181: Friends | Securo Finance and DeFi with Victor Lee and Alvin Foo

0:11 Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend and this is money, never sleeps. We look inside the minds of entrepreneurs and at crossover of startups and are prized Finance technology and Life. As We Know It, This episode of money never sleeps is sponsored by Phillip Lee one of Ireland's fastest growing corporate law firms and expert advisors at the heart of the Dublin and London startup fintech and crypto communities. On the show this week. We've got, hey, I'm Victor. I'm the co-founder for tsukuru finance. And, hey, I'm Melvin fool. I'm the co-founder for Sakura Finance, Sakura Finance formerly, known as Del Ventures, or building a compliant, secure and easy to use defy or decentralised Finance investment platform. Secure, a financier, the fourth of ten founding teams forming, the launch pool web, three textures, accelerator class of 2020 to that, we've got on the show over the next few months.

1:00 In this episode Owen Fitzgerald. And I talked to Victor and Alvin about how they got together with their CTO soon. Lie to bring the Sakura Finance idea to life. What's Kuro Finance is and how it works. What really matters when you're bridging web to investors into the web three world and house, Kuro Finance are going to make a big splash into the market in and around Palm Beach in Miami at the upcoming permissionless conference. All right here on money never sleeps. We'll listen. Why don't we just jump right in and get started with Victor? And let's begin with you. And why don't you share with us your back story and how you got to this point? Yeah.

1:40 Yep. Right. Yeah. So the back story is that I was actually product manager and has been in the intrapreneurship building technology products more than a decade, right? I started building applications on a mobile app and of course, you know, being enthusiastic, And making and beauty stuff having the engineering trick in my heart, you know, brings me to a battery in crypto in 2016 when it Kieran was still in this nation face rate. So that being said you know, I actually explore the into cryptography exploit to Ichi remaining proof-of-work. You know really getting deep, dive into the technology side of the of the of the industry which is of the battery, as we know a battery is not something that Created like five years ago, it was a movement that was recently. Hi pop.

2:34 But prior to their right, everyone was just calling them as Bitcoin or E2 reminding ring or you know, the something along the way, cryptocurrency cryptography or distributed Ledger technology so that brought meet up to the factory space in 2016 Venture, Deep dive into the industry. So when it comes to 2018 then I realized that. Hey this industry is actually the next growing evil. Lucien of how the technology would disrupt the world and well, full force into the industry, 2018, coming from the technology background or from a several waves of Technology, starting from internet.com, all the way to social media, to sharing economy, and to, you know, Mobility mobile image.

3:18 Here just shows me that, you know, every industry has turning point and web three as of today is actually the turning point where we will see that this industry. Kuchar the future and I'll see you Tuesday. So, yeah, that's how I started into web tree and of course started to test the backstory of it. Great. And Alvin, how about you, what was your entry point into all this and looking at your LinkedIn profile and actually looking at both of your LinkedIn profiles and seeing how your careers have progressed? I've got a pretty good handle on it but Alvin why don't you share it in your own words? Yeah, right, how much time have I got? You started in 95 like I did that's what I saw in your LinkedIn profile.

4:01 So you know just give us the rundown and I could ask and if that will do the trick. Yeah right. Right by profession, I'm actually a lawyer. So I've actually serve as a as a, as a legal counsel in London many, many years ago, and obviously, after that, you know, I don't want to like, you know, do this like 24 hours, right? There's talking about my history. I've always been enterprising ever since I was a kid. Also, because of my parents, my dad who's also You know, this is man himself. So several years in Leisure, I've always been in a tech business according to, you know, 97 when I actually started my first internet company, but obviously before that, you know, they're I've gone through a lot of trial and tribulation where I've, you know, fail several times and you know, just in time 97 where internet started and I actually created my first things that company and then I, you know, grew that into a fairly sizable company before.

