073: Positivity - Ivailo Jordanov and 7Percent Ventures

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Never sleeps pal.
Hey there.

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Welcome to money, never sleeps
podcast, it looks inside the

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head of entrepreneurs and it
what makes them do what they do.

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I'm Pete Townsend your co-host
of money.

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Never sleeps, along with a still
on the lam own Fitzgerald, but

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we should have a back next week.
This episode of money.

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Never sleeps, is kindly
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and financial services
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Your colleague me help,

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tell him we sent you in this
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We talk to a vile.
Oh, Jordan off a venture partner

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covering blockchain and crypto
with 7% ventures in London, who

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I met last year, an investor
dinner given where I'm headed

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with norio, Ventures towards
becoming an early-stage Tech

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investor.
I'm continuing to build my

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network of like-minded people
investing in early-stage tech

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companies.
What better way to get to know

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people and exploring We both
look for in early-stage Tech

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then immortalizing one of our
discussions on an episode of

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this podcast and that share it,
with all of you, our listeners,

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to have you look inside the
mindset of the entrepreneurial

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ecosystem.
So let's just dig right in with

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a viola Jordan off and this
week's episode of money, never

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sleeps.
Here we go again.

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Welcome to money, never sleeps.
Recording today from the home

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studio and we have availa Jordan
off.

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Venture partner with 7% Ventures
on the show. today, who's on,

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from London, welcome to the show
of I lo Thank you very much.

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Thanks for having me.
Awesome.

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So if I do, we met in October
after corticon as my pal G Rod,

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Ford from our checks invited us
both to an investor dinner.

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We had the briefest of chats but
I really felt like we connected

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quickly.
I really like the story behind

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the name 7% which I'm sure
you'll share and we'll get into

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that a bit but let's just get
started with you sharing your

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back story.
How you got to this point?

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Sure, sure.
So I was, I was born in Bulgaria

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and I was born in a family of
Engineers.

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So there was always all these
gadgets at home and stuff like

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that.
So, I got into technology early

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on.
I was always tinkering with a

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soldering iron since the age of
about 10 and messing on the

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computer coding and stuff like
that.

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So I developed a passion for,
you know, programming and

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electronics and things like that
when I was 15 years old, Old, I

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moved to South Africa to
Johannesburg, which is I always

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say I grew up there because I
spend between 15 and 25 that age

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day, which is, you know, quite
important in one's life that and

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I studied there at University.
I did a computer science and

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Applied Mathematics degree and
at the same time, I worked for a

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very forward-looking company.
It was a, it was an internet

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service.
Provider that was bringing

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internet into Africa, but the
interesting thing about it was

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that That they were in when I
say forward thinking it's more

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about the way, how they treated
their stuff, like we, the

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companies to buy lunch for
everybody every day.

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Something that back in that day
was very uncommon.

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Now, all the cool companies are
doing it but at the time, you

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know, nobody did.
And so these guys were thinking

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about everything, we had an
awesome to room with pool tables

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and you know ping, pong tables,
and Flip, Flip ball machines.

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A bar that was open on Fridays
and stuff like that, and they

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really ran the whole thing as a
big family as a big, Immunity

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which was super exciting.
It gave me a viewing to sort of

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growing this company and then
ultimately the company was

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acquired, so it showed me the
first acquisition quite

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interesting how the parking lot
got filled very quickly with

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pretty expensive.
Two-seater cars with no roofs.

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Yeah, after the acquisition that
was in 1999 and so in 2010, I

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decided to move to London, and
it was again, with a friend of

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mine.
He Called me and he said, look,

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I've joined this new startup in
London and I need somebody to

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had my development for me.
You know.

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Are you interested in the
position?

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I was like, what is this
startup?

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And he was basically he kind of
said, well it's the next year

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who so you know, that time Yahoo
was something quite hot and and

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Matthew was interested in
joining the next Yahoo.

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So I came over and office was in
The Truman Brewery and I came in

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my first day We got there and I
was like, okay, I'm here to help

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the development team and where's
my team and he looked at me said

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earlier, it was like, what do
you mean?

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This is what we're a start-up.
We don't have a lot of money, so

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you're the development team for
the time being.

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So basically, I had to develop
pretty much all the technology

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it was at the time was a what's,
what now is very common

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obviously with Google Adwords
but at the time it was a

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pay-per-click search engine.
It was what Google is today with

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the AdWords.
So we enabled people to bid on

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the keywords that are relevant
to their business and based on

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the amount that they were
bidding.

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We obviously showed them higher
up in the results and that was

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in the year 2000 that was in
2000.

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So they were they were they were
there were two companies doing

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that at the time one of them was
called overture in the stage.

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It was a company that came out
of idea Labs which was one of

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the hot incubators at the time
and the other one was us

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essentially.
Yep.

