218: Dollar and a Dream | Igor Khmel and SaveChain

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Hey there, I'll be down 10 and
this is money.

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Never sleeps.
We look inside the minds of

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entrepreneurs and the crossover
of startups and our prize

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Finance technology and Life.
As we know it, before we dive

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into this week's episode of
money, never sleeps.

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Just a quick heads-up.
That the eith Dublin hackathon.

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2023 is just ahead of us in
Dublin on.

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May 26th to 28th 2023.
At Dogpatch labs and Dublin.

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You've Dublin is the first web,
three focused hackathon

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conducted on the island of
Ireland.

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The idea is to create a space
for the community to build and

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attract talent to the web three
ecosystem.

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Check out the details on eith
Dublin, dot io on the show.

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This week, we've got Igor Kamel,
co-founder and CEO of save

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chain.
One of the twelve founding teams

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forming the techstars web, three
accelerator class of 2023.

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Save chain is the borderless
banking app.

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It's a self custody.
Will coin only wallet with a

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banking interface for the
global.

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Underbanked with the option to
open an FDIC insured bank

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account for non us residents in
short, it's metal, mask meets

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revolute, originally from the
Ukraine, but now based in the US

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Igor Kamel has been honing.
His craft for the past 17 years,

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including experience in the
investment banking, and

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corporate finance, practices of
Deloitte and Mackenzie then a

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Stanford MBA then inventor, and
as an entrepreneur in Residence

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with spur Bank.
Ink.

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And he's now a third time
founder and fintech and crypto

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in this episode.
Eager and I slide down the Arc

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of his life and finance and
Ventures that led to his

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inspiration for Save chain.
The societal factors driving the

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need to pair a USD bank account
with a stable coin wallet.

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How eager expects?
The trajectory of the save

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chain?
Customer experience will evolve

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and the hurdles.
Did save chain will need to

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clear to scale globally.
All right here on money.

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Never sleeps.
Igor.

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How's it going?
Is good.

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Sunny day in California.
Yeah.

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Lucky you lucky you and a couple
weeks ago, you were not in.

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California were over here in
Dublin, where to, yeah, yeah.

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There was like a place called
techstars wealthy, we

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participate in right now and it
starts for free and then you you

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left for a little while and then
you came back and you came to my

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birthday party.
So, thank you for coming to my

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birthday party.
You're one of two techstars,

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Founders representing at the
lemon and Duke.

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Luke that night.
So shout out to Kurt, Pittman as

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well, but we also had a bunch of
mentors there.

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So Kira O'Grady was there.
Jesus.

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You know Ma was there.
Brian Elders, Alejandra,

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Gutierrez Martin Casas.
Awesome.

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Have mall with a shout out to
all those guys.

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It was fantastic.
It was a lot of fun.

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And speaking of birthdays today,
as we're recording this tonight

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at 10:00 Irish time 2 p.m. in
the wonderful State of

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California.
It is Bono's birthday from the

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band.
U2 so I just for some reason A

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remembered random birthdays Bono
happy birthday big 63.

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He is so Anyway, listen before
we dig in to save chain, you've

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had a really interesting path to
get you here.

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Okay, so you move from Life, as
a consultant, to a VC Scout

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corporate Innovation
entrepreneur and residents.

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Ventures to life is a start-up
founder.

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Now on your third round fin
delivery Bank acts.

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Now save chain to some, it might
seem like you jumped around a

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lot, but I'm kind of clearly
see.

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Seeing this Arc towards a
vision.

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Do you think it's been a Clear
Vision for you so far or has it

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been just a nested set of
experiences where the next thing

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that you go?
After only really becomes clear,

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we are about to move on from the
current thing.

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So yeah, definitely.
There is a blend there.

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So my life was bleated like by
Stanford before stand that I

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wanted to work in finance and
after stand that I wanted to

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build finance and in Stanford,
there is the motto.

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It's called change lives, change
organizations, change the world.

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And basically I get inspired by
building something, which is a

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can be used by industries by
like many people and will

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influence of the life of many
people and In banking all my

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supplies previous experience,
we're about to kind of to do

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open banking.
So to make first half was head

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of innovation weapons Burbank.
I was responsible for opening a

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system and acquiring companies
integrating external

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Technologies with the bank and
make Bank more personal more

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life, more smart and then I left
and built up in delivery and

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Finn delivery.
It's been caged a network like,

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making bank account to the
people that is way far from the

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branches, where the no branches
and And maybe branches are not

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needed.
So then there was Bank X, which

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is asset-backed, security
technovation protocol, which is

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complete crypto story for make
security tokens and making as

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basically full of fungible and
helping people like borrow money

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against the real estate or
against just there like a piece

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of painting that is on the wall.
So potentially can influence

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many people and save chain was
continuation of that.

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It's helping like people to get
retail accounts.

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That's will walk like a bank,
but soon will be more flexible

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and Global.
So it's this is like the whole

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thing called, like, bank is a
service open banking.

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This is what I'm doing.
Okay.

