085: Money Talks #13: Finn Murphy - Seed Investing in Ireland

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Hey there this is Pete Townsend
from New Avengers and welcome to

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money.
Never sleeps podcast that looks

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inside the head of entrepreneurs
and what makes them do what they

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do this episode of money.
Never sleeps is kindly sponsored

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by Ireland, fintech and
financial services recruitment

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specialist.
Top-tier recruitment.

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If your colleague need help,
attracting retaining great

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talent for your fintech, a
financial services company.

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It is highly advisable that you
build Relationship the team at

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top-tier recruitment, you can
find them at top-tier

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Recruitment.com and tell them
Ascension this week.

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We talked to Finn Murphy for
Frontline.

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Ventures a dublin-based B2B SAS
Venture firm investing in Europe

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and the US in a country of 5
million people like Ireland.

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The Venture Capital Community is
about the size you would expect

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relatively modest.
However the multinational

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Finance pharmaceutical Medtech
and broader tech companies.

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All progressively choosing
Ireland for the European

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operations, going back to the
1980s and Well educated work

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force to boot is a much larger
Talent base in Ireland that you

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would expect for a country of
five million people.

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So what happens with the
risk-takers with a few years

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under their belts and these
multinationals get that

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entrepreneurial itch.
Well, although there are

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definitely other factors.
I've always pointed to these

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quasi spinouts for
multinationals.

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There are sometimes no more than
one woman, or one man saying I

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found a problem we're solving
and I think this is a big enough

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market for it.
So I'll give it a shot Ireland.

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Definitely has a larger startup
ecosystem than you'd expect.

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Spec for a country of 5 million
people like any startup

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ecosystem, it eats seed funding.
So in a roundabout way that

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brings us back to Finn Murphy
from Frontline Ventures.

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C-SPAN quite transparent about
what he looks for in precede

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stage companies specifically in
the specialty of B2B SAS, which

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is business to business software
as a service.

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Specifically with one of his
blogs.

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In 2019 we covered his framework
for Founder's on what to expect

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from VCS investing at the
precede level in episode 68.

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So I thought was a good idea to
go.

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A bit deeper with fin on this
week's episode of money, never

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sleeps.
Here we go again.

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Welcome to money, never sleeps.
Recording today from the home

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studio and we're on with Finn
Murphy.

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Principal at Frontline.
Ventures here in Dublin, Venture

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Capital firm backing B2B SAS
companies with International

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Ambitions investing in seed
stage European startups.

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As well as growth stage.
Us companies coming to Europe in

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addition to their Dublin HQ
Frontline also have a presence

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in San Francisco and in London
and they've invested in the

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likes of pointy which was
recently acquired by Google

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currency, Fair fin.
Born and clear bank just to name

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a few that are going to be
Important to our listeners, that

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actually have a fintech mindset
fin recently.

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Had his two-year anniversary
with Frontline and is a board

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member or Observer on Frontline.
Investments, such as Pathfinder

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on MacLeod Smith, modules, swag,
and ever Vault, amongst others

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Beyond Venture investing.
There's a lot more to Finn

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Murphy but we'll get into that
in a minute.

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So, after that long intro,
finally.

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Welcome to the show.
Finn great.

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Thanks so much for having me on
Petes, I'm back.

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Yeah, strange to be on the show.
Our previous show, covered a

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piece of content that I wrote.
I know.

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I know like you said at the time
it was a bit meta and our, you

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know, our listeners will know
that, you know, we already did

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that show covering your blog
post and the the teardown of it

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of what you think about the
precede Investments.

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And you know, we did that
because it was like reading some

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of my own thoughts aloud that we
could talk about a little bit

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later on and that one came
together a bit at the last

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minute.
As my co-host.

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I want Fitzgerald, he was
supposed to join.

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Me for that episode.
And we recorded that it had

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stuff, which is right across
from your HQ.

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They're in town, but he couldn't
make it at the last minute.

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So that was my first and
hopefully, only monologue

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monologue episode and our
producer Conan Brophy.

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He stuck in some like massage
music in the background there

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you know, just to to ease it for
the listeners but as it turns

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out I just checked the stats on
chargeable.

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It is the second most downloaded
money never sleeps episode out

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of the 80 plus we've done.
In 2018.

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Oh well, I don't know.
Maybe you should monologue more

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often P.
I'm thinking about it.

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We'll see.
But that one was a hard one to

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do.
I think, I, it took 20 minutes

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of recorded content that I
narrowed down to like ten

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minutes.
Just because, you know, lots of

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stops and starts in there.
Anyway, let's dig right into

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your backstory.
Yeah, tell us about that.

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Your back story.
And how you got to this point of

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doing what you're doing today?
Yeah, yeah, sure thing.

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So I probably started Started
when I went to University to

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study engineering study, General
engineering, like a little bit

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of computer, electronic
mechanical civil and then

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probably focused on focus on
mechanical.

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I just prefer it like, to be
honest with you, I'd like was

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not the biggest fan of Computer
Engineering and coding so I was

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like, okay, Mechanicals, the
stuff I'm interested in.

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And it turns out like I kind of
realized when I was in like kind

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of third year sophomore year
that, you know, most mechanical

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Narrows end up being McKinsey
Consultants or investment

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bankers.
I kind of was like, okay maybe

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that'll be fun and applied to
like a BCG internship.

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I think like three times and
never got even to the first

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interview.
So I was like, okay maybe this,

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I maybe I do not have the
certain writing style or skill

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set to actually go into one of
those jobs.

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So I kind of ended up getting
it.

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I was doing a bit of side work
on the side.

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I was organizing events like
parties He's kind of trying to

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make cash while you're in
college and one of the ended up

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doing some work for web Summit
and I kind of some of it was

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volunteered.
Some of it was paid, but you

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just kind of end up getting
exposed to that sort of attack

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world and like, at the time
Venture world, but like in

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reality, I didn't even know what
Venture was.

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I was just really like talking
to you.

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I was talking to people running
companies and it's like, oh, I

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what you guys are doing, seems
pretty cool.

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And that's at a set me down a
path of like, okay.

