173: Mainstream | Adam Bialy, Fiat Republic and Bridging Banks and Crypto

0:11 Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend, and this is money, never sleeps. We look inside the minds of entrepreneurs, and at the crossover of startups, Enterprise Finance, technology and Life. As We Know It, This episode of money, never sleeps is sponsored by Phillip Lee, one of Ireland's fastest growing corporate law firms in expert, advisors the heart of the Dublin in London startup fintech and crypto communities on the show this week. We've got, I'm Adam, bialy, I'm founder and CEO of fear of public the at Republic or building the compliance, first API driven in, highly secure, and scalable Bridge. Between Banks and crypto in this episode, Adam. And I talked through the experiences that culminated in a vision for Fiat Republic, the current state of play in the relationships between Banks, and crypto platforms that makes Fiat Republic such a strong proposition unique Rudder, that is Adams leadership style. Raising a three and a half million dollar seed round for Fiat, Republican advance of the launch of their MVP or minimum viable product, and the big reveal about what Adam might be doing for Taylor Swift.

1:10 Right now. If you Wasn't leading Fiat Republic. All right, here on muddy. Never sleeps. But listen, Adam, great to have you on the show tonight. Thanks again for joining. This is going to be fun, given that you and I first started talking a few months back and you called me on a Thursday and said, hey Pete. I got my first investor call tomorrow to pitch. And can you just give me a few tips? So we had a chat. I gave a few tips, but I said to you, I said just be aware that 95% of the first conversations. We're going to have for the investor ends with nothing. So here's how to get some value out of it and you know, getting to the know and then perhaps finding some, you know, other things you might be able to do on your pitch. Other investors that they think might be interested in what you're doing.

2:03 And you know, we had a good chat and then you call me the next morning and you're like Pete, they they offered me an investment right away and I got a term sheet coming. I'm like, what? That doesn't happen. It was awesome. So I think that was a good A Bellwether to how, you know, you're early knock on wood progress that you guys have made with getting Fiat Republic going? Yeah, yeah. It's, it's been extraordinary. I mean, I look back to some of those moments and I still, I still can't believe like how fast it all moved. Yep. Totally. But listen, why don't we dig in first to your backstory and just figure out where this all came from first, right? So why don't you just bring us up to speed with how you got to this point in your life and your career? Yeah.

2:47 Yeah. So I started 14 years ago, pretty much on this journey and payments, fintech banking. I think fintech when I started that was 2006 even in circulation as a term, it was banking, right? Yep. You like even payments is a derivative industry of banking. So here I was in Poland polish, you know, first couple of years working for immersion acquire, called elevon. That was a My very first sort of role in payments. And I remember the first, the first year kind of being in thrown into this chargeback department, right? Because it's in a choir, you're getting into the charge, by the department.

3:30 That's basically means you're teaching you everything that can go wrong in a car transaction, and that's how I certainly reading those, you know, thousand-page visa and MasterCard chargeback handling manuals, dispute, resolution and delicious you walk you through like every single bit where and then she Or linking Bank, can raise a challenge, where a cardholder. So the consumer can raise a challenge and how you should handle of this. The perfect baptized by fire spent a year there. I mean, bless them, they're doing well, you know, they're global company. They still have a big office in Ireland are part of us Bancorp. I mean, Global Corporation. I think the training that I got there in just one year was just like astonishing. It was really, you know, prepared me for for the worst as As an in terms of what to expect out of the payments industry after that, I went to a bank verifies and bank is a banking group out of Austria in Vienna at their headquarters in Vienna. But you know, they had a subsidiary bank and Poland. I was originally joined the or operation and raiffeisen Bank looking after crop cards because that's where I came from, like, they were.

4:38 Oh okay. So you spent, you know, a year handling charge backs for a merchant choir. Why don't you help us on the issuing side, right? That was the first gig six months. And they're like, oh no, Adam, I think you're a bit more than what meets the eye. You know, there's the product management department that has been asking about you, why don't you, you know, go and talk to them, right? And, you know, sure enough the week later, I had an interview of the department director of the transaction Bank department and they're like, yeah, we would love you to join. So, I transferred over after six months from an operations Department to a product management department, which is by all means, you know, for all intents and purposes considered as a Business department, right? And there, you know, like a traditional product management role in Banks, it slightly differs from tech product management is more commercial.

5:27 It's, you know, Reading Writing T's and C's preparing pricing, you know, for the different offerings as well as tag but, you know, tag at the time, you know, we're talking 2000-2007 Tech at the time, wasn't, you know, I wasn't in a good place. Yeah, we're still just Beginnings a cloud really at that pigs. They were they were still Mainframe core banking systems were like, you know, really really cumbersome and difficult to change. Right? But yeah it was it was it was that time and it was fascinating because that was in the bank that was considered as a fairly conservative Bank like a Germanic bank right in the middle of the financial crisis.