4:52 I did it in 2006 in 2006 was a year that I actually hop on to China. And my my journey in China's actually accidental because a trick that was not supposed to be in. I'm not meant to stay here for so long. I always say, I always call myself as an Accidental Tourist that eventually got into the ad Tech business. So I actually work in several at tech companies, ranging from Nokia, to Val T to Google and in my last two rolled before I joined Victor, you know, to tap on to web 3 and also crypto was I was the managing director of it over a Is advertising agency and running the China dismissed. So, Victor was was working together with me back then, 2016, where we spent a great deal of time talking about crypto and he was like, you know, so into it and he said we got to get into it and I'm going to buy my first, you know, mining machine, which you did. Yeah.

5:46 So that machine became also his, you know, heating engine at home as well because it was so much heat. It was it was talking about it. So Victor was actually very, you know, into crypto even The time or, and obviously, I continue to run my advertising agency and he, you know, decided in 2018, right, that he wanted to, you know, say I'm going to like jump ship. I'm going to move back to Singapore and do crypto. So as for me, I could teach you to run my agency and for a long time for about seven years until 2020, where where he said, you know, the company that we won't. You know, we were invested in where he was running. He said, you know, obviously I think this is a year where D Phi is going to explode. He was showing me naughty fight, Paul's and all that seven is it and I didn't have a clue what in the world was defiled, you know? So the learning curve for me, was a very, very Steep. And I mean, Victor at the time was like, almost all to me was like the guru within that I know. Wow, no, he knows a lot and he said, you know, we got to dive into this and that's what was how having read and also really immersive that I've actually joined onto, you know, Victor's, you know, so-called Victor's been Reagan at a time it was called out on just and And obviously at a time, you know, with a little knowledge I learned. And obviously I've learned a lot from him. And also I've learned a lot from industry that we that we hop onto the bandwagon.

7:05 I thought this is this is really game-changing for me and I can, this is going to be the next industry that will continue to change because I came from advertising. I came from internet, I came from the mobile era. I saw Ecommerce. I saw everything and to me, right. When I look at this entire, you know, blockchain crypto rep tree. I see another Sarah similarly to mobile influence similar to internet how it took off point. And I knew this has to be like, and there was how, you know, Darwin's was was actually created. And they're no longer will look back and I think that's how I started got, you got, you know, I mean just looking at the two of you together, right?

7:46 And seeing Victor going back to your earliest days where you were a mortgage executive at city, right? I think it is and I could imagine you as a mortgage executive believe it or not and And Alvin with your legal, your lawyer background, both of you then got into digital mobile marketing Innovation. Obviously, you guys came together and Omnicom. And that's where you guys were spending a lot of time together. All it really was was Victor just going down the rabbit hole. Is that is that it Yeah, he's being, you know, having the cutest minoring to really explore. What is out there and, you know, trying to figure out what is the stuff that we can actually create in re. And, of course, you know, anybody can make money selling bubble tea seeing, you know, boogers and flipping burgers and, you know suffering, but it takes a special breed of skillset mindset, is, you know, execution, level to really Castle something like from especially the in the tech space.

8:49 So I think that in the combination of the team myself, and of course, they have been re you managed to, you know, be true. Awesome. And also having soon lie as your CTO, big shout-out to soon. Lie. You know? And having his background in all of this is pretty helpful as well. Yeah. Yeah, you know, having or CTU co-founder Techo who follow in the whole team or he should I join us one startup before which has, you know, kind of we work together. I mean, know how we work, each with each other and having that kind of skill set that complementary to each other. Just bring us to the next level room. So, if you see from the coal, Founding team composition of. You're actually having a very strong composition having being like that strategy strike. And then the person will understand how the market and the business works, right?

9:38 It's actually is going to be the guidance and the mental always from their space for a while. You know, I'm going to be the Hustler and executor bringing everything together. The strategies bringing everyone together. So that is my rule. And then, of course, online is the executor. He's actually like hate giving the give him. The time. Requirement understand attack, if you get it done. So from the first day, from solidity development from blockchain programming. So that is what the tech was killed 70, or was I really company together to bring you to a very perfect team for his to execute on the on Circle of violence? Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that, and it's great to have at the earliest days. Those three key roles really, well, defined in all as co-founders in the business, which is awesome.

