208: MoneyTalks: US Crypto Crackdown | Apple + NBA Top Shot | Solaris Setback | Revolut’s Irish Trojan Horse

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend,
and this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs and the crossover

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of startups, Enterprise Finance,
technology and Life.

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As we know it in this episode
Owen Fitzgerald, my Riff on the

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latest us regulatory, Crackdown
and crypto markets.

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How NBA Top Shot on the Apple
App Store is a leading indicator

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of our wider societies.
Digital asset adoption, whether

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we realize it or not trouble in
banking as a service land with

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Solaris, Nova credits entry to
the UK market and revolutes

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Irish Trojan Horse.
All right here on money.

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Never sleeps.
Hey Owen.

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Hey Pete.
How you doing?

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Good?
How are you not too bad and time

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with a cold here?
But I'm more interested in

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finding out about your nice week
in Sunny Spain.

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The I it was like a on
seasonably warm day in bright so

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wait January.
So it was there's this wind that

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comes down from the Pyrenees
down the west coast of sorry

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down the east coast of Spain
called Levante and that They

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kept things a little bit windy,
kept the sees a little bit

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choppy, no swimming, really
tight, current all that.

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We brought all of our, you know,
warm water, cold water swimming

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gear.
Even didn't get to use any of

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that, but thankfully, our
friends had a pool and so, you

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know, our kids got to go
swimming in that which was nice

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but it was like, you know, a
five-day sneak away Friday to

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Tuesday in the middle of this
techstars web 3.

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Yeah, Madness is a good way to
say it because we've crunched

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this all down to leave
applications open till February

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1st.
Pick the cohort basically by,

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you know, by the end of
February.

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And so it's a lot to get through
and I can't speak publicly about

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the number of applications.
But we were impressively floored

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by the important applications
that we got in and such

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high-quality propositions high
quality teams.

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You know, that's what we double
down on, is the high quality

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teams, the great founder.
So it's just been, it's been

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non-stop.
It's literally non-stop.

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So I did every night till after
midnight.

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Before we went to Spain and then
was able to shut off a little

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bit, because thanks to Paul
Smith been working on that

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meditation, right?
And I can quiet the brain a bit

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now and that we've got but then,
you know, rep right back into

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and it's been non-stop since we
went back.

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So, the whole weekend before we
left and all this past weekend

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but we're in pretty good shape
now and it's really, really

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excited about.
You know, they companies that

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we're getting closer to making
offers to we made an offer to

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one already.
So, you know, more to come,

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which is, you know, really
really exciting times but it's

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it's Relentless and I was saying
a folks this morning, what it's

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really opened.
My eyes up to is a power deal

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flow, right?
And that I genuinely get excited

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with humor GE who is our
investment principle.

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When he finds a deal that he's
really excited about because

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he's done all the Deep analysis
on it.

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And he's talked to the team and
he said I've got a good one here

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and I get really excited when
he's like, Okay, we've got high

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quality one for me, to dig into
to and what I found is that when

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I start expressing that passion
and that sentiment that

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excitement to investors that,
they it resonates with them too.

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And that's what we want.
We wanted absolute companies in

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front of investors, so this you
know, high quality vetted deal

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flow when you're in early stage
VC you should only be investing

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in one to two percent of the
deals you see, right?

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And we're going to get to that.
You know that's that's the The

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that's the rate we're going to
be at here one to two percent of

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the deals we see.
So we're finding a top-quality

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one is you know, but it's an
amazing experience.

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So really exciting to see know
what when the cord gets

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announced, what type of
companies you have will be cool.

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Yeah, yeah, we were able to open
this up more to infrastructure

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last year.
We couldn't because we needed

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everything to be tokenized.
Generally, you don't need to

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tokenize infrastructure
companies in web 3 or in any You

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know, in any web and it's.
So now that we have that Liberty

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to be able to say, hey we can
invest, you know, we while last

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year we did invest in both
equity and tokens that you know

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we are what the requirement was
is that they needed to have some

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type of token.
Now it's just okay, we can

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invest in equity and tokens if
they have a token but we're

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going to look at that with a
huge amount of scrutiny to see

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if they really do need a token.
Yeah, it's tokens can.

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Sometimes be used as a hey
that's going to be an Easier way

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to raise money, not anymore from
a market perspective and not

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anymore from a regulatory
perspective.

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So there's two things to be to
be looking at there but

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legitimately some have tokens
the middle of the value

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propositions which are
completely necessary, right that

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they do need them.
And so okay let's see how we

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make sure we can get that into
the right regulatory context

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with got a bunch of amazing
folks with some great legal

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experience that are contributing
to the program.

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So you know we're good shape
there.

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Bruno's print.
So what do I talk about today?

