191: MoneyTalks #53 | Ethereum Post-Merge l Revolut Pay Later Trial | a16z Funds Sequence and Sardine | Bored Yachts

0:11 Hey, there on Pete Townsend, and this is money, never sleeps. We look inside the minds of entrepreneurs, and at the crossover of startups, Enterprise Finance, technology and Life. As we know it in this episode, Owen, Fitzgerald, and I talk through what happened last week with the etherium merge and prove the steak, some pandas, and Goofy songs, and early morning Bank list live. Dream of the merge and critically a 99 percent. More energy efficient blockchain. We also look at the new revolute be npl product live in Ireland or buy now pay later and how an early morning test of the new product feature from revolute went for me, we also look at two new fintech funding deals at a 16z or Andreessen, Horowitz did on this side of the pond and sequins and sardines and how it feels like, 2002 all over again with Builder.

0:56 Still building on the infrastructure tip. All right here, On money, never sleeps. Oh, and how are you tonight? Wonderful piece on this lovely evening. It's a wonderful evening, isn't it? Yes, we have training. We had my middle kids 10th birthday this morning. So this morning was a bit hectic and the kids get on birthdays. Daddy, makes French toast. Yes, I make a mean batch of french toast. So nice. That was a bit crazy getting everybody out and about this morning and getting that French toast done and then I'm getting them to school but we're all good.

1:36 The rest of the day was wonderful. Thank you, excellent. Did you get caught up into any of this madness? I meant to ask you when we were talking yesterday to get caught up into any of this madness. I'm Garth Brooks. I got the only way I got caught up with it was, I went to brought the kids to the zoo on Saturday afternoon. It was half price obviously, to encourage people to go because Garth Brooks was on, but we are caught in the traffic going in. So half the country was up and coming into town on Saturday afternoon. So we got caught. Yeah, but I do it on the way and I remember talking to Caribbean, like I know one song Friends in Low Places, that's literally the only one I've heard I could say, is his son. Yeah, yeah, I kind of was like yeah, cheese. The only things that I would know would be friends in low places in achy, breaky heart and then sometimes we may Cyrus host, Billy Ray Cyrus.

2:24 Yeah, but no, just for those that don't know out there outside of Ireland, that Garth Brooks played five nights at Croke Park. I've said it holds like 85,000 people and there's this long term love affair between Ireland and Garth Brooks and I was introduced to Michelle Hoffman from Genesis Block Chain, couple weeks. Ago. And she was coming over to Dublin and she and I meant to connect, and it didn't happen. But following up the email afterwards, she's like, what's up with Garth Brooks? Like how many concerts do you actually need and it's just crazy. It's just some, you know, love affair on again off again but I'm glad this is aren't as it is.

3:06 We must be his only Market, I think so now. Well you know, it's a pretty big Market with 300 million people in the US that are no, I know. But I mean, how many? Like, that's what 400,000 fun. Some Over the last two weekends or something? Does he get that are equivalent in a couple of concerts over the US? Yeah, that's one percent of the u.s. well more than 1% of the US population. So, you know, I doubt he's that popular in the u.s. so of course, he loves coming over here. Sorry. It's not more than one percent of the u.s. population, that would be 43 million. So more than 1.1 percent, have you doing my math correctly. Thank you. But listen I am still reading that Matthew ball book metaverse. I've been working late again, I only get to read 45 minutes a night before I fall asleep, when I go up to bed with my Kindle, right?

3:54 So but getting more and more into the infrastructure side of things like, we talked about a couple of weeks ago and came across a couple of different references that he's making two players that we wouldn't even think about one being Nvidia. Now, Invidia make these gpus that we talked about a couple of weeks ago, these that are used for or, you know, the graphical processing units for video games that allow you to render these, you know, virtual 3D worlds, whatever. But they're also building all these utilities around doing even more of that. And they're incredibly well, positioned and Sony are as well. So many have done loads. So, Matthew ball is basically listen.

