084: Money Talks #12: Challenger Bank Brands - Bó, Revolut & N26

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Hey there, welcome to money.
Never sleeps podcast.

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Looks inside the head of
entrepreneurs and it what makes

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them do what they do.
I'm Pete Townsend from knowing

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Adventures, your co-host of
money, never sleeps.

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Along with Owen, Fitzgerald.
This episode of money.

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Never sleeps is kindly sponsored
by Ireland's fintech and

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financial services recruitment
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great talent for Core financial
services company.

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It is highly advisable that you
build a relationship of the team

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of top.
Tier recruitment is a really

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know their stuff.
You can find them at top-tier

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Recruitment.com and tell him we
sent you this week.

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We've got another money talk,
special segment with a comeback

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kid.
I want Fitzgerald House meeting

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into a few of the things that
happen in the past week in,

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tech, Venture deals and the
topics we generally cover in our

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day jobs.
So, let's just get right to it

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with this week's episode of
money, never sleeps.

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Here we go.
Again.

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Welcome to money, never sleeps.
We're recording today from the

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home studio.
And in this episode, we're

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looking at three pieces of
content from this week that are

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relevant to us in this Cosmic
cloud of startups and Enterprise

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that we operate in.
And hopefully, it's also

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important to all of you are
faithful listeners.

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We've got Owen, Fitzgerald back
again this week.

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How you doing today?
Bro?

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Pretty good.
I'm tired.

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It's been a long day, but I've
been looking forward to catching

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up.
To chat.

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Absolutely.
Absolutely.

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Yeah, it's been, you know, I'm
getting used to not spending

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much time outside of the house,
but it's just really not

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healthy.
Not leaving the house at all on

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any given day.
Is it?

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I know I'm Joe and I find any
party find the same obviously

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trying to work with kids.
By the end of the day.

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That guy five, loads of books
here that I really want other

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I've ordered or halfway through
reading but actually just the

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energy levels for sitting down
and then reading a book at the

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end of the day.
Sometimes I'm just like, no now

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it'll put your eyes believe
them.

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Watching Netflix is something
absolutely snow.

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All right.
Well, we're going to take a look

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at three.
This is all on the theme of

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Challenger Banks and not only
just in the context of startups,

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but also the Enterprise level
and the big news from earlier

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this week.
Actually it was late last week.

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Was it RBS axed their digital
Bank bow, right?

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That was reported by TechCrunch
on the first of May.

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So that would have been Friday
last week.

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Week also a bunch of other
outlets, but I just pick this

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one from TechCrunch because it
seems to be the most interesting

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one.
So Beau was the digital Bank

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developed by R vs. / NatWest.
It is to shutter just six months

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after launching publicly and
Gathering 11,000 customers.

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The incumbent Banks consumer
Challenger brand.

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It was their attempt to build a
start-up within a larger bank

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and in the longer term compete
with trendy upstart banking apps

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as Bordered by TechCrunch,
including those such as Manzano,

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revolute, Starling and others.
The bank plans to focus on metal

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which is its small business
banking Challenger brand, which

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is the author Steve-O here.
Reported had already begun to

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assimilate bow, after the two
respective teams were moved into

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the same building.
I know and I think the world

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knows because it's public
information that metal came out

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of a partnership between eleven
fs and RBS in 2019 that they had

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been working on.
On for, at least, I think 12 to

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18 months.
So 11 FS must be pretty.

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Happy to see metal take the lead
with in, RBS, in terms of their

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Challenger Brands, but, you
know, they're consolidating the

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to, they had already done a bit
of a consolidation with the aqua

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higher up, the loot team, which
was kind of a millennial /

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student geared Challenger Bank
app.

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I think we've seen this before
we're going to see it again.

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What do you think about it own?
Yeah, I mean Is this is an

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interesting one because this one
didn't get off to a good start.

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Anyway, I mean, aside from
anything else.

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They launched the brand and
said, oh, here's a name, that's

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unique to the World on was like,
well, no, see Irish cow, you

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know, you're like you're paying
somebody in marketing to come up

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with a brand name.
I just think it like Cash.

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Cow, like no, does it make?
It didn't really work.

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No, but, I mean so they brought
in a CEO.

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I'm trying to remember, Mark
Bailey.

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Yeah.
So, I mean he left after two

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months.
So there seemed to be some sort

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of power thing going on.
And then obviously the I thought

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it was, I thought they made a
really smart move by bringing in

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Allie Purdue and the guys from
loose which didn't work out.

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But I mean he left also and they
brought in a lot of our team.

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But I mean, what do you want to
miss her?

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It was watch for at some point
to last couple years were 44

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applications for Challenger Bank
licenses.

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For I work.
Yeah.

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This one to me was was on, was
going to be something.

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We're going to see happening
anyway, specifically Bow and

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then, you know, points or a
wider issue with the market and

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these types of companies that
can you build a banquet in a

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bank or outside of a bank or
connected to a bank?

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Or you know, what, a certain
point manager and they're gonna

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have to make a choice and in
clearly.

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In this case, the middle choice
to get rid of all 11,000

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customers is nothing in the
scheme of things, when you

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compare it to what the
revolution the manzo's have the

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competency.
The number is ramping up.

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Yeah.
I don't know.

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I mean, it, it's, you know, they
spent 100 million on this,

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right?
It's a lot of money and well,

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sorry, it is absolutely, but in
the scheme of things from

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internal from a large
multinational bank and the money

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it would spend on the tech side
of things.

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It's probably not that much from
their point of view.

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Oh Yeah.
From their point of view, but

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imagine what, like, a talented
fintech team could build with

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100 million in six months.
Yeah, huge.

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And, you know, I think being
within the confines of a

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regulated bank, they have All
different types of compliance

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requirements.
They need to meet with each

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bill.
They have all different types of

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quality control, which is a good
thing but can really slow you

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down and all those kinds of
people are really costly, right.