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Well like, you know, if all
these people can do, White and I

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and, you know, tried a couple of
different start-up ideas and

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college eventually managed to
get one of them funded by the

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university.
And we kind of built that

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business as with the college.
We were attending as our first

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customer spawn that I raised a
little bit of money and ran that

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for about a year.
After we graduated until we kind

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of came to the point of
realizing that we had absolutely

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like no idea what we were doing
or okay, any any idea about me

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and Protect me in particular.
I'd like no idea how to actually

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run a business.
So that was an interesting kind

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of realization where I think you
think, you know, it's like that

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moment of sort of realization
when you realize how little you

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actually know you, you know, you
thought you knew so much and

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then you realize how little you
actually know about anything.

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And that was that was probably
like one of them turning point

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in like kind of my
entrepreneurship Journey was

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like, okay, maybe now Like maybe
I need a little bit more like

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experience or time under my belt
before.

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I'm like, really ready to do
something.

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Do something interesting here
and that kind of led me to, we

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ended up doing a deal with
another fintech business called

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plank to basically kind of Aqua
hire, me and my whole team like

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there were only who's me and
five friends from computer

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science and in Trinity and we
then all join plank at the same

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time where I am when they were
raising their series, a okay.

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That was great like that.
We Had a great time but, you

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know, we kind of learned hard
and Father's again.

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So many things that like at the
time seemed seemed so sensible

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and so normal.
And like now having been in

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Venture for two years, I'm like,
oh my God, I can't believe we,

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like, I actually can't believe
some of that shit happened and

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that, that all ended up kind of
going sideways.

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And, you know, Matt like met
some really interesting people

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and like, had some makes him
like good friendships while we

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were working there.
But, you know, it came to the

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point where that business just
like totally sideways.

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I had to jump out and that
coincidentally time time

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perfectly with when Frontline,
we're looking to hire a new

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member of the investment team.
And they were actually at the

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time, they were just hiring an
analyst and I was like, like,

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fuck it, why not?
I might as well, throw in an

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application and that was yeah,
that was about two years ago to

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around two years ago today.
Wow, wow.

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And that the spin-off that you
had out of the Trinity digital

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ID, right?
That was that was ideally or

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Italy, how do you say?
Say it.

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Oh yeah.
Ideally again, like, I need to,

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I think like another lesson
again.

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You learn is like don't try to
be clever with the name of your

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startup.
Like we were like ha ha.

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It's like ideally and then like
literally every single person we

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spoke to ever was like idly
systems, mirror God.

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Yeah.
No, no, no, you got it right on

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the fact that you only use four
letters right, which, which is a

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good one, but that and I didn't
know about the plank side of

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things because that's really
interesting.

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I saw plank on your LinkedIn
profile but didn't really make

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the connection there.
I've met Charles a couple of

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times and I kind of know what
he's up to today but we'll leave

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that for another conversation.
So it was the Analyst job that

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you went for.
You got it obviously.

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But what how did the
conversations go that built that

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bridge for you from?
Okay.

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You know what I would call in
the u.s. we run from a double

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major in math and and
engineering To doing a bit with,

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you know, being a start-up
founder doing the deal to make

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that part of Plank and then,
okay, then analysts in a venture

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firm.
Tell me about that kind of that

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kind of bridge.
Yeah, like I really had.

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No.
I like, I still I'm like

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question at times whether I have
any idea what I actually want to

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do.
Yeah.

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And you know, I'd applied for a
ton of different jobs, you know,

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there was when I was when I was
leaving plank there was Option

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to go like work in a as a like
consultant for a ton of

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different interesting blockchain
and cryptocurrency projects.

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I was like interviewing for our
product manager role at HubSpot.

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I was talking to funnily enough
pointy about taking on kind of

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going in there.
Had a growth was leaving and

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they were looking to get someone
to replace him and I've been

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doing growth of plank.
So I was kind of looking to step

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into that sort of like looking
to step into that sort of role

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and like All of those things
were kind of in the pipe before

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I ended up getting the offer
from front lawn and like, I've

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had a pretty hard time trying to
decide which is because like, I

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had no idea really anything
about venture or like what the

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job would be.
I'd like some interactions with

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Frontline and some interactions
would be seized while I was

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running.
You know, while I was running my

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company and then to a lesser
extent when we were playing.

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But I just didn't have the I
didn't have enough knowledge to

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know that it was like, okay what
is this actually.

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Is it a career?
Is it an interesting job?

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And then I kind of I called a
bunch of different people.

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And on my finder friends were
like, let you know like base,

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he's a lot of shit like don't ya
don't go to the dark side,

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you're going to be you know
you're going to lose your

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operators Edge and you're just
not going to be able to come

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back to start-up land and then I
spoke to a couple of more kind

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of senior people who've been
around the block.

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And you know, one of them asked
me, they were like, you know,

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00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,500
what's the and at the time, you
know, this was what I was.

226
00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:40,700
Like, the only thing I kind of
had in my head, they were like,

227
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:41,500
you know, what do you want to
do?

228
00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:42,900
What do you actually want to do
in the future?

229
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:44,300
Like, what do you want to do
after this?

230
00:11:44,900 --> 00:11:47,600
It's like, you know, probably
want to start my own company and

231
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,100
I want that looks like, but like
I think I'd probably do want to

232
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:54,000
try to build something at some
point in the future and one of

233
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,500
the one of my mentors, who's a
general partner at another kind

234
00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:01,300
of one of the larger funds in
the UK said, look when you're,

235
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,300
when you were finder, it's that,
it's not like you watch the

236
00:12:05,308 --> 00:12:09,300
movie, it's like, you're the
producer the set designer, the

237
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,200
Actors.
Like, you know, you're the

238
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:15,300
director and you pull everything
together, and you get that like,

239
00:12:15,300 --> 00:12:18,500
really rich experience from
like, seeing how it's all put

240
00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:22,500
together, but at the same time,
like you only get to see one,

241
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:24,500
you know, you only get to do
that on one movie.

242
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,700
While he kind of said, the thing
with Venture is, you know, you

243
00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:31,300
might not get to be the
director, you might not get to

244
00:12:31,308 --> 00:12:33,100
be the actor.
You might not actually get to,

245
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:36,300
like, really get involved in
that many companies, but you get

246
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,600
to see so many.
Yeah.