6:10 2008 2009, this is literally, you know, I was still there and and Poland. Also, you know, to everyone's surprise Was the only country in the EU that had positive like green GDP growth and that time. So we were called The Green Island. Okay. Over European Union. No Ireland. Yeah. Yeah, we still got that claim here. Yeah, but I'll share with you for a little bit. Yeah. And and yeah, and so basically spent, you know, three four years there helping them was transaction, Bank International. Banking is this obscure corporate banking division, that manages corporates, right? And smes, and those complex sort of products invoice, financing factoring payments.

7:00 But like International payments. Like, you know, Mass collections Mass payouts that sort of stuff, right? So it was also a very interesting Learning Journey for me, like, in the core banking, you know, space. So this. Oh yeah. Then I had this brilliant idea of moving to do, okay, fast forward to 12. And I was thinking to myself, I always wanted to live in a English speaking country. You know, I studied Linguistics and focus on English. So I was kind of following what I have had set out to do in my life, I guess. And yeah, and I moved to the UK and my first job in the UK was F, is so another card processing company quite like it. I mean, again, you know, it's a big organization and they have multiple divisions or multiple facets to their business. I was in the debit and prepaid management, and I was a it was a big To step down because I went from product manager to a business analyst, right?

7:51 So it didn't stay long, they're only only three months and then join the cocktail called you cat, which was essentially a alternative payment scheme based on vouchers that had like 19 or 16 digit codes. You would, you know, go to a corner shop exchange of cash for a voucher and then you would pay at participating merchants, right? They were that sort of play and yet they hired me to sort of look after cards and start diversifying away from those vouchers and into Prepaid cards, right? So I actually with you guys, I actually launched one of the first travel money cards in the UK before the era of Revolution. And the explosion of similar propositions in the UK that we're talking about 2013-14 have right.

8:35 And, and it was wildly successful because we managed to, you know, through leveraging, the distribution network of you cash, which was basically taking in cash and different countries in Open and around the world for a voucher. So basically sitting on foreign currency right? Being a UK company having to bring it back to pound out some point. So we figured why don't we just take those millions of Euros or whatever and just and just sell it to British consumers at a profit via a troll money card. They would pre-loaded to travel money card and then go to France and, you know, spend it on wine and Euros, right? Course as you do. Yeah, you do right?

9:17 So it was, it was wild because we didn't have any presence in trouble money or in that market. But for some reason, Martin Lewis picked up the car, it started waving it at ITV and saying, this is the best car that you can possibly buy if you want to go abroad and looks out all of a sudden we went from zero to, you know, 10,000 or 15,000 cards in like, a matter of months. So yeah. It was, it was, it was an interesting, wow, social experiment. But, but yeah, it was it was really, it was really successful and then, You guys got acquired by paysafe in the end. So this is when I left the company and and actually join Sainsbury's. Yeah, I saw that, that was quite a detour but a very important one, you know, for me, and for my career because it made me realize it me, it helped me kind of gain this vantage point back on payments. Back on banking from the perspective of a major retailer, right?

10:11 That is that, is that a Sainsbury's? And this is when I started thinking about, you know, coalition's consortiums. Taking on an established player, which, you know, at that time, you know the supermarkets, don't necessarily appreciate the dominant position that some players have in the payments industry and and they wanted to do something of their own, right? They wanted to take on the big guy and there they were a big enough right to do that. So, anyway, the Sainsbury's, it was a journey from, you know, zero to a head of Department over three years. So, go promote a couple of times, you know, had my team made a lot of impact, you know, I was I was managing stuff. From like point-of-sale payments like at 20,000 taels that they had in stores and then online, you know, payments accepting payments on for groceries online and stuff like that. I actually launched the contactless so the privilege of you going to Sainsbury's and tapping your cards. That's me my team as well.

11:06 But yeah it was it was like obviously Sainsbury's was a bit late to the party but - well I mean considering the circumstances and there was a lot of innovation happening within the They were trying to sort of, you know, virtualize the check out, right, digitalize the check out, put it into the phone and and they started doing those experiments are still doing them with Smart Shop. They have this proprietary technology that allows you to scan items and then check out virtually without even having to visit at. Oh, so I was I was part of that and you know helping them with with payments. Also, one other interesting project. There was a chop shop. It's basically a 60-minute grocery delivery app before the ear of gets her. Her and the, you know, the others gorillas and, and yet still running, it's available in London only. But it allows you to basically order up to 25 items and have it delivered to your doorstep and 60 minutes and is understood as saying this brand, the my role was there, like, I was one of the sort of co-leads looking after payments and the payment, end-to-end payment solution for it, trying to eliminate have, you know, the tale from the equation having, you know, having to integrate the payment.

12:17 To tell and we managed to do it which was, which was quite quite nice. So yeah. After Sainsbury's I went to I went on to help a couple of london-based context, hyper jar, help them, build their MVP. It's like a digital wallet. Proposition After High Bridge or Wi-Fi or now on V. Which is basically a QR code based pay at Table Restaurant payment app. So, something that became popular, especially after covid ordering the ear of covid. Yeah. Because Boris Johnson will see Scanning those on BBC. So, so, help them also build build their MVP. And then, actually, in 2019 landed in YC / project to, you know, bring together supermarkets into a coalition.