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I think it's like I think it's
the culture and it's the, you

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know, the buy-in from senior
manager because reality is

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you're creating this alternative
Bank to Target certain types of

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customers.
Put your like a factory shooting

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one off from the other Sobo
can't go after the normal

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customers and Then the rest of
NatWest or / or BS.

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Can't then go after the types of
customers the potion go after.

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But yet, they're all customer
would say, yeah, that that's the

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problem with these things,
right?

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And you know, I've read and as
have a bunch of people, the

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innovators dilemma by Clayton
Christensen, and I've read it

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twice and I talked about this
quite frequently and I've talked

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about it on this podcast before
the main lesson from that book

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is that when corporates are
trying to be disruptive with

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Innovation and new brands, new?
Challenger things that they're

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doing, go set it up as a
satellite to the Mothership and

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keep it far enough away.
So that you're not really

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infecting that satellite with
all of the things that have

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slowed down the mothership over
the years and, and beyond that

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it's cut.
It's just a conflict in conflict

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of interest, in my opinion, in
that you've got the business

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development people, the product
management people.

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The marketing people that are
all get their bonuses out of the

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Mothership.
The year based upon new

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accounts, being opened new
customers, new credit lines.

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Nevermind Wells Fargo.
We all need to get into that,

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right, but how can you like,
like you said, how can you where

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do you draw the line right
between?

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Okay, you can go after these
customers, but our Challenger

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brand needs to go after these
other customers.

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And that's it, just doesn't seem
right, you know, so I'd say

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just, you know, what is it that
you actually really want with

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this.
Challenger brand.

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It's not necessarily the
Challenger brand.

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It's the functionality, right?
It's the app.

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It's everything that you get
from the experience that keeps

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you surprised and delighted over
and over again.

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Do you need to really go set up
a brand new Challenger brand to

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do that as a big bank?
No, just make your app better.

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Yeah.
Well, there's that but I suppose

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what you want they want to be
able to do is they want to be

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able to launch this Bank on the
side that can do all of the

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stuff that the Big Bang wants to
do but Do it quicker and better.

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So I worked in an unnamed German
bank and we propose that piece

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of work to it.
Like a very large customer

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around the kind of dashboard for
managing accounts monetary

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accounts globally.
And that would and they loved

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it.
And we said great, welcome back

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to us in two years when we build
it for you.

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It's that sort of thing.
So like, you know, the issue is

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transforming your existing bank
because the reality is it was I

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don't think it works.
Try build this and have it

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attached to it.
He feels like you said, it needs

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to be far enough at arm's
length, that they can't have

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much, say, over it to a degree.
But if your truck is still

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trying to keep it very much
attached to your big bank and

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reality is it should I don't
think is going to work out and I

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think you're better off.
Trying to adjust focus on

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transforming your business.
So don't actually you as the as

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the bank can adapt and roll out
those products and their to do

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things better and faster instead
of just trying to like bold on

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this thing on the side that
supposedly going to do

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everything greater.
Yeah, and I wonder What the, you

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know, the over-under is is that
still right from my American

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football days?
Have I lost that much touch.

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Was it under over under over
under over under?

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Now the over-under explain what
exactly that means because I do

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want to follow an American
football.

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I always hear it mentioned them
like it's not like what they

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have to score by or have to
store more than those points,

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you know, for you to win the bet
or whatever.

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Yeah, you can, you could place a
bet on whether the combined

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score of the two teams is either
over or Under a certain amount,

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right?
You know, so but the over-under

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really to get back to this on
how many corporate clients that

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are vs. /, NatWest brought
through the bow office as a kind

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00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:22,400
of petting zoo type experience
for these big corporate clients

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to get this.
Warm fuzzy feeling that RBS /

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that West where a really
Innovative Forward Thinking

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back.
It's like look, we're launching.

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And you know, our own Challenger
brand, right?

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And listen, I don't know.
Alison Rose is CEO.

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I feel like I'm slacking her a
bit.

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So I'm going to step back from
that, from that line of thought.

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I'm just going to let that one
lie, and I think, you know, I

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like she said in the article, it
was listen were prioritizing

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right on where we choose to
invest and this is a place where

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we choose not to invest any
more.

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00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:56,200
So I think like I said, I come
back to then, you know, choosing

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to invest like 100 million in
the scheme of what their Tech

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00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,000
cost.
Be every year is probably very

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00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,900
little, I know.
But that's the problem.

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00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,100
Right?
That's a problem.

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With big bang and Banks aren't
going to be able to get away

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00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:08,800
from this.
You can't just change A banks.

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Technology platform in three or
four years.

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00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,400
You can't do it.
And everyone that is coming at

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00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,600
this from a fintech angle and
the last five to ten years.

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00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,000
They have the benefits of being
based on 2010 to 2015, to 2018,

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00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,400
grade technology, right?
Which is just completely

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different than the banks that
are operating on platforms.

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That are an average age.
Of 37 years old, right, you're

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00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,700
just you're just not going to
get there.

227
00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:38,400
So, you know, I think try to
compare the two too much is

228
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,000
difficult, but you can actually,
you know, I think what Alison

229
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,700
Rose did here is, you know,
let's fail fast, which is

230
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,000
startup 101.
It's all right, so but I do

231
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,100
think it matters.
What you're like where you're

232
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,700
focusing on because I think you
know, this one is more

233
00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:54,100
interesting in some of the other
ones.

234
00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:56,100
Like JPMorgan shoot-down fan
earlier.

235
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,600
Yeah, this year.
I think it was like this is more

236
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,500
interesting because of choose.
To keep metal going.

237
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,900
So I'll give you think about it
from the bank's point of view.

238
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,400
Like really what I'm trying to
do here on the challengers side.

