186: Money Maker | Eczodex | Bridging TradFi to DeFi | Michael Quartey and Lukas Bruell

1
00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:13,900
Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend,
and this is money, never sleeps.

2
00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:15,700
We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, and at the

3
00:00:15,707 --> 00:00:18,500
crossover of startups,
Enterprise Finance, technology

4
00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:20,300
and Life.
As We Know It, This episode of

5
00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:22,800
money, never sleeps is sponsored
by Phillip Lee one of Ireland's

6
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,500
fastest growing corporate law
firms and expert advisors at the

7
00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:28,000
heart of the Dublin in London,
start-up fintech in crypto

8
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000
communities on the show this
week.

9
00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:32,700
Week, we've got.
Hello, I'm Michael corty founder

10
00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,900
and CEO of exid X, and I'm Lucas
Grill.

11
00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:40,800
And I'm the co-founder of X text
X attacks are enabling investors

12
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,300
to unlock more returns with
their existing Investments

13
00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:47,100
through defy or decentralized
Finance exit, X or the ninth

14
00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:49,200
founding team for me.
The launch pool with three

15
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,700
textures, accelerator class of
2020 to that we got on the show

16
00:00:52,700 --> 00:00:55,700
in the lead into demo, Day on
June 30th in this episode.

17
00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:58,300
I want, it's Gerald and I talked
to Michael and Lucas about how

18
00:00:58,300 --> 00:01:00,000
their backgrounds uniquely
prepared.

19
00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:03,400
Them to bring X at X to life,
how x and x are bridging

20
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,800
real-world assets.
And to defy what the opportunity

21
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,000
set looks like.
What enabling yield enhancement

22
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,100
strategies to real-world
investors and the crossover

23
00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:14,600
between web 3 and violin
virtuosos.

24
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,800
All right here on money.
Never sleeps.

25
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,300
Geysers Blood on the streets.
The last couple of days in

26
00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:27,700
crypto, don't you think?
Yeah, tell me about it.

27
00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:32,000
Yeah it awful times but I'm sure
we're going to learn from from

28
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,700
from the lessons at the moment
and recover and build back

29
00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:37,900
better.
That's my view on it looking for

30
00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:39,600
the upside.
Yeah, absolutely.

31
00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,500
I'm kind of feel like the bank,
this guy's Express themselves

32
00:01:42,500 --> 00:01:44,800
quite well, on this emergency
bear Market episode.

33
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,400
They did earlier this week.
That was the long-term sign of

34
00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:54,100
Success of crypto is not prices,
it's time, right?

35
00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,200
And are we still here?
Are we still existing, are we

36
00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,000
still progressing that, you
know, the shorter term Market

37
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,000
Cycles driven by all sorts of
unique situations that were in

38
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,800
from a macro perspective right
now it's just completely

39
00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,500
unprecedented, we never seen
this before.

40
00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,600
I mean, just understanding where
the real value is that there's a

41
00:02:13,608 --> 00:02:17,200
lot of value that crypto brings
and its potential to

42
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,600
revolutionize many Industries
and And taking that long term

43
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:21,400
view.
Yes.

44
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,400
Then you're 100% right that
whatever short-term gyrations,

45
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,700
we're experiencing in the market
right now in the grand scheme of

46
00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:33,200
things, it will not stop us from
from achieving the disruption

47
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,700
that blockchain definitely has
potential to do in Denver.

48
00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:38,500
All right.
Cool.

49
00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:41,000
Listen guys, why don't we just
jump right in and get started?

50
00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:43,600
And where I like to start is
with your backstory Michael and

51
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,900
how you got to this point may
bring us up to speed with what

52
00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:48,700
got you to the point of finding
X attacks.

53
00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:51,000
Well, how much time have I got
Pete?

54
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,900
Yeah, well I could take the
whole you're going to have to

55
00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:57,700
cut me short on that one, but
now I'll try and be as brief as

56
00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:00,000
possible.
So, I mean, where should I

57
00:03:00,008 --> 00:03:02,600
start?
So, born and bred in London to

58
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,000
Immigrant parents, really good,
stable, family upbringing in

59
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,900
which allow me to navigate
school and uni.

60
00:03:08,900 --> 00:03:12,800
And certainly my first graduate
job with CSC Financial Services,

61
00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,100
which is probably the best place
to start.

62
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:22,000
So yeah, I joined CSC.
Each now there now dxc back in

63
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,000
the late 90s, it was the time of
the internet.

64
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,100
Boom.
I always as an entrepreneur at

65
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,800
heart.
I always had this ambition of

66
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,900
not wanted to try to make my way
up the corporate ladder.