247
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,800
The DOT Breaths that breadth of
experience, we'll just like

248
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,800
suit.
Like if you do decide to start

249
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,600
another company, not only
helping you an operating that

250
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,600
company, but also deciding what
the, you know, picking the right

251
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,200
thing to work on.
And that to me was kind of more

252
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,900
clenched it in terms of going to
the taking the job in based

253
00:12:56,900 --> 00:13:00,900
taking the job in d.c. after
that fairly you know kind of

254
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:05,200
Meandering path along the way I
get it, I get it, I mean with

255
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,300
anybody if you're good at
something you know there's a set

256
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:14,000
of instincts In you, that really
kind of act as your grounding in

257
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,300
business in anything in life,
right?

258
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:21,000
So if that's there and, you
know, I kind of sense that in

259
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,400
you a bit.
And this is just from reading

260
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,800
your blog post in The Limited
interactions that we've had

261
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,600
Finn, that there is something
there from a business mindedness

262
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,000
perspective.
I don't think you're going to

263
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:37,200
lose your Edge so hopefully no I
get it, I get it and know and I

264
00:13:37,208 --> 00:13:39,200
do agree with you know, that
concept.

265
00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:42,100
Out of the more you see in the
more reps you get with looking

266
00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:46,100
at different companies, the more
you're able to then present what

267
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:49,600
you think you're going to do
next or now really in a better

268
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,100
light, right?
And more concisely in a more

269
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:55,600
compelling way.
So yeah there's a there's a big

270
00:13:55,608 --> 00:13:57,400
benefit to doing this.
Hmm.

271
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:57,900
No.
Absolutely.

272
00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:02,100
And I think, I think that's the
type of the thing would be C and

273
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:04,700
like it's kind of annoying for
anyone who's thinking of like,

274
00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:09,300
getting into VC, is like this,
like to the only two types of

275
00:14:09,300 --> 00:14:10,600
people.
People I've ever seen get into

276
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,400
it.
Are people who are, like,

277
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,700
absolutely like a dedicated to
becoming be seized and they pour

278
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,900
their heart and soul, and they
make it like, they make it a

279
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:24,500
part of their lives or there's
people who are so close to

280
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:29,400
Startup world or like so close
to being a Founder that they do

281
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,800
want to say, fall into it
because like they're still steps

282
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,200
involved in getting there but
like yeehaw, you know, it's like

283
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:39,700
in order to end up in this
position, I happened to be in in

284
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,200
like a place that I didn't
realize was so tangentially

285
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,500
close to what I'm doing now, but
it enabled me to kind of like

286
00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:53,300
slide into slide into this other
row without really having to go

287
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:56,100
through that much of a long
rigmarole of applying to a lot

288
00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:58,800
of different funds or like
trying to figure out even if I

289
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,100
wanted, you know, I didn't have
to decide even if I wanted to do

290
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,800
the job until after I got the
offer which is a pretty, it's a

291
00:15:04,808 --> 00:15:08,100
pretty nice position to be in.
Yeah, absolutely yeah no I get

292
00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:10,400
that and with me like Talking
about before we went on air.

293
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,700
I mean it's been a journey for
me but it's been more of a side

294
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:17,800
path that this is going to
happen eventually.

295
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,500
And I'm nearly there into
Venture and have made a lot of

296
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,800
steps in that direction.
But I feel like it's more of

297
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,800
going to be an outcome of the
process that I'm doing.

298
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,200
Anyway, right.
Which is like you're saying

299
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,400
being that close to startups and
being that close to almost being

300
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,500
a founder, or being a Founder
for that for that matter.

301
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:41,800
So I get that, I get that.
That tell me about your approach

302
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:47,200
with Frontline, right?
Both in terms of how the firm it

303
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:52,300
is investing in startups.
But also how that's become part

304
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:55,900
of your modus operandi or your
modus operandi, to begin with,

305
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,600
write your place in the middle
of that all.

306
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:03,100
Yeah, like I suppose Frontline
was founded about seven years

307
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:09,100
ago to bring a more u.s. style
of venture to Europe you know.

308
00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:11,900
That was, you know, that was the
experience of the GPS, a

309
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:13,900
previous films that worked in
Europe.

310
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:17,500
Was that, you know, it was still
like seven years ago, European

311
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:19,900
bedroom was just, like,
completely different gravy to

312
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:22,900
what it is today.
Like, it was still, like, I

313
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:25,400
think we still, we still lack
the u.s. in some ways.

314
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,900
But like we're mutt, we like
them by like 12 months instead

315
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:33,700
of by like, you know, for years.
Yeah, I think that's like the

316
00:16:33,700 --> 00:16:35,500
style front line of generally
tried to.

317
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:38,300
You know, we don't make any
bones about it where, you know,

318
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:42,900
we're only Trusted in backing
fenders, with really large

319
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,400
Ambitions, you know, and it's
why they kind of the u.s., you

320
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,300
know, there was the front line,
you start this joke, internally

321
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,700
that like you just find any of
the founders who'd gone and

322
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:56,300
tried to raise money from u.s.
funds and write them a check

323
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,200
because if I gave you a good
Benchmark on the scale of their

324
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,500
ambition, so that it's, you know
that but that's really where we

325
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,200
started, you know?
It's like looking for people who

326
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,300
have that like world-beating,
you know, Be I might be here in

327
00:17:10,300 --> 00:17:11,700
Ireland.
I might be here in Denmark and

328
00:17:11,708 --> 00:17:14,700
might be here in the UK, but
like I have just as much of a

329
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:16,900
shot other than anyone is
building one of these wheels

330
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,200
like, you know, breakout
breakout companies.

331
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,400
Yeah.
And you know, that's probably

332
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,200
why we're, you know why we
receive investor is like we're

333
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:30,300
closer we're much closer as a
fund in terms of our DNA, when

334
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:32,600
we're like, you know, we feel
much more comfortable when we

335
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,100
are assessing people and we're
assessing like high-level

336
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,100
markets, then when we're like
tearing apart Financial models

337
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,400
Yes, and I think that's the, you
know, doesn't there's an element

338
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,100
of like perceptive kind of like,
you don't want to Pat, you're

339
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:49,800
not trying to pattern match.
But like you're trying to like

340
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,600
see the world today, like really
clear as clearly as you possibly

341
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,000
can.
And then look for people who

342
00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:00,200
recognize, you know, I've
recognized something that

343
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,100
everyone else is missed and then
back them to go and chase, you

344
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:05,800
know, go and Chase that
opportunity.