239
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,700
They're just trying to keep up
with the times and be cool.

240
00:12:08,700 --> 00:12:11,200
Like, you know, all of the other
cool challenges out there and

241
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,200
trying to make sure that they're
still seen in the same degree to

242
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,700
a different type of consumer,
but realistically, you know, by

243
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,400
keeping the likes of metal to
really just want to doing is

244
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,800
bringing some Innovation but not
a huge amount of innovation to

245
00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:27,500
the corporate customers because
ultimately those guys, those

246
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:30,900
guys going to stay with you any
way I want Yeah, I'm starting

247
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:33,800
previous work.
Whereby, you know, you can you

248
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,900
go to your large corporate
customer and you're like, oh

249
00:12:35,900 --> 00:12:38,600
we've made this like change
things and how you can get your

250
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,200
like Doc your heel and
statements online, and when I'm

251
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,900
printing them in, posting them
to you and then I got, it's

252
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:45,300
great because I'm not going to
move from you.

253
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:46,500
Mr. Big bank.
Anyway.

254
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:48,200
Yeah.
No, I know what you mean.

255
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,700
And and if you think about that
from that angle, which is a

256
00:12:50,708 --> 00:12:55,700
really good point O, and that
would you rather be a business

257
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,600
banking customer of metal,
right, which is backed by RDS.

258
00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:02,700
Or a revolute, right and
revolute business.

259
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,400
I know from experience that I
would pick metal seven days a

260
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,700
week and twice on Sunday, right?
So, you know, at for my business

261
00:13:12,700 --> 00:13:15,300
account for my personal spending
and moving back and forth, you

262
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:17,900
know, between currencies
absolutely revolutes.

263
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:21,600
Brilliant, but, you know, not
from a business perspective yet.

264
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,100
They've got a long way to go on
that.

265
00:13:24,100 --> 00:13:28,300
Note revenue or segue there.
But thank you.

266
00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,800
Thank you.
If there's one thing I learned

267
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,900
from the 11 FS guys doing
podcast with them a couple years

268
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:36,000
ago.
It was the segue right?

269
00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:38,300
The revolute is on the hunt for
Acquisitions.

270
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:42,300
And this was in the Ft today.
Wednesday, the 6th of May, as

271
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:44,700
we're recording this, they're
looking to use some of the

272
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:48,600
proceeds from its recent, 500
million fundraising to by rival

273
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,800
technology companies that have
been hit by the coronavirus

274
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,600
pandemic.
So they raise 500 million from

275
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,900
investors in February, valuing
them at 5.5 billion, which is a

276
00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:00,700
nice big chunky, number.
That's a funny thing about

277
00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:03,500
these, big valuations.
You can't actually cash out at

278
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:05,400
that point.
It's a completely illiquid

279
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,900
asset, because, yeah, if you try
to the value, would drop

280
00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:13,800
considerably but away from that
nixed, Iran ski, who's the CEO

281
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,200
of revolute?
Said, that, they're targeting

282
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,000
deals in areas such as travel
aggregation, which was a

283
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,800
surprise to me, when I read it.
But when I thought about it, it

284
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,400
it got me thinking and that
would allow Revenue customers to

285
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,300
buy flights or rent cars through
the revolute app.

286
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,900
We travel Winds are finally
lifted.

287
00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:33,500
And who knows when that will be,
we had to cancel a family

288
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:36,400
holiday to the state's coming up
in July because we just don't

289
00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,500
know when we're going to be able
to leave Ireland, which is fine.

290
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:44,000
But, you know, so so the if I'm
thinking about the budget for

291
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,100
that, a lot of aggregators must
must be think a lot of Big World

292
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,000
issues.
Anyway, a lot of them are in

293
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,500
trouble at the moment, you know,
and Nick store on ski said, we

294
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,400
could probably purchase one and
sell flight tickets at cost and

295
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,100
be ten to fifteen percent
cheaper than everyone else.

296
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,800
So this is A weaving in a very
interesting Direction.

297
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,800
When they said by some rival
technology companies.

298
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,500
I immediately thought of an aqua
higher for a crypto wallet, that

299
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,600
was incredibly Innovative and
that the founding team couldn't

300
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,500
commercialize and sell right?
So, but they're looking at the

301
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:19,200
travel side.
What do you think of all this?

302
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,300
That was unexpected?
Because like, the play here,

303
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:26,000
obviously, with the we can
regulate and others is to bring

304
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,500
more things into your ecosystem
within your app, more partners.

305
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:32,900
It's so like I mean on one hand,
yes, it makes sense to clearly

306
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:35,200
lots of good deals and
opportunities open the market.

307
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,900
I mean, you only have to thank
you reference Expedia and

308
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:39,900
obviously they've raised a lot
of money recently from the like

309
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,700
to Silver Lake like Silver Lake
are going into deals left, right

310
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:44,500
and Center.
They're effectively becoming the

311
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:47,400
new Berkshire Hathaway.
I get a nickname for a lot of

312
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,700
companies and where the value is
dropped, hugely sort of getting

313
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:51,900
to realize deal.
So it makes a lot of sense, that

314
00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:53,500
revolute.
Another should be raising what

315
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:57,300
is effectively a war chest and
to go out and purchase really

316
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:58,500
nice?
Add-on businesses.

317
00:15:58,500 --> 00:15:59,500
I was surprised.
It's true.

318
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:02,300
Like education one but I suppose
maybe it's just that they're

319
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:02,900
looking at.
Okay.

320
00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,100
What what what particular space
is?

321
00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,300
Can we get a really good deal
and that would be one of the

322
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,300
first ones you look at.
You know, I'd imagine they did

323
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:11,900
expedia's and the booking a calm
down.