67
00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:36,800
I always wanted to do something.
So even a year or couple of

68
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,000
years into to my graduate job, I
was thinking of ways in which to

69
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,300
build a business at the time
than an e-commerce startup

70
00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:45,700
Venture was what I was working
on with my brother and

71
00:03:45,700 --> 00:03:51,000
similarly, to now and Market
crashed that Had the.com bust

72
00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:54,000
and perhaps we weren't as far as
vast as we are.

73
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,100
Let's say with respect to X at
X.

74
00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:59,500
So at the time, my brother and I
decided to stop but that led me

75
00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:02,200
into Contracting.
I built on the skills.

76
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,300
I had learned through is through
CSC to work for over 20 plus

77
00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:08,900
years in the financial services
space.

78
00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:13,200
And that really is one of the
drivers for for exid exes, the

79
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,700
experience that I gained working
in financial services and

80
00:04:16,700 --> 00:04:20,700
understanding later on On, it
didn't happen immediately but

81
00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:24,000
there was an epiphany where I
realized once I understood what

82
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,700
was going on with decentralized
Finance, how much better the

83
00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:30,200
infrastructure could be?
How much more efficiently things

84
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,300
could run using all of the
innovation of blockchain

85
00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:37,000
technology and decentralized
finance which is building on top

86
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,500
of it.
So that's one of the the sources

87
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,700
of inspiration behind exit X and
the other one is a little bit

88
00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:44,600
more personal.
The other one is actually just

89
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,400
down to my own inadequacies as a
financial investor.

90
00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:53,500
Specifically, with with stocks
and over the years, I've

91
00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:57,600
experienced the highs and lows
of investing and that probably

92
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:04,100
was another spark behind this
idea with respect to trying to

93
00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:09,000
find out if there was a better
way to invest a better way to

94
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,200
invest in products with more
predictable, return patterns.

95
00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:16,100
And that was the origin story of
the specific concept that I

96
00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:20,700
started with exid X.
Once I That within the crypto,

97
00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:24,400
there were many projects also,
trying to address similar issues

98
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,500
around risk and volatility.
In their markets, I started

99
00:05:28,500 --> 00:05:32,400
reading their project papers and
then realized, oh, not only are.

100
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,400
There are other people trying to
solve similar problems, but

101
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,600
there's all this amazing
Innovation going on.

102
00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:39,600
Why not?
Look at this space more closely

103
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,000
and try to build something here.
So that's the backstory behind X

104
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,200
of X and certainly how I pitched
it to Lucas.

105
00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:51,200
What I love about this, That
startup Founders are so.

106
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,400
Unique that what you set out to
do is just an output of you as

107
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,200
an individual, looking your
background, Michael and seeing

108
00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,800
how many complicated technical
change projects, you went

109
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,200
through over those 20 years.
That repetition that you've gone

110
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,100
through.
If figuring out really hard

111
00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,700
problems, really hard, technical
problems and financial markets

112
00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:11,500
and insurance, and doing that
alongside your own investment

113
00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:12,900
Journey.
It just seems like it's a

114
00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:15,200
perfect recipe for what you guys
are setting out to do with X at

115
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,300
X.
My read into that properly.

116
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,100
Yeah, that definitely.
Lee definitely paid some

117
00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:23,300
couldn't agree more and just one
drawn point on that.

118
00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:26,400
Certainly over the years that
complexity has just got

119
00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:29,400
increased and increased in
traditional finance and I

120
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,600
certainly feel that there's so
much opportunity to do it better

121
00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:35,700
in this new world or be it that
it comes with its own

122
00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:38,400
challenges, which will touch on
shortly, Gadget, and Lucas,

123
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,700
we're going to move over to you.
It was awesome that you and I

124
00:06:40,707 --> 00:06:43,600
met at the defy live conference
in London, after that intro,

125
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,200
from Christian Davy shadowed
Christian, he's great guy.

126
00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:49,600
So, maybe tell us how you got to
that point of meeting me that

127
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,500
day at defy live.
At London, obviously haven't got

128
00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,100
together with Michael and number
of months back before that.

129
00:06:55,700 --> 00:06:58,600
Yeah, sure, absolutely.
So, I mean, my story starts in

130
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,600
Vienna, actually, I grew up in
Austria was very lucky to grow

131
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,800
up in a city with, you know,
lots of opportunities.

132
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,400
Beautiful city, went to high
school, played some tennis B,

133
00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:12,200
late some violence, or threat of
different things, but kind of

134
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,200
was convinced that it's time to
leave after school with 1819

135
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:20,300
around and Yeah, headed to the
UK, hated the UK to stop my

136
00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:23,200
studies over there.
The last five years, I've got

137
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,000
the opportunity to really study
a broad range of degrees.

138
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,200
I sort of Finance but then also
get low analytics business.

139
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,000
So went to universities
including Cambridge Imperial

140
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,800
College in London, worry
University and people o school.