4:36 If you look at the Gaff am companies Google Amazon, Facebook Apple Microsoft that one of them over the next 10 years is just going to fall off because they're not. To be able to keep up with all this that's going on. And they did just so much infrastructure left to be built on that. But I'm, I will hopefully get through the rest of the book over the next week or two, but I will let you know on the final conclusions from that but it's fascinating. So, put it back in the show notes. Again, it's definitely worth a read to get to kind of get your head around, all this stuff and make it real and make it. That how is, how is the world actually going to do this? But speaking of infrastructure as well, just kicking off on the stories, the etherium merge happened last week. So that's where the proof of stake Network went into place. It's equivalent. Violent of changing the engine on a running car, you know, moving at 100 miles per hour, so or 200 miles per hour.

5:21 So that was, that was a big achievement. There was actually a watch party. So I woke up on Wednesday morning, and I'm like, there's got to be something on. And I just wanted to tap in to see what was going on. So, it's like white Americans actually happened. Yeah, emerge actually happened at about 7:30 on Wednesday morning and the guys from Bank lists. So, David Hoffman was hosting this YouTube live stream, watch party with a bunch of people from the whole etherium Community. Theorem Global Community, a guy called super Fizz was in there as well. And obviously, out of the 40 people that were on screen, that were who were participating in this and perhaps we're talking on the live stream, one woman.

6:09 Right? Which is just indicative of this whole Community. This whole ecosystem, right? But there were 40,000 people watching the live stream and to watch as the proof of stake. Network took over and these pandas came up onto the screen. I think it was on the etherium virtual machine. Perhaps I may be butchering that because I don't know what screen it was, but it was this monitoring screen that you could see a theory. Mm, live in action was happening. And when the merge happened, these pandas came up on screen in this old text designed pictures. That we'd see back in the 90s, there was actually a merge song that Someone had written it sounded like the Barenaked Ladies. I don't even remember them from like the 90s and 2000, and it was, it was, it was ridiculously camp. And but so what does it all mean? Peace passionately.

6:56 Want to know what it all means. Okay? Basically 99% last electricity consumption. Okay. From the ethereum blockchain this stat. Is that now there is 0.2 percent less energy in the world. That is being consumed because of this switch from the energy-intensive proof-of-work, blockchain, that etherium had been running on for the last, what, seven years? Eight years to the proof of stake chain. Okay. What is all mean in the long term? Vitalik, vitalik Patera, and who is the the head of the etherium community and foundation and everything having to do with, you know, one of the cofounders of etherium said that In the past, before proof of stake, aetherium had been dependent on the physical world very much dependent on the physical world.

7:52 So the gpus to be able to do the mining very energy intensive and obviously, you know, people having to look after that. Now it's become a lot more virtual and that just means that it's laid. The foundation for the etherium platform to really scale. What it hasn't done is bring down the gas phase or the transaction fees on the theorem Network because there's still a lot more To do in order for that to happen. But you know I did have the pleasure of sending Point 1 e 2 Mega fans one of the participants in the textures web 3 program that I ran earlier this year because they're doing their nft mint and sending that usually would have generated. And it's you know roughly about $150 150 Euro usually would have generated.

8:37 I don't know 25 or 30 worth of Gatsby's generated, two dollars worth of gas fees or transaction fees. Now from what I've been told it's Science. It's just purely a coincidence because this will not bring down the Gatsby's, but in the longer term, there's going to be a lot more growth. So I heard another voice that was now pointing at aetherium. It's calling it The Lazy Man's crypto ETF in that. When you buy a theory, mm, you get exposure to and of teas, you get exposure to defy, you get exposure to all of these different elements, different segments of web, three that are building on a theorem. And I think, you know, the just sets us up for More growth, all different types of perspectives on this. But it's, you know, it was a big achievement now that it's behind us. I'm glad to say that it is because, you know, more Panda songs, which were very, very goofy but the overall communities in a better place Brent I was, I wasn't directly paying attention to it, but it was rather, it was kept popping up in my kind of Twitter a news feed because of the teal Fellowship because obviously vitalik got funded through the field Thiel Fellowship.