324
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,100
All these are the ones are under
a lot of pressure and it's

325
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,700
probably a good deal to be had
and it's a case of well, you

326
00:16:17,700 --> 00:16:20,000
know, we could get that now.
So I don't forget us and see

327
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,600
what we can figure out what we
can do with it.

328
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,600
Yeah.
Now I'm with you.

329
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,000
I'm with you.
And it had to me.

330
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,900
This feels like it's all about
timing, right?

331
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:29,500
It's that Expedia had just raise
them.

332
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:34,700
Mmmmm self 3.2 billion, right?
And it's like they did that just

333
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:36,900
by chance and February.
They've been working on it.

334
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:39,700
Obviously for a number of
months, you know, they're going

335
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,200
to be fine.
But, you know, let's look at

336
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,700
some of the others like
Travelocity orbits

337
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:49,300
priceline.com, you know, they're
gonna probably be in some kind

338
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,800
of trouble and you can pick them
up at a cheap price, you know,

339
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:58,100
so if you can actually acquire
all those assets from those

340
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:02,500
companies, All those
relationships that they have at

341
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,099
A Cut Rate price.
That's something you just can't

342
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:09,000
do in the normal scheme of
things without a pandemic on

343
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,400
like realistically, what you're
looking for.

344
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,800
So, you know, the travel a
creation space for five months

345
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,400
ago, probably not.
But it's you know, where could

346
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,500
we pick up something really
game-changing which gives us

347
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,099
access to like because I mean a
lot of these aggregators

348
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:28,099
obviously because if it's the
back to what I'm saying, when we

349
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:32,100
go, whereby, if the revenue plan
is to incorporate more and more

350
00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:35,600
things into your into your, a
pour into your wider ecosystem,

351
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,000
but why not go after someone who
as part of their offering

352
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,300
already knows that.
So Expedia booking.com, like,

353
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:46,100
you can get everything through
those websites are getting the

354
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:47,600
getting the getting the whole
end-to-end.

355
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,900
Piece of it already just by
acquired one company.

356
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:53,600
So everything that's a, you
know, having on Expedia and a

357
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,800
while there.
But like, what do you can book,

358
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,900
flights?
Obviously, you can book hotels.

359
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:58,400
Believe the book current will
all that sort of stuff.

360
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,300
The amount of I suppose add-on
pieces of red balloons would get

361
00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:03,900
by going after a space like
that.

362
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,100
Yeah, valuable done them.
Try to do it bit by bit and

363
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:09,100
integrate all those individual
Parts themselves.

364
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:14,400
Yeah, and and now you're
thinking laterally and like

365
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,400
crash Davis said breathing
through your eyelids, so I'm

366
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,800
with you.
Yeah, there's so much Downstream

367
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,400
connectivity that they would get
out of one of those deals to

368
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,000
buy.
One of these companies that

369
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,500
would just open up a whole bunch
of transaction, charges FX

370
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:31,500
everything.
You name it, right?

371
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,900
And it just all about that flow
II.

372
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:37,000
Don't, you know, I like I said,
I don't see, Expedia kind of

373
00:18:37,008 --> 00:18:42,500
being in the, in the target for
their Acquisitions, you know, I

374
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:46,200
saw today as well Airbnb,
they're not a travel avek

375
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,300
aggregator, but obviously there,
In there in this space, they

376
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,200
shut down all their marketing in
March.

377
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,400
They were spending eight hundred
million dollars a year on

378
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,300
marketing.
I don't crazy numbers and that's

379
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:04,400
they now have they put the
kibosh on that and that will

380
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,900
restart it and a number of
months, but it's amazing that

381
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,500
you can, you could save that
much money.

382
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:11,600
I think they're laying off a
whole bunch of people as well.

383
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,700
Yeah, 12:33 Imports.
So interesting times without

384
00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:17,500
one, but it'll be interesting to
see.

385
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,600
You because obviously I'm the on
the other side then in the u.s.

386
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,100
You have Alexandria crazy of
Cortez and Elizabeth Warren.

387
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:27,200
Try pushing bills in the Senate
that will stop large tech

388
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,400
companies from doing, mergers
and acquisition.

389
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,100
Because I think the obvious
thing would be to look at the

390
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:34,500
example and say, well, why
aren't you picking up companies

391
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:35,700
left?
Right and center with your

392
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,600
hundred billion on the balance
sheet or whatever, what then

393
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,300
does the US attorney like
actually stop that from

394
00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:43,400
happening there.
That might, that might impact on

395
00:19:43,408 --> 00:19:44,700
the likes of are going to try to
do.

396
00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:46,900
If someone is ruled out for us
companies.

397
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,000
I don't know what.
How much class they'll have with

398
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,600
that, actually think it seems,
it seems a bit on turn one way

399
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,900
because he would argue, it's
probably better for some of

400
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,900
those companies out in required.
Now, what do I think?

401
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:59,000
I think it'll be really
interesting one and I'm

402
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,600
surprised there hasn't been more
detailed stroke already.

403
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:02,900
Yeah.
I know.

404
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:06,300
It's, I think everyone's time
will come when it comes to these

405
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,800
deals.
There's consolidation of of Tech

406
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,300
players or not even Tech
players, but those that are

407
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:16,700
delivering real world services,
but completely based on

408
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:19,700
technology.
Oh, there you hit a point where

409
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,900
there's very little
differentiation between them and

410
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,400
it just going to make a lot of
sense to consolidate them.

411
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,700
But hopefully the barriers won't
go up in the US to prevent that

412
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:30,200
from happening because it should
happen.

413
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:31,700
One of the other things with
revolute.

414
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,000
Is that a Monday?
It announced.