10:20 Why don't we shift into telling us about Sakura Finance? What it is, where it started. As Del Ventures, Is and why it's Unique to me. I can start by talking how we start it, right? Because it was, it was meant to be Delvin. Just tell they. Just initially when we started was really into Consulting, you know, getting onto blockchain and try to incubate opportunity. But obviously, you know, Victor that time because we've also invested into a startup that, you know, we found soon like was also at that point of time. Also, the chief technology person and what happened was we when we dive into win, 35 that time. We saw an opportunity because we saw there was a huge growth that's going to come up on D, fine. And there's an opportunity by was really, really difficult. It was hot, it was not simple and nobody knows it. Exactly.

11:08 You know, in terms of what kind of risk they are dealing with. So what happened was we decided you know 8 why don't we create a strategy to simplify right to onboard crypto investors and retailers? So at least you know they know what they're getting into. They know what kind of risk they are dealing with. So so So we kind of like, you know, break them down and categorize them into different, kind of risk starting from low to high and DJing as well. So that was the premise of actually starting the Avengers but but overall appeal of time we there was a lot of learning. We launched our tokens and at the same time we launched our product we saw TBL going up and we also saw the problems and many of the problems that we face.

11:53 And obviously then we stumble onto the bottleneck and then we realized right? You know that In order for us to Skilled bigger, we need to get on to becoming more compliant, more secure, a responsible provider, what have you? So that was how we saw the need right to Pivot so that we can scale bigger. And at the same time, right? Getting into space, right? That we the small loyalty and grow them. The business much quicker compared to just what we used to be, where the focus was very much non-compliant and very diligent. And again, very degenerate means. You know, that's right with the loyalty. I think the overlay over the last at least a year, we have learned in terms of out, you know, getting right on technology. I know there's a lot more to learn but at least we have got certain certain, you know, key metrics, you know, already the product ready?

12:39 We got the team in place. I think what we have now is really how to scale and how to get the license, how to help people to become a more responsible, a service provider to address write a more advanced segment where we term them as you know, the small to medium-sized fund managers and also you know, family officers. So Was why we saw the opportunity and that's how that came Sakura Finance great, great and Victor do you want to talk us through the core value proposition? And how it all works? Yeah. Should look like you know what Ali was mentioning about like our conviction or the device pastry is really because of a few fundamental issues and few fundamental metrics, you know, we are always using back to the fundamental try to make decision.

13:22 That is how we actually knows that we are on the right path, right? The first one is actually in the number of users on the crypto. Spike on the active number of crypto wallet is growing at the at the tremendous gearing and of course, that is actually adding onto the device piece as well, but if I started one year ago, it was actually quite an offer slow. And then after that you can see right now I defy space as she's been 10 fold in terms of like you're the product development and the number of accuses adopting to it. So we know that Thief is actually on the right path to continue to grow down. Five ten years down the road because this just how web tree are supposed to distract the traditional Finance ring. That is number one. Number two. What is our conviction in terms of like, why we know that we are doing the right things to serve, the right customers is racing.

14:04 Blistering users are actually people who like girls who wanted to invest their money so that they can actually get a better Return of the money. If you look at the traditional market right now, if you look at the number of the centralized government and A banks right now, giving out the return, which is, you know, almost non-existent for their money, what the inflation rate are going very high. We just demonstrated that people and investors. Common retail investors like yourself will need a better outcome and better exposure to different kind of alternative asset investment, which is the Divide component of it. But the problem was the problem was the lack of compliance Regulatory and security into these defy Investments stopping a lot of investors to, you know, Place their trust into this new technology. But we also understand before every new technology that emerge over the last year's run all these Flow of Technology, they happen.

14:59 They will require a lot of different maturity to it. I mean know that having this unique value proposition is going to differentiate School Finance to the rest of the competitors. Our value proposition are very simple. We are to be a compliant secure and easy to use D5 platform for regular investors. That is what we want because having, if it were to offer a solution that is offering very high interest Yes, but unsustainable and unregulated. You know a lot history has demonstrated a lot of all these protocols allow this business will run our business and you know no investors were able to look for them. So having a regulated and a license rate from fund manager, to able to help more of these investors to invest responsibly into various digital accessibility firing. It's going to bring in the new breed of customers to the defy growth, or to the back to growth. And this is what is severe.