13:01 Yeah. That was quite an experience. A lot of learnings, you know, they brainwash through there. Yeah. Just for just for those who don't know why C is Y combinator, which is an accelerator program little one though. Yeah, very small, very small. Yeah, but like the start the stuff that I learned in, you know it's they teach you how to build stuff from scratch with like two hundred thousand dollars, two people and two months, you know and then you know attentively talking to your users and making sure that you stay in touch with what your customer wants and you build up your volleyball. It's really like it's a proper brainwashed. Got a very useful one.

13:42 So after that I joined a company called open paid and this was like my first foray into bank. Use the service. And yeah, that was at the time when I joined open paid, they were looking at multiple different verticals and the entire banking service platform or the entire banking, service industry was sort of trying to figure out area to focus on and where are the biggest problems, right? You know, I remember, you know, we're talking about e-commerce, you know, lending Neo Banks and all the different fintech areas as well as crypto, right? And, you know, having been a Trader myself since the second Boom in 2017. I was a big proponent will still at open bait of tackling the crypto use case, right? But after two years in the company decided to set up my own Venture and essentially incepted an idea to just do banking service and compliances service for cryptocurrency platforms and this is when we see a republic comes into existence and that's the origin.

14:41 Okay, it's amazing. And it's like you're talking me through this Adam. And I like see this full All payments stack historical Evolution. You know basically coming out through your story right? And you know, 2007 feeling the beginnings of it with elavon and then kind of moving through Ops into product management as a technology and industry was developing. And then getting really hardcore into the consumer side with you cash and with sainsbury. And that around about the time, you know, 2014, 15 16. Team were some of these ideals around the Challenger Banks and let's figure out this job to be done for the consumer. And let's develop a proposition for them and you being right in the middle of all that.

15:29 And then I've heard you say, Consortium a couple of times through this, through the rest of that experience and it just it's uncanny. Now we're talking about this, obviously the lead up to Fiat Republic and so naturally that story is going to go in that direction, but it just seems like this has been building up and is such a natural step. For you to take forward? Yeah, yeah. It's been. It's been just Gathering all of those experiences, the different Vantage points, right along the way. And, and I'm always about the journey, I'm not just about the destination, right? So, like the journey that got me to where I'm at right now and the journey that we you know, now as a team, as a republic continue on, right, that is what matters right and in this is the you know, they're in a way, the destination is important because it's the That's the vision. But, but the journey is, you know, and experience that you get and the different Vantage points are or observations. You make are as important as whatever is your destination, absolutely, okay.

16:30 So, tell us you've given us a little hint into a little look into it with, but tell us what Fiat Republic is. And you've talked about the idea a little bit where it came from, but maybe explore that a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sophie Republic is a true High. Hybrid and I like, I always like to sort of pull different pieces of different potentially, Divergent value, propositions together. This is like a tendency that I, you know, that I that I had even when I was at Sainsbury's, you know, I started learning this broadly, you know, different industry which was retail, you know, anecdotally my first week. I remember the first technology team huddle at Sainsbury's and we're talking about what is topping the sales, which is obviously bananas, Jack Daniels and some Organic chicken, right? And of course, and everyone was so proud about that, right? Like, whoa, this is a totally different world, right? This is like the guys here.

17:27 Deep, this is retail, right? This is where we're consumers. Like on a day-to-day basis, massive amounts of them, like huge amounts of them are interacting with brand, so that thinking basically looking at the multiple value propositions from different angles and combining them into one. It is very much the core of Fear public. So this is basically three value props in one. So the first one being back in service, right? Thank you the service sometimes it's still misunderstood is like, what does that mean? Okay, so you're doing banking through apis, like, what is that right? What does that solve like? What is the problem in our world or in, in our view it amounts to aggregation of banking rails?

18:12 Okay, and providing them through one single access point one API, right? You only have to connect once to get access to. I don't know, seven, eight different currencies that are actually provided by AIDS different banks behind the scenes. But you as a customer as a business customer you don't see this. All you have you know all you see is the republic or another bank is a player who gives you a one API to connect to and then allows you to send money through those or keep money on those rails, right? That is back in the service at its core. So aggregation of Inking and payment rails. Second value proposition is given that we are essentially A specialized banking of the service player.

18:56 Specifically specializing on crypto, because there is a massive issue with crypto, right? And I'll expand on on it a little bit more, it is, it is to mostly to do with compliance, right? And lack of understanding world, you know, a crypto platform should be doing to satisfy requirements of banking partners. And now in crypto, you know where This inflection point where feet out. So you know traditional currency is absolutely necessary for crypto to take off in any meaningful manner, right because this is where customers come from. They come from dollars, the only way in the only way that that's the only way and it's an entry Port. I keep saying to some of our partners.

