,900
with Statistics, that you're
going to gather here and what

612
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:20,400
you make available for people to
be able to predict.

613
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,900
And then also folks on the other
side to be able to provide

614
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:25,500
liquidity for.
Have you put much thought into

615
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,100
how this looks.
And you know, when The liquidity

616
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:31,800
pools do take over for the house
and what this element of

617
00:32:31,808 --> 00:32:35,000
decentralization can do to
unlock a lot more value in this

618
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,000
space.
Yeah, it's a really, really

619
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,800
interesting points because data
is exploding, every data point

620
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,600
is a potential market for us.
But I guess to appoint earlier,

621
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:48,800
you know, we need to be kind of
laser focused and make it as

622
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:51,100
easy as possible for people to
come on board.

623
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:54,000
So we're going to be launching
with three different markets for

624
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,700
a typical sports or Esports
game.

625
00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:57,900
You know who's going to win
it'll be over and under a

626
00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:02,400
certain Home run number or in
soccer at certain goal number

627
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:06,700
and then the spray it till the
favorite - half a point or half

628
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,900
a goal, the underdog plus or
minus the the opposite amount.

629
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:14,000
So the reason we're doing that
is that we want to focus our

630
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,800
liquidity into the primary
markets and 80% of what's bet on

631
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,400
at the moment comes from those
three markets because the key

632
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,000
thing about those markets is
that they go live and in play

633
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,700
and will be active from two
weeks for the game.

634
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:30,300
Starts right up to the final
whistle.

635
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,900
So that kind of that live
element is where the lion share

636
00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:36,100
of liquidity kind of comes into
the market.

637
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:38,800
So we're going to focus on those
initially, but then, as you say

638
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,100
like there's there's so much
data, there's so much potential

639
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:44,300
markets and I guess fantasy
sports have taken a lead here of

640
00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:48,500
taking data and turning it in
the gamification into a game of

641
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:52,600
competition and bragging rights
ham for friends again, friends

642
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,700
or friends against other groups.
So yeah, over time we will kind

643
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,900
of look more at the the esoteric
kind of one's of Specific

644
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:03,200
players, you know, we are a, is
a big one in basketball points,

645
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,900
rebounds, and assists.
We have an over and under and

646
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:07,400
that I think would be
phenomenal.

647
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,100
But for us, for right now, we
need to focus for the users into

648
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:14,400
the the primary Market.
But we also need to focus our

649
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,900
liquidity.
So we're not having loads of

650
00:34:16,908 --> 00:34:20,400
different little silos and
splintering off into a market

651
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,000
that might only generate, you
know, 1% of of the action.

652
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,199
But Orion as we grow and scale
that becomes totally possible.

653
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:29,400
This is the typical really
humbling conversation.

654
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,100
I have with Founders a lot of
the time which appeal is an

655
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:33,199
awesome idea.
But you know what?

656
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,199
We got to focus.
Yeah.

657
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,100
Which is so true.
That's why it's like okay, stick

658
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:41,000
this one in number 37.
On the backlog.

659
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,100
Yeah.
Yeah, it's all there.

660
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,699
It's all there.
I've gone through numerous

661
00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:48,699
things in my mind and yeah
there's huge potential there but

662
00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:51,199
yeah the starting point three
markets.

663
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,400
Keep very good, very good.
No I get that.

664
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,300
The so yeah three markets
getting liquidity.

665
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:58,200
Going Laura from a product
perspective.

666
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,100
Dave, and the user perspective,
what is the biggest objective

667
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:03,800
for 2022 and hands?
Possibly the biggest challenge

668
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,400
right now to get that done.
Get the initial 1,000 users.

669
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,000
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, that's it.

670
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,000
That's that's the story because
it grows exponentially from

671
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,600
there because if 1000 people
really love your product then

672
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,500
you are, you know that you're
able to scale it so true, so

673
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:25,100
true.
I mean Lori, you're so right,

674
00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:27,900
it's about getting people who
absolutely love your product.

675
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:30,400
Want to use it all the time.
We want to tell that people

676
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:31,800
about it, you know?
Yeah.

677
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Because that's was also how I
saw that surface current grow at

678
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,500
the beginning because when you
are starting out you don't want

679
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,200
to overuse so much money for
marketing purposes, it because

680
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,300
you're still focused on building
the product.

681
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:51,000
If you're doing a big marketing
before having a product that's

682
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,600
good enough then then I think
it's gonna fail but that's just

683
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,600
my opinion.
Maybe people I just use

684
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:59,200
marketing.
Much as they can.

685
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,900
But if it grows in a natural way
where people are recommending

686
00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:08,200
your product, and they are
friends are also using it, it's

687
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:15,100
more stable structure to build
forward, rather than having huge

688
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:20,300
marketing, a lot of new users.
But also they might not stayed

689
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,500
and not use it.
And if you have one person who

690
00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:28,100
came in quite early with your
product, you have also a loyal

691
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,000
Hello, oil Trend who will use
your product and also when you

692
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,100
have a contact with the users
and you reaching out to hear

693
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:39,900
their perspective and you
implement, you, you make the

694
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:44,800
product better based on their
opinions, they feel the product

695
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,000
is right for them, they feel
better connection with the whole

696
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,000
brand and the product.
So, also a way of the

697
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,300
centralizing is not only the
centralizing violence in the

698
00:36:55,308 --> 00:36:59,900
product is the centralizing, the
way, the Product gets built.