345
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,600
So, you know, there for us,
like, you know, that's

346
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,500
investing.
And From like 250 K into a free

347
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,300
product.
Like you know one one man, shop

348
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,000
two two person you know you know
to take like 20 person company

349
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:23,500
doing a billiard about a million
dollars in annual revenue

350
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:25,300
writing like a 10 million euro
check.

351
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,800
So like that's kind of the range
in which we operate but we've

352
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,000
always taken this fact, you
know, people Centric approach,

353
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,400
you know, like for us, you know,
it's like even like people

354
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,500
always ask me this question
about evaluation so it's like

355
00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,000
how should I value my business?
I'm like, Well, how much money

356
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,600
do you need to be successful?
Like at this that you know, what

357
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,000
is success.
It's like you know if success is

358
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,000
getting the cash flow Breakeven
then you know your business

359
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,500
probably isn't for us if it's
getting too strong growth

360
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,100
metrics or a strong product,
but, you know, product

361
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,400
proposition that enables you to
raise another round of financing

362
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,600
at a markup at a pretty
significant might, you know, it

363
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,400
kind of like a 2 to 3 x markup.
That's like okay how much

364
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,600
capital is required for you to
do that and whatever that is

365
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,800
like, that's That's what drives
the valuation it's going to be,

366
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,000
you know, we don't really want
to own more than 25% of a

367
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,400
business like, it's not in,
aren't you know, it's just not

368
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,500
in our interest to do so and we
want to make sure that

369
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:23,500
management teams are properly
incentivized and that, you know,

370
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:26,600
if these businesses are
successful in the future that

371
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,400
they don't require like big
management re-ups because

372
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,700
they've been, you know, then
like absolutely like dilated

373
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:35,900
engine nothing because in the
end, you know, that just hurts

374
00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:37,600
you on the far side that just
hurt you on the far.

375
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,100
Side is an early stage
investors.

376
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,300
Well, yep.
Yep.

377
00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:42,200
No, I get that.
Being very realistic about

378
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,100
things.
We had a viola Jordan off on,

379
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:47,900
from 7% Ventures, back about
seven eight episodes ago and he

380
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,800
was talking about his Benchmark
of a billion, right?

381
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,100
And saying, can this be a
billion dollar company and using

382
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,600
your framework that we that we
looked at?

383
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:02,800
You can kind of walk back into,
you know, going out, get going

384
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,000
five years back, right?
We need to get to today.

385
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,300
You can kind of start to get
your head around, what that It

386
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:12,800
might look like in terms of the
market size as well, but just

387
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,200
talking about your blog post.
You did one more recently in

388
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,300
February where you were talking
about the next decade of Iris.

389
00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:21,400
Start us will look nothing like
the last.

390
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,900
Do you think that covid-19 is
been a bump in the road or

391
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:27,800
potentially an accelerator to
some of this?

392
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,900
What are some of the
observations from last six to

393
00:20:30,908 --> 00:20:32,300
eight weeks or so, in terms of
all this?

394
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:37,900
Yeah, I think covid will Yeah,
it's very tough to know like,

395
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:39,700
you know, I think of it will
pass.

396
00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:42,200
It's the long-term economic
damage.

397
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,200
That's the thing that's really
gonna there will be less,

398
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,900
moderately successful companies
like guarantee.

399
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:51,300
They'll be a lot.
I think there will be a lot less

400
00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,200
moderately successful companies
but I think they will be the

401
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,700
same number of breakout
companies as they would have

402
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,700
been before.
And I think that was my, you

403
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:02,600
know, it's like we made this
joke.

404
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,500
I was talking to another venture
capitalist and like, You know,

405
00:21:05,500 --> 00:21:09,400
there's only been 1 billion
dollar software, I like, you

406
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,400
know, it's not even an outcome
yet there's only been 1 billion

407
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,200
dollar valuation in software in
Ireland, in the last like eight

408
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,900
years, you know, in the last
eight, nine years and then yeah,

409
00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:23,600
that's intercom.
Like that's not good enough to

410
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,800
be.
No, to be an invite like, you

411
00:21:25,808 --> 00:21:28,100
know, as an investor.
If you're just investing in

412
00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:32,300
Ireland that means you have to
be getting that like old-school

413
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,200
style ownership like you know,
you need to be owning like

414
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:37,800
Twenty-five, thirty percent of
these companies if they're not

415
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,100
exiting for big, you know, if
the outcomes aren't sufficiently

416
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:43,900
large.
So I think like my view was, you

417
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:47,200
know, it's really hard to be
what you can see.

418
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,700
And like, I think progressively
as the world's become more

419
00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:54,100
globalized and like, you know,
this like secrets of Sand Hills

420
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:57,700
secrets of Silicon Valley, like
stuff kind of starts to permeate

421
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:01,900
more beyond the Bay Area and,
you know, even the talent that

422
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:03,500
is required to build these
companies.

423
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,200
Also permeates out whether
that's, you know, like, you

424
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,400
know, DocuSign having their
security team based in Dublin,

425
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:12,200
whether it's Zenda is coming
their mobile engineering team,

426
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,300
whether it's, you know, HubSpot
having their growth product

427
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:17,500
team, you know, all of those
things, you know even so like

428
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,800
there's a Londo have their data
science like their whole data

429
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,100
science.
Org is like then opposite Google

430
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:27,500
in Grand Canal dock you know
it's a really simple prediction

431
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:29,500
to get right because I got these
three they're going to be

432
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:31,200
different.
There's just like you know

433
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,100
technology has moved on business
models have moved on but I think

434
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:40,000
The difference that I see is all
of the ingredients are there to

435
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,600
produce five intercoms and it's
partly, you know, the only thing

436
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,600
rate-limiting that is those
companies access to Capital,

437
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,100
which I think is a problem
that's been solved by opening up

438
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,700
with International, you know,
planetary planner, Greylock

439
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:59,400
axle, index and Sequoia.
All did their first, you know,

440
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,100
early stage, Irish investments
in the last 12 months like that,

441
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:07,600
you know, you can take that as
Like once off or you can take it

442
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,900
as I go, they've looked at once
and that means they're going to

443
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:12,500
start looking here again.
So I think the capital problem

444
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:15,600
is solved the like problem.
The next problem is like

445
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,500
talents.
I can these companies actually

446
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:20,900
hire enough high-quality people
in Dublin or do they end up

447
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:22,900
having to shift operation?
Do they?