19:38 So without it you really can't do web 3. It is like it doesn't it? We have three doesn't exist without this is not what to, by the way. This is Traditional Bank. King, right? It's, you know managing your money as it bends as been managed for hundreds of years. So that that Clash of Two Worlds. The world of banking or fintech or payments with the world of crypto is creating so much friction. Right now that on the crypto side, it is literally preventing the growth of the industry, right? Because it's this handicap that is put on top of, you know, on top of the biggest Platforms in the world and their growth right there. An old surpass that sort of ceiling if you like because because the traditional world of Finance is it doesn't want to play, right? That is about is the main conflict here. And what that means on the ground for a crypto platform, is they, you know, they cannot connect to Just One banking provider just to cover their basic needs. They would need to connect at least two two or three. Right?

20:39 Because you know we've got GBP Euro dollars. Typically that means two or three Banks. Right? Because there's no one bank that offers one you know, one one Connection to all of all three of those. Then the other one is banks are really, you know, just looking double double clicking on the banks for a moment. Thanks for really scared. Okay, this is a very specific type of fear. It's a fear of unknown, if they're scared of something that they cannot understand. The problem, is that, on the crypto side, the conditions are not favorable to making the bank's understand, what is actually happening in crypto, right? The entire crypto movement comes from all, Let's Take on the banks.

21:22 Let's revolutionize financial services, this adversary, and what we're seeing. Now, this adversarial tone and this sort of adversarial or or, you know, a confrontational approach is really losing, right. It's really something that is subsiding and and you know, big crypto platforms are all waking up to the fact that they have to play by the rules, to be able to innovate and to be able to grow the industry. So, with that problem and expanded on it a bit more. But basically, if you're a public is taking that problem and applying, which we believe is a systemic problem, that handicaps grow from the grape industry, we're addressing it with a systemic solution.

22:03 Okay, the solution being were trying to put pool those biggest crypto players where, you know, because those are the trendsetters, right? Those are the guys that you know, everyone looks up to coinbase everyone. Everyone looks up to crackin. In a way, they're the first ones there are the Trailblazers there, the first movers in many, you know, in many respects. So we want to gather them into this code. We Coalition this Consortium, right and apply, you know, apply almost like a carrot and stick approach, right? You've got some benefits but we really need your collaboration. We need you to play with us in terms of compliance in terms of am l so that we can help you and help the industry change the Option of you and your services with the bank's, okay? And the regulatory Community because that conflict is so big that it is it's like on the bank side, there's often based on misconceptions.

22:59 I think crypto is this right? Or I think crypto is that and then CEO says that and all of a sudden, the entire department says that and then that results in the internal risk policy that is just Banning crypto, you know? Completely, yeah. I feel like I'm quoting Chris Dixon from a 16z once a day. He's days where he said. I've never met anyone in this space who is both skeptical, and informed. Yeah, exactly. But it's like, it's not, you know, you look at the banks and depending upon which bank it is, you're talking about which tier, which level you're talking about. Yeah, I almost start quoting Robin Williams from Good Will Hunting, when he's giving, Matt Damon a hug and saying, it's not your fault, it's not your fault, it's not your fault.

23:42 It's that these are the, where they've come from, and it's up to folks, like, Like you and me and others that are in this space to inform. Yeah. And to educate and you can and it's a lot easier to do that when you're doing that when you're talking too many at the same time. You know? Yes. It sounds like that's what what? You've got. Your head around. Yeah, yeah. It's a unified front. So this, this could there's compliance as a service as well, which is where we're getting into really hard difficult stuff. Okay, this is like at a level of hey coin bitches got a rejection from a bank that they were trying to put a payment through. They're asking who is Pete, where is it 50,000 like why all of a sudden 50,000 Euros on this iban? I want Phi D Pete's addressed Pizza, you know, utility bill Pete starts of funds.

24:30 Give me, give me give me, right? And then p, in the meantime is waiting, what is happening? Why money? Like, why am I waiting that? Is that is the, the sort of stuff that we are, you know, double-clicking on unpacking. And it's like, what are? Actually those clothes, those processes that are taking place and where is the disconnect? And it tends to be lack of data lack of any sort of information because the bank, like just put yourself in the bank shoes for a moment, the back don't see anything. They just see the name and whatever sepa or or you know Swift or faster payments participant puts and the payment message right, which sometimes is address but not much more, right? So you know what are they to, you know, to deduct or to to conclude from on the basis of the data that are getting not much, right?

25:16 So what we're trying to do And this is this, let's say compliance as a service with Bobby proposition or part of our value proposition is to inject more data, more information. Like who is Pete? Why is he trying to buy crypto and then once he buys crypto, what is happening with that crypto right. Yep. What is he doing with it? Is he sending it from one moment to another may be too cold storage. Maybe he's selling it on another platform. It's all visible. It's blushing. Her face is you can see Pete. Just need to know that it's Pete with this token, right? Yep. That that someone someone gives you. So we're trying to open the bank size to kind of disinformation is there. It's available.