699
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:05,400
Obviously as we are overlooking,
the product deciding some things

700
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,700
but also giving it to other
people to decide, which is the

701
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,900
next big feature that we're
going to implement which is the

702
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:16,800
next Market or sports that we
want to have in the app and when

703
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,200
most of the users want, I don't
know.

704
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,000
Baseball before we go do that.
Yeah, no that's feels very much

705
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,300
like a dow.
So live Downs that alive dual

706
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:28,100
Christmas.
I do own life.

707
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,900
Killed our tell.
So, yeah, the good good.

708
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,500
That's awesome.
Listen, I'd it's, you know, one

709
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:39,900
of the things that I always
think about when I'm when I'm

710
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:43,400
doing these conversations is
that, you know, they were at a

711
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,400
certain point in time with any
of the founders that we talked

712
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,100
to on this podcast.
And that there is so much energy

713
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:53,300
and enthusiasm and optimism and
expectation here as to where we

714
00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:57,500
all go next and given given the
chat we had today, I'm even more

715
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:59,800
fueled with that.
So with that, I'd like to move

716
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,200
to the last question that we
asked everybody on this podcast

717
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,800
which is what is one thing that
we wouldn't expect to know about

718
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,600
you and will we could start with
you.

719
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:09,900
Yeah.
I think Hugh thought I was going

720
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:12,200
to be shorter.
He's like God, you look a lot

721
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,900
taller in real life than you do
and zoom.

722
00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:17,000
So maybe a huge Pacific on
people on the program as well.

723
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,400
When I kind of said that I'm
more of an introvert.

724
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,500
People are like, no way.
Never have guessed that.

725
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:24,100
So that's maybe another one
because I'm quite, so sure, but

726
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,500
definitely love the, the more
introverted kind of Lifestyle,

727
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:29,700
but yeah.
I guess the fun fact about me is

728
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:32,200
that I collect Flags.
Yeah, every country I go to, I

729
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,300
pick up whether it's a small,
tiny little one or a full-size

730
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,900
one, not sure where I kind of
came from, but just love the

731
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:44,700
idea of flags and it resonating.
So the Stars and Stripes, you

732
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:46,200
know, what does that work in
you?

733
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,300
And every time for the July, you
know, everyone's got their stars

734
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:51,100
and stripes and the same for
every country.

735
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:53,500
You know, there's such passion
and emotion, that could be put

736
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,100
into a rectangle of three
different colors.

737
00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:58,100
You know, the Holy Wars are
fought.

738
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,100
Over us and I just find it
fascinating.

739
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:03,300
So, yeah, Regional Flags
national flags.

740
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,000
Yeah, I think there are three
amazing, that's amazing.

741
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,800
We were my wife and I, when we
were traveling, we would buy a

742
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,300
fridge magnet, and every single
country.

743
00:39:10,900 --> 00:39:12,900
And then we got our kitchen
redone.

744
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:19,100
The front panel of our fridge is
what the more fridge magnets.

745
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:21,800
So signature feature of a good
place to put all your flags.

746
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,100
Well yes oh yeah I didn't factor
in where I was going to store

747
00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:27,600
them or we're going to put them.
So they're all just kind of like

748
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,200
a full day.
It and stuff in the back,

749
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,900
awesome drawer.
That's great Laura.

750
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:34,600
What about you?
Which one thing people wouldn't

751
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,900
expect to know about you.
That's my big wish is to be part

752
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:42,700
of the rock band.
All right.

753
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:47,300
Yeah yeah, yeah, since I was a
kid but never happened and I

754
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:51,300
don't know if it happens when
I'm 80, I'm still happy.

755
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:54,200
All right, well we're gonna get
you pretty close because demo

756
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,300
day for the launch pool, where
three techstars accelerator Be

757
00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:02,000
at the button factory in Dublin,
which is a great venue where

758
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,300
I've seen many a gig.
So we're getting, you're pretty

759
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:07,300
close to that.
But we'll see if we need to get

760
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:10,300
my kids down with their guitars
because they're much better at

761
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:12,100
it than me.
But you're more of a singer.

762
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:17,300
Or are you a instrument player?
Yeah, I play the guitar but not

763
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:18,900
well enough.
Okay.

764
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:20,600
All right, we can all work on it
together.

765
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:25,000
So we'll listen folks,
absolutely loved talking to the

766
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,500
two of you today in depth about
live dual.

767
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,900
And I learned something in every
conversation.

768
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:31,000
So thank you.
Is awesome.

769
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,600
To have you both on the show and
I know that I'll be talking to

770
00:40:33,607 --> 00:40:36,500
you later today.
Cheers, thanks a million for

771
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:38,300
having this piece.
Thank you.

772
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,700
That does it for this week,
folks, thanks to Villa Laura for

773
00:40:47,700 --> 00:40:49,600
opening up their minds.
Help us figure out why they do

774
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,200
what they do link to get in
touch with Will endure and learn

775
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,000
more about live.
Dual are in the show notes on

776
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,900
our website money, never sleeps,
that IE.

777
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,800
So check us out online.
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy,

778
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,400
from create sound for mixing and
editing.

779
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,300
This episode Conan is an
excellent medium and to get in

780
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,100
touch with when you're thinking
about launching your own

781
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:07,800
podcast.
As for me, I'm an early stage,

782
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,400
startup investor and advisor
focused on where fintech meets

783
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,100
crypto and crypto meets web 3.
If you'd like to talk to me

784
00:41:13,107 --> 00:41:15,000
about your business, drop me a
line on info.

785
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,100
Money never sleeps that.
I finally till next time.

786
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:19,400
Thanks for listening.
See you