141
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,400
But next to University, I I also
started to experiment experiment

142
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,500
a bit with traditional industry.
So I interned Investment Banking

143
00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:46,300
it low and Consulting.
So what's with Crispy squabble

144
00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,400
will speak.
The kings of profile and also

145
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,000
with Lickin Watkins, but also
then realized, that my

146
00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:55,200
personality is is all about
entrepreneurship.

147
00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,600
I want to build, you know,
Ventures and being my first

148
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,600
experience by setting up.
A research Mentor, students

149
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,300
community over to side with my
roommates first roommate at

150
00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:09,000
University, which basically
helps students to understand

151
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,300
what's happening in French
markets.

152
00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:13,200
Particularly Emily private
Equity because we had, we

153
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,800
realize there's a big problem
for students to be understand

154
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:19,700
And why deals are happening,
what the synergies are, what the

155
00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:23,600
risks and uncertainties appeals
are and yeah better than you

156
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,100
know finding that as a business
we just literally came to solve

157
00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:31,400
a problem and we did that by
concisely publishing reports

158
00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:35,100
about those fields and found a
lot of people that found that

159
00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:38,600
really interesting helpful and
that was the first time where I

160
00:08:38,608 --> 00:08:40,799
realized there is incredible
opportunity to solve problems

161
00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:42,799
out there and nothing more
exciting doing that.

162
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,700
So that kind of then let me to
realize, I want to be an

163
00:08:46,700 --> 00:08:51,100
entrepreneur ship for sure.
I got to Cambridge and when I

164
00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:54,700
got to Cambridge I realized the
incredibly powerful leader of

165
00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:58,700
crypto to an even greater level.
I mean, I was interested in it

166
00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:00,600
for a while.
I was reading about it.

167
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,800
I was resting bit in it, but
I'll certainly wasn't involved

168
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,200
in a venture building crypto.
But then yeah, I'm at my pool.

169
00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:11,900
You know, he had an initial
draft of equip, the solution.

170
00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:15,100
I made a lots of people in the
blockchain club in Cambridge.

171
00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:18,100
And that's when I started to dig
deeper and deeper ended up in a

172
00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:21,000
rabbit hole and yeah, finally
ended up in his face full time

173
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,200
now.
So yeah, we kind of started a

174
00:09:23,208 --> 00:09:26,600
wolf more traditional industry
experiences but then move closer

175
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,800
and closer to.
He not good entrepreneurship

176
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:30,100
journey and that's where we're
at now.

177
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,000
Yeah, it's fascinating seem like
really quickly got quite a

178
00:09:34,008 --> 00:09:37,100
number of immersive experiences
that have told the enriched your

179
00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:38,100
view of the world.
Old.

180
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,700
Yeah, I mean, I appreciate it.
I mean, I was just really trying

181
00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:43,200
to get experience in as many
fields as possible.

182
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,100
I think the role nowadays is
more complicated than anytime

183
00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:48,000
before.
I think it's all about you know

184
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,000
having a good understanding of
different fields, connecting the

185
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,300
dots and yeah having a diverse
background of skills.

186
00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,300
Ultimately and that's that was
my main focus.

187
00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:01,700
That was my main goal.
I think I did a decent job in

188
00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:04,800
doing that based on industry
experiences but also the grease

189
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,500
but now it's really all about
bringing it all together and

190
00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:10,400
leave Reaching those experiences
skills to build the, a great

191
00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,300
business, and I think we all do
exactly that.

192
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,100
We'll listen, let's shift gears
a little bit now and talk about

193
00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:19,400
X at X tell us where you got 2
of X at x.

194
00:10:19,700 --> 00:10:23,300
What it is, why it's Unique, why
it makes so much sense of the

195
00:10:23,300 --> 00:10:25,100
two of you to be working on this
right now.

196
00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:29,500
Yeah, I'll go and jump in Lucas
as well with, if your views on

197
00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:32,700
its butt next X.
I mean, as, you know, P we came

198
00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:36,400
in to textiles all about
building the next generation of

199
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,400
financial products.
And leveraging or that, that

200
00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:43,500
exciting innovation in the defy
space to build on top of that

201
00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:46,200
and create products that
ultimately, in use the commode

202
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,000
service, the mass market.
And I think we're still very

203
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,200
much staying true to that that
General Vision.

204
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,100
But certainly one one lesson
learned coming into textiles,

205
00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:59,500
was that while we had spent a
lot of time really working on

206
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:02,800
product Concepts and designs,
and kind of locking ourselves in

207
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,000
the room and focusing primarily
on what we could offer, what

208
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,400
sort of products we could build.
Hadn't done enough of of sort of

209
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,700
customer Discovery and really
getting out there and talking to

210
00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:16,900
as many people as possible about
what they oppress and needs are.