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And so We build up to take in
the initial idea, was that we

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were going to be a b2c company.
So we were going to have the

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advertisers pay for the clicks
and we're going to build it as a

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search engine and drive traffic
to it on a consumer basis.

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Over time, we realized that
actually that game is kind of

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over.
It will be very difficult

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without, you know, huge amounts
of financing to do that.

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And so we went the, the B2B
route where we then provided our

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results, to the search engines
to the large search engines at

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the time.
And so, we Deduct powering Yahoo

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we ended up powering us Jeeves
at the time.

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Was a big, big engine that was
used quite commonly like or

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south of Vista.
Pretty much powered, all the

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large search engines.
The interesting thing about

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that, was that actually on a
technical level?

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It was quite a hard problem to
solve because effectively we

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were taking the load of all the
search engines and running a

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real-time auction on, ordering
the results.

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Wow.
Which was equivalent to sort of

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3,000?
He's per second and ordering the

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results based on how much people
were bidding, how relevant the

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search was.
We were doing a lot of

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linguistic processing to deal
with misspellings and all of

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that stuff.
So, on a technical level, it

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was, it was, it was quite a
solid problem to solve.

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There was no such thing as
Amazon, AWS at the time, we

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literally ran our own servers.
We had our own racks and we go

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used to go at night and replace
processors or drives when they

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fail and and things like that
and the When he developed quite

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well, you know, when I joined I
was the seventh person to to

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join the team.
By the time we got Acquired and

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I'll cover that a little bit,
but it was a two hundred in

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Eighty people company, across
all the European countries.

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We went to a number of funding
rounds at the time, we see

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rounds, private rounds and
eventually we got acquired by a

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NASDAQ listed company called
find what which were doing the

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same as us and they had I be
owed and basically they acquired

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it.
They wanted to be the one

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exposure to Europe, effectively,
but in the process, we went

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through.
Acquisition talks, with Yahoo,

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they did the food due diligence
with us.

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We went to it, I could to track
position talks with Overture who

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ultimately ended up being
acquired by Yahoo.

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So it gave me a real view as to
sort of building a company from

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pretty much zero all the way to
an acquisition working with an

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amazing team.
The nice thing about it is that

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because we were kind of
developing quite well, we ended

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up on A hiring friends and
Friends of Friends.

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It was, it was you know the
company grew up to 100 people

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just by getting friends on
board.

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And so it's sort of the culture
of the company was amazing

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because everybody was somebody's
friend.

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And obviously, that created a
very kind of a good environment.

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Everybody was out together all
the time.

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Lots of friendships or fostered
and stuff like that.

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On the flip side, obviously
we're building it from 2000.

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We got acquired in 2004 and The
2000 was known as the.com,

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winter.
So as our CEO was always saying,

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it was like learning how to ski
on Ice everybody around us was

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going bust.
I remember when I came to work

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for my first day, there was a
building in the Truman Brewery

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on Brick Lane which the whole
thing was full of startups by

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2003.
We were the only company there,

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everything else completely
empty.

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Everybody else had gone bust
which Was, you know, which was,

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which was quite tragic in a way,
but it gave us this opportunity

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to learn, you know, how to do
things in a bad time.

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Because, you know, that's where
you really, really kind of Excel

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and, you know, taking this
experience a little bit to my

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investing and sort of, you know,
monitoring a lot of companies.

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It does seem a lot of companies
that make it big.

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They tend to all of them have
gone through a period of time,

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where you don't know, if the
lights are going to be on

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tomorrow, and it's really the
ability of the team to take this

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and to turn it around where
whether it's No, pivoting the

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company, whether it's finding
additional Capital, you know,

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all of these things combined,
that's what really shows, how

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strong companies are, and that's
what we went through this.

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We didn't know, you know, there
were certain days where we

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didn't know if salaries will be
paid.

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We were.
There were days where we didn't

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know if the administrators would
be would be called in and that

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kind of stuff and we just, you
know, the team persevered and

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nobody ran away to a more secure
environment and, you know,

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everything kind of worked out
really well. 2004.

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We got acquired, the acquisition
was quite large for the time.

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It seems nowadays, you know, an
acquisition of this size would

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be laughed at and they'll say
what went wrong.

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But at the time it was a hundred
and nineteen seventy four

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million dollar acquisition which
you know, certainly I spied on

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the on the, on the high scale
with the at the time.

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So yeah.
And since then, I kind of worked

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across a number of areas.
Some after that acquisition, I

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took some time off.
I was lucky that I had good

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exposure to the upside of the
company.

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So I was able Take some time
off.

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And I realize that actually time
off is not for me.

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I got bored with, you know,
daytime TV and, you know, sort

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of yeah visiting people at work
and having lunches and, you

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know, everybody has to go to
work and I, you know, have

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nothing to do.
So I decided to join a large

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corporate for a little bit.
I joined the company where I was

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looking after they wanted to
transition.