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Yeah.
Now it's good that the whole

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2017, 2018 back experience,
right of.

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All right, lesson learned
institutional, too early for

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blockchain, right?
Yeah.

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Now, let's kind of bring this
down to the consumer level,

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right?
Which is where We're all of this

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digital adoption this crypto
adoption started and you know it

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just feels like yeah so I am
seeing that Ark a bit more clear

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now.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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So in 2017, I made a bet that I
built a company around idea that

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is going to be the regulation
for security to talk and they

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will be my adoption on
Enterprise and financial world

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of tokens security tokens as a
new asset class and will be

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simplified rules.
You should understand organs for

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trading the stock and send New
Market will appear.

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So this didn't happen as for
now.

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So, this Market didn't pick up
because regulator just push it

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back.
I hope this will happen.

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Like, in some time in the
future, we'll know.

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I see it.
Well, it definitely will.

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Yeah, it's just it, you know,
these things are and I went

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through that whole process as
well Igor.

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And, you know, the Enterprise
blockchain story is one that is

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predicated on, massive change
management, projects technology,

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change management projects that
Surprises have to undertake.

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And they have to undertake that
together if they're

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collaborating with their Bank
competitors out there.

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And there's just way too much
political Capital at the top of

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these big wedge institutions
right now, to be able to

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undertake these massive, huge
change projects with other

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banking outfits, right?
What we had to go through that

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the first time to learn all,
that all of this made so much

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sense to do.
And I think, now, we're at a

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stage where it's a bunch of us
out there who are thinking a

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couple years ahead of the In
terms of the adoption of digital

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assets.
And I think this is where, you

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know, where you've landed now
with save chain.

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Yeah so the best from even
before Krypton from my

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experience of like how they're
newcomers like just drop the

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banking.
So the first start with the

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consumer model so because the
banks that don't nobody want to

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be like first player he there.
So the best way to kind of to

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build something like a standard
in the industry need to feels to

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do a consumer play.
Consumer story.

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And then add as Co way, they
want to just have the same and

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then you are deciding whether
you want to keep this consumer

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story, only for you or you want
to become as a service and make

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everybody like, basically plug
into you on this consumer story.

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So, this is pretty much what's
happening could save chain and

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the vision was to build it
basically bank without bank

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account and make, like, a new
type of financial institution.

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And there's that gonna solve the
problem that was recently.

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You're at the with the starting
from X DX and grip, the funds

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were I misplaced and ending with
like the current problems with

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the original banks in the S.
So there was recently a problem

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Silicon Valley Bank signature
first Republica and then the

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full list of the banks that in
trouble right now because of the

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interest rate hike, it's 700
Regional Banks, 700 banks in the

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as the potentially can go
bankrupt.

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So, and the people like the
people afraid, people are afraid

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and the some corporations they
can lose money.

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And they already implement the
strategies for how they can

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split fans, too many banks to
cover with regulate, with 250k

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per account insurance.
It's yeah, it's, I never, I

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never expected this like happen
in the yes, I saw this.

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Some something like that in
Ukraine.

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And I never expected that I see,
like something like that in the

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ass, but it's reality.
And yeah, I mean it's happened

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before.
It'll happen again like there's

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this this podcast called on the
brink.

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And they're opening kind of
theme music and announcer for

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that it refers to something that
happened and it's like a CNBC

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announcer something talking
about the government.

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Start to print all this money
and all of a sudden people get a

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little nervous and out of this
worry comes something called

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Bitcoin and that was something
that was recorded back in 2008.

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And now we're going through this
like Regional Bank crisis and

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it's like all these people that
are concerned about their money

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in Regional.
Banks and out of this worry,

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comes the non-custodial wallet,
right?

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Exactly, exactly.
So I, yeah, the people and

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usually, and usually, we wanted
to build this product for

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emerging markets only.
So, for the people who like,

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struggling to get access to yes
door to, like, modern banking

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Western banking, accounts
Western banking products.

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But right now with this
situation, we see a lot of also

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interest from us and from
develop markets as well, because

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the people want to make sure
that the funds that they Have

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it's not just bang funds is
that?

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The bank is only like service
institution but they have full

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control of these funds.
And so this car we this is a

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model of non-custodial world.
Yeah.

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On that note, let's kind of take
that from the top right that

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you've talked about save chain
is being met a mask meets

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Revolution right and but just to
kind of lay this all out for

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folks can you tell me what is
safe chain?

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And how's it going to work?
Yeah, so save chain isn't no

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banking application.
So what does it mean?

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So it's like you're downloading
the application and you have

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there, you open account and this
account is for adding this

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stage, only four doors.
So, it's basically one currency

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Condor they think, is that for
this account, you can we will be

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able to issue card.
You'll be able to do like

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somebody optional stuff, like,
send money to your friend, with

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the mail.
You can, you'll be able in the

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future to basically make some
interest.

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On this account like five, maybe
eight percent interest rate.