211
00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:21,700
And what would be an ideal first
product for, for our customer

212
00:11:21,700 --> 00:11:23,500
base.
So something we certainly have

213
00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:26,300
done really well on textiles.
And we've learned a lot along

214
00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,200
the way talking to, as many
people as possible to, really

215
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,700
refine our offering.
And as such now what we've

216
00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,100
certainly realize is one of the
biggest pain points is that

217
00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:38,200
there is this sort of separation
between the Worlds of

218
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,100
traditional finance and
decentralized finance and

219
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,300
completely different worlds.
And dare, I say this present

220
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:48,500
point in time, different
mindsets with both worlds, not

221
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:52,300
really sort of connecting to
each other and ultimately, that

222
00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:55,400
is where the value-add can come
from building that bridge

223
00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,800
between between the two worlds
and in doing so, creating

224
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,900
products that deliver real value
leverage in both that the best

225
00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:07,100
of traditional finance and
decentralized finance.

226
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,500
So That is what we're looking to
do right now.

227
00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:13,500
We have taken the lessons from
and the feedback from our

228
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,900
customer Discovery sessions.
We are looking to build a

229
00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:20,600
product that will allow
customers to leverage their

230
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:22,700
traditional financial
investments.

231
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,800
Be it stocks ETFs bonds, what
will or whatever?

232
00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:30,000
And to leverage those
Investments to then get into the

233
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,300
world of defy without having to
spend additional cash in doing

234
00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:36,200
so they can use those
Investments, as collateral and

235
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,500
thereafter.
We will Execute strategies on

236
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:42,400
behalf of our customers range
from sort of low risk, medium

237
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,600
risk all the way up to high risk
strategies where they can

238
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,700
benefit from all the yield
enhancing opportunities that are

239
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,600
now available in defy.
So, that is the broad brush

240
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,600
idea.
I'll pause there for such that

241
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,500
Lucas.
You can jump in and, and put

242
00:12:57,500 --> 00:12:59,700
your spin on it on it as well.
Yeah, no.

243
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:01,500
I think you did it.
You did a great job.

244
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:04,500
I mean, we just explore that.
In a lot of detail.

245
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:07,600
We had conversations with pretty
much almost fruit Institution.

246
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:11,300
Ranging from smaller, family
offices, to some of the biggest

247
00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:16,600
financial service companies in
the world and it just was pretty

248
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,400
clear pattern after well to see
that this bridge doesn't exist,

249
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,400
right?
And that is a problematic thing

250
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,200
for particularly those more
traditional family offers they

251
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,900
used to traditional financial
instruments and yeah that's

252
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:35,100
that's what we get more and more
convinced that there is a great

253
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:37,600
opportunity to tap into that and
yeah that's it.

254
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,800
That's what led us to the
current product design.

255
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,300
I also think that particularly
looking at the market right now

256
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:49,200
where you can borrow cash with
crypto for the cannot bar crypto

257
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:53,300
with all those trillions of
traditional Financial assets.

258
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,300
That there is a massive
opportunity to tap into that

259
00:13:56,300 --> 00:13:58,400
space.
And that's where we, you know,

260
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,100
it's not, it's going, but when
did that direction afterwards?

261
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:03,800
And guys, it's great to hear
that because obviously, I met

262
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,700
you back to start of the
textures program and you were

263
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:09,100
one of the names of the men.
Repeat, after, you know, that I

264
00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:13,000
was particularly interested in
seeing how you kind of progress

265
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,500
through it.
Because my own view would be

266
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,700
that, you know, obviously Peters
far deeper down the rabbit hole

267
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:22,500
on web 3 then I would be and I'm
somewhat of a skeptic to some

268
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,900
degree but mainly because I
think it's a bit too Innovative

269
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,000
currently and there needs to be
that Gap.

270
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,400
There's people who are willing
or interested in kind of, you

271
00:14:31,408 --> 00:14:33,900
know, making the jump across.
But that, you know, the pathway

272
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,000
needs to be, there needs to be
something in the middle that

273
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,600
allows me to continue to
operate.

274
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,800
A date with my existing kind of
Investment Portfolio, whatever,

275
00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:45,400
and allow me to Dan kind of dip
into defy space and a crypto

276
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,300
World in a more kind of
structured way.

277
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,300
Let's go.
It's great to see that, that's

278
00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:52,700
kind of where things have ended
up versus when we talked even.

279
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:54,400
I don't know how many weeks ago
was back in April.