25:58 We can we can act as a broker, right? We can teach them how to ingest that data. And then and then, you know, over time make them a bit more comfortable with a banking crypto and hopefully change the perception of the crypto industry in the process. That is the play in the same middle value proposition. Hey everyone, this is Pete. Let me tell you about the folks at Phillip. Lee few years ago. Is that my first Venture Capital industry dinner in Dublin and honestly I felt a bit lost. I bumped into Andrews is Ali. One of the partners at Phillip Lee. He bought me a pint introduced me to the team and they took me under their wing. That take you under their wing approach has been what I've heard consistently from fintech.

26:40 And crypto startups who I know have worked with Phillip, Lee, and Dublin and London to help them. Wrap the right legal framework around their Fundraising and Regulatory needs and I can't recommend them enough. Get in touch with a team at Philip lead. IE or on money. Never sleeps. That IE /, Phillip Lee to learn more. Aha, so so you would know your way around ether scan. Yes, yeah, yes, yes. And and for those that don't know out there, either scan when you are in your crypto wallet and you can end up going to The Ether scan website, to basically see the transaction, where it came from, where it went to. As Adam said, it's all open public record when you're dealing with crypto addresses. Yeah, really, really interesting. And then the final bid that is tying it all together. There is the Consortium, right?

27:30 But beyond just a compliance play or, you know, making it more pop palatable for the banks. It is also trying to give the crypto industry, a voice, a voice that has been lacking. Because, you know, naturally this is a nascent industry. It's just in its infancy and and in this stage, there's a lot of competition. Right? There's, you know, the Krakens the B times, they're all vying for the same type of customer, so that doesn't help in most importantly, that doesn't help the poor. Perception of the industry as a whole because it makes it look unpredictable to the banks and to fast to the banks and Devon faster. The Regulators, right? So what we're trying to do is we're trying to, you know, bridge that Gap, you know, gather them together, give them a voice, represent them advocate for them, right? With the FCA with, you know, you Regulators whatever little bit groups, we can join and represent the, you know, our membership, our, you know, Consortium. That's what we're going to do.

28:27 And we're going to Leverage The The standing that we have from the data that we obtained, by being in the middle of this, to inform the parties that are not necessarily involved in crypto on a day-to-day basis, there are trying to regulate crypto but they don't know how like The Regulators, right? So, that's the coolest approach or the the systemic solution that we're building to address a very systemic problem that is Banks and crypto don't really get along. Yeah. Yeah, they don't. And, I mean, just if just even a couple years ago here in Ireland, I went to go visit one of Of the bank's just to talk to there because it's someone said Pete, you know, a bit about crypto, can you come talk to us about that? I just met their onboarding team and they said that they couldn't actually, I won't name the bank, but they said they couldn't actually Bank any crypto players, because the Central Bank of Ireland didn't say it was okay yet.

29:17 Yeah. I'm like the Central Bank of Ireland is never going to tell you. It's okay what you need to do is demonstrate that you understand the risks of onboarding, a crypto player and show them your procedures and your policies is to You identify those businesses and what their risk may be and how you actually talked about it in your risk committee and how you then actually, what is the approval process. Absolutely. And then you need to submit that Central Bank of Ireland. If you think it is a material change to how you do business in your operating model, and give them a heads-up that it's happening. And if they have something to say about it, great, and if not wonderful. So, you know, I think that now, I put my hand up and said, listen, I could I could help you guys change your onboarding checklist, but I think You could.

29:59 So, yeah, it's funny. You say that because actually their minds me of a trip, we did to one of the EU countries on name the country, but basically, that regulator in that country, we went there, we went to talk to them and we said, hey, we're you want to, you know, set up shop here. We're bringing potentially, you know, big cryptocurrency platforms into your country, but do you like this? Like what do you say to this? Like what's your comment? And they were like, that's amazing. It sounds great more. Isn't this, you know, more taxes for us to charge you know they were like very positive about it but and then they added like in the end they're like we would wish that our member banks would come to us first as opposed to some Foreigner coming and and you know, obviously opening up to opening us our eyes to the prospect or the opportunity, but it would be great for the bank to come to me and Pitch this.

30:57 Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting how those Dynamics, you know, between the regulators and the bank's play out in the end. And, you know, it's a bit of a like if one party doesn't move the other one moment, but the other one won't move without the other and this is chicken and egg, right? Yeah. It's gonna be a move, you know. It's like they The Wallflowers at the teenage dance sitting there waiting to go up and ask somebody for dance. They just they do but listen they got Republic name was going to ask you how you came up with that and I could Is based upon what I've learned so far tonight. But why don't you tell us how you came up, with Fiat Republic? It seems kind of obvious, but either confirm or dispel my assumptions here.