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The, the what special with this
account that this account is not

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in the bank, or any institution,
which is like used to be all the

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previous generation of, no,
banks could engrave a loot,

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which is my my class.
And by the way, I found it.

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So all of them, they rely on
existing banking rails for this

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no banks.
So they are.

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Their product was user
experience.

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The try to simplify the trying
to reduce increase user.

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Spot on the, under the hood
there was all the same, like,

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Bank rails, like Swift and
traditional.

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In our, in our case, under the
hood there is not a bank in

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rails, there is a blockchain,
there is crew, the most reliable

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and scalable technologies that
is a, that is basically a

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started.
And we're testing for the last

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five years.
So we are taking this, and this

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case right now, we're working on
polygon, but we open like and

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make test with other chains.
So this is the chains that have

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the highest SLA, seriously So
agreement.

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So they do not go down and, and
they don't have history of,

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00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,500
like, hacking out to be cocteau
to be like laws and funds.

229
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,200
So, so, we're going with that
and also we going with the most

230
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,300
reliable stable coins, which is
already upon the market for a

231
00:12:41,300 --> 00:12:43,700
while doors.
The book winds, which is used DC

232
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:44,600
and the u.s.
DT.

233
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,900
So use DC when State when there
was recent bank note down and

234
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:51,800
right now, it's basically to to
the most stable, stable coins.

235
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,300
So I'm making we're making this
bank.

236
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:58,200
That is pretty much look like a
user like Anyone who do Pay Pal.

237
00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:03,100
But inside it has like wallet,
like, metal mask, and this means

238
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,300
the user in charge and the user
control fully their funds.

239
00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:11,100
But they user experiences like
banking since for instance in

240
00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,500
the what's different between
Walt and the bank you can lose

241
00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,400
your application, the bank and
still recover account, if you

242
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,000
lost your private key odor, like
a wallet and you forgot your

243
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,500
private key, you can lose the
funds.

244
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:25,400
It's one of the main problems
with the crypto wallet.

245
00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:29,400
So we we implement the
technology called chaos recovery

246
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,100
and the same.
You sure it's secret and PC to

247
00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,200
basically to enable recovery of
the key.

248
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,100
So it means for you, as a user,
you have account, you have this

249
00:13:37,100 --> 00:13:39,700
application, which is like
she'll application.

250
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:42,100
And then you have separate
password that only, you know, we

251
00:13:42,108 --> 00:13:45,800
don't know this password where
there is your recovery key at

252
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,000
Amazon and basically, you
install the application.

253
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,500
And then you recover your vote
within this application and you

254
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:56,000
got your fans.
So so this makes like a less

255
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,700
recovery.
The second thing is a guest

256
00:13:57,700 --> 00:14:00,800
piece, so we don't want users to
be deal with guess peace and be

257
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,000
aware about the that it's
complicated.

258
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,800
Technology has its under the
hood.

259
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:09,000
So we take care about the guest
fees and topic Awards

260
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,100
automatically for the next five
transactions by Guess view,

261
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:17,400
which is Magic in this case.
So for users to just move free

262
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,400
experience as they would be like
no bank but it's on chain and

263
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,600
fully controlled by using Very
good.

264
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:26,500
All right.
We'll listen, let me give you an

265
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:28,900
example and then you tell me how
it's going to work on Save

266
00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:31,500
chain.
Okay, so I just received a

267
00:14:31,508 --> 00:14:37,700
thousand dollars or a thousand
USD C, which is the USD stable

268
00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:43,600
coin, which is issued by Circle,
as we talked about and that was

269
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,300
received into my metal mask
wallet, okay?

270
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:50,900
Which is a non-custodial wallet
and I wanted to actually use

271
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:55,800
that to pay Um, bills in fiat
currency in traditional

272
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,500
currency.
So, what did I do?

273
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:05,300
I sent that using wallet address
to a custodial wallet that has a

274
00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,700
Fiat off ramp, or a feat
traditional currency, off-ramp,

275
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,700
so, I sent it to my custodial
wallet, I then converted and

276
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:17,700
sold the u.s.
DC, and I converted that to

277
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:22,700
Euro, and then I move the euro
to my Neo bank account.

278
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,600
Which is completely different.
So, one, two, three, four hops,

279
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:27,600
yeah.
Okay.

280
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:29,900
Tell me how I'm going to do this
on Save chain.

281
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,200
I receive 1000 USD.
See right?

282
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,900
Yeah, that's the first step.
Yeah.

283
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:38,400
So, receiving in our case, you
will provide the address and

284
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,800
section address which is also
non-custodial wallet to your

285
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:44,600
sender.
You will receive this 1000.

286
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,300
You use DC through your ESL to
your use, d.c. address and save

287
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,900
chain.
And after that, you pretty much

288
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,100
don't need to leave search and
so you'll be able to enroll for

289
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:59,400
em them real time to the card,
will you will be able most

290
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,600
likely to pay either by this
card or directly.