9:41 And so did the guy whose name I can't remember now? I'm looking it up who founded figma? Which obviously was in the news for being acquired by Adobe for 20 billion. Yep. So it was just, you know, they were referencing the two together, given the timing of boat kind of news announcements and stuff. So pretty impressive. Anyway, everything that's going on, but I need to do. I need to do some more thinking about this. Right? Kim Smith from techstars and shout out to Kim. She's she's like, you know, tell me more tell me more what you think about this? And I was talking to her last night when I was at my kids soccer practice. And I wasn't in Flow. But I got to, I got to think more about this because I, it's it's critically important to how the infrastructure around the metaverse will continue to develop.

10:22 Now, me saying that right now with the best prediction for the true live, 3D version of the internet arriving for us with all these different infrastructure building on right now is say 20 30 to 10 years from now. So it's very, very difficult for me to sit here right now and say that the theory emerges that happened last week is laying the foundation for the metaverse. I think that's an incorrect statement but it's one of the many many pieces because etherium compared to bitcoin Theory. Mm is the utility layer aetherium, is that the execution layer that people are building on top of and web 3. And obviously there's quite a number of other block change. Probably, you know, 2025 worth writing about that are called the layer 1 block chains that others build on as well.

11:08 But etherium is the second biggest Block Chain in the world. The other one Bitcoin. Really build much on it. So it's there is kind of its own thing, so park Bitcoin to one side. It's incredibly important. But etherium is incredibly useful as a network, as a toolkit, as a utility, as an execution layer. So there's so much ahead of us with this. I could speculate for hours but given that we only have less than an hour today. Owen I'm going to I'm going to park it, do some more thinking. Alright yeah I will do some more thinking, I'll come back. Just like we did with the flywheel right now. I got, you know, last year even a year before or like the Disney flywheel. There's something going on here in fintech and we figured it out just by talking through it.

11:56 So what we're going to keep we're going to keep coming back to this. With fintech next story on 2 revolutes, right? And you pointed this out to me last night, which revolute rolled out there. Be n PL, which I call a bank non-performing loan in Ireland. Ireland's great place to roll out. New fintech in crypto apps because we've got a highly educated Workforce and population here, all that, you know, and highly concentrated within Familia and of people that are working at all different types of tech companies, and fintech companies. He's in financial services and startup. So good place for reviling to roll this out right. But what's your, what's your take on this?

12:36 I like that. I think it's just, I think it's, you know, they're not look, there's a good market share here, whatever. They've but I think a million to two million customers somewhere somewhere in the middle there, but like that, it's rolling it out on having it as their kind of test bed aren't out. I need a problems fairly receptive audience here for a lot of our products and features. So I think that's really the drive behind us. My saw another announcement of the needle. At it earlier about the rolling out, some of their business features into revolute Pro and a retail site live. 20 million customers on the retail side and only half a million on the business side. So they're starting to kind of merge the two offering. So we might see more of this, you know, the the sort of solutions are brought in on both sides of the kind of revolute offering and they're available to everybody and you start having more more functions and it coming back to our flywheel, the more you can get from revolute and the more you use it and the more you more, you bring to it.

13:29 And maybe It stops being a kind of business offering and it just becomes, you know, I can do whatever on it. Like we were talking about with cash app and they're kind of closed loop Merchant solution because if the merchant is using it on one side for business and the customer is using on the other side and I don't need to go to your bank and I'd say revolute are trying to do that by bringing out more kind of features. Yeah yeah I tried it this morning. Oh yes I yep I tried it's you know simple like it says in the article you just go right to the main menu in your ooh, app and where they've got all the different icons in there and you pay later. It literally took 2 minutes to set up, right? It was then a three to five minute, wait to get approved for a pay later line of 499 Euro. So that offer was put in front of me. The way that they do it though, is that I needed to connect to the true layer API that connects revolute to my Bank of Ireland account.