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They had a large business to
business search engine and they

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wanted to transition from a On
base model to a

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performance-based model which
was very interesting, very much

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up my street because that what
that's what I have been doing

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for the last five years, but I
realized that corporate life

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isn't for me.
And since then I've been in

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startups, I started startup
immediately after I left, there,

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we started it.
We got some VC funding after the

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initial round was Angel than VC
funding.

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Ultimately, it was in real
estate.

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And when the real estate crisis,
hit the startup was Sold to the

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TNT mirror but it was more of a
fire sale than successful exit

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on chest.
And but that kind of reaffirmed

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that that what I want to do is
work at startups, work with

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startups, and then in 2010, a
close friend of mine and I

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decided to start an incubator
where we would just look at

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ideas that we like build up the
product tested against the

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market to see if there's a
business there.

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And if there is a business,
Launch to the separate business.

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Ideally funded externally for
growth and let it go.

226
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And we had a couple of companies
that that failed.

227
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We had a number of successes and
at the same time, we also looked

228
00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:16,200
at investing in companies and in
the idea was that we're looking

229
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for companies where we could
provide capital and also provide

230
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support.
Mainly on the technology side

231
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,000
through the process, we could
build a Very strong development

232
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team in Bulgaria.
Which was a team that worked for

233
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:33,800
us.
So they were in our offices,

234
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they were all kind of employed
directly and so it enabled us to

235
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go to companies and say look,
you know, putting some Capital

236
00:12:41,500 --> 00:12:46,000
but also what we can do is take
care of development for you, in

237
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,900
our development, team in
Bulgaria.

238
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,000
And so we did that with a number
of companies.

239
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We had one that was a great
success.

240
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It's still running now.
Oh, the day team is still housed

241
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,100
in Bulgaria where we built it
for them is grown sort of, you

242
00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:05,900
know, from 2012 when we invested
with three founders.

243
00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:09,500
And now it's about 30 people
going, very strong.

244
00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:12,500
And in some of our companies,
again, some of them failed in,

245
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:14,800
some of them are still running
and then yeah.

246
00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:18,100
In the process I got quite
involved with blockchain and

247
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:20,600
crypto crypto to begin with and
then blockchain can going

248
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:25,700
forward more from personal
interest.

249
00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:30,400
And as it sort of became bigger
and, you know, started to make a

250
00:13:30,408 --> 00:13:33,100
lot of a lot more noise and
waves, when it, you Liam came

251
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:36,800
out a lot of VCS got in touch
and I started talking to a lot

252
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,800
of them kind of helping them
figure out what they should be

253
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,900
doing in the space, if anything
and one of the funds were seven

254
00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:44,500
percent.
And so, I joined them as a

255
00:13:44,508 --> 00:13:49,400
venture partner to help shape
the, the thinking about it and

256
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,700
bringing some interesting deals
to the table are Chuck's.

257
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,500
Being one of them.
I did an angel investment in our

258
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,400
checks and then, you know, now
we're We're doing the follow on

259
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,400
through the fund which isn't
relate to my to my personal

260
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,600
investment but actually it was
always the idea that the fund

261
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,300
was going to look at it.
And so yeah, I was working as a

262
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:10,500
venture partner, part-time while
still involved with our

263
00:14:10,500 --> 00:14:14,300
businesses and I've recently
joined them full-time now, with

264
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:18,900
very good kind of the growth of
blockchain and crypto to look at

265
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:22,300
the space really interesting
background.

266
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:26,000
If I log thinking, you know, I
was trying to, you know, take a

267
00:14:26,008 --> 00:14:28,600
look at LinkedIn profile before
we started talking today.

268
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,400
With there being a lot on there
obviously across all these

269
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,900
different companies.
It makes a lot of sense.

270
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:38,100
Now, given that after going
through those probably first

271
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:40,200
five years, after college,
right?

272
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,000
We're in the like you said,
being number 7 in the door,

273
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,900
learning everything from Soup To
Nuts in terms of startup land

274
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,800
all the way right through to
acquisition and exit taking some

275
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,300
time off.
And then figuring out that you

276
00:14:53,308 --> 00:14:57,000
still had the bug that this was
just going to be something that

277
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,700
you kept doing.
And was the the residential

278
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:02,300
property search engines?
Umph?

279
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:03,200
Yeah.
Thank you.

280
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,300
Then exited.
Yep.

281
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:07,900
And then the business, you start
it up to advise startups and to

282
00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:11,800
kind of incubate them very
crystal clear my Journeys quite

283
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,500
similar, although over a bit of
a different timeframe.

284
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,900
But yeah, it's that bug that
just keeps getting at you but

285
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,100
then you mentioned the word
upside as well.