291
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,800
This feels that you need to pay.
So the plan is develop the

292
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,500
infrastructure around this fort
in the same way as it basically

293
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,200
exists in your bank where you're
transferring these funds and

294
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:18,000
other to pay these bills.
So if I got it one thing yeah I

295
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,900
got it.
Now this is Idle factors for me

296
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:23,300
having done this transaction
with these multiple And types of

297
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:27,300
wallets and actually, what is
going to end up being two Banks

298
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,700
is just down to the fact that
this is kind of how I this is my

299
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,600
financial life, right?
But there are societal factors

300
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,100
all over the world that are
driving the need for this, what

301
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:40,900
are some of those societal
factors?

302
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:43,200
And what are the demographics,
where these things happening?

303
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:50,800
Where you see the most probably
volume driven use cases for Save

304
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,200
chain in the next year or two?
Yeah, we go to the right now,

305
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,900
wait list from 65 countries, and
we are starting from Argentina

306
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:00,100
right now.
Why?

307
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:04,099
Because hip hyperinflation so
inflation, Argentina is more

308
00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:06,800
than 100 percent and there was
just last week, the day when it

309
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,500
was 8% currency devaluation just
in one day.

310
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,900
So it's, it's yeah, it's a not,
not controlled and you can hit

311
00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:17,599
open deposit like you.
Today is deposited in Tina for

312
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,500
like, 30 percent annual rate.
So, it's going.

313
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,599
Yeah, it's going crazy and the
people.

314
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,200
Too much.
The live from door economy

315
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:24,800
there.
Yes.

316
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,800
So they they cannot really rely
on the net on the currency.

317
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,500
They try to change the door as
soon as possible as soon as they

318
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:36,500
get it so countries like that.
This is how I core markets so

319
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,500
Argentina, it's 100% when you
sell a hundred fifty percent

320
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:43,700
inflation in Nigeria, they have
like a currency crisis as well

321
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:45,700
as an addition Tina.
They have to exchange rates.

322
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,600
So the presence of to exchange
rates, this is this, this is a

323
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,300
sign that this is our Market,
because there is like a fish oil

324
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:53,100
change.
Great.

325
00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:55,100
And there is like a real
exchange rate.

326
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,100
So official change rate like an
Argentina versus like a straight

327
00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:00,900
exchange rates to times
difference.

328
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,300
And street street exchange rate
is the code blue door, right?

329
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:09,300
So it's two times higher.
So so those countries they are

330
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:13,000
definitely our markets and then
there is like there is a special

331
00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:16,800
situation in Brazil where also
there is a taxation of capital

332
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,700
withdrawal.
And if you go with Brazilian

333
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:23,300
cards to yes like a shopping for
shopping, you pay Top of all

334
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:24,700
your purchases.
And, yes, taxes.

335
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,500
You pay like almost 7% to Brazil
taxes for Capital withdrawals

336
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,900
from Brazil.
You can send money from Brazil

337
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:32,800
to.
Yes, it's 1.2% X.

338
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,300
So for Swift if you buy stable
going to Brazil with 0.3% X is

339
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:39,900
20 times cheaper than if you
just go and shopping with the

340
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:40,900
card.
Yes.

341
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:46,100
So all this all these examples,
this is where we're stable coins

342
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:52,500
and make sense.
I'm thinking of this pitch deck,

343
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,300
Exercise that that we went
through yesterday.

344
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,100
Yeah.
When you get to your team slide

345
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,400
that you need to talk about what
we did, what we know what we

346
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,700
learned, what experience we
have.

347
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:09,500
And as you're walking me through
through these inflation rates in

348
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,300
these taxation rates, and these
transaction fees.

349
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,100
And these different markets, I'm
thinking, you know, your stuff.

350
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,000
Yeah, I met those people.
I know this from like from the

351
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,900
first hands from the people who
agree.

352
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:24,800
Shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

353
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,000
When everything is operating in
symmetry in between the

354
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,800
non-custodial, stable phone
wallet, or let you know, or

355
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:40,100
let's just call it a stable,
coin wallet and the FDIC insured

356
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:42,800
US bank account which one of
those.

357
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,700
Do you think based upon your
view of the world right now is

358
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:48,900
going to get more the volume and
more the usage?

359
00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:51,000
Yeah.
Yeah.

360
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,800
So we have a wallet as our Core
is the first part of the product

361
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,800
is pretty much our minimum
commercial product here right

362
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,700
now, the world.
And in addition to the world, we

363
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:05,300
are offering for residents of
55, countries US bank account.

364
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,700
So we are doing this.
Where are our banking service?

365
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:14,200
Partner called synapse in San
Francisco so I believe like the

366
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,700
tractor e, how it's going to be
growing.

367
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:20,000
Its will be like similar to
PayPal PayPal when they started.

368
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,700
They were like noun for, as a
way to pay.

369
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:27,400
You be so nobody like really
consider it PayPal is like way

370
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,700
to keep their money, save money
to do anything else.

371
00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:32,400
The just the go and simply pay.
Anyway yeah.