15:57 Needed in the industry for us to continue the skillet but to do it. We need to go to the right process re you the usual stuff, having a license. Having a security piece of pie for the customers. Having exceptional customer experience having a good customer support having you know the right girl relationship go from our businesses and customer service rate to ensure that the customers feel safe. We've got money is dead so they don't know worry about the money is gone. So the basic stuff like is what required to actually bring me the confidence so that the industry will continue to grow and that is what Security Finance is trying to go after Hey everyone, this is p. Let me tell you about the folks at Phillip. Lee few years ago is that my first Venture Capital industry dinner in Dublin and honestly I felt a bit lost I bumped into and Rita's Ali.

16:47 One of the partners at Phillip Lee. He bought me a pint introduced me to the team and they took me under their wing that take you under their wing approach has been what I've heard consistently from fintech. And crypto startups who I know have worked with Phillip Lee and Dublin in London to help them wrap the right legal framework around their business. Fundraising and Regulatory needs. I can't recommend them enough, get in touch with a team at Philip lead that IE or on money. Never sleeps. That IE /. Phillip Lee to learn more. It sounds like then really your your Bridging, the Gap between I suppose web to web three because you're giving your you know the regular investor access to obviously digital assets bought bringing the kind of traditional way of you know, the security to compliance or traditional way of investing to the table. And that seems to be that that's that's going to be the key bit, but it's obviously, very smart way to go down, and that's kind of what set you apart, obviously, from the competitors. Yes, you're absolutely right because a lot of our competitors in that pre space.

17:54 They are Builders and Innovative straight. They have a lot of disregard about how the real world works, right? In terms of like, you know getting investors on board or getting the adoption from like the mission of the businesses on board. So that is what is actually lacking in the web through space and we are using Libya of traditional method of doing it which is having the web to approach to software, please stay straight. So that is what we are trying to do. Yeah. In terms of the longer-term vision guys. What is this look like, right? How big can it get? And I'm thinking about a point in time in the future where there's a critical mass of what used to be traditional Finance or Trad, fi investors that are investing through defy or decentralized finance and via Smart contracts.

18:39 How big can the can this get? Is we end and what do you think it's going to look like? I mean from my standpoint I think if you look at the Trap Vibe is this now if you Were two looks, you know, strictly in terms of the, a size right now. I mean, traditional, let's just look at, you know what? We all understand that. If you look at Equity Market at this point of time, Equity Market is about 100 200 trillion dollars, right? If you compare that to crypto, it's like to trailer right or less now after today, right? Probably 1.5 or less. So, so did the crypto Market as a whole is no more than 1.5 trillion dollars in any of you even start to break them down, right? Into say, defy the Not even small. I mean, I remember remember, I think Victor was saying enough that this year by 2021 is going to be twenty billion dollars.

19:26 I think we have reached their last year about 20 billion dollars. So assuming that even if you are at 200 billion dollars and the size of crypto being, you know, under 1.5 trillion dollars, but still, you know, and I haven't even mentioned derivatives yet, which is even bigger than the equity market. Now, the the size is actually huge by any standard. But how do we get there, right? I think that's a challenge, right? We, I think what Victor was also pointing out right now. We also need to make sure that what we talked about web create a lot about rectory. The realities of all is still very much about to write and people are just used to, you know, rep to because like it or not the decentralized worldwide, very sexy. But in many ways, you know, it's very slow and it doesn't work very well.

20:13 In a lot of products, we get complaints all the time drag you know, how how I wish it was as easy. Easy as as Robin Hood, right? So I think the challenge for us is that we what we understand, the need of actually going that direction. We also need to understand that a lot of people on the web tool so that's why the team, you know, Victor and me and soon my we want to come up with something that's actually, very I think Simplicity is actually what we are trying to come back there at least, right? Someone who's using it, while it may be on the back end, decentralized on D5, and all that stuff, but to the users, right? Its Simplicity is is probably accessing it. With a simple UI. And then, you know, trade or invest and then you make money like, like sleep when you make money, right?