14:28 And that all of the data in my Bank of Ireland account when in 2 revolutes hands for and I'll come back to this in a minute for them to be able to do a quick assessment of my inflows and outflows to see if I was eligible for the maximum of up to four ninety-nine and it gave me the 499. Now, I thought that okay, this just happened and you then get the notification to accept the offer. There's an extremely long standard European Consumer Credit. Mason agreement that you have to agree to and then the same for an actual pay later agreement that you have to agree to and loads of terms and conditions and I'm sure nobody's reading this, that's the Trojan Horse.

15:12 They just want my bank data, right? That's what they're in this for. Is that the cash flow, how I'm spending, how? I'm saving, but good luck figuring out where my money is going, because the Bank of Ireland descriptions on each one to the transactions, I don't even I can't even though you can tell that Bank of Ireland app, right? So, you know, but the big thing though is I didn't accept the offer, I shut it off. I don't trust revolute with my data, right? For the reasons, I've discussed in the past or that I've refused to discuss in the past. I don't trust him with my data lo and behold, I go to look at the very next story that we're going to talk about Owen and something pops up on TechCrunch that says revolute confirms Cyber attack exposed personal data of tens, of thousands of users only, but, um, Right.

15:59 And I'm like, okay even though it was something like I don't know if 40,000 users or something like that, that's still a lot of users. So I think I made the right decision this morning and I won't be using it, but I can confirm for those that want to use it. It was a very simple. Easy straightforward process is just buyer beware, right? Yeah, I don't know what's it like, it's really like that. It's really impressive being able to roll it out that quickly because the reality is the issues. You're you know you can't access these sort of products on the other side, you know? Bank of Ireland control. Something like this out for you. So being able to have revolute and then like that connect them into your account and give them access to your main account to be to do that quick assessment. I mean, it's pretty cool.

16:39 Now, you know, the other side of it is there's only I think Clara are at the moment. Looking to securitize their buy. Now pay later loan book and sell it in the market and having a bit of trouble with that. I saw it on one of the other news sites. So, you know, it's not an, it's not an attractive product to have sitting on your book. In that sense. Yeah. House bank non-performing loan? Yes. Ed or a bank is not performing load if your clarinet right? Yeah. No. Really interesting one because obviously, you know, we're seeing more and that space has been more announcements about it. I'll see. Even this week. We had HSBC putting a big chunk of money into monies, you know, there's still a lot of interest in the kind of meal Bank space and the offerings there.

17:20 But again, they need to build out more products, offer more products and continue to build scale. So that's the challenge. Yeah, yeah. And the infrastructure is so critical to scale and and speaking of infrastructure I'm just seeing that it again is more continuing Trend and that was just coming out of the hole techstars experience for me is that we really focused on projects in web three that users could understand right and that, you know, to make web three more accessible. And that would also have a token at the core of their value proposition on how they incentivize users and Builders okay. With our approach. The first time around, we left behind any infrastructure players. Those that might be more difficult to explain to people, but also that, you know, basically would operate on, more of a web to type of business model. Okay?

18:13 So, you know, I've been thinking more and more and more about this and I'm seeing more and more evidence that a lot of other people are doing the same, okay? So, doubling down on that infrastructure side, I saw Andreessen Horowitz are a 16z is They LED London, fintech sequences 19 million dollar seed round. That's a big seed round. It was a big seed round from to do to Europe, you know. Did they are not known to be very active in Europe? Yeah. Yeah. They used to and we'll get to the next one in a minute. But what sequence do is billing and payment simplified for platforms with analytics. So, when you're doing deliver roof for example, that payment needs to be split for when I pay for food, that payment needs to be split between a tip going to the driver.