372
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,200
So in this case, like also many
people like the beginning to

373
00:20:36,208 --> 00:20:40,000
consider us and we'll consider
is like way too cheaply.

374
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:41,800
We're going to we're going to
basically provide three

375
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,900
remittance to 1,000 or from with
zero fees and money to their

376
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:49,300
countries and and way, how they
can open US bank account

377
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:52,500
probably, like, outside of their
countries for their families.

378
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,300
But down the road, we want to
build the behavior as soon as

379
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:00,500
they will be more and more trust
and the see like some other

380
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,700
product that we're going to
release, but when I build this

381
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:06,500
Behavior, so not just used us as
a vehicle, but keep funds with

382
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:10,500
us and start to use us as a real
like noncustodial financial

383
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:13,200
institution.
So so key parts of the system

384
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,800
and and don't leave.
Yeah.

385
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,900
Yeah.
And there's a something in there

386
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,900
that I was thinking about
between serving the unbanked and

387
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:26,000
serving the underbanked Right
unbanked versus underbanked on

388
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,900
bank to me is that you operate
fully with cash and that's just

389
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:33,600
how you live your financial life
under Bank means.

390
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,800
Well you may have a bank account
but you can't do a whole heck of

391
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,000
a lot with it.
So what I hear you saying is

392
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,200
that by offering the ability to
have more flexible payment

393
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,900
options by having the ability to
actually hold and save your

394
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:52,100
wealth would save chain at these
interesting interest rates you

395
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:56,500
do I actually provide more
banking to those that are

396
00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:59,800
underbanked, right?
And that's yes, the basic sides.

397
00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:01,600
Yeah.
It's yeah, exactly.

398
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,200
And the for their Bank towards
underbanked like, it's this is

399
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,300
why.
Sometimes, for me, it's

400
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,300
difficult to explain the people
that just like an indie, as they

401
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:13,300
just fully American and never do
not travel too much and live

402
00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:14,900
here because they don't see this
problem for them.

403
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,300
It's like everything.
Let's move.

404
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:20,600
Yeah, everything.
The, Click as a sin ID walked

405
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,400
by.
And I mean, I am Yes, already

406
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,700
likes all together six years,
but if I'm and the bank, yes, I

407
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,800
went back.
I'm the banker dies.

408
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,200
This just a simple example.
And then, like, if I, if I try

409
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,800
to open for my company bank
accounts here, it took me like

410
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,300
four, five banks.
Because before I found the

411
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:42,600
bandage agreed to open bank
accounts for me India's, so it's

412
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,800
like with having all the
documents.

413
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,500
So it's not, it's not easy.
Yeah.

414
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,800
And and and I'm fully
documented, like, in the like,

415
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,000
well, documents in the S, and
there are many people don't have

416
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,800
it document.
That I have and they're the bad

417
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,700
bad situation.
So so we have been building the

418
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,900
service for the people who are
underbanked with the in terms of

419
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:05,300
like access to like modern
Western Finance more than yes

420
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:08,000
products.
And it does yet they live in the

421
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,200
SS diaspora or they'll leave for
like anywhere in the world but

422
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,900
still basically the financial be
Global the problem with

423
00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:16,800
custodial institution and the
banks, but all of them locally

424
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:21,400
governed, they are not Global
and to kind of to break that as

425
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,400
a parent company, have more.
To be Global because he took a

426
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,500
guards and it's more like
already Global protocol.

427
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,500
So to build a real Global Neo
Bank, you need to give away of

428
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,300
the custody, you need to give
away like all as something that

429
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:36,700
regulated only locally, which is
like a story of custody as soon

430
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,900
as we are basically and don't
have this element.

431
00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,600
Then we have much higher chances
to be like globally, Global

432
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,100
financial institutions.
Could you at some stage, almost

433
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,500
a money market sweep?
Is that you could overnight

434
00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:54,700
convert the USDA The u.s.
DC and then place that out into

435
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:57,300
D, Phi at attractive overnight
rates.

436
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,600
Yeah.
Yeah, there is a circle which is

437
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,800
issuer Market maker of use d.c.,
they have this products.

438
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:06,800
Okay, they have was taking over
night.

439
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:09,000
Yeah, the problem with the rate
is there, if I'm not mistaken,

440
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,200
it's like half percent per year.
So it's between that much.

441
00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:13,800
Yeah.
It's not.

442
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,200
It's not why you would rather be
in stable.

443
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,000
Currents.
But there is like other

444
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,900
products, there is like, so
right now, the treasury bills.

445
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:23,900
The give you more interest.
And if I yes, so Okay, we are

446
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,400
looking for like taking nice
treasury bills to give people

447
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,100
access to like the to something.
You know, the Apple introduced

448
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,300
recently.
There's famous saving account

449
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:38,000
back by Goldman Sachs for, for
4.70% beliefs, which is like

450
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,400
already look like meaningfully.
And those kind of account.

451
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,000
This is exactly what we want to
do as well, but we want this to

452
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,500
be like in the talking form and
Global and most flexible.