280
00:14:54,400 --> 00:15:00,400
I think it was feels like
donkeys ago, but now certainly

281
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,600
and and that certainly was the
sentiment from a lot of the

282
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,300
discussions.
And and one other thing is what

283
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:09,600
we've learned as well is A lot
of people are busy, they've got

284
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,400
their everyday lives to deal
with, you know, raising the kids

285
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,600
paying a mortgage working full
time and whatever else they've

286
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,100
got going on.
So as much as they might be

287
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,900
interested in this exciting new
world, it's just impossible to

288
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:25,700
keep up to date with the pace of
innovation and and that even

289
00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:29,700
whittles down to understanding
why there are additional yield

290
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:33,000
enhancing opportunities that
defy offers over traditional

291
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,600
Finance, so it's really kind of
with that mindset.

292
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:41,400
In sort of those pain points and
shape in a product around it.

293
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,800
That is really the journey we've
been on and how we've settled on

294
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,800
this value.
Proposition at this point in

295
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:52,000
time.
Hey everyone, this is p.

296
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:53,600
Let me tell you about the folks
at Phillip.

297
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,800
Lee few years ago is that my
first Venture Capital industry

298
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,400
dinner in Dublin and honestly I
felt a bit lost I bumped into

299
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,500
Android Cazale.
One of the partners at Phillip

300
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,900
Lee.
He bought me a pint introduced

301
00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:08,000
me to the team and they took me
under their wing that at take

302
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,000
you under their wing approach
has been what I've heard

303
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,900
consistently from fintech.
And crypto startups who I know

304
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,900
have worked with Phillip Lee in
Dublin and London to help them

305
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:18,200
wrap the right legal framework
around their business,

306
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,200
fundraising and Regulatory
needs, and I can't recommend

307
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,200
them enough.
Get in touch with a team at

308
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,600
Phillip Lee dot IE or on money,
never sleeps.

309
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,800
That IE /.
Phillip Lee to learn more.

310
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,800
I'm glad you guys got to this
point because I had a bunch of

311
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,100
experience in the past and
securities lending, or at least

312
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:41,000
in the framework Securities
lending in that, or you got a

313
00:16:41,008 --> 00:16:42,900
big pension fund that is holding
assets.

314
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,400
They're able to reuse those
assets or lend them to

315
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,900
investment Banks to other
lending programs.

316
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:53,700
And then they generate yield off
of those inventory of assets,

317
00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:56,400
but that's only really been
available to the big Pension

318
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,400
funds, and big institutional,
mutual funds.

319
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,800
It's really costly to put that
type of program in place for

320
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,700
smaller.
Funds wealth affluent investors,

321
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:06,500
family offices.
Whatever that only have much

322
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,500
smaller inventory of assets.
Why can't we make that available

323
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:11,599
for others?
You know, when it's complicated.

324
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,200
So even in my 401k that I still
have, I've got assets.

325
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,200
I'm holding for the long term,
I'm not putting them to work.

326
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,200
Would it be possible to actually
earn further yield on those?

327
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:24,599
And I think that, you know, it's
very much needed in the world.

328
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,400
Like you said, it's great case
study for bring together,

329
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,500
traditional finance and the
mechanisms that I just talk

330
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:32,500
through and the opportunities to
actually generate yield.

331
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:35,800
Those assets the defy market.
So you guys definitely on the

332
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,900
right track here.
Yeah, thanks Pete.

333
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:41,200
So with all that in mind, what's
the longer-term vision?

334
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:43,700
Right?
How big can this get, you know,

335
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:46,700
what does it look like when
you've got say, a critical mass

336
00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:50,200
of individuals or institutions
or family offices?

337
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:53,300
That are leveraging X attacks,
generate more yield on their

338
00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:56,800
Investments through defy.
What other Innovations does,

339
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,500
this open up?
Where else can I go?

340
00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:03,000
Yeah, it might sound cliché, but
I really think Think that the

341
00:18:03,008 --> 00:18:06,700
sky's the limit purely when you
look at the size of the markets

342
00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,400
that we're talking about.
So defy has done phenomenally

343
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,600
well, it's grown to around 140
billion dollars as in Market

344
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,000
size and literally a few years,
but that's just the pin drop

345
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:22,700
when you compare it to to the
size of traditional finance and

346
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:27,400
markets in, in stocks, in ETFs
in mutual, fund in the funds,

347
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,300
Pension funds, you name it.
So there's going to be a Tipping

348
00:18:31,300 --> 00:18:34,800
Point where You build sort of
products like this, the sort of

349
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,100
bridge products.
As I went, as you rightly said,

350
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,200
that can bring those two worlds
together, they will ultimately

351
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,000
be a Tipping Point where that
Capital starts to flow in.

352
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,300
And so really, we're talking
about trillion dollar markets in

353
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:50,100
years to come.
It's how big?

354
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,000
This could be.
So trillion dollars worth of

355
00:18:52,008 --> 00:18:55,800
capital from institutions, but
of course, individuals as well.