286
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,700
Upside is incredibly important
when you're doing this right.

287
00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:26,200
Yep.
Knowing that that is there.

288
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:32,100
And then it sounds like, you
know you went through okay

289
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:36,000
figuring out blockchain figuring
out crypto Theory and being part

290
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,400
of that journey and then let you
know right into seven percent,

291
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,500
perhaps some Angel investments
before that so yeah, really cool

292
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:45,600
story.
I like that.

293
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:46,400
Cool.
Thank you.

294
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,500
Yeah.
When did you kind of realize

295
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,600
along this journey?
Probably from you know 2010

296
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,800
forward when you have been
advising and Number of different

297
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,400
companies, you're able to kind
of get a good understanding of

298
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,600
their value proposition, get
some good Cadence and repetition

299
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,300
across listening to different
companies and trying to help

300
00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:11,200
them figuring out their path to
Market.

301
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:14,700
When did you realize that?
This was something that you

302
00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:17,900
might have some good skills at
essentially.

303
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:20,700
I am generally like an optimist.
I always kind of think of

304
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:24,200
companies as you know, this is
a, this is, this is great.

305
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:26,200
And yeah, we're going to
anything big.

306
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,000
And whatever in sexually, when I
say to realize, when I can dial

307
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,400
down, my excitement was
probably, the more important

308
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,100
time because, you know,
initially obviously when I was

309
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:40,600
doing especially Angel Investing
or thinking of ideas, I always

310
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,400
wanted to do everything because
everything sounded so exciting

311
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,600
and such a big opportunity.
But it's actually when you start

312
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,300
to really dial it down and you
think, Okay this may be a very

313
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:53,200
exciting problem to work on and,
you know, technologically

314
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,700
challenging or in any other way
challenging and And and

315
00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,800
interesting.
But is this a real business?

316
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,500
You know, is this actually going
to pay back the effort and the

317
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,800
capital that goes into it.
And when I started to kind of be

318
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,700
better at picking, even if I
didn't actually follow through

319
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:10,700
on an investment or anything
little bit, almost mentally

320
00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:13,300
picking where things would be
quite exciting.

321
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:15,900
Sometimes it was a liquidity
issue where I couldn't put in

322
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:18,400
capital into a company, but I
knew that it would be probably

323
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,700
pretty good and other times it
was actually saying, no to a

324
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:23,099
company that actually sounds
exciting.

325
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:25,500
I'm in love with the team and,
you know, really think they're

326
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:28,099
cool but actually looking The
business I just, you just didn't

327
00:17:28,099 --> 00:17:33,700
didn't click, you know, it's
that time that I realized

328
00:17:33,700 --> 00:17:36,900
actually that is more important
to be able to be more critical

329
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,800
and figure out what isn't going
to turn into a business and that

330
00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,500
apply to us as well.
You know, we made a lot of

331
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:44,600
mistakes when we're running the
incubator, we got excited we

332
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:49,100
build a lot of things to a
certain level and that's when we

333
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,200
realized this not really a
business here even though it's a

334
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,900
very nice thing to do.
It just is really just a nice

335
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:56,100
hobby.
Yeah.

336
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,800
Yeah, I know what you mean when
it's you and your partner and

337
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,600
it's really hard to kind of get
that scalability of.

338
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,000
Okay, were pretty good at
something.

339
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,000
But how can you actually bring
in another 10 people that you

340
00:18:07,008 --> 00:18:09,200
would be can be good at
something as well?

341
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,800
Yeah, that makes sense to
actually be able to do this at

342
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:13,700
scale.
Correct.

343
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:20,400
In the one thing that I learned
is actually it's much harder to

344
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,000
distribute the product then to
actually build a product.

345
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,900
And that, you know, because you
know, building a product is not

346
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:29,300
easy, obviously getting the
right requirements from users

347
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,300
and understanding what they
want.

348
00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:34,700
But, you know, it does, it does
actually end up happening with

349
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:37,500
most teams, but actually, where
teams do feo is actually

350
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,900
Distributing their product.
And so, in my mind, I always try

351
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:44,000
to link this distribution to, to
building the product.

352
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,100
So that's why I always look at.
For example, if we look at

353
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:48,200
companies in a look at the
product people.

354
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,600
And my first question is, are
these product people good at

355
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,400
understanding marketing and then
the vice versa, look at them.

356
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,700
Cooking team and go.
You know, the testes are these

357
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:58,900
marketing people good at
understanding product because

358
00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:02,400
nowadays, marketing and product
are very much joining two one.

359
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,900
You know, you can't have
isolation anymore where your

360
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:06,600
marketing people are just
bringing people to the door and

361
00:19:06,608 --> 00:19:08,200
then lifting their hands and
going.