453
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:48,900
So we're looking right now for
this partner like some big-name

454
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,400
where we, where we can basically
take the stack, nice products

455
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,000
for Our customers.
Okay if you call Goldman Sachs

456
00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:00,600
we should recycle let's get them
on the horn.

457
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,900
Absolutely but like that right
that you've got so many

458
00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:09,600
challenges being thrown at you
and I know that you know your US

459
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,600
market strategy like you said
there's lots of interest in this

460
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,200
in the u.s. because of what's
happening with the regional

461
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,700
Banks.
But that that is a I think

462
00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:22,000
that's a story that is still
being written, right?

463
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,900
But You've got this regulation
by enforcement going on with the

464
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:29,000
SEC and anything that is crypto
and stable coins.

465
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
Obviously our cryptographically
secure dassit so I'll just call

466
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,500
them that you've got you know,
you got your go-to-market

467
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:39,500
strategies in geographies with
the concentration of underbanked

468
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,400
individuals and you don't live
in Argentina or Nigeria, you'll

469
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,900
be relying on Partners, they're
right, you've got, you know,

470
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:49,400
working with in Tech Partners to
integrate your Tech all of

471
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,700
these, you know, maybe it's one
of those things.

472
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,700
Things.
Maybe it's something else but

473
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,100
you know which of those
challenges do you think you have

474
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:00,200
the biggest handle on and you
know which ones do you think are

475
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,400
just going to be a tough call?
Yeah, initially initially I

476
00:26:03,408 --> 00:26:07,200
thought that the most difficult
will be like to go all those

477
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,100
markets where I'm not from and
this is the comment that I'm

478
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:11,700
received life from any we
season.

479
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:14,000
The yes, they call it, we call
them.

480
00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:17,000
We talked to them and said we go
to Mexico, go to like Argentina

481
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,800
on a jury.
They said, oh guys, you don't

482
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,600
have this DNA in your team DNA.
This means you don't have like a

483
00:26:21,608 --> 00:26:27,200
Mexican During guy in your team
and then I find out when I start

484
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,600
to talk to those people that is
they not exactly right.

485
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,900
They're wrong.
Because when I talked to like

486
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,800
the people in Argentina and they
said and we are discussing like

487
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,300
yes.
And they said, oh yeah, you

488
00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:40,500
know, you like how long you do
as they ask me as I do?

489
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:42,400
I'm six years old.
I still like, pretty much like

490
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,700
Ukrainian.
And you now, that is like, in

491
00:26:44,708 --> 00:26:47,500
dies everything, according to
the books, and like, they try to

492
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,900
do like everything, like her to
the books, like a rules and

493
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,800
here, like, it's more.
It's It's more like more

494
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,700
experience base and all that and
practices and and this is

495
00:26:57,708 --> 00:26:59,500
exactly pretty much many of
these countries.

496
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,700
They're pretty very similar to
Ukraine Franco speaking and I

497
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:06,200
thought this would be like a big
cultural Gap now like this.

498
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,300
Why many my friends like the
living wall discount?

499
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,500
Just making businesses there
because their culture.

500
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:12,300
Their business culture is very
similar.

501
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:14,500
It's much easier for me to
understand this culture, then

502
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,100
like four Americans.
So this was like, so that's why

503
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,600
this kind of DNA Gap was not a
gap so it's completely

504
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,000
manageable.
Yeah, the man, the man challenge

505
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,100
right now.
It's yeah.

506
00:27:26,100 --> 00:27:30,300
It's obviously like u.s.
regulation and we come to

507
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,100
understand how this works, but
it still requires a lot of

508
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:36,700
experience and experience people
around build momentum and to

509
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:39,500
build like history.
So we don't want to be

510
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:42,900
completely dependent on that so
we can see the raven like to

511
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,900
keep intact business in the yes,
but keep like a Computing device

512
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,500
business outside of here.
So maybe in some moment this

513
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,300
would be like two different
companies now.

514
00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:55,000
But But yeah, it should be done.
And right now we rely on our

515
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,100
partnership.
So we good Partnerships recently

516
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,200
like do to thanks.
Thanks to you Pete and textures.

517
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,400
So I got with us with stripe and
stripe is right now we're in the

518
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,400
sandbox to to do on the rain
pick and of ramping.

519
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,500
So basically to enable our users
from all the 50 states of the

520
00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:13,800
yes, and each state has
different regulations require a

521
00:28:13,808 --> 00:28:16,600
separate license which is like a
couple years of work.

522
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:19,300
So all this is going to be done
with stripe.

523
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,500
Yes, tribal take out there
because they already have this

524
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:22,600
licenses.
Yeah.

525
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,700
So which is, which is a big
deal.

526
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:26,300
Yeah.
Because otherwise, it's just,

527
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:29,400
it's a big, big, big per year to
enter your smart.

528
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,200
Yeah.
And there's at a severe I'm

529
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,000
working on that is related to
the whole Money Services

530
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,800
business in the US that
actually, the European

531
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800
translation of that is called a
vast.