448
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:25,200
You know, eventually get to a
scale and they have to move to

449
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,300
San Francisco where they have to
move to London where they help

450
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:29,400
to move to Berlin.
I don't think I've been to a

451
00:23:29,408 --> 00:23:33,100
certain extent like provided the
companies, or well, for a

452
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:36,600
moment, which I think the I like
The breakout performance will

453
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,900
be, I think it it can be, you
know, there will there will be

454
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,500
opportunities to hire really
good people who are becoming

455
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,800
available because their jobs are
kind of either have been made

456
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,600
redundant or, you know, are not
necessary or companies.

457
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,500
They're working for shutdown in
other sector, you know, and

458
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:55,900
other parts of the kind of
Technology industry.

459
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:59,000
Yeah, I get that, I get that.
And, you know, that next wave

460
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000
happening to continuing to
develop here in Ireland, right?

461
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,400
And, you know, I always say that
are And punches above its weight

462
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,400
and number of areas compared to
its population, especially in

463
00:24:09,408 --> 00:24:11,400
the financial services sector
where I'm from.

464
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,600
But so much of that Financial
Services sector that is

465
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,300
International Financial
Services.

466
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,100
They really don't know what's
going on at the early stage seen

467
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:24,000
here.
They just don't see it because

468
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,700
it's not that prevalent and it's
not that readily available to

469
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:33,500
see right in front of them.
But it's like any small country,

470
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:37,100
we are 5 million people.
Write this startup ecosystem

471
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:40,700
that we have here is a small
part of the overall economy, a

472
00:24:40,708 --> 00:24:42,800
small part of the overall
working world.

473
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:47,200
And I think it's just it's going
to take time for that to develop

474
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,900
even more.
Now, that all the pieces are

475
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,200
here, it's just going to take
some time to get there.

476
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,200
Do you see anything?
In terms of how those companies,

477
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,900
you know, stay in Ireland and do
grow as an Irish company versus

478
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,900
growing as a US company or as a
UK company?

479
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,300
Yeah, I like I think there's,
you know, there's There's going

480
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:07,600
to be no choice for a lot of
these companies, like, you will

481
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,800
have to open, you are sales
offices.

482
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,400
If you know, you may have to
offer a open the UK sales

483
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,400
office, I think it's more like,
you know, whether the, the

484
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,000
beating heart, so, to speak of
the company can stay in Ireland,

485
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,400
long enough.
And, you know, you can bring in

486
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,900
exact, you can bring an exact
layer that can help build the

487
00:25:24,908 --> 00:25:26,900
company.
I'd like, I would say, the only

488
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:31,400
thing, the biggest rate limiting
factor on, you know, scale up

489
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,200
staying in Ireland, is there
were like A decent amount of

490
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,000
people in Ireland who know how
to operate and run a business

491
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,300
that's going from say 1 to 10.
You know, going from 1 to 10

492
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:45,900
million dollars in annual
revenue.

493
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,000
There were very, very few who
know what the, you know, had a

494
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,300
take a business from 10 to 100
and they were basically none who

495
00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,600
know how to take a business 402,
a billion.

496
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:01,400
And I think like that, where you
end up running the into the rate

497
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,900
limiting factor of like actual
talent and expertise And

498
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:07,900
operators that know how to cover
those areas.

499
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,900
So, like, you know, it's
eventually companies will come

500
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:12,900
to.
It's like having a VP Market,

501
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:15,100
you know, had group having a
great sauce.

502
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:19,800
VP marketing is just almost none
who have actually done it in

503
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,500
Ireland and you can take a
chance on people, but like, you

504
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,900
know, even the in terms of
mentorship, there's not even,

505
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:28,900
there's no one in the local
geography close as people are in

506
00:26:28,900 --> 00:26:30,600
London.
Most of the people are in New

507
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,900
York or San Francisco.
And I think, like, this is why

508
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,500
this duration of Irish startups,
you know, that's either a

509
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:41,100
problem that continues ad
infinitum, or you eventually get

510
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:45,800
a generation that kind of take
those chances and bring in those

511
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,500
exact sand bike train, either
train them here or move them to

512
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:53,000
Ireland.
But it's if you know that is a

513
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,900
very like I think that's the
hardest thing to overcome in

514
00:26:56,900 --> 00:26:59,900
terms of these companies
eventually moving their center

515
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:04,500
of gravity to the US and you
know the tax incentive like you.

516
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:08,000
You can it's it comes down to
things like tax incentives or

517
00:27:08,008 --> 00:27:10,200
comes in things like housing.
It comes to things like

518
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,300
schooling, like, you know, is it
easier for you to convince these

519
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:16,800
incredible people to move their
entire lives to a different

520
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,800
country?
Or is it easier for you to move

521
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,100
your company, decision-making
apparatus to the US and often

522
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:27,200
it's the law either.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean, the

523
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,200
thing is, does, you know, this
new normal, and I don't know

524
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,900
what that new normal is going to
look like right now, but it's

525
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:36,700
going to be different though.
Does that mean that more

526
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:39,500
companies can stay put?
Or is it still going to be?

527
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:42,500
You need to have that physical
in-your-face presence,

528
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:49,500
especially in something like B2B
SAS where you know that there is

529
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,600
still an element, obviously of
Enterprise sales that's involved

530
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,700
with all this D, you know, are
we, do you think we're going to

531
00:27:55,708 --> 00:28:00,300
go back to that or will any of
this, these big new massive

532
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:04,400
efforts for people to virtualize
their sales process over?

533
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,400
Last couple of months.
Yeah.

534
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Will that start to change things
a bit?

535
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,300
Yeah, like I think, you know
those, the thing is if you talk

536
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:16,700
to any remote, like fully remote
business, like so many of them

537
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:19,900
will say it's like God, I wish
we could get more face time with

538
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:24,300
decision-makers on our team and
I think like, yeah, absolutely,

539
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:28,500
this is going to make it more
likely that people like look at

540
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:32,600
remote models but I think like
when it comes to running like

541
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,600
these massive businesses, it's
Gail, you know, there's gitlab

542
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,100
have shown, you can do it as if
you have shown, you could do it.