31:41 I was like, it didn't require much. I was just trying to, you know, as a consumer, send money to, you know, to, to bitstamp. Okay, bless them. They're a very good platform but it just took ages for me just to get representation or allocation of of my own money. Any right or to see my own money in on bitstamp and start trading, right? And that, you know, that was one day that I would like, oh, okay, this is, you know, it's like and then because this number actually, very responsible, with their compliance framework, okay? They check everything that, you know, they kyc. And I was like this can be done better. I mean, this can be literally more theme with but it's not miss Tom's fault. It is the fault of the banking partners and the banking ecosystem that they have to work. And that made me realize that it's actually not that, you know, it's not the reputable, the biggest banks in the world, that's your ones.

32:37 Let's put it this way. That engage with those sort of flows right now they don't want to touch this, right? And they don't want to play ball, they don't want to kind of be involved in those money flows. And, and that's why the ultimate user experience suffers. Right, me, sort of waiting for my own money to start trading for a couple of days in the enzyme Bitcoin goes. Up and down, you know, and present here, 20% there. And I'm, you know, I'm pissed, right? Yeah, yeah. Can participate in the market and that was, that was when I really like it just dawned on me. This is, you know, this needs to be fixed and, and I'm a big believer in crypto. I'm a supporter of a couple of projects. I'm a big fan of polygons as well, mattock, you know, I think it's going to go places and there's so many projects, you know that are already hinging on polygon, it's absolutely amazing. It came from a Am I right?

33:30 Yes. Like, yeah. You know, it's a it's an offshoot from from a theorem and that just it's a testament to a theorem sort of foresight and the vision of italic button. But yeah, I'm, you know, I'm a big supporter of crypto so you know, like as I started learning more about bankers and service, it just became a natural thing to do, just connecting the dots. So, you know, put a specific bank is service Play Just for crypto but also make sure that it's addressing the systemic problem. It is hard, it is harder. Than just providing an API, but it is what is what needs to be done because otherwise nothing is going to change in this industry or in this intersection of the two industries. Absolutely, absolutely kind of Shifting Gears a little bit when you and I last chatted Adam you talked about your leadership style and you mentioned Fellowship of the Rings, right? Which which really stuck with me and I you know, just my imagination starts going wild around that. Can you share more about that and and tell me how that works. And why it's working.

34:30 It's a very silly story, but I actually ended up working quite well for me as like as I was advancing in my path of being just a people manager or, you know, I guess editor establishing myself as a leader. I you know, watched Lord of the Rings, right? And I just you know, tried to look at you know, the different relationships that the members of The Fellowship of the Rings had with one another and it just dawned on me that like this is this it's almost like a Utopian leadership style where you're taking into account, the complete like completely different personalities, completely different skill sets and giving them their own space and empowering them. Right? And and somehow as a unit the team just works brilliantly right? And then ultimately manages to deliver the you know the goal or the objective that that was that was put in front of them. I think you know so this style of pay your a autonomous being that has it's like his own Active its own skill, set your own style, right of communication, you just need to be put in an environment where your complimentary to the people that are beside you, right?

35:39 And then and then as a unit, you know, there's there's that are Gorn, right? That is the kind of leader, right? There's the elf that is quick and Nimble and agile, right? There's the dwarf that is a bit rough, but also a very sturdy character, right? The protector. There's this photo, right. Write this courageous something that you wouldn't expect from Hobart, right? So yeah, I'm just taking that framework and applying it. Okay. So who's the elf? Who's we are gone. That's what I was going to ask you. Which one. Which one are you? I think I think in this In this case or in the case of Sierra public on the are Gorn I wouldn't go as far as kind of trying to name the individual co-founders or team members.

36:25 Yeah. I know I wouldn't ask you to do that because I know who some of them are and they may not like that but it's just it's it's a, it's a metaphor for, you know, appreciating what the differences and how diverse, you know, perspectives people have and what are their experiences and also giving them space to just just shine, right? Right. And putting it together or moving it together as this highly diverse, you know, differentiated team that it that can lean on one another. And I found in my experience, those also are building teams that this tends to work when you have, you know, a Peter's, right? Where the hierarchy is not perhaps as established as you know, in, you know, massive.

37:10 Seems it kind of works with founder teams now that I, you know, I have the benefit of the hindsight, it does it. The founder themes because it's, you know, it's this balancing act that needs to be you know, going on all the time and it and if you can appreciate those those those processes and between different team members, then you're more likely to be the inspiring guy. The, you know, and they're gonna just naturally follow you because they think it's there's right. It is, that's the beauty of leadership, you know, if you manage to, you know, create imitation of what you're doing, and then they just take it and run with it. That is the The most beautiful outcome that you can achieve as a leader and I think yeah that's at least. That's that's that's where I'm coming from. This is the you know let's say Genesis of that framework. Yeah it's a great.

37:58 It's a great grounding idea, right? And if you keep just thinking back to that when you're in a situation where like oh God how we going to get through this? Yeah and it you know leveraging everybody's strengths and leaning on each other. It's just absolutely critical and it's no, I'm glad we talked about this because it's giving me some some new thoughts as well for some of the things Up to these days, which, which is pretty cool. You guys, recently raised a big seed round and it's pretty impressive to see that. It was 3 million. Was it? Three and a half million dollars. Yeah. So three and a half million dollars and you've got more that you're working on. So can you tell us how you went about putting together that seed round and how you thought about the investors when you were doing that?