18:55 The restaurant themselves and then deliver to deliver. Ooh. So for every, you know, 50 Euro worth of sushi that I order there is that split and keeping track of those analytics related to who's getting what who's getting, how much of that 50 Euro and what are my own Tendencies on what I'm spending. And because that order that that payment is split. It's like, well, it's not just 50 Euro that is driving. This, it's 37 year or whatever the split is, right? That is actually attributable to what, to what I've bought. So this Is this is a big move from an infrastructure perspective. Like I said, I'm seeing the same thing in web three with kind of my thoughts around this, in the direction of the thesis and where I'm heading. But again, I think the hidden the hidden thing in this story about what sequence are doing with our 19 million seed round. Is that the real nugget in this whole story? Was that a 16z had a strong signal from the later. Stage startup Founders that were investing as Angels. So everyone kind of seeing that this is something that is This is necessary.

19:56 So plaid intercom Jeeves, go, cardless, marshmallow lendable hop in uipath, Manzano and comply Advantage. The founders of those companies were those within the founding teams are all angels in this round, okay sequence, right? It's a big. So that's that's a big, big signal, right. And so there's no shortage of payment, infrastructure companies out there, but like that. Yeah, there's not when you've when you've cohort like that put in the money and they clearly know or they see something. Yes, isn't obvious from the outside as to the direction, these guys are going and the value. They're going to add to it. Yep. Yep. Definitely similar on also for a 16z, another deal that they did this was just announced yesterday and this was in TechCrunch. So sardine raised 50 1.5 million in their Series be led by a 16z to sniff out.

20:47 Fishy fintech transactions. I'm like, is that where the name sardine came from? You're trying to find it. The stinky transactions in there. And this is what they do, is they use behavioral financial and device specific user data to detect fraud on behalf of its clients in the crypto and fin tech industry. So, plugging into those that have direct consumer user bases, in fintech and crypto, and the very interesting stat that came out of this piece that I'm very much aligned with is that 90% of fraud detected. On sardines. Customers platforms comes from individuals have already passed the kyc process. So what that means Is that you could sign up for an account, you could pass the kyc, you've got your utility statement, you got your passport but you know, you can get through that process and whether that was you, who actually was that person that signed up or not.

21:38 Obviously but post that set up the ability to then undertake fraudulent activities. That's what sardine is really in there to sniff out this inside this you know this is lots of different layers to it. It's you know you can still I can sign up with me and here's my details but I could be laundering the money on behalf of someone. It's been a couple of cases like that in the court are recently even in Ireland where people have been, you know, they've been the account used by someone to launder money. So the account is a legitimate account but the fought the proceeds going through or so. Not like in that example there, you know, there's obviously plenty people are signing up as legitimate accounts getting past the kyc, because it's correct, but it's actually the transaction Behavior. Then is the bit that they need to try to figure out yep.

22:20 Yep, no. Absolutely. And they are, you know, the simplest example I went through this with a, with a With trading app once where I moved in a bunch of money and that I was going to trade on. And then I said, you know what, I'm actually not sure about this provider. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go off and do some more research. So I moved the money back and I got a call pretty quick saying, okay, we just want to check on this source of funds because you move money in and then you took it out really quickly, which is obviously, you know, are you laundering money through the account? And I'm like, no. I was just unsure about whether or not You wanted to use your crappy app, but that that's, you know, that was a manual alert that went off. And what sardine is doing, is obviously far more automated with our apis, to find these types of things. Right?

23:07 I looked as a lot of commentary out there but fintech in particular, having a foot fraud issue. I've seen it from Ron shevlin and a few others have written kind of pieces out about this being an issue because obviously the speed at which you can sign up accounts and it all being done, automatically as much as possible. They're not picking up on as much and you see people using multiple Counts in multiple different providers, that sort of thing. And then, even with things like, you know, buy now pay later, for example, with those stutter stuff, not being or as had historically not been kind of shared with the credit bureaus. Then people were being able to kind of work around building. A baxter Dash in different peoples names and stuff like that because it wasn't been reported to the bureau's. So the bank's weren't aware of it has loads of different ways. Obviously that's fraud is becoming an issue in the fintech space.