362
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,400
Okay, they're yours now or the
product if you just building

363
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,400
teams and not actually thinking,
how does that actually go into

364
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,400
the distribution?
And how do you maximize the

365
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,000
output of the distribution
spend?

366
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:21,700
Yep.
Yep.

367
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,800
I'm with you.
I'm with you.

368
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:27,900
Tell me, tell me about 7% and
tell me about the thesis there

369
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:29,400
and how you guys are executing
that.

370
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,400
Yeah.
So we look at mainly to these

371
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,300
two different types of
businesses.

372
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,900
One of them is a
transformational business, where

373
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,700
a piece of technology is being
applied to usually a laggard

374
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:46,300
market something where, you
know, you can capture a lot of

375
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:48,600
value by either removing a lot
of middleman or a lot of

376
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,000
process.
And and, and putting a business

377
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,400
that basically captures that
value yearly.

378
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,900
Shrinks it and captures a large
part of it.

379
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,100
You know, a good example, would
be one of our portfolio

380
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:02,300
companies Flex Port.
There, the one of the top

381
00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:05,300
Freight forwarders in the world,
but they started by creating

382
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:07,200
software for the freight
forwarding industry.

383
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,700
And basically, they captured the
remove, the number of the

384
00:20:11,708 --> 00:20:14,700
middleman, in the industry and
captured captured, all of that

385
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,500
value there.
And ultimately it has to be a

386
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,800
large industry with a huge
potential.

387
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,700
We always talk about a billion
dollar.

388
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:28,000
Potential.
The second area that we look at

389
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,900
is Frontier technology.
So, this is where the problem is

390
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,200
strictly technical.
You need to have a team that

391
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,500
understands intimately the
technology that needs to be

392
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:38,700
built and obviously it's
application.

393
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:43,100
But ultimately, the application
has to be in sort of billion or

394
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,400
trillion dollar dollar
Industries.

395
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:50,600
One of the benefits that we have
as a team is that we're all

396
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,700
entrepreneurs.
And so we know, Um, enough about

397
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,600
running companies to be able to,
kind of see how the team is

398
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,600
going to put this together, how
it's going to work out and

399
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,800
enough about the risk we
optimize for upside potential.

400
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:10,400
As opposed to downside risk, a
lot of, you know, we talked a

401
00:21:10,408 --> 00:21:13,100
lot of investors of this year.
Very often, you know, people are

402
00:21:13,108 --> 00:21:15,800
more focused on what's the
downside risk and, you know,

403
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,200
they always say oh, it's too
early for me to come in and

404
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,900
things like that and you know,
that's as fine as a thesis.

405
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:23,900
But, you know, if you want to
get sort of the The runway

406
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:27,200
successes, you know, you do need
to take a larger risk.

407
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,800
So you know, it's an early stage
investor, we appreciate that.

408
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,800
There will be a number of
casualties in our portfolio but

409
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,200
optimizing for an upside
potential positions us to

410
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,100
capture the the The Runaway
success has effectively.

411
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,700
So that's, you know, one of the,
one of the things that we always

412
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:48,000
look at is as a company.
What is the true upside and, and

413
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,800
what does that actually do for
our portfolio?

414
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,600
If you just came through?
We treat our businesses as a Is

415
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,600
this where the startups that we
invest in reason to start of

416
00:21:56,608 --> 00:21:58,000
that?
We talk to even if we pass on

417
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,600
something that's ultimately our
customer you know, we want

418
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,100
everybody to walk away with the
right experience, you know, even

419
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:07,000
if we don't invest in a company,
we always try to a be very quick

420
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,000
at it saying.
This is not for us rather than

421
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,600
wasting a lot of time of there's
with meetings and, you know,

422
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,900
research and that kind of stuff.
We try to be the first people to

423
00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:19,600
say, it's not for us, it's not
for us.

424
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:22,900
We try to give constructive
feedback of what we think would

425
00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:24,200
make it more.
More suitable for us.

426
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,200
If anything or if it's just not
the sector that they're in, we

427
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,600
quite open about it.
And ultimately, the founders

428
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,400
that we invest what is the right
experience that they should have

429
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,100
with us as an early stage
investor, how can they make sure

430
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,900
that they can get the maximum
value added in the capital from

431
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:43,400
somebody like us be at
introductions be at support, bit

432
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,300
help with anything.
We always try to be as involved

433
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,500
as they want us.
To be never really be asking for

434
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,100
more than what they need.
But always try to help with

435
00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:55,700
whatever.
Can and is that something that

436
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:59,200
you guys do, as kind of a
formulaic platform?

437
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,900
Or is this whoever's doing the
deal?

438
00:23:01,900 --> 00:23:03,500
Whichever Partners doing the
deal?

439
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,200
Takes on that responsibility?
No, we do it.