20:55 So we want to see, and, and that's that will be our single biggest challenge, right? So, it's going to be a marriage between rectory and web to, but from the user perspective, right? It doesn't matter where this work you represent. That's really a technical way of saying it, because in general, most of the users, don't really care to them is really the ease of use. And if you ask me from my standpoint, I think if you can get to the ease of use People can use it, like, how you would use Robin Hood? I think we would have fixed a huge problem in defy already. That will be our biggest challenge. I mean, I don't have it, like, I don't think we have an answer to all that, but that will be a major Challenge and the market is huge. I mean, I don't want to quantify exactly how much, but if you look in terms of this Market size versus very hard, I think it just humongous and tapping on to that and Asia where there's a huge Market of a. I'm going to talk about Singapore, not even look in Southeast Asia, half a billion.

21:47 Ha half a billion people, right? And a sizable Market that I think if you can tap on the rightly I think we are really talking really, really big money. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know you mentioned Robin Hood there Alvin and how easy it is to use. I mean looking at your dap which is still Del Ventures and obviously you're in the process of rebranding to secure. Oh and you access your dap easily on your mobile phone you can go right to connect your wallet connect, my metal mask wallet. And then Go into these strategies, I can see Dow Citadel for a balanced crypto portfolio, hands with yield farming rewards, a citadel to, which takes out a even further with blue chip cryptos, Golden Cross, which is a technical analysis, driven strategy down, metaverse arrived, the growth of n of T, and gamify ecosystems, right?

22:36 All of that's right, there feels pretty easy. And, but I think what you're saying is that this can be really, really big. If you get this into a lot of people's hands, right yesterday, it was you Question on the product segments. I mean, despite what you are describing on the easy side but it's still hard for a lot of people because get 3 requires, a lot of technical knowledge, about setting up the web free voluntary and they have to pay for gas fees. They had a thing about amount of the of the of the recent volatility the EFT. And for a lot of investors is just too complicated. This, that is our learning from down features that we have been doing for the last year despite the Simplicity that we have currently is not enough. Need to even go to double down on our approach, to make it even more simpler than the customers to just log in. There wasn't money and done.

23:30 It's three steps to invest in to defy. Without worrying about a gas phase, without worrying about, how to set up their web tree wallet. It's just to say, hey I just need to log in with my email or if my Google some account and then I just need to go through this process one time just like Robin. Good bam. Then you do not need to worry about the gas is you do not need to worry about how you much, you going to retain and everything. Just make sure that the money is given to the customers based on the strategy that I choose which is low-risk. Medium Azure hair is done and we want to double down to make it even more simpler based on what we have so far and we were to make it better. Yeah because you know when I did this before we started recording today and looking at this again, I, you know, I already have the metal mask wallet, it set up actively using that so it's easy for me, right? And but when you and I saw recently that Madam asked now are integrated with Apple pay Madam asked are integrated with moon pay which allows you to load your web three wallet with a credit or debit card and what it still is just that that you can't go on.

24:38 To a web three dap and just start using it within seconds. If you don't already have a wallet set up, right? So I think that is the big bridge and at the end of the day, The way we will get the first billion users of crypto and digital assets. Defy into this space, is really through making that completely seamless and making it such an easy Bridge into this space where you don't have to go through all these middlemen. You don't have to go through all of these different field layers, that sit behind the scenes for all these clearinghouses. These intermediaries for just to be able to invest and I think for me that's the The compelling desire to help you guys read this all forward, right?

25:25 Because because even this example Peach I don't have any of those things set up. You don't know. Yeah, I can go into my Revolution trade. Now Stocks if I want to be straightforward, what are you do? Anything? You just described there because they don't have any of those things set up. Yeah, I'll show you on, I'll show you how it's done. All right so bring it all back to the Here and Now what is The biggest objective for 2022. And hence, the biggest challenge, I think we have to bust with that. I will stop. If the products like this, that are, we could actually cheap in from like, you know, the business and the future of the the challenges from. So on our site, you know, true. We have to be little bit more focus and of course you know, double down on our effort, right?