415
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,300
It had finally started operating
as a full bank and Lithuania

416
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:38,800
were secured.
Its first banking license and

417
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,800
late 2018.
Probably just to do things like

418
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,400
current accounts now, they're
actually able to do lending and

419
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,400
those types of things.
So, you know, they're going to

420
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,100
keep Adding on these Services
going to be really interesting

421
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,100
to see, you know, can they
provide credit for you to

422
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:55,500
actually go on holiday?
Right?

423
00:20:55,500 --> 00:20:59,200
And now, that type of that type
of linkage between the travel

424
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,300
aggregators.
In the end, the lending business

425
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,800
Lithuania, I thought was a
neighboring country to Germany,

426
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,700
but it's not.
I just looked at my map.

427
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,300
So, geography lesson.
It's actually next to Poland,

428
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:13,500
which is next to Germany, which
is a lead into the next point on

429
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:17,100
and 26.
So they just raised a hundred

430
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,800
million.
And, and that was reported in

431
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,700
finestra today and they're
extending their series D round

432
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:28,900
to 570 million and they're
valuing it at 3.5 billion, you

433
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:32,000
know, which is just a little
couple billion down between

434
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,600
friends between revolutes,
valuation, and then 26, is

435
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,200
valuation, the joined by all
the, all the core investors.

436
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,500
In this round Valor Ventures
who's backed by Peter Thiel,

437
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,000
tencent Holdings, which is
interesting to read that.

438
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,100
I was never really aware of that
tencent in one of the Financial

439
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:53,800
Brands behemoths obviously that
they have a piece of n 26, which

440
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,600
is kind of their European
banking play.

441
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,800
Obviously early bird Ventures,
who we know, Insight Partners a

442
00:21:59,808 --> 00:22:03,600
big name, a leonce x, which I
think is Ali Oz, corporate

443
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,000
Venture, fund GIC, and
Singapore, who we know as well.

444
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,100
Owen and then Greyhound
Partners, all of these are in

445
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:14,400
this and 26 raise.
Now again, 100 million topping

446
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,100
up their series D, taking it to
570 million.

447
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:21,200
Not that At big difference maker
on the global scale, right?

448
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,500
We just said that RBS, spent 100
100 million on Bo, you know, and

449
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:29,700
26 took in 100 million to
actually, you know, Bridge them

450
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:32,500
to their series.
He probably they've developed

451
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,000
quite interested me because they
have five million users in

452
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,900
Europe, racked up 250,000 users
in the US after launching last

453
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:42,400
year and also smartly, in my
opinion.

454
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,300
And I think it, everybody else's
opinion, exited the crowded, UK

455
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,200
filled with manzo's, Starling
and revolute.

456
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,600
All Ahead of them.
They're the bottom of the list

457
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,400
in terms of accounts, probably
above bow, but below everybody

458
00:22:54,400 --> 00:23:00,600
else and we know an-26 well
enough I met sarunas the gekas

459
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,300
last year.
He's a general manager for

460
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:06,100
greater Europe looking after
their smaller, European markets,

461
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:08,900
like Portugal Ireland.
I had a pint with him at

462
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,900
Mulligan's in Dublin and
unfortunately actually for me it

463
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,700
was just water because I was
driving that's almost like sand

464
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:17,400
to have water in Mulligan's
which is like the best plan.

465
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,600
Again, it's in Dublin or one of
the best pint of Guinness in

466
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,800
Dublin.
And another time when he's back.

467
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,700
I'll have a true point with them
and all.

468
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:25,600
Would you interview their former
head of Partnerships?

469
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:26,900
I look at that today on
LinkedIn.

470
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,900
I didn't know that that he'd
left at the Dublin Tech Summit

471
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:32,400
last year and we joined him on
it.

472
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,000
Episode 43 Dan Calvert.
He's now.

473
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,700
Mym, why would you like a Kate?
Yes, startup.

474
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,400
It's a catering business or
something like that.

475
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,100
Hope he's doing well.
Anyway, long intro into this.

476
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,500
Hang on 1026, you know, given
that we don't yet have mons over

477
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,200
Starling available at to us here
in Ireland.

478
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,600
With a shout out to a lane D and
from Starling Ireland.

479
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,000
Let's just focus on and 26
versus revolute.

480
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,500
Why would you choose one over
the other?

481
00:24:04,700 --> 00:24:09,200
Besides the obvious of FX, four,
revolute, that's kind of the

482
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,300
question?
And it comes back to the

483
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:12,300
previous conversation.
We're having about, you know,

484
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,600
the the 44 Challenger Bank
licenses being applied from UK

485
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,000
and stuff.
Like I mean how much difference

486
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,100
is there between We know any of
them or do than, you know, who's

487
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:22,000
got to, who's built a critical
mass.

488
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:25,400
I got, I find these
announcements kind of strange in

489
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,000
one had.
Like it sounds great and

490
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000
everyone looks at everyone
focusing on the valuation.

491
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,700
But like in reality most of them
are just raising Runway because

492
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:35,200
they're still not making enough
money yet.

493
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600
So every time there's a raised,
its what was this one series,

494
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,100
350 series Hemi and then the
next one, you know, there'll be

495
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:45,500
another hundred million plus for
the next one or whatever.

496
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,200
And obviously, they're all I'm
trying to chase getting into the

497
00:24:49,208 --> 00:24:51,700
lending space to be at actually,
lend proper money.

498
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,400
Maybe bring in proper profit so
that they do not only to raise

499
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,000
another hundred million or 200
million.

500
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,400
So they're kind of unusual.
I want to, like I said,

501
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,900
everyone's focusing on the
valuation.

502
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,800
I mean, there's so much
difference between any of them.

503
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,500
I'm sure if they're all sitting
around a table, it would tell us

504
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,500
differently, but I suppose, you
know, you hit the nail on the

505
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:11,900
head earlier when we were
talking to her of it as part of

506
00:25:11,908 --> 00:25:15,000
the intro there, when you're
talking about starting a munzo

507
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,200
and 26 Revolution like they're
the four.