440
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,500
We do it across across the
across the fund.

441
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:12,500
I mean, we're still a small
team, but, you know, we whoever

442
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:17,400
is the most, the best suited
person to take a look and help

443
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,100
them.
We also have a number of fund,

444
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,700
advisers effectively an advisory
network.

445
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,900
The interesting thing about our
advisory network is that they

446
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,600
are all LPS in the fund as well
as in our advisory network.

447
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,200
So they're quite high profile
people.

448
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,600
We haven't announced the network
yet, but we are able to connect

449
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,200
our startups to them to get a
second opinion on certain

450
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200
things.
The main thing about it is that,

451
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:43,500
you know, ultimately, we've got
certain skills but we don't know

452
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:45,400
everything in the world.
And so through this advisory

453
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,000
network, we are able to connect
them to to the startups that

454
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,300
need certain advice and
ultimately have them listen to

455
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,400
What the problem at the problems
are and help them navigate

456
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,900
through them, all of the
problems that today today the

457
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:03,000
startups are having or of the
issues that they need help with

458
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,100
somebody said no before, there's
not that much new stuff and less

459
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:09,800
obvious is a breaking, some new
ground and so we try to ensure

460
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,100
that our advisory network is
strong enough to to help them

461
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,800
through whatever the issues are.
Yeah, my favorite question that

462
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,100
I get from blockchain companies
that no one able, no one seems

463
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:23,300
able to answer and it's okay
that they're not.

464
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,100
Yeah, is that when you got a
corporate coming in saying

465
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:27,300
listen really love what you're
doing.

466
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:29,400
Love the whole distributed
Ledger impact to that.

467
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,400
But what are you going to do
with Quantum Computing when it

468
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,600
can break the cryptography of
what you built?

469
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:36,400
You know, it's like well we're
not there yet, you know, if are

470
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,500
away from their yeah.
So what do you think that you

471
00:24:40,508 --> 00:24:43,900
guys can see that others may not
be able to see and is that

472
00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:48,300
something you can kind of Link?
Back to your time, between 2000

473
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:52,800
and 2005, frightened, the at the
Bare Bones level of building a

474
00:24:52,808 --> 00:24:57,000
business that you kind of, then
take and drive into how you

475
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,200
assess companies and how you're
working with them.

476
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,700
So, you know, the one thing I
mentioned earlier is, is the

477
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:07,900
ability of the company to
distribute their product and the

478
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,500
ability of the team to be linked
across whoever touches.

479
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:15,400
Your first customer be at a
sales guy via the, an advert for

480
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,100
consumer.
Sizzle, whatever the case may

481
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:20,700
be, whoever actually makes the
product decisions is that link

482
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:24,100
in that and and that
connectivity within there, that

483
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:27,200
is the most important thing.
Because, you know, we see a lot

484
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,400
of businesses that have a great
product and nobody's using it

485
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,600
and it's not because nobody
needs to use it, it's just

486
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,300
they're not putting it in front
of the people.

487
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,000
The right people with the right
in the right, in the right way.

488
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,300
And then you have the flip side
where the product is mediocre,

489
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:41,800
but they have an incredibly
strong salespeople sales team

490
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,700
that that drives people into the
product.

491
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:48,000
And, and it actually,
Accelerates the, the you see.

492
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,400
So we always look for.
How are they thinking about

493
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,400
distribution?
How are they thinking about?

494
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,200
Who is going to connect it to
customers, who's going to listen

495
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,500
to customers customer requests.
And actually, ultimately build

496
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:04,600
the best product that is
difficult to displace by a

497
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,500
competitor.
That's the one thing obviously.

498
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,000
As everybody says, you know,
teams important we get quite

499
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,200
involved with the team mainly
because we're also

500
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,500
enterpreneurs, we can kind of
listen to their problems.

501
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:19,300
We try Help them in advise them
as much as as much as possible

502
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:23,100
and ensure that they feel like
this is a good Network for them

503
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:25,200
that they will be supported
especially when we're in a

504
00:26:25,208 --> 00:26:27,800
competitive deal.
That other VCS are looking at,

505
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,000
as well, we need to, you know,
our aim is to ensure that they

506
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,400
understand that they'll get all
the support they need and

507
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:36,300
whatever, we can help them with.
And then ultimately the

508
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,200
technology, you know, we have a
very strong technology

509
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,700
understanding.
And if you looking at a deep

510
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,500
take business, it's easier for
us to understand the the

511
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:47,000
technology.
See how they building at the

512
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,400
viability of it, and ultimately
the application and either to

513
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,000
ourselves or through our
advisory network, where we have

514
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,300
some very strong technologists,
we're able to assess what's

515
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:00,300
happening and understand what is
the opportunity there.

516
00:27:00,700 --> 00:27:04,600
Gotta make sense and given that
I expect that you're investing.