543
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,900
But I think a lot of companies
will still want their exact, you

544
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:48,600
know, their exact
decision-making teams to be in

545
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,500
the same geography, or, you
know, they will want them to

546
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:55,900
have a co-located office.
And I click, I can see it

547
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,600
becoming easier to do remote.
You know, it can be easier to

548
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,600
spin up a remote sales team.
It can be easier to spin up

549
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:07,300
remote engineering, but, you
know, I I'm yet to be fully on

550
00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:12,200
board with the idea that the
Brain Trust of a company can get

551
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,600
by purely interacting over video
conference.

552
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:19,500
That's what's not from
experience of like talking to

553
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:21,400
companies that do that right
now.

554
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:25,700
You know, that do that right now
and they find it they say like

555
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,900
you can absolutely do it and
it's fine but then you get

556
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:32,000
everyone in the room together
and, you know, you end up having

557
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,200
what was like a month's worth of
discussion over

558
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,600
videoconferencing?
Parents in like two days.

559
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,300
True.
Yeah, I know one of the one of

560
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:41,200
the boards that I'm on.
We do.

561
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,100
What feels like monthly
check-ins with that, that's all

562
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:48,400
video, but quarterly were
together and though you do get

563
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,200
so much more done when it's
face-to-face when you're

564
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,500
actually in the same room, what
do you think are some of the

565
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:58,700
personality traits of yours that
have made this work for you

566
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:02,500
while you're still doing it?
After a couple of years trades?

567
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,200
Have been helpful to you.
Yeah.

568
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:11,600
Gosh personality traits for me,
I'm probably like prone to

569
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,400
Imagining the future.
So you know it's I was playing

570
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,100
chess with someone yesterday and
it's quite funny.

571
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:19,800
I kind of like imagine what I
would like to happen.

572
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,000
Like 556 moves ahead and you
know it's like okay when this

573
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,800
happens I'm going to do really
well and then completely botched

574
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,600
the current move and yeah
weirdly that is actually not a

575
00:30:33,608 --> 00:30:37,000
terrible thing and then Mature.
Like, you know, you kind of have

576
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,600
to like, all of these.
All of these companies is

577
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,700
millions of reasons why they
could fail.

578
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,900
And if you don't have that kind
of like optimism and Imagination

579
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,000
to think about like, okay, well
like what if it all, you know,

580
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,800
what, if it all goes right?
Like what could this be if every

581
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,000
like, you know, if all the cards
fall in their favor, I think

582
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,200
like that kind of like
imagination and like the sort of

583
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,800
positive imagination.
If occasionally, it's to my

584
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,800
detriment in the short term, yes
useful in Venture because it's

585
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,700
generally a long-term game and
you can afford to make small you

586
00:31:16,708 --> 00:31:19,700
know, you can afford to make
small mistakes in the short term

587
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,400
provided you know the bats that
you get away and the vision that

588
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,200
you can kind of share with these
entrepreneurs come playoff I

589
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,900
suppose.
I'm like yeah I just I like

590
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:35,200
talking to like talking to
people and I'd say A, I'm

591
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,900
probably fiercely coming from a
family that's like, fiercely

592
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:43,200
competitive, like, you need, you
have to want to win, you know,

593
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,300
in a lot of these deals.
Like sometimes sometimes

594
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:48,500
there's, you know, the
entrepreneurs are talking to

595
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:51,900
anyone else and you get to just
like, spend a lot of time, like

596
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,000
imagining what the future looks
like with them.

597
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:56,800
Like, you know, quizzing them on
their goals.

598
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,400
Like quizzing them on their team
was in their plans and, you

599
00:31:59,408 --> 00:32:01,000
know, you can get really
comfortable and you can just

600
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,400
decide to do a deal together and
there's no competitive nature of

601
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,300
it at all.
Another times you're like,

602
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:10,000
slogging it out with, you know,
10 of the other, like, smartest

603
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,300
people you've ever come across
working for a bunch of different

604
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:17,000
funds with different brands
different, like portfolios, you

605
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,900
know, different areas special to
are areas of specialty.

606
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:22,700
Like, you know, if you're not
willing to get on a book like

607
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:24,300
this was I supposed to pay me
off now.

608
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:26,700
Would like it used to be like if
you weren't willing to get on a

609
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:30,400
plane and fly to some like
random city in Europe, like 24

610
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,700
hours, notice to go have coffee
and beer with the finder to

611
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:36,100
convince them that your money.
Is better than someone else's

612
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:40,100
money that, you know, you have
to walk yet.

613
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:43,800
You have to like really want it
to actually be up for, you know,

614
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,300
to be up for doing that.
Because most of the time you

615
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:49,600
lose and you're like, God, that
was a complete fucking waste of

616
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:50,900
time.
Oh yeah, yeah.

617
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:54,300
And you're like, oh, well yeah,
I would say probably, I'll

618
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:56,600
caveat that with like you know
you're like oh that was a waste

619
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,000
of time.
And then you're like, okay well

620
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,800
actually I know it's on more but
that industry from I used to

621
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,300
have a pretty good relationship
with an entrepreneur who decided

622
00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:06,300
to go with someone else.
But So now that entrepreneur,

623
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:09,100
I'm like hopefully if they're
successful, you know, maybe

624
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:11,400
they'll have people who work for
them and start companies in the

625
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,900
future, you know, they'll set,
they'll send them my way, but

626
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:19,800
it's, yeah, it's a job of I'd
say, like the thing, the

627
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,500
personality trait in mind that
like is the least suited to.

628
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:28,200
This is the constant feeling
that, like, 90% of your work

629
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,100
output is not like, you know,
non-productive.

630
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:34,700
Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I know it's

631
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,100
Repetition, it's just got to
keep it coming in.

632
00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,800
You got to keep looking at
things, it fueling that I kind

633
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,900
of hear it from you a bit and
that fueling that optimism and

634
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,400
feeling that imagination comes
from talking to people all the

635
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,400
time, right?
You just got to keep doing it

636
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,200
right to get these ideas.
Yeah, I'm like and you gotta

637
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,300
listen to like tons of nonsense
to hear like you know, a couple

638
00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:00,400
of good ideas but you know every
every finder has a good reason

639
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,900
for starting their business.
I'm like you know, but not every

640
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:04,700
business is well suited to
venture.