26:10 To make sure that we actually have the differentiator in terms of securing Finance test the rebranding because the wages doesn't sounds very secure. So it's a grow Finance rate will be able to like you know give us a different kind of branding so that we can tap into people's mind and heart disease. They havea here to not mess around with money right? Can then turn so there's one. Number two is actually to focus more on like you're getting the right Talent or working on the right product to suit that we can prioritize on what we are trying to focus on which is to be a secured compliant and the easy-to-use D5 / protocol for Subaru Finance to get more investors to come into divine. To your suit that is actually our plan for restaurant 2022. And of course, this would include, you know, if you if you do one layer down in this will include regular on the mobile application and of course, you include more different kind of languages.

27:02 Different kind of product that is actually easier to explain a more processes in terms of like a summation getting a customer support that is available online on our app, on our website. So that customers could actually find. We know, one click to, actually able to get a support the required to understand, what the hell are we trying to do? So all These things are on the product side and a businesslike and what we challenges and what we'll be doing that to do for the rest of the 2032 in terms of like on the market saying the business and the challenges of going to chip, it will challenge that I see moving forward. Right? Number one, I think Talent is one, right? I mean, we, we are a team of three people, you know, our founding team and then team of Engineers right now. If you want to move into this Market quickly, we also need to make sure that we are. We we hire the right people, not just Tech but also, you know, the In sight right now, this is development where you need people who understand each market and who to talk to in the right partner to talk to people understand banking, people understands, you know, fun because they are they are speaking in that language.

28:04 So because we may have higher one or two people but I think we need to hire more people. So that's the montanan, talons key to us. In terms of actually getting into the right Market know, I think number two is that we also need to address what we have a bi bi license. We also need to understand that in some of the markets, right? We also so need to understand the local regulation landscape right while while at the same time, not to be overly structured and not overly bothered by regulation because too much regulation is not going to do us any good. But but we also need to keep that in mind and to make sure that we do not in, don't get onto the wrong side of the equation. So those are the challenge that we need to address. So people's one. I think Victor and team will cover that that part but I think in terms of actually getting my and then also, we probably need some marketing people who didn't Meets address each of the individual Market of your covering at least within Asia or wherever you need to access and talk to the right people.

28:55 So those will be those will be, you know what, we need to focus, right? In the coming, in the coming 12 years got you. And I know that you've got a pretty Innovative go-to-market strategy around the permissionless event coming up in Palm Beach. Which is close to Miami. Victor. Do you want to maybe share some details on that and how it's going to work? Yeah, of course. So that being said, right? We have to stoop after this. Straight the number one party started. We have to focus on our product development and our focus on building a compliant secure the easy-to-use defy platform. But on another site, we cannot lose our Innovation right there is, we cannot be just focusing on me. Not doing what the traffic was doing. So the Innovation part is actually very important to have three. How to do that to keep on innovating, on our team and building.

29:42 New pests, go to market rate and test approach to getting the feedback from the customers. So we are building an innovative. Did you call follow the wheels followill.com? So what does it mean is very symbolic in the traditional Finance? We know that to invest into a new Prophet like a billionaire. For example, Warren Buffett or like some of these experienced ripped investment Banks or this very huge fund. Managers you want to treat like them, you want to invest like them but in the traditional way slightly hard unless somebody allows you to copy tray but on the web free space following how the or how following all these rich fund managers invest on the Bitcoin will give you some sort of tips and how to do is to invest like them. So we are creating a strategy whereby. We are able to track the wallets of this crypto bills or diesel which investors right investment in the Bitcoin market. So able to track on the wallet and do back-testing. Ordered on their approach, will be able to use data sites approach to actually analyze, their written are using a sharp ratio using a profitable strategy. And using that strategy we are creating a very simple strategies to invest it.

30:49 Splish you just invest into a Bitcoin if it's very issue. Investor stable coin just to make sure that we are covering both sides for the for the investment strategy that will include incorporate into our product. The strategies that and we should be able to launch it in the Miami in the next couple weeks. So the go-to-market strategy is that we're going to throw in some big party to get a lot of views to come onto the board, coming to the party and come to the event and they will be the launch. The follow wheel at a specific event to to getting the attention, right of this will say The hey, you guys are doing something very Innovative. We want to monitor, what you guys are doing, so that is the Innovative go-to-market strategy. We are doing to get in detention for this strategy, for Global that we want to launch. That being said, one of the caveat is that. Yeah, if you're able to hit to our objective, which is to like get to 100 million dollar, a TV app, or total value lock me, and Alvin and the rest of the founders, which is going to rent a boat before the go to Iceland or Noble spots on Wheels and just jump down from a ship to follow. So that is the, you know, the gold market strategy. We're going to hold you to this Victor and Albert you know we had the whole class out in Barna in Galway for our Retreat. We had a few of the folks jumping into Galway Bay off of barn appear and that water is not that cold compared to what you might find up in Iceland.