517
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,700
Both pre-revenue and
pre-product.

518
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:07,500
Yeah?
Right.

519
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,900
Is there kind of a formula there
to say?

520
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,600
Well, I can see a lot of good
momentum here that they're

521
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,200
building.
Do you look for letters of

522
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,100
intent to you?
For conversations with

523
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:20,900
prospective customers.
How do you get that warm fuzzy

524
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,000
feeling that?
Yes, there will be revenue and

525
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,900
enough of it before my money
runs out.

526
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,900
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly
right.

527
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,300
You know, a lot of companies
that we see that we're that we

528
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,200
really liked the approach is
they're talking to their

529
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,400
customer before the first line
of code is being written.

530
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,700
The most important thing is
that, you know, you could get

531
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:43,000
very much sucked into this
customer research and do it

532
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200
forever, you know?
And and often In.

533
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,100
That's a sign of
procrastination.

534
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:51,500
So you got to find the right
balance of how much you want to

535
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,500
talk to customers versus when
you actually start building.

536
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:57,100
So we look for that, who's done
enough, research, who died

537
00:27:57,100 --> 00:27:59,600
enough testing, you know, it's
not difficult nowadays to almost

538
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,100
test your idea by by trying to
get people, to sign up to a

539
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:04,800
waiting list or something like
that.

540
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,200
We have companies that we're
looking at, for example, that

541
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,700
have built an Advisory Board
from specialist in the industry,

542
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:13,500
which they will be targeting
already before.

543
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:18,000
Even their product is complete.
So, So really that is quite

544
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,000
quite a good indication that
they've done their research,

545
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,900
they know what they're doing,
they're in touch with the

546
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:26,100
industry, so they shaping the
product as it goes.

547
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:28,200
And ultimately the aim is to
ship early.

548
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,800
They have a trusted boarding,
it's not always possible in some

549
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,100
Industries.
You can't actually ship a

550
00:28:33,108 --> 00:28:35,600
product, that's not complete,
but in others.

551
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,000
You can actually start testing
early prototypes with people

552
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,200
from the industry.
So we look for all of that to

553
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,200
understand, you know.
Are they doing it completely in

554
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,300
isolation?
Or are they working with People

555
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:48,100
that will ultimately be their
user.

556
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,000
Okay, gotcha.
And what keeps you going on the

557
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800
tough days available?
I'm, I guess.

558
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,400
An eternal optimist.
So I always get excited about

559
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,100
what's coming and so you know,
you could almost in an

560
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:03,200
optimistic way say that the
tough day, the thing that you

561
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,900
look forward to is when it's
when things get better.

562
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,600
You know and things always get
better you know there's certain

563
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,100
things you can fix like certain
health conditions and stuff.

564
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,700
Everything else is fixable with
the end of the day you know?

565
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:18,300
So I am getting, I get excited.
I Motivated by people, I talk to

566
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:20,900
people who are, you know, like
an energy boost for me.

567
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,100
And, you know, it's nice to kind
of just get a second opinion and

568
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:27,900
stuff but ultimately, you know,
I know that old troubles,

569
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:31,500
ultimately go away.
You know, I've seen a lot in in

570
00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:34,500
my life, I'm 44 now.
So I've been through sort of the

571
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,600
good in the bad times a number
of times, and I know that, you

572
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,800
know, things just get better
and, you know, optimistically

573
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,700
thinking about it, you know,
that just pulls through

574
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:45,100
everything.
Yeah, well they say the Arc of

575
00:29:45,108 --> 00:29:48,700
the universe is Is trending
towards positive and yeah right

576
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000
at all times.
So no I'm with you on that one

577
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:55,900
definitely like-minded in terms
of the optimism and I definitely

578
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:58,300
can understand how that
sometimes can get the better of

579
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:00,600
you.
What would be something that

580
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,500
people wouldn't expect to know
about you?

581
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:06,700
Having grown up in South Africa.
I can't swim which always

582
00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:09,200
surprises people.
You cannot swing up.

583
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:13,400
I cannot swim.
I am not like afraid of water or

584
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,400
anything, but I just, I never
learned how to swim.

585
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:17,800
I don't particularly have the
Earth to learn how to learn how

586
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,300
to swim.
Now, I've got my kids bolting to

587
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:23,400
swimming as early as possible
because it's easier if you learn

588
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,600
it earlier but yeah that's
probably one of the things that

589
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,400
surprised everyone that's funny
because my co-host on Fitzgerald

590
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,300
who's not with us today.
One of the stories that he told

591
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:37,400
the Getting the earliest days of
this podcast was around how when

592
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,100
he was.
I don't know 16 or 17.

593
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:43,200
He was hired as a lifeguard but
he didn't know how to swim.