38:41 Yeah, so originally because of the, you know, we already went through the the let's say, The Consortium and the community play that we were trying to put together. Originally my idea was to just take money from potential customers or members of this Consortium, right? I was even thinking about VCS, there was an advisor that came to me, you know, good friend of mine and and he basically said, look these these are just going to look at this. This space is hot might as well just preach to them and and yeah and I just sure enough. I went and pitched to the first one that I had on my LinkedIn. Profile, as as a first degree contact, you replied. And they ended up making us an offer, literally a couple of days later.

39:26 Yeah, yeah. Now that doesn't happen if space is so hot but you guys are good. So, you know, and that's so sad that's to get kick-started. The like there's someone like a snowball. That it just started with that with that firm that first sort of fund. They started spreading the word, we started spreading the word that they're, you know, they are interested because all of A sudden. Now we're talking about a Syndicate, right? It's not them. Yeah, they might be just reading. So now, okay, so we're looking for another investor and and yeah and then you know, in a couple of weeks, I was talking to 30 VC firms, once it just at some point, it just spiraled out of control, to be honest with you.

40:07 I actually went back to the month when I was actually actively fundraising obviously on behalf of the team and, and the company I Add hundred and I'm not exaggerating this even a tiny bit. 110 meetings with investors over over eight weeks and each meal at least 30 minutes that's a lot. That's a lot and out of those hundred and ten. Yeah five invested. The ring funds invested and we've got 13 angels that have joined K the party. So essentially, yeah. So 16 investors.

40:50 Yeah. So roughly you know what? 15? 14 percent. Yeah. A little bit, little bit little bit less than that. But that's that's impressive. What I think. That's what you have to do, you know? I don't founders of years that that T200 conversations. Yeah. Before they before they got there, put together, you know, the first few million And it all depends on what's happening in the market cycle time in the market, and obviously, how good you are at telling the story and getting the point across so, well done. And we think about, when you think about, you know, where this is going next. A lot of work ahead of you guys to get to get this done and to get this in place. Yeah, yeah.

41:30 It's a very unique play what we're doing or what we're trying to put together, and it needs a little Firepower, and he's up Fire part of front. Okay. Where we believe. If we have a window of opportunity and that window is likely to close at some point later this year and we want to make the most out of it. So that's why our value in the company right now is speed. It's number one and like that literally is a leadership principle, you know, value, whatever. Whatever you call it. It is. The Guiding Light for everything that we do, every single process that we put together it. We're optimizing for we're trying to make You know, take shortcuts but responsible shortcuts not Reckless shortcuts, you know, we're even going as far as buying companies to advance our agenda.

42:20 So so, yeah, I would say that we're pretty obsessed with speed, okay? And this is part of the part of the pitch as well, right? It's, you know, even to stand up because this is an intersection of two worlds. You need to stand up some kind of a protocol that is going to wedge itself in between those two worlds, right? This is, this is beyond just being A supplier to business customer. This is trying to become a standard Setter. That's a lot of heaviest heavy lifting. That's a lot of, you know, movement, making even right. This is a social experiment in many, in many ways. So, although this social aspect is more on the that's a business side, right? It's it, and that's why it's more nuanced, because like each business, stakeholder in each organization, will have a different agenda and then stakeholders within the organization will have a different point of view, or, you know, different experience. Different, exposure to different decisions. The organization.

43:11 So it's a bit more Nuance, is a bit more complicated. But ultimately, those guys are all pulling in the same direction. It is very important to kind of understand. They're all trying to make crypto maintain go mainstream, right? I listen to Brian Armstrong, right? And his vision of unlocking economic freedom. I'm hundred percent with that, right? This, this needs to happen, but for that to happen, they there needs to be more dialogue with the sort of establishment with the sort of Status quote, the current way of moving money around of investing, right? Like the current treatment of asset classes. There needs to be this dialogue. And, and that's why, you know, everything that we do, our from our technology, from our proposed, to compliance our processes, the community that we're building, we're all sort of always mindful that, you know, we need to be able to Foster dialogue, to kind of, make the two sides, talk to one another, if we are to if we're necessary in the middle.

44:10 So Be it and obviously we're going to make a business out of that. But ultimately it is, you know, the industry that that will benefit and and it's an entire crypto industry that you know that we're taking on. So so yeah, there's a lot of work to be done on the platform, you know, wherever we've got a plant MVP launch. So, we're almost there. Well, starting with with two currencies and with a couple of members, we call the members, not customers, and varying, of course, and a few Banks as well, right? So we've got this gives like you You can look at this and say oh this is a two-sided Network. It's always going to have that pitiful. But if you have traction on both sides actually, quite well positions to to start brokering right to being this this this middle man. Well yeah, you know, if you were always in your career if you were always that translator, right? Yeah.