23:49 So it's great to see what the guys and kind of Sardine or doing. It'll be cool to try. Reach out and get Simon Taylor on to talk about it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely Simon. So having moved from Allah, A fast which he still listed as a co-founder of, but now I think head of strategy for sardines and he put this tweet out yesterday as but you know, they go beyond the fraud side of things as well is that they have instant ACH which is automated Clearing House in the u.s. so that you can eat your on-ramp for providing Fiat into crypto. So they allow users to purchase over 30 different crypto assets instantly. And if those crypto platforms are connected to obviously, sorry, Gene's utilities rather than having to wait, you know?

24:31 But a day or two for access to your funds. They also have the direct Fiat nft check out in partnership with Tom Brady's company autograph, which I thought was pretty cool. That's pretty good. And, you know, they're going out to other entity marketplaces with that. So that's right out of the article from TechCrunch. So it was you know and it's feels like you can't just do one thing anymore. You need to do one thing really well to get to Market, but then you need to To solve the adjacent problems next to your customer base. So those customers you're bringing in. What are there? Other headaches, what else can you do? Listen to a great podcast totally outside of fintech for this yesterday. As I was walking around, while, you know, at my son's soccer practice after I finish the chat with Kim, it was I think, Trina Spire Spiner from the business.

25:20 Figs and figs do scrubs, right? Okay, so medical professionals attire that they wear during the day and she I said they moved from, you know, think they got deep inside the customer base because what it used to be. Was that just these pullover tops? You're wearing these drawstring, trousers, the size of your top was on the back of your top. So everybody knew whether you were small medium, large or extra large right now, you know, it's some people care about that and some people don't so but but still, you know, that can be sensitive. And a woman was saying that she had to put her wedding ring on her bra strap. A clip it to her bra strap because she had nowhere else to put it because you didn't want to wear her wedding ring when she's looking after patients. Right course.

26:05 So what what figs did was they got deep inside the customer mind to figure out what they really wanted and they sold those initial few products just to get going. But now they sell everything right? Everything that a medical professional, then their attire that they may want because they want to make excellent products for people and to support this community of medical professionals and make them more comfortable with what they're doing every day, right? Right? So, you know, in taking that same approach here with the sardines, it's Simon. I don't know if he'll listen to this fight going on down in angle of comparing sardines to Scrubs. Yeah, you just keep building and you solve those problems adjacent to your customers. Now with sardines ever say Hey listen, we see our customers.

26:48 That are these crypto platforms that are these fintech platforms. They're having other problems with perhaps how they connect to AWS know. They may not go out and solve that because that's not going to be within their core. These that. But they would continue to solve problems along the side of how those customers engage with the tools. They need, that are really important to their customers, right? So which a scenario where they could help their companies, then on whatever reporting requirements they have. So yeah in terms of whoever to reporting it to the regulator whatever dust, you know they build additional functionality to say. Okay well this is how we know you need to use this information internally and externally. So we're already covering you internally in terms of Reporting capability or whatever.

27:30 But here's the next step of it is, well, this is how we can package it up for you in terms of what the regulator is looking for from you or the data for commissioner or whoever that's a great point. Because in order to do anti-fraud, you need really strong data sets and if you can ensure that you're doing the right type of anti-fraud checks, On that data, that data is going to be strong enough to be able to use for that type of regulatory reporting. Now, that's a big leap of logic right there that you know, from my past that isn't always true. But I've you know, there's a strong sign there of what else they may be able to do.