594
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,800
Wow, that's a yeah, yeah.
So I mean it was a shallow pool

595
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,200
and he's a tall guy, right?
So and luckily he never had to

596
00:30:51,208 --> 00:30:54,300
get in.
But yeah, they kind of a skill

597
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,200
set that you do need.
Now I was a lifeguard myself and

598
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,700
I did do quite a lot of swimming
and I did save maybe in, I don't

599
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:02,900
know, seven, eight years of life
guarding.

600
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:06,100
I I had to jump in the water.
Three times to save a kid.

601
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,400
Yeah.
But, you know, it's kind of

602
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,000
like, you know, that's what
you're there for.

603
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:12,000
Yep.
What's the best way for people

604
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,200
to get in touch with you?
So, email works.

605
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:20,500
Well, I RJ at seven P C.V, see,
you know, ideally, if they get

606
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:23,600
an introduction, I try to
respond to all my all inbound

607
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,600
emails.
If it's a, you know, even if

608
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,500
it's a no, not for not for us if
it's an investment opportunity

609
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:32,700
or any other opportunity.
But if they get an introduction

610
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,500
it'll probably be That quicker
either way, reach out would be,

611
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,600
would be looked at and responded
to.

612
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,600
But if it comes for
introduction, he probably just

613
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:46,500
gets quicker and we get a lot of
inbounds and naturally, as you

614
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:49,400
can imagine it comes through all
sorts of sources, website,

615
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,300
direct LinkedIn.
You know, there's there's lots

616
00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:56,100
of sources so, you know, an
introduction just gets gets

617
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:58,300
slightly prioritized.
But otherwise, the straight

618
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:01,200
email would work.
Yeah, I really do believe in the

619
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,200
intro as well and it almost
can't be It has become cliche

620
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,600
amongst the VC Community.
Oh, warm intro, always helps,

621
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,200
but it's so true.
Because for me, it kind of deer

622
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,400
is things a little bit.
You know, when you do get that

623
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,300
initial contact from someone
that, you know, and some of that

624
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,800
you might have done business
with, or had a good relationship

625
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,200
with her, had a good
conversation with that might

626
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,300
have spent a little bit of time
or know the founder.

627
00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:29,800
Yeah, the of the startup that
they're referring to you, right?

628
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,300
And I totally agree that that
always helps.

629
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,600
But what I also, Try to do is
make sure that I'm not missing

630
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,100
things, you know because it's
not always about the connections

631
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:41,100
you have, it's about the
problems that they're solving

632
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:43,400
and the great teams that may be
behind that, right?

633
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,100
Yeah.
And you know, we see a lot of

634
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:49,700
teams which are great and
certainly fit a number of

635
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:51,700
criteria to be backed in.
Maybe they're just not

636
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,900
disconnected to be able to find
an intro, but doesn't make them

637
00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,100
a bad team.
And so I will always act like,

638
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:58,700
you know, review everything that
comes in.

639
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:01,500
Unfortunately, though, in the
blockchain space, there's a lot

640
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:05,600
of garbage out there.
All the way from, you know,

641
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,100
better ideas which is fine too.
Pure scams, obviously, you know,

642
00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:13,400
it's the the intro kind of at
least helps to weave out the

643
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,500
scam side of things quite well.
Absolutely, absolutely.

644
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,900
Alright.
The viola I think that was a

645
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:22,000
great chat.
I really appreciate you sharing

646
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,100
all that with me and best of
luck with finding the next deal.

647
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:28,100
And building the next billion
dollar business.

648
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:36,400
Cool, thank you very much.
That does it for this week folks

649
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,900
and thanks to Allah for opening
up, his mind, to help us figure

650
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:41,600
out why he does, what he does
links and show notes for this

651
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,800
and all episodes are on money.
Never sleeps, daddy.

652
00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:46,200
So check us out online.
Remember, if you were colleague

653
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,600
need help attracting retaining
great talent for your fintech or

654
00:33:48,608 --> 00:33:51,200
financial services company.
It is highly advisable that you

655
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,900
build a relationship.
The team of top tier recruitment

656
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:55,300
is a really know their stuff you
could find them at top-tier

657
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:58,400
recruitment.com.
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy

658
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,500
from create sound for editing
this podcast.

659
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,900
As for me, I increase the odds
of startup success.

660
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Us get in touch to the contact
page.

661
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,900
I know Avengers.com and you
could follow and on Twitter at

662
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:10,699
Owens Gerald 9.
Finally till next time.

663
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:04,100
Thanks for listening.
See you Us get in touch to the

664
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:06,400
contact page.
I know Avengers.com and you

665
00:34:06,408 --> 00:34:09,100
could follow and on Twitter at
Owens Gerald 9.

666
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,500
Finally till next time.
Thanks for listening.

667
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:12,000
See you