32:16 So but, you know, as long as you're only in for a couple of minutes, Minutes you'll be absolutely fine. Just start hyperventilating. We probably go during reading really hot in the summer. Awesome together, so that we can jump out. They follow Bill together. Oh yeah, no, I'm there. I'm totally there. And you know, then we'll go into those volcanic Springs and warm up a bit after that because we're going to need it. But listen guys were at the point of the show where Owen likes to ask his final. Yes, famous question. You asked everybody on this show, so, oh, and I'll hand it over to you. But since it has been great having you on the show for and hearing about your story, so individually had like if you could tell us something that people wouldn't expect to know about you.

32:58 And I think we study ball, throw myself in, of course Iovine. So I think personally myself like God I'm always so bubbly in a fun guy and you know, I love to cook as well, right? So Google in those well but those about me because I really looks at me and sees that. I'm very serious in my work and like, you know, just the person who are fully focus on will But, you know, having a, I'm fun to have around, right? And then they eventually do, we'll do a nice cooking and loo love to to be around with the boys for the forgot. What was your favorite thing to cook ieo? During the lockdown, are everywhere. Become a celebrity chattering. So I couldn't, we be cool. Lot of pastors teak, Sierra and different kind of dishes right now for the family. So yeah, alright, alright diversifying, that's awesome. That's things do just got to keep working on it, right? And you all of them.

33:49 Right. Well, I I'm actually not very young, obviously, I look a lot younger than my age right at my current age, which I won't, which I won't talk about it, right? But certainly not young. Probably pecan. Guess? Because he's looky, Priya probably have seen my LinkedIn. My age. I'm still playing competitive. Badminton. Right thing is this? Yeah, I can be playing. You know, if you look at how I might build, right? I'm Victor wanted very well. I have a rather big tummy. So a sizable in a very sizable for my hiking, like tip is so obvious that you can see it, right? You know that nobody could have imagined that in a person of my size, could run, jump and smash and play competitive, that Minton.

34:32 So I simply competitive and it today, like, like competition, not professionally, you know, but at least, you know, in a very Advanced lie. So I see a deal like this age, and I still play in a competition and where we might with my team and even me even with my daughter and this age, right? So she's very young. She's in in and in the middle. So, so that's something that people don't think about. Because when I look at me right there, how can this guy run first? His body, man, there's no way he can run. So I think that's something that this committee could have. You could have thought that I could play at this age. That's awesome. My son just got a badminton set from his grandparents for his birthday last week. So that net is now up in our backyard. And there is a barbecue right near there, but not too close that it's a hazard. So I can probably cook.

35:19 And play badminton at the same time, so hopefully your bases covered guys, excellent? Right, we got for immigrants. Did a great job with a birthday present this year. They always do a great job but, you know, it was particularly timely. So listen, guys. Thank you so much for coming out to the show. It's been awesome. Mm. Yep. Thinking might have even more into squirrel Finance in the story of Victor and Alvin and soon lie in the whole team. So thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you.

36:07 That does it for this week folks, thanks to Victor Lee and Alvin Foo for opening up their minds. Help us figure out why they do what they do links to get in touch with Victor and Alvin and learn more about Sakura financier. In the show, notes on our website money, never sleeps, that IE. So check us out online. Also, thanks to Conan Brophy from creates, an for mixing and editing this episode. Conan is an excellent medium and get in touch with when you're thinking about launching your own podcast. As for me, I'm an early stage, startup investor and advisor focused on where fintech meets crypto and crypto meets web 3, you like to talk me about your business, drop me a line on in vo at money, never sleeps. That IE finally till next time, thanks for listening. See you