508
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,600
Main players.
I would say I would expect the

509
00:25:19,608 --> 00:25:22,000
rest will fall off.
How much of a difference is

510
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,600
there between all of them.
I can't see that.

511
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,100
There's a huge difference.
I don't know what your view on

512
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:29,200
it is.
But yeah.

513
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:37,100
No, I mean I've used both and 26
is kind of that's my allowance,

514
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,000
right?
So that's where I put the money

515
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,700
that I have is my own spending
money each month.

516
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,100
There's a number of bills and we
talked about this before when we

517
00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:47,400
covered the myths of fintech
with that Chris.

518
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,500
Enter did with Ann Bowden and
and that, you know, there's a

519
00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:56,000
number of utilities or service
providers or accounts that I

520
00:25:56,008 --> 00:25:58,500
have Financial accounts that I
have that won't accept.

521
00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:04,600
And I ban that doesn't start
with ie, right in terms of where

522
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,400
the money is paid from.
So I can't use my in 26 account

523
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,900
for that because that starts
with d e for Germany, right?

524
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:16,700
So, until the European market,
kind of opens up a bit more, I

525
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:18,700
can't use that. 26 for
everything.

526
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:21,400
So although I'd be comfortable
doing that and completely

527
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,000
switching over to end 26 for
everything for my personal

528
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,600
account.
It's just not feasible.

529
00:26:26,700 --> 00:26:29,200
Just because the rest of the
world hasn't caught up yet.

530
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,800
I do like the experience of
being able to have the things,

531
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,600
like, Apple pay is fully
integrated and the Irish bank

532
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,400
that I'm with.
It's not and they don't have a

533
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,300
an indicator for when they might
ever be ready for Apple pay,

534
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:47,300
which is, you know, again, back
to the point of Legacy banking.

535
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,000
For sure that we talked about,
you know, it is what it is.

536
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,300
And I use, I use revenue and
lost but a loss in terms of

537
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:56,400
Reno, like what I actually find
these revolute for the most is

538
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,500
that in terms of managing the
kind of grocery bills and stuff

539
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,300
like that is that I'll top it
up, top it up for the week when

540
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:04,800
a certain amount and then
obviously, we all know about a

541
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,600
Tracker.
We spent on groceries and stuff

542
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,000
like that.
I download our, I put myself, I

543
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:15,600
set myself up on the trading
partners to by fractional shares

544
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,800
because it felt like it was Oleg
comparison to a company.

545
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,900
I'm working with at the moment.
Give me a bit of insight into

546
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:22,300
what some of the other companies
are doing.

547
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,400
Okay, and that was incredibly
slick.

548
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,800
It took me like two minutes and
I did like even the terms of

549
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,200
reference and all the sort of
documents.

550
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,300
Like they were, you know, they
weren't, you know, I'll scroll

551
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:34,900
through and pretend I read
hundreds of pages and fine until

552
00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:36,200
I get to the take the bit at the
bottom.

553
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,800
It was all fairly well explained
that I thought was very slick to

554
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,700
be set up and then I get to the
point to do I want on my account

555
00:27:42,700 --> 00:27:44,500
on like nope.
I just want to see how it worked

556
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,200
and it was very sick, you know.
Yeah, very straightforward.

557
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,300
So You know, I think offering
like that, I would say that the

558
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,000
more the show, so intimately,
it's the more they can bring

559
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,800
into their ecosystem.
To me is always going to be what

560
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,400
will drive me to switching
things over.

561
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,800
But again, that piece of, if I
can, if I can set it up to pay

562
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,200
by direct debit from my
electricity over them and will

563
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,100
then, you know, I'm only ever
going to use it for the not

564
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:09,900
important things.
Yeah.

565
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,500
I know, I know and revolute.
I really only use when I

566
00:28:12,508 --> 00:28:16,000
traveled to the US, that's all I
use it for n. 26, gives me that

567
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,300
budgeting that you just talked
about.

568
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,500
Out, it's funny.
I had to move, I was gonna move

569
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:24,300
a bit of money to over to
coinbase it because it some

570
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:26,900
watching the Bitcoin price like
a hawk.

571
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:32,300
And so it started from my end 26
account on Friday because of the

572
00:28:32,308 --> 00:28:38,000
bank holiday in Ireland, but it
took until Tuesday for that

573
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,700
money to go from n 26, two
revolute, because revolute was

574
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:45,000
the only account that I had had
linked to my coinbase account,

575
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:47,300
right?
So then I moved it onto.

576
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:52,300
They afternoon from revolute to
coinbase and it was in coin

577
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:55,100
basis, account in a matter of a
half hour.

578
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,600
So something's going on there,
you know, in terms of, okay,

579
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:06,200
went from a German iban over to
a UK iban four, revolute in

580
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:09,300
basically what three calendar
days.

581
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:13,600
But then it took 30 minutes to
get out of the gbi, ban the UK

582
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,800
iban of revolute back to to
Estonia, which is On the other

583
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,300
side of Lithuania, and Germany,
and so on and so forth,

584
00:29:20,300 --> 00:29:23,700
geography lesson kids, don't
listen, because I got it all

585
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:27,300
wrong.
But like you, you would wonder

586
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:31,000
because I mean, for someone
looking at both of them are, you

587
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,200
know, a couple of the options.
Like, like what are you looking

588
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,200
forward to it?
Because, like I said, there are

589
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,700
some there are some Integrations
that aren't there.

590
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,600
There are some, some products or
whatever you want to buy, they

591
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,700
won't accept it.
So, like, I'm I don't see them

592
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,800
looking at us in the same way
that I'm looking at all, when I

593
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,200
open up a bank.
Our intent.