641
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,800
And you know sometimes the first
time you have a call with

642
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,100
someone is like the second time
they've ever spoken to an

643
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:14,500
investor and you're just like oh
my God, this like you know I

644
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:17,199
feel for you but like you
probably shouldn't have made

645
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,300
your like second investor call
the VC.

646
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,300
And I think that, you know, it
is not like you just have to

647
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:27,800
keep you have to keep talking to
people because if you don't, you

648
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,500
don't have any Benchmark against
which to measure the last person

649
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:34,600
you spoke to.
So like, you know, when we need

650
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,699
a mat You know, when you meet an
amazing entrepreneur, you have

651
00:34:37,699 --> 00:34:41,500
to be able to recognize it and
you have to be able to recognize

652
00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:44,000
it like within 30 minutes.
As you know, the first 30

653
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,900
minutes of speaking to them.
And that's only possible with

654
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,800
like tons and tons of effort,
like, experience and time.

655
00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:56,900
And just like, really having
this knowledge of like, okay,

656
00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:59,200
does this person remind me?
Do they have any of the same

657
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,400
traits of any of the other great
entrepreneurs who have come

658
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,800
across in the past?
I got you, I got you.

659
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,800
That makes sense.
Yeah, yeah.

660
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,200
And you know, like we were
saying earlier being in the same

661
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,000
room and somebody adds that
little bit more oomph your

662
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,600
ability to read somebody and
when you see the I don't know

663
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,900
not you're not that you're
getting that close to them but

664
00:35:17,900 --> 00:35:20,900
where you see the hairs on their
arm, start to stand up when you

665
00:35:20,908 --> 00:35:23,900
say something specifically to
them, or you can see their eyes

666
00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:26,600
move a bit, can always see that
on camera that makes a big

667
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,700
difference in terms of in terms
of venture overall with doing

668
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:33,800
all of these things, talking to
so many people looking at so

669
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,600
many decks.
Having so many conversations

670
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,600
about investing in doing deals,
sometimes you can kind of get

671
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,000
lost in it a bit, but when you
step back to kind of get a

672
00:35:44,008 --> 00:35:46,600
different perspective on things
who do you lean on?

673
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,200
Yeah, I suppose, like I'm quite
lucky in front line where we

674
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,400
were pretty.
You know, we have a good team of

675
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,900
people with varied backgrounds
and experiences but like, you

676
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:58,500
know, often it's like all even
just talk to other kind of young

677
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:00,700
be seized.
I'll talk to friends of mine who

678
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:05,200
are founders and, you know, it's
like I think the thing is For

679
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,900
anyone outside the like startup
Venture ecosystem.

680
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Like you know, I'd like I
remember sitting with a bunch of

681
00:36:11,408 --> 00:36:13,900
friends and I was talking about
like the Uber IPO and the

682
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:16,300
numbers and they're just like
man shut up, you know shut up

683
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:18,200
like nobody cares about tech.
Yeah.

684
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,700
And I could say, I think this
the thing that like tech people

685
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:24,300
like sometimes have a you can
see it on Twitter where it's

686
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:26,900
like there's like an
unbelievable sense of

687
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:30,100
self-importance because it's
like well you know the five most

688
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:34,500
companies in the S&P 500 OR tech
companies, I'm like yeah like

689
00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:36,000
that.
Doesn't necessarily mean that

690
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,600
people give a shit about like
our Network and fast bike, you

691
00:36:38,607 --> 00:36:41,800
know, Network infrastructure
seed Investments and I think

692
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,900
that's the thing.
Like when you're leaning on

693
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:46,800
people you kind of have to lean
on people within the industry

694
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,100
because it is like, you know,
it's niche and it's like finding

695
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:53,000
people.
I think if you if you don't talk

696
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,100
to people who are also as in it
or like is involved in the

697
00:36:56,100 --> 00:37:00,200
disease, you are it can be, you
know, people just be like this

698
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,400
is complete like gibberish and
nonsense so I try to focus on,

699
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:07,900
you know, it's Keep like your
work, taking a have like the

700
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:11,000
group of people who you can rely
on to talk about work and like

701
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,800
talk about like what you think
is interesting, what you think

702
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,300
is not, you know, what you think
is not interesting?

703
00:37:16,300 --> 00:37:18,500
Like, who would be, you know,
who the best entrepreneurs

704
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:22,000
you've met recently but then
like kind of separate that from,

705
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,900
you know, General life?
Because the one thing I kind of

706
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:27,200
been that was child like, you
know, DC is one of those

707
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,000
professions that like becomes a
part of like, you know, it

708
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,600
becomes like part of your
personality where it's like, oh

709
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,400
yeah.
Yeah they were BC or like you

710
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,300
know oh yeah they're a lawyer or
you're there and I can't even

711
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:42,300
investment banker.
And I think like he want to be

712
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,100
able to have that network of
people.

713
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,200
You can lean on for work stuff
with that, kind of making it all

714
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,800
consuming and have like every
social conversation and

715
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,700
interaction, you have being a
bad.

716
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:54,500
Like what do you think about
Quantum Computing?

717
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,700
Yeah.
I know what you mean?

718
00:37:56,700 --> 00:38:00,000
I got it.
I got a good friend that the

719
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,100
industry that he's in.
I am working with startups that

720
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:04,800
are going to completely
revolutionize.

721
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:07,800
Eyes that industry, right?
He doesn't even want to hear

722
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,300
about it.
He just doesn't care.

723
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:10,700
He likes doing business with
people.

724
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:13,900
He doesn't care about the tech
side of things or the you know,

725
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,500
things like transformation.
And so you know what we talked

726
00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:21,900
about sushi, right?
Just bring it back to Sushi

727
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,900
Sushi and beer man.
So you know I say things I could

728
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:28,900
bounce off on but it's just
like, you know, let's not even

729
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:30,400
bother.
So I lean on them for other

730
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,600
things, right?
Finn.

731
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,300
Look at your LinkedIn profile.
I learned a bunch of Stuff that

732
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:37,800
I didn't know about you and I'm
not even sure if you know that

733
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,600
some of that stuff is all out
there and I'm not going to go

734
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,200
through it, but tell us just to
wrap up.