532
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,600
But virtual assets service
provider.

533
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:48,900
Yeah, because the MSB, you know,
framework was just pre crypto

534
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,100
and it was there and then it was
like, well, that looks like the

535
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:54,800
right thing.
NG to do for crypto for those

536
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,900
businesses that are moving into
and out of crypto and into an

537
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,500
out of Fiat.
And then lo and behold, we end

538
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:03,300
up with a specific regime in
Europe.

539
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:07,100
That is just dedicated to crypto
around those types of movement.

540
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:10,900
So I think, you know, being able
to partner with people like

541
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,500
stripe and and and others to be
able to help you do.

542
00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:16,400
This is a good thing.
I may have already pointed to

543
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,000
this, but I think there's
probably more to this story of

544
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Igor.
And on that note, one of the

545
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,400
things that I Preparing for this
Igor.

546
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,800
Is that on your LinkedIn
profile?

547
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,800
You are Igor Gary Kamel.
And I've been calling you Igor

548
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,500
the whole time since day one.
And then I'm like, yeah, you

549
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:37,400
like Americans just call him
Gary.

550
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,900
Some where'd that come from?
That was some Americans do.

551
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:44,200
So it's like a Gary is it's like
a nickname.

552
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,600
So when the people come to, yes,
I like a Genies are famous for

553
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,300
that.
They're taking like, American

554
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,400
names.
Yeah, and like ukrainians not

555
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,400
know.
Not really, but some do.

556
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,100
There is like famous eager which
is Gary here.

557
00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:00,600
Gary we remember Chuck, we his
famous and energy Community.

558
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:02,400
Yeah.
Gary vaynerchuk.

559
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:02,700
Yeah.
Yeah.

560
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:04,100
He's also.
You gotta react his own.

561
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:06,000
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.

562
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:08,800
I'll see you.
Okay.

563
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:10,800
Okay, he was like it.
Yeah.

564
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,500
It's like a 16 year old.
Entrepreneur way back in the day

565
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:17,500
with wind.com before vaynermedia
and all that stuff came along.

566
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:18,900
That's pretty cool, right?
Yeah.

567
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:21,100
So the so there is there is like
some best practices.

568
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:24,700
So some examples.
I yeah, I might in some moment I

569
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:27,200
wanted to use Gary and then like
understand that just like it's

570
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,900
more about.
So looks like eager is more

571
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:31,900
authentic.
So I want to probably stay with

572
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:34,000
bigger right now.
Okay, Michael.

573
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,800
All right, no, I'm cool with
that.

574
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:39,300
I'm cool with that.
But tell me there's a, you know,

575
00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:42,300
from your experience.
There's got to be discerned

576
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:45,600
secret, write this thing that,
you know, and that you believe

577
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,100
to be true, that others may not
be aware of, or others believe

578
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,300
to be false.
Can you point to something that

579
00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:52,300
you think is your earned secret
that makes a difference?

580
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,800
Yeah, they're in, there is not
very probably the main secret

581
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,000
like in terms of business.
So the people if they want to

582
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,400
save money they wanna like real
take about the money.

583
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,500
They not just rely on regulate
we have.

584
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:09,000
So they need to also rely on
technology and so I'm offering

585
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,300
them.
This is like Choice.

586
00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:13,500
Yeah.
So which is and we are trying to

587
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,400
basically improve this value.
Proposition by adding insurance

588
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,800
for this non-custodial Words
which is makes more sense you're

589
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,100
covered by both technology and
by lichens.

590
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
Social insurance.
This is like the best of the

591
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,500
wall.
So this is one of the secret and

592
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:34,400
terms of like behavioral.
Yeah, I moved this winter to to

593
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,800
South Africa.
So I start to exercise like and

594
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,000
another to like, cut more energy
for the business.

595
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,500
So and I'm doing snows
snowboarder here and I learned

596
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,300
it's all about momentum.
It and this momentum could be

597
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:47,400
even if you this momentum is
negative at the moment.

598
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,600
But you have the speed, which is
like in snowball.

599
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,600
This means you can change and
you can go up and it's It's very

600
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,400
important to move.
Yeah.

601
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,900
So even if you are, maybe moving
not exactly where you need to

602
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:02,400
move, but you have the momentum
and with the small effort, you

603
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,800
can move to the right direction
and get your goal.

604
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,500
So, okay to also keep moving.
Keep moving, keep moving.

605
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,900
Yeah, keep moving.
Now you get that definitely get

606
00:32:11,900 --> 00:32:13,900
that through snowboarding.
Yeah.

607
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,100
It was I was in the one in some
moment like we recently fast

608
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:21,200
neither am I talkin with fully
diluted market, cap was like 1

609
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,900
billion dollar so it was like,
yeah.

610
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:24,000
Two weeks.
Two weeks.