28:11 So listen we hadn't talked about sardines much before and but I thought it was worth it with their 51.5. Millions. Here's the big endorsement. Yeah, yeah, to go after So awesome, awesome to see that happening. One other one, we talked about this before the board a yacht club and FTS are more than just a, you know, a community, a digital, a virtual community of collectors of these? Well they are digital Collectibles that aboard a yacht club in ftes and you know of incredibly high value or and many of them are right now but a board ape Theory. Mm nft owner Is launching a real world yacht club. Now, I had heard that there was a board, a Piat Club being built in Miami and I don't know what happened to that. I didn't look into it a little bit, you know, after I saw this story, but this is from decrypt via, Lex, auckland's, fintech blueprint, where he referenced this, and that someone is actually starting with the first yacht called a lady, Amanda that holders, you can actually make use of. So for those owners of Yachts that are bored, Whether yacht, they can make them available as part of this club. So, connecting the virtual world to the real world through yachts and to really give a shout-out to you need to give a shout out to my buddy, human GE.

29:34 He took me out on his yacht with with two of my three kids a couple weeks ago off out of hope. So got the kids doing a little bit of fishing and jumped in the water for a quick swim and harbor, which was, which was pretty cool. But yeah, there's, you know, that was a one that I just picked up towards the end of my troll through the stories this morning. I had one other one, it was more interesting because sort of the fintech start to power. This is on TechCrunch in the last week. Yeah I saw that it's a credit card full stack, credit card issuance platform a year in stealth mode did 16 million in seed funding 300 million in credit from Ann Thomas Plug and Play. A number of Angel Investors, I thought this is interesting because obviously we've talked about the likes of bricks and others and this is like, you know, create your own credit card offering for Brands. And You know, Banks, but actually where there were two, CEO saying, the see the market is obviously Brands being able to offer Their Own Credit Card.

30:29 They're branded kind of credit card functionality for their own customers. Really crowded space. So we, you know, big announce it like that means again, similar to the the other a 1601 this sequence that's the one sequencer sardines sequence. That was on. Yeah again big announcement some big names backing at you'd Wonder. Okay well how are they different? Bricks, which has been around a lot and some of the others that are out there and it seems that the play here on this one and it seems to play with any of these chronic corporate credit cards is on expense management and the more you can get embedded or integrated on the payroll side with some of these corporates, you know, there's your kind of Treasure Trove of data and access to information and it becomes an a kind of Finance solution, as opposed to, you know, a credit card or what appears to be a simple kind of credit card. Or corporate card.

31:20 Totally totally. Yeah, I see that. It's an interesting technique. Like we're talking about there with sardines, it's moving up to not to supply chain but getting further embedded into the kind of core of our business. You know through what you could argue is like a trojan horse in the corporate card in this example. Yep. You get so much spending information out of that and that's kind of, you know, the it's kind of looking at that at that way Flyer model and saying, how do you provide Financial Services In a way that lets you mind data to improve the risk profile for yourself and providing those financial services. Yep, corporate credit cards. Analytics platforms for e-commerce. Right.

32:03 But hey, that's the idea here is, you know, data is a rich thing that you can make a lot of use of so go for it, right? So just some of those interests in one big announcement fig funding in a Crowded space one to keep an eye on. Yep, yep. And and it feels like 2001-2002 all over again. Now, you know, honestly, 20 years ago, was I have the mindset to be thinking about, oh my God, we just had a massive.com crash. And of course, there's going to be a huge amount of network infrastructure now built, but now I'm thinking about it and seeing it all happen, it's just very reminiscent. And that reminds me that it's happened before it will happen again, the world moves in Cycles, so they'll be another run up. They'll be another downfall after this and, you know, hopefully, The world will not go insane. I'm not happy note on that.

32:53 Happy, note this fine evening. So pleasure is always eat at their for this finding take it easy. All right, pal, adios. That does it for this week folks, you can learn more about the stories we covered in the show, notes on our website money, never sleeps that I eat. Also, thanks to Conan Brophy, from create sound for mixing and editing. This episode Conan is an excellent medium and to get in touch with when you're thinking about launching your own podcast. As for me, I'm an early stage, startup investor focused on where fintech meets crypto and crypto meets web three there plenty of links in the show notes on money, never sleeps that IE on how to Get in touch with us, so don't hesitate to reach out finally till next time.

33:36 Thanks for listening. See you