594
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Not to me is fundamental issue
here, is that if I can't do

595
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,800
everything that my normal buying
can do like they can do a hell

596
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,200
of a lot of you do probably
everything better.

597
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,200
But if, if I cut, if they can't
get accepted in the same way as

598
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,200
my normal buying calls, and I'm
not going to move everything

599
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,800
across.
Yeah.

600
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,500
I think when Starling does
actually launched here and it

601
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:07,500
looks like it's going to be 20
21 at this stage.

602
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:12,300
There will be obviously, a
starling Bank Ireland, iban that

603
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,300
everyone will be able to use so
that I can just hook up all the

604
00:30:15,308 --> 00:30:17,300
direct debits there.
I've said it before on this.

605
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,800
Podcast and I'll say it again.
I'll happily move everything

606
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,800
over to Starling bank.
And that means n 26 will go

607
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:25,300
waiting on their product
development.

608
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:27,500
People to say whether or not
that means revolute could go as

609
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:31,400
well but I using transferwise
now, even anyway, Jesus, this is

610
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,700
like the Geeks of fintech.
You know, who's got what card I

611
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:36,700
think, but to put that up on the
artwork for this episode,

612
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,600
anyway, Anything else jumping
out at you this week with with

613
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,000
any of these topics that you
thought were interesting.

614
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,600
No, there was an I haven't
looked into a deep, you know, if

615
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,600
I was reading Chris scanners
report on wire card, which I

616
00:30:51,608 --> 00:30:54,700
thought was interesting in
relation to some itself and its

617
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:56,900
I suppose it's interesting
specifically because it relates

618
00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:00,000
to a lot of this because it
should have see drives a lot in

619
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,700
the background for somebody's
kind of in Tech startup, so or

620
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,500
records and look like I said I
was reading it but I haven't

621
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:12,000
really Laughs into it to
necessarily give it to detail

622
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,600
other than it seems to be a lot
of issue around auditing because

623
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,300
it's actually what made me think
of it there.

624
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:19,600
When you were talking about
money, going to from one account

625
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,600
into another account in the
Stony and stuff like that.

626
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,200
But my co-workers clients our
Revolution Adam buying tandem

627
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,300
bike tied here or what the what
the auditor seem to be saying is

628
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:32,400
that they can't track some of
the revenue like over a billion

629
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,800
of Revenue that they're saying
they had because it all has to

630
00:31:34,808 --> 00:31:37,100
do with the thing called rent,
ripping where money would leave

631
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:39,900
a banking work hard.
It's in Germany and go off to a

632
00:31:39,908 --> 00:31:43,300
foreign country which looks like
it's going to a customer and

633
00:31:43,308 --> 00:31:46,100
then we also didn't appear back
in her day, back in were cards

634
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:48,800
account.
Yeah, it was on the financial

635
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,100
times yesterday.
I think.

636
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,800
So, that's interesting Main.
And like, it's interesting

637
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,600
because I had dealings worker
before in the past.

638
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,400
But actually, it's interesting
because they drive a lot of the

639
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:03,500
Innovation that's behind and a
lot of payments behind on the

640
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:04,700
challengers.
Yeah.

641
00:32:04,700 --> 00:32:07,200
I saw that too.
I looked at it last year because

642
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,200
the client of mine Had asked me
to do a kind of Market radar.

643
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,600
Look at some of the different
fintax out there that might be

644
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,400
able to sneak up behind them.
And one of the ones they

645
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,200
actually mentioned was wire card
and that was about a week before

646
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,800
the news came out and broke last
year that ft had investigated.

647
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,000
What had been going on at wire
card.

648
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,900
And so I excluded them from the
the review because they said,

649
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:34,700
listen these guys are running
into trouble.

650
00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:36,400
I don't know if they're actually
going to come out of this.

651
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,700
They did come out of it.
And it looked like things were

652
00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:44,300
back to normal for them.
And then now this KPMG audit is

653
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:47,900
poked a few more holes in it.
So the funny thing seems to be

654
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,600
the workers hired KPMG to prove
TFT wrong.

655
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,000
There's no looks like that.
They've made it worse.

656
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,500
Yeah.
Yeah, I'd say yeah, some heads

657
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,500
are going to roll over that one.
But you know KPMG got to do

658
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:01,600
their job, right?
You know, the letters got an

659
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,000
audit.
Yeah.

660
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,600
So just a little bit.
You have you seen anything

661
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:11,000
interesting last few days?
Well, Again, my Fanboy status

662
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,800
keeps attracting me to
Andreessen Horowitz a 16z what

663
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,700
they're doing.
They can't make topped out there

664
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:20,300
crypto funded 515 million.
I think it was something that

665
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:24,600
gave some insight into how they
were going to be deploying that.

666
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,700
And I think, defy or
decentralized Finance is a big

667
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:31,000
component of that.
Which is the, the alternate

668
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,200
economy that has really sprung
up over the last five, six years

669
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:39,700
in the crypto space, which is
using Cryptocurrency balances

670
00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:43,400
for, for Lending for all
different types of staking

671
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,400
different things that you can do
that are far easier to do with

672
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,000
crypto than they are to do with
fiat currency.

673
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,500
So not surprised.
Because if anybody's going to be

674
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,400
able to raise that big of a fund
specifically for investing in

675
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,800
the crypto space and again, it's
not they're going out to buy

676
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,600
Bitcoin, right?
They're going out doing the

677
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,400
picks and shovels, right?
Those that that are provided,

678
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,100
the infrastructure for the
continued expansion of this.

679
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,600
Turn it economy.
That is moving at a very quick

680
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:12,600
pace.
So, I thought that was

681
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,699
interesting and I not to rain on
your parade or anything.

682
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:18,199
But I do feel like Angie's in
Harvard's could raise 500

683
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:24,500
million fund to invest in
literal picks and shovels, dude.