356
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,400
Consumers opening up the
opportunity for them to leverage

357
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,000
their Investments.
Certainly in all the

358
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,700
conversations, we've held them.
There's a high desirability for

359
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,600
this type of product, people
seem to get it, and they can see

360
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,700
the benefits of putting putting
their assets to work so.

361
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:16,200
Yeah, in a nutshell, I really
think there is a huge upside

362
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,200
huge value add for customers,
and that obviously translates to

363
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,500
then, really big Market size and
potential Market in the future.

364
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:26,900
Yeah, I'm with you, you know,
and I was thinking about the

365
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:29,400
other side of it, right?
We heard the news about Celsius

366
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,900
in the last couple of days,
right?

367
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,900
On Archer.
If you saw the Use.

368
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,500
But yep.
Following the bad news.

369
00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:39,600
Yeah well it feels like that's
all there is right now right?

370
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,100
So unless you think for the long
term and it's been it's just

371
00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,500
wonderful, good news.
So I read a little bit about

372
00:19:45,500 --> 00:19:48,300
Celsius this morning, I saw what
was going on and it all felt a

373
00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:51,200
little bit Lehman, Brothers, ish
to quote, someone on Twitter

374
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,700
with the ReUse and reuse and
reuse of assets over and over

375
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:56,800
again.
And there was some sentiment

376
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,900
that you shouldn't be able to do
that with crypto.

377
00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:01,900
But the reality is you can it's
just that the differences

378
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:06,000
between crypto and traditional
Finance with reuse of assets is

379
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,600
that it's traceable.
You could see based on assets

380
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,100
moving from one block chain to
the next on what's Happening.

381
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:13,800
So in looking at how you guys
are going to be doing this with

382
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,600
X at X and taking custody of
people's assets, you going to be

383
00:20:17,608 --> 00:20:19,700
holding them in custody and
leaving them there or you going

384
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,700
to be reusing them.
Now that So the plan is

385
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,600
certainly with the traditional
assets, hold them in custody and

386
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,800
then basically using the
Innovation and defy create

387
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,100
assets that we can then leverage
in defy, but now it's certainly

388
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,200
one.
There are lessons to be learned

389
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:39,000
and we are learning every day
around you know the potential

390
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,000
pitfalls of some of the business
models that are out there.

391
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,300
There is no doubt that while
there's all this amazing

392
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:48,700
Innovation there are also some
experimental business models

393
00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,300
that may not be sustainable and
the trick is to learn as much as

394
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:55,900
possible about that and avoid
that path because our vision is

395
00:20:55,900 --> 00:21:00,300
genuinely to deliver a
sustainable business that

396
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,400
creates real value in a long
run.

397
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,900
And that has a solid foundation
and such that it will not crash

398
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:09,400
overnight in the macro downturn.
So yeah that there are lessons

399
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,800
to be learned and I think Lucas
you've certainly done a lot of

400
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,000
reading as well on with respect
to two recent events so I'll let

401
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000
you have your say here as well.
Yeah I know I mean I could not

402
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,900
see better than you did the
think particularly markets like

403
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:25,400
this at the moment you realized
that we were looking for the for

404
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,400
the real Bali, right?
Still looking for opportunities

405
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,800
that are robust against you know
once in our makes and against

406
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,200
models that are out McLean not,
not sustainable, subjected to

407
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,200
massive shocks for sure their
bull markets in the bear

408
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,000
markets.
At that has always been the case

409
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,300
in the continue to be the case
but, you know, people are

410
00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:45,900
looking for trusted looking for
credibility, they looking for a

411
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,000
tation and I think there is a
great opportunity, particularly

412
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,100
in crypto, the build adventure
around those vans.

413
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:56,100
And that's why, you know, around
all these great product design

414
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,100
sessions for Mike and I had our
key, Focus always has been to

415
00:21:59,108 --> 00:22:02,200
create something around those
values that popped up over and

416
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,300
over again.
Again particular over the last

417
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:06,600
couple of weeks with
institutional Esters as much as

418
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,200
food for retail investors.
Yeah, we do strongly believe

419
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,900
that it's not just about the
product.

420
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:14,000
It's about what the product
wants to express.

421
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,500
What he wants to sold, and that
obviously includes such as some

422
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,300
fancy product designs that are
stable.

423
00:22:19,300 --> 00:22:22,800
But it also very much is about
security credibility, trust

424
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,800
reputation, and all of those
things are here, looking up.

425
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,500
Exactly in this market, it
becomes more apparent power

426
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:33,400
important.
That actually, this Guys, what

427
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,700
do you say?
Would be the biggest challenges

428
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,800
in the next kind of, let's say
12 to 18 months as you look to

429
00:22:37,808 --> 00:22:40,900
scale the business.
Well, sadly, I mean given recent

430
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:44,500
macro events that that's, you
know, we've the market downturn.