611
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,100
Yeah.
And and then everything crashed

612
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:29,400
and it was depressed like a
couple years that I lost like

613
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
billionaire like all that.
Yeah and then I understand this

614
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,000
is not this is just basically,
it's bad idea to stop.

615
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,800
Yes, you need just keep moving
and indecent since he was at

616
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,800
that hate.
It's definitely you can come

617
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,600
back.
Yeah definitely I mean at the

618
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,600
lowest moment of my own career
it's probably about four years

619
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:56,100
ago and I everything just
crashed and stopped and but I

620
00:32:56,100 --> 00:32:59,700
still had a bunch of things that
were yelling at me to do things.

621
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,800
Yes and I just let it all drop
to the floor and I only picked

622
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,900
up those things that were really
screaming at me.

623
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:09,000
The loudest and I ran with those
things and I just kept running

624
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:11,700
right?
And you know sometimes you just

625
00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,300
have to do that.
What would be one thing that

626
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:16,100
people wouldn't expect to know
about you?

627
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,600
Mister snowboarder?
Wouldn't expect About Me.

628
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:22,900
Maybe the deck of a journalist
degree.

629
00:33:23,900 --> 00:33:25,500
Okay.
All right.

630
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,600
Where's that come from?
How did you do that?

631
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,600
Yeah my mother was a like an
journalism and like a

632
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,600
literature.
So she was said that I need to

633
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:37,300
and I kind of I like it at the
time and by the way without but

634
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:38,400
they're in the journalists as
well.

635
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,700
Like it's his first profession
like he was running so it's good

636
00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:45,000
for public.
Speaking can good for like a

637
00:33:45,008 --> 00:33:48,200
soft skill development so
absolutely, yeah I did.

638
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,300
This degree in parallel with my
Physics degree.

639
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:52,800
So, what's happened?
I was like, studied physics and

640
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,000
then like go to the train and
Purity minutes.

641
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000
I had like night classes from 6
to 9 p.m. like for Joe for

642
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,200
journalists.
So it's like develop both sides

643
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,400
of my mind, okay?
All right, that that's pretty

644
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,100
cool.
I did my stint with writing in

645
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:16,199
2006 2000. 2005. 2006, when I
was traveling around the world

646
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,900
with my fiance at the time,
Between leaving Bermuda and

647
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:23,699
settling here in Ireland.
I wrote a Blog and my mom was

648
00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:26,400
reading it every day and she was
pointing out all the grammatical

649
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:32,300
errors I was making and that's
how I learn to write better,

650
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,400
right?
Was just when you've got someone

651
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,500
looking over your shoulder.
And so, yeah, your mom was a

652
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,800
journalist and my mom was a
teacher.

653
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:43,900
So, that's something that's
common craft for us, to just

654
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,199
learning how to write properly.
Yeah, exactly.

655
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:50,800
Because I thought of good stuff.
And what's the best way for

656
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,199
people to get in touch with the
Igor?

657
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:55,600
Yeah, the best way is its
defensive grip.

658
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,800
That people still a gram.
It's Bank stuff.

659
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,100
So yeah, bankster.
Yeah.

660
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,300
You male, you go read some
chain.com.

661
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,500
Yeah.
Whoo and Linkedin.

662
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:08,300
LinkedIn, I'm kind of like I had
like big to my big LinkedIn to

663
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:12,400
10,000 for so I definitely will
find me everywhere.

664
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Definitely in the industry like
it say that my first or second

665
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,000
Circle everybody If you are not
in my second Circle, you're not

666
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,200
in the industries.
It's amazing how that works.

667
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,600
Isn't it scary scary.
You can get in touch with

668
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,000
whoever you want.
Just one degree of separation.

669
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,100
That's it.
Exactly.

670
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,500
He's like all right, we'll
listen Igor.

671
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:37,000
Thank you so much.
Awesome, to have you on the show

672
00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,000
and looking forward to seeing
you next week in London, see if

673
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,500
it That does it for this week
folks.

674
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,800
Thanks to eager for opening up
his mind, to help us figure out

675
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,300
why he does what he does.
And you can learn more about

676
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:52,900
Igor and save chain in the show
notes on our website money,

677
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:54,900
never sleeps.
That IE, if you like what you

678
00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:57,700
heard, please leave us a rating
and, or review on Apple podcast

679
00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:59,500
or Spotify.
Is that helps others to find the

680
00:35:59,500 --> 00:36:01,400
show.
Thanks to Conan Brophy from

681
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,800
Great Sound for mixing and
editing.

682
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,500
This episode, Conan is an
excellent medium and to get in

683
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:07,200
touch with when you're thinking
about launching your own

684
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,600
podcast.
As for me, I'm an early stage,

685
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,000
startup investor focused on
where fintech meets crypto and

686
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,400
crypto Meats.
F3 and I lead the techstars web

687
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,500
through accelerator.
There are plenty of links in the

688
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,600
show notes on money, never
sleeps that IE on how to get in

689
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,700
touch.
So don't hesitate to reach out

690
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,100
finally till next time, thanks
for listening.

691
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:23,700
See you