44:59 Between the consumer needs and the development side and then you've kind of made that your thing. And now that Fiat Republic and with your approach to Leading the team and everybody playing to their strengths. It feels like you've got to go whole team of translators there or facilitators. There's another word, translator, facilitator, enters one word interpreter know there's a fourth one I can't think of it right now but it does that is that is the word. If I think of it I will I will share it with you and put into the show notes. But looking at the, you know, at all of this in totality, T Adam, what you guys have done is really impressive you moved, really quick, and Joey crude from Pintura Capital.

45:47 When I talked to him last year, he talked about identifying speed, right? And saying you just, you gotta be fast. It's not just because he thinks it's cool that a developer can move fast, but that's what you need to be able to do in this space and to be fair. Like the the team is a big part of this right of why were even able to go as fast as we are going. And, you know, they all come from from You know, different backgrounds and they all they all are very skilled and very experienced and they're in their respective areas. So it is a combination of like what has allowed us to go. So fast is a combination of talent, you know, alignment under one sort of vision or one overarching objective to kind of help cooked of get mainstream, right?

46:32 And and yeah just just giving it our best shot, right? Like individually but also as a collective and I think you know a lot of what my My conversation with investors was basically selling the team, right? It was basically like, how are we this Fellowship of the Ring already? Right? And, and, and, and we're just, you know, we're just going to go places. If we only get the backing, if we only get the support, well, that we really deserve II will like, this, this, this team deserves any support that we know. Were, we're getting so, but yeah. But the task at hand is, is hard. It's difficult. And it's It's going to take us a while to sort of build out the full extent of that vision, and we might need to change stuff. We might need to tweak.

47:18 I mean, we remain open-minded with regards to that but but yeah, I think we're. Yeah, we're on the right course. Absolutely absolutely. All right, well last question here this is a final question. We asked everybody on this show Adam what is one thing that people wouldn't expect to know about you? I gotta think about that because I wanted to say something but is that barrier? So Soul bare, your soul. I shared a story last week about donkey Bolognese which I'm not going to repeat. Well it did it was on the but you'll have to listen to It's on the episode with Matt larbi from realm. But what's what do you think? What's one thing that people wouldn't expect to know about? You probably would have been the fact that I almost became a professional musician.

48:01 Oh, really? Yeah, I can see that. I was supposed to write songs for Taylor Swift. Okay. I was, that was the You know, what does the ambition of the 20? 20, 20 something-year-old. It didn't go. It didn't quite go. That way ended up in finance. But yeah, I had, I have music education, I played cello, I play guitar. I that's my main instrument. Wow. So yeah, I went to Berklee College of Music, hey, which is by far considered as this Factory of producers, so that was supposed to be me and Okay, it didn't quite go that way. I don't regret it that it but I still let. This is music is very much a second part of my life. I mean, I rehearse, I used to have a band when I moved to London.

48:51 I stopped playing in a band, but I still say, you know, kept going to gigs and, you know, singing on stage going to jam sessions, you know, just have that release from, you know, audiences listening to you and you just on stage. So yeah. Wow, that's the stuff that people wouldn't probably expect. Well, What there's going to be some point where you going to get back up on stage and, you know, I can't wait to see that because it's gonna be awesome. What, what is, what would be the style, you know, in terms of what you would still play? Yeah. You were to do it, and if it's not Taylor Swift, right? No, it is great. I mean, producers in the composer's actually has behind her are amazing.

49:36 I mean, you got to respect that that sort of the, the craft of You know, fellow musicians there, but my style, you know, I'm a bit stuck in the 70s. I like so funk, you know. Cool also Blues. Because like, my dad raised me like that. He's a math. Okay. You know, I used to be a guitarist, a blues guitarist as well, so I love it. So those are, those are my like jazz a little bit as well. I mean, if I'm in the mood but yeah, mostly those the three genres, so fun. Yeah, loose yeah, you need to be a pretty good musician to keep. Keep your bones up with that with, with those genres. So, yeah, I get it. We'll listen, Adam, it's been a fantastic chat.

50:17 Thanks so much for coming on the show tonight. Just absolutely love what you guys are doing and just keep doing it, right? You guys are gonna you guys going to go for. Thank you so much Pete. Thanks for having me. That does it for this week, folks, thanks to Adam, be a lie for opening up, his mind to help us figure out why he does. What he does links to get in touch with Adam and learn more about Fiat Republic or in the show notes on our website money never sleeps daei. So check us out online and subscribe to our money. Never sleeps newsletter as well. Also, thanks to Conan Brophy, from create sound for mixing and editing. This episode Conan is an excellent medium and get in touch with when you're thinking about launching your own podcast. As for me, I'm an early stage, startup investor and advisor focused on where fintech meets crypto and crypto meets web three, if you'd like to talk to me about your business. Is drop me a line on info at money. Never sleeps that I eat finally till next time. Thanks for listening.

51:08 See you