431
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,700
It is going to be a lot harder.
Despite all the Innovation and

432
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:52,900
that new projects can bring to
raise funding in this

433
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:54,300
environment.
We're fully aware of that.

434
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:58,200
We believe we've got a fantastic
proposition so we're very

435
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,800
confident there.
But those conversations that

436
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,400
would have happened a lot
faster.

437
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:04,800
They're random decisions made a
lot quicker.

438
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,900
Probably going to take a little
bit longer now.

439
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,300
So we're we're aware of that
given given the current micro

440
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:12,600
climates at the moment next to
that.

441
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,800
Obviously, that the legal /
regulatory landscape for this

442
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,400
field is a Minefield.
We are working very closely with

443
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,100
our lawyers to navigate this
path and we do internally have a

444
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,300
reasonably good understanding of
the complexity.

445
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:31,400
So we're pretty confident there.
But nevertheless, it's a

446
00:23:31,408 --> 00:23:35,300
fast-moving.
Case different proposals in

447
00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:37,300
different markets.
So we're going to have to keep

448
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:41,300
tabs not just in Europe which is
where we are intending to start.

449
00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:45,000
But certainly the US market in
particular also Asia those

450
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,800
markets.
We just need to keep tabs with

451
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,800
what's going on and the change
in legal and Regulatory climate.

452
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,400
So for me, those are the
ultimately the biggest

453
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,600
challenges that we want need to
address in the near future.

454
00:23:56,100 --> 00:23:58,500
Yeah, I agree with that, but I
think, at the same time, you

455
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,400
know, we look look at the
markets, a positively, it's all

456
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,900
about the long run.
And if you look at the, the last

457
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:08,400
crisis, biggest bigger crisis of
the last centuries, you will

458
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,400
find that some of the most
valuable companies were built in

459
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,500
Bear markets, where it was time
to build.

460
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,700
And I just see that as a
repetition of that, there are

461
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,200
still a lot of capital out there
that needs to be deployed.

462
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,100
Obviously, it will be more
diligence, the capitalist Pig

463
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:24,000
deploying projects of great real
value.

464
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,200
The good thing is that's exactly
what we do.

465
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,000
And from that perspective I'm
looking at it, very positively

466
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,400
to build Now, to create get a
great team around It and to make

467
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,500
sure, you know, we will execute
on that.

468
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,200
And then when the time is,
right, and it will be right

469
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,600
again, you know, then then then
many people out there will

470
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,800
realize the value.
That was great over the few

471
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,700
months of the bear markets,
maybe more than females,

472
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,800
whatever.
What matters is the badly grade

473
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,900
and that's what we certainly do.
Yeah exactly.

474
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:55,800
You just don't know, I mean the
bear Market is the bear market

475
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,500
and people are saying build the
dip but little bit more than

476
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:01,800
that right now it's Build The
Bear right?

477
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,600
But You know, I see the focus
that you guys have that.

478
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,800
Listen, this is a plan, this is
what we're going to build.

479
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,000
This is what we're going to
achieve with.

480
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,400
It is how much money we need
for, you know, regardless of

481
00:25:10,408 --> 00:25:12,600
what's going on in the market.
Will it be more difficult to get

482
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,700
funding?
Yeah, well, it will be, but it

483
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:16,600
depends really on the Angela
what you're building.

484
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,400
You're in grow seeds right now
and you're looking for a series

485
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,200
B or C Ricci.
Well, you know, you might have a

486
00:25:21,208 --> 00:25:24,900
little bit of trouble given that
this is seed stage that you're

487
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:27,300
going for, like you said, Lucas,
there are plenty of funds with

488
00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,200
capital to deploy.
It's finding the right ones to

489
00:25:30,208 --> 00:25:33,300
have the right conversations in
order to get this funded.

490
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:34,800
Yeah.
And just want to find a point

491
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,300
though.
I mean, I draw inspiration

492
00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,200
having experienced the.com bust
and looking at some of the

493
00:25:39,208 --> 00:25:43,200
Giants, the tech Giants That
Grew after the.com bubble, burst

494
00:25:43,300 --> 00:25:46,600
the YouTubes, the Facebook's the
Twitter's of this world, you

495
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,900
know, they all follow the after
the bubble burst.

496
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:52,400
So for me, I, you know, I draw
parallels to those times and I

497
00:25:52,408 --> 00:25:55,000
think we certainly have a
massive opportunity ahead of us.

498
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:57,200
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, you just kind of, put

499
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,400
your head down and build,
sometimes like you said,

500
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,300
Michael, some of the most
important.

501
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,100
Check some of the most important
businesses that enable

502
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,200
information flow around the
world.