684
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:29,000
I think you're exactly right.
You know, I've got this great,

685
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,300
this great icon of picks and
shovels that I use in some

686
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,000
presentations for folks and I
think I might just swap out that

687
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,600
a 16z logo and I I think going
forward and put picks and

688
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,800
shovels in there because you're
right.

689
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,199
Some tell me this.
Before we wrap up water, you're

690
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,100
reading at the moment.
So I mentioned earlier but being

691
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,199
too tired to read, but I do have
a couple of interest in one's

692
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:49,000
going to work my way through you
reading, anything good.

693
00:34:49,800 --> 00:35:04,000
I am reading something called
something about a moth creative

694
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,500
Capital.
No, but she was to keep all this

695
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:10,100
stuff in.
Ya know who be funny.

696
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,000
I'm looking at my kids book list
right now because that's taken

697
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,500
over my Kindle because they're
now reading that it's not Harry

698
00:35:16,500 --> 00:35:18,200
Potter.
It's not shaking the fourth

699
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,700
Industrial Revolution.
It's something about a fucking

700
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:25,300
moth.
Where is he?

701
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,000
The second.
The Lonely Planet innovators

702
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
dilemma.
Second bounce.

703
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,100
The ball.
Pedro Flash, Boys.

704
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:34,400
Yeah.
I'm going right through it.

705
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,900
I don't know.
Oh, and what are you reading?

706
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:39,500
What am I reading?
I read two books.

707
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,000
I'm trying to make my way to two
books and about really good,

708
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:48,300
slow reads, one is dollars and
cents which is by Don arale.

709
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,900
He's the kind of be some really
popular, TED talks about

710
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:55,400
behavioral, finance and he's
worked with.

711
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,700
I think he works currently with
with lemonade or has advised

712
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:00,700
them.
Yes, he's written a number of

713
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:03,100
books.
Very funny that can be put in,

714
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:04,600
check out his dad dollars and
cents.

715
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,300
So it's how people Miss think
money and had to spend smarter,

716
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:10,800
but he said, Like scientists, so
it's fascinating but he's really

717
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,000
interesting characters once and
she listened to some of the TED

718
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,600
Talks because he is very funny.
So it's an interesting one and

719
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,600
then the other one is because I
have a slight just to make sure

720
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,300
I get the guy's name, right?
I spotted, this one was

721
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:26,600
recommended to meet Amazon.
Thank you Amazon.

722
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:29,200
It's called talking to my
daughter, a brief history of

723
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:34,000
capitalism.
So it's by yanis varoufakis.

724
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,200
Who was the former Finance
Minister for Greece at the time

725
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,100
of the hell.
Yeah.

726
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:40,800
Yeah crisis, so he's pretty
left-wing.

727
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,400
He's like supposedly one of the
prominent Economist Finance

728
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,000
ministers in Europe or had been
any very well respected and it

729
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,100
was a joy.
It's an interesting one because

730
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:54,500
it's a really what he does is he
like he's writing or he's

731
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:57,200
actually writing a conversation
to his 15-year old daughter, but

732
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:02,300
he's explaining in relatively
simple terms about how we Comics

733
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,900
works and why it's the most
important drama or a times but

734
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:09,500
he uses a whole lot of things
like use as Sister, he passed

735
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,500
Frankenstein.
The Matrix all these sort of

736
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:14,400
things to just explain different
country concept.

737
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:17,900
So when I go, I studied
economics as part of my degree

738
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,600
all those years ago, but like, I
don't think I really got it in

739
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,200
the sense of, you know, the
practical sense of it.

740
00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:26,100
Yeah, but no one's really
interesting.

741
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:28,500
I'll have a look at.
I have a look at both of those.

742
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,800
I was able to find the name of
the book that I am actually

743
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,200
reading right now.
So it's called it's called moth

744
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,400
smoke, the first novel by mohsin
Hamid, author of The Reluctant

745
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,600
Fundamentalist.
So I read The Reluctant

746
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,300
Fundamentalist first and both
books are kind of a look at

747
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:50,100
their fiction and it's a look at
culture in Pakistan.

748
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:53,900
And those that are still there,
those that have left.

749
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:59,200
And what the impact of how
people are raised there is on

750
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,400
their looks like they're longer
term relationships.

751
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,100
Right?
So, you know, just taking a bit

752
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:09,600
of a shift away from all the
books about VC and startups,

753
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:14,300
just to refuel the creativity.
And like we said before, give me

754
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:18,400
more of a lateral wide view and
let me to allow me to breathe

755
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,500
through my eyelids once again,
alright, well, we'll wrap it up

756
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:24,700
there.
It was great to dive into In 222

757
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:30,200
fintech to challenge your Banks
and books that I just couldn't

758
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:31,600
remember it.
So, thank you.

759
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,100
Thank you.
Alright, so talk to me.

760
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,600
That wraps it up folks.
Thanks for listening to us.

761
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,600
Try to figure out why the world
does what it does.

762
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:48,100
The links for the stories.
We covered, or in the show notes

763
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:50,300
for this episode on money, never
sleeps that IE.

764
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:52,700
So check us out online.
Remember, if you are a colleague

765
00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:55,000
deed help, attracting retaining
great talent or your fin Tech or

766
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,600
Financial Service Company.
It is highly advisable that you

767
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,500
build a relationship with the
team at top-tier recruitment, is

768
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:01,600
a really know their stuff.
You can find them at top-tier

769
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,100
recruitment.com.
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy,

770
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,900
from create sound for recording
and editing this podcast.

771
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,700
As for me, I increase the odds
of startup success.

772
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,800
DM me on Twitter at Pete
Townsend and V.

773
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,900
If you want to know more, you
can following on Twitter at 0

774
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:18,600
and Fitzgerald nine finally till
next time.

775
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,000
Thanks for listening.
See you.