735
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,300
What's one thing that people
wouldn't expect to know about

736
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:47,900
Finn Murphy?
What would they not expect in

737
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:50,500
our Barracks?
You know, it's retrospectively.

738
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,800
You know, it's big but you'd
look at my LinkedIn you'd be

739
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,100
like, oh, this is like a kind of
like obvious path for a fat, you

740
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:59,400
know, this is like, you know,
obviously he was like wanted to

741
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,500
get into startup, some like
wanted to do this and, you know,

742
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:04,700
wanted to be a VC or be offender
whatever.

743
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,700
I like in reality like I have no
like like very little interest

744
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:12,900
in like obviously, like I like
he's my computer a lot.

745
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,600
Did a little bit of coding
played a ton of Xbox but like, I

746
00:39:16,607 --> 00:39:20,800
wasn't like interested in Tech
until like two thing.

747
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,900
I kind of like watch The Social
Network and I was like, oh Mark

748
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:26,100
Zuckerberg is a billionaire
Facebook?

749
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:29,800
Oh, I'll do that and then I was
on a pub crawl, working for web

750
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,800
Summit.
Likely I was, I was organizing

751
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,700
like, you know, 10 euro in on
the door student.

752
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:37,300
Of nights.
Like this was not like, Tech the

753
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,900
height of Entrepreneurship.
I keep like, you know, I

754
00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,700
basically like you were going
out so often that you basically

755
00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:44,400
be like, well, I need to take up
a hobby.

756
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,500
So, you'd like fluctuate between
drinking and smoking and like,

757
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,500
standing on the door.
And, you know, then I was doing

758
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:54,100
that one night with a bunch of
VCS and CEOs and like, I was

759
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:56,300
just talking the Manos.
Like, you people are all really

760
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:58,600
normal and apparently you're on
billionaires.

761
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,700
So like, obviously, this isn't
that hard so like which like,

762
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,300
right respectively.
Now that I'm in it so I'm like

763
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,500
okay that's that.
I was I was probably wrong there

764
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:11,900
but yeah I think that was the
thing.

765
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:17,000
Like I wasn't like it was
external factors that like

766
00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:20,700
retrospectively seem kind of
silly and obvious that like

767
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:24,000
steered me towards making a
series of small decisions that

768
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,700
got me to where I am and, you
know, I think that's that that's

769
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:33,100
something that like, you know,
for very little push, either

770
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:35,700
way, I can be doing something.
Completely different.

771
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:40,100
Like I can be a guy sitting on
like a like, I want to tell you.

772
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:42,300
It was a point in time when I
wanted to be like a ocean

773
00:40:42,300 --> 00:40:44,300
sailor.
Yeah man.

774
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:47,900
I went to be a BCG consultant
this point in time.

775
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:50,900
I think when I was like two, I
wanted to be a tractor and it's

776
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:56,100
like, you know, this is like,
but I think the thing that I

777
00:40:56,107 --> 00:41:00,500
found is like over time, you
make all these small decisions.

778
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:03,900
Some like, once they start, you
know, it's like once they start

779
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:08,000
layering in and come Landing on
each other, it really does start

780
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,400
to pay a dividend.
So I think that was, yeah, that

781
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,500
would be the thing like, yeah,
up until I'd say, yeah, up until

782
00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:17,000
I was 21.
I probably had no interest in

783
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,700
doing a start-up or like
starting and I didn't even have

784
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:22,000
a really, that much of an
interest in starting a business.

785
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:23,700
Yeah.
No, I hear you.

786
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,100
I hear you.
I mean, I myself went from

787
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,400
copped FBI, agent.
Architect to astronaut to

788
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:38,600
baseball player to stockbroker.
GE and wherever the heck I've

789
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,700
ended up these days, right?
So I think at some point you

790
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:44,200
just kind of like we're saying
the beginning that intrinsic

791
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,400
Persona of you lead, you down a
certain path in your life and

792
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,400
you find that right mix of
personal professional.

793
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,000
That makes sense.
But listen, it's been a pleasure

794
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,200
talking to you about this fin.
Really interesting to get to

795
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:58,900
know you after covering one of
your, your blog post on an

796
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:01,900
episode.
So thank you so much for coming

797
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:05,000
out to the show.
And, you know, once this is All

798
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,700
over.
Let's try to find some time to

799
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,900
grab that elusive pint.
Yeah hopefully hopefully it

800
00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:12,800
won't be too long way.
Thanks so much for having me on

801
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,300
the show Peter really appreciate
it.

802
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:23,600
Great thanks.
Vince that does it for this week

803
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,000
folks and thanks to fan for
opening up his mind to help us

804
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,800
figure out why he does.
What he does links.

805
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,300
And show notes for this episode
or on money.

806
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:31,500
Never sleeps that IE.
So check us out online.

807
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:34,300
Remember, if you were a
colleague need help attracting

808
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:36,700
retaining Great talent for your
fintech for financial services

809
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:38,300
company.
It is highly advisable that you

810
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:39,800
build a relationship with the
team at top-tier.

811
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,100
Recruitment, is a really know
their stuff.

812
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,200
You can find them at top-tier
recruitment.com.

813
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,800
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy
from create sound for editing

814
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,200
this podcast.
As for me, I increase the odds

815
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,500
of startup success.
Get in touch with the contact

816
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,000
page on or adventures.com.
You can check out what Owen

817
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,900
Fitzgerald is up to these days
on Twitter at 0 and Fitzgerald

818
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:58,600
nine finally till next time,
thanks for listening.

819
00:42:58,600 --> 00:42:36,700
See you Great talent for your
fintech for financial services

820
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:38,300
company.
It is highly advisable that you

821
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:39,800
build a relationship with the
team at top-tier.

822
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,100
Recruitment, is a really know
their stuff.

823
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,200
You can find them at top-tier
recruitment.com.

824
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:45,800
Also, thanks to Conan Brophy
from create sound for editing

825
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,200
this podcast.
As for me, I increase the odds

826
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,500
of startup success.
Get in touch with the contact

827
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,000
page on or adventures.com.
You can check out what Owen

828
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,900
Fitzgerald is up to these days
on Twitter at 0 and Fitzgerald

829
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:58,600
nine finally till next time,
thanks for listening.

830
00:42:58,600 --> 00:42:59,100
See you