503
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,900
Right now.
The internet in general came out

504
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:13,300
of the.com burst and people just
putting their ideas in motion

505
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:15,700
and building.
So with that Owen to want to

506
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:19,000
take us into the final question
that we asked everybody on this

507
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,200
podcast.
Yes.

508
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,700
Absolutely guys, it's been a
pleasure actually chatting away

509
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:24,900
and find out about how you've
been getting on the question.

510
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:27,500
I always love to ask at the end
is to tell us something people

511
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:28,700
wouldn't expect to know about
you.

512
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,200
That's a good one.
Oh that's the hardest question

513
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,600
but I think yeah, we did discuss
this beforehand so we both play

514
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,600
the violin or played the violin
because obviously that that was

515
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,100
a number of years ago for me.
But yeah Lucas and I have done

516
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:47,800
that.
So that's something we have in

517
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,500
common.
That's probably unusual.

518
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,500
I would say the interesting
thing about that is that we

519
00:26:52,500 --> 00:26:55,800
actually found that out as part
of the the textures introduction

520
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,300
session so we never talked about
that before but then we Did the

521
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,500
painting?
We realized at the page that

522
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,500
seemed to be exactly the same
thing that we do.

523
00:27:04,508 --> 00:27:07,000
That's cool thing.
But I mean, it's again, it's a

524
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,700
great great experience to you,
to have a think, you know, when

525
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,400
it comes to teamwork
communication and just general

526
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,300
helper, there is there's nothing
that can beat playing in an

527
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:19,000
orchestra playing instruments.
So, and I think that is also

528
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,700
what we can see in working
together.

529
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:23,800
A lot of those values of love
that those experience that we've

530
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,000
gained many years ago, they
still here and have shaped us to

531
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,800
the people, we are now.
So, yeah.

532
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,100
Yeah.
It's a great experience to have

533
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:33,800
had and certainly share a lot of
atoms from that perspective and

534
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,600
what would be each of your
favorite songs to play on the

535
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,300
violin?
Oh that's a difficult one.

536
00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:42,100
Now, do we even know if they're
the same?

537
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,500
If your vote at the same level?
Is there a vast acreage grateful

538
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,900
quality?
Okay, that's pretty good.

539
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,900
But yeah, generally, a big fan
of of concertinas actually

540
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:57,800
wouldn't be able to pick one
because I love Many of them, I

541
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,800
would need to actually think
about which one will it take?

542
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,700
But a lot of the concertinas
Mozart concert inos, are a

543
00:28:02,708 --> 00:28:06,600
beautiful to play and are not
just complex but also can just

544
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,400
Express Sphinx that, you know,
difficult to express with

545
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,300
others.
So enjoy those the most but

546
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:13,800
equally hide and you know, was
supposed one of my favorites but

547
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,400
Mozart and Haydn probably would
pick.

548
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,500
Yeah.
Yeah.

549
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:19,100
Much.
Like now all that's it.

550
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:22,300
I mean, you remember the pieces?
I just remember the notes Lucas.

551
00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:26,300
That's as far as I can get a
bethoven piece.

552
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:30,800
I'm sure Sure, I played one of
those in my time, but yeah, it

553
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,300
was a great experience in it
being in an orchestra, as well,

554
00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:36,100
and having the opportunity to
play at the Royal Albert Hall.

555
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,000
That was my highlight.
Well, my eight-year career.

556
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,700
Yeah.
Wow, as a violinist, very good,

557
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,000
very good.
Well, you know, all eyes on you

558
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,800
guys.
So move ahead right?

559
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:48,700
Just like you're at the Royal
Albert Hall.

560
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,400
So lots more to come.
I expect listen, thank you guys

561
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,500
for coming down to the show.
Fantastic, thank you Pete, thank

562
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,900
you.
Thanks so much guys.

563
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:05,600
That does it for this week
folks.

564
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,100
Thanks to Michael and Lucas for
opening up their minds to help

565
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:10,800
us figure out why they do what
they do links to get in touch

566
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,500
with Michael and Lucas learn
more about X at X or in the show

567
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:15,800
notes on our website money,
never sleeps, that IE.

568
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:18,900
So check us out online.
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy,

569
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:20,600
from create sound for mixing and
editing.

570
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,700
This episode Conan is an
excellent medium and you get in

571
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:25,400
touch with when you're thinking
about launching your own

572
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,100
podcast.
As for me I'm an early stage

573
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:30,800
startup investor and Visor
focused on working techniques

574
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,600
crypto and crypto meets web 3,
you like to talk to me about

575
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,100
your business, drop me a line on
info at money, never sleeps that

576
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:39,200
I eat finally till next time.
Thanks for listening.

577
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:39,700
See you