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What I want to talk about today,
we got a few things going to do

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for, we're going to do half and
half, but I think there's some,

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some topics here that are, you
know, more crypto, web, three

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leaning that.
I think you'll you've got some

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insights on.
I think you do.

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You know, and I, this is funny
that you and I are now both

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speaking in these.
Shall we say cloggy tones given

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that I wanted to make sure I
said this was that we did have

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to take two weeks off because of
the intensity.

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Of this screening process and
the last time that I actually

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put my voice on are three weeks
ago was when it was far worse

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than this when I was coming back
from New York and I had lost my

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voice the night before, just
like you nearly David last

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night, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

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I was like trying to protect it
all day yesterday and I, because

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I was lecturing.
Lastly, for four hours.

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And at the end of us like it
was, I was croaking.

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Yeah.
Yang's like lots.

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And lots of breakout rooms you
guys.

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Talk there.
Amongst yourselves.

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I know, I know.
I spoke with someone at 5 a.m.

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after I lost my voice a night
before or try to and it was just

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like, okay let's just yeah I'll
see you on slack because that's

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not working, but go to buying no
back with a bang back with a

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bang lot, so much stuff
happening in the crypto market.

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And, you know, being over the US
last month, felt a little bit of

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this from being there and buy,
you know, it.

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But, you know, over the last
four weeks, it's really come out

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strong in that, this is from
CNBC.

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DC and it was just a general
story that they did last week on

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Valentine's Day.
Love crypto right.

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Crypto markets.
On edge is US regulatory

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Crackdown on industry
intensifies.

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So the news items, the things
that this article pointed to

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were paxos to stop, minting be
USD.

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Now paxos do a couple of things.
They provide they have their own

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stable coin right?
Which is pegged to the u.s.

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dollar called I think it's usdp
for SD paxos.

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And they also have a white label
framework that they provide out

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to others that want to Mint and
have a stable coin.

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So they provide their kit to
finance and finance use the

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paxos kit to Mint be USD which
is financed USD stable coin.

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Okay so what's happened is that
the SEC or suggesting?

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It's a security, how can a asset
that's pegged?

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To the US dollar, be a security.
So a good question.

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I don't know.
Now, I've been thinking about

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this so stable coins.
Can have a somewhat murky model

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behind them.
Okay, so if you're familiar with

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eMoney and electronic money,
institution regulatory framework

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in Europe and you're nodding
your head.

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So I think that you are so to
Monty.

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So, before, you know, take
revolute, right?

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They are still in Imani
institution in the UK.

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They're not yet a bank, they are
a bank in Europe.

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So if you're Annie money
institution, you need to have

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100% of the deposits into your
entity, your institution.

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You need 100% of that
safeguarded and it needs to be

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in a safeguarding account marked
as such at a you know, at a

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bank.
Okay.

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So even though you are an e
money institution or you know,

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electi money, you still need to
have that one for one match.

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You cannot lend that money out.
So, and that is saying that this

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digital representation that you
see in your app and your

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revolute app, where you have 500
quid or whatever, but that

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digital representation is
actually backed 100% by real

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cash that is on deposit
somewhere else.

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In a banking model, you don't
need to do that because you have

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the true banking license, a real
banking license and that you can

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lend out the bank can lend out
your deposits, right?

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No.
The holder reserve of 10 to 15

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percent or whatever it is so
with e money.

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That is regulated.
You need to have all the

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compliance of procedures the
checks in place, to make sure

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that there is actually a hundred
percent of the cash that

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customers deposit into your
Imani, institution is actually

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on deposit and held and you do
all the reconciliations are

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right.
If you look at the stable coin

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model, the stable coin model is
very, very similar to e money in

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that.
What the way that stable coins

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work is that when you buy say
USD, see that the The Fiat or

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the traditional currency that
you exchange, for that, that is

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on deposit with that stable
coin, issuer and whatever Bank

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they're using for that.
Now, there are no regulatory

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rules in place that's different.
So with emis, you need to have a

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hundred percent cash with stable
coins.

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You can do what you want.
You could say, hey I'm going to

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do 85 90 percent in cash, and
the rest and treasury bills.

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Right?
So the fact that there is no

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regulation around this, there is
no required compliance regime

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and that then suggest, okay, if
there is a murky model or we

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don't, we know it, you know, USD
see Circle have been pretty

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transparent on their model and
how much cash is actually on

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deposit and what isn't t-bills
and other type of instruments

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tether have been less.
So you sdt be USD, who knows,

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right?
Finances as we've been talking

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about their stable coin.
So if be USD, has any murkiness

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to it, is there a risk that PUSD
could go belly-up?

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Perhaps that's one thing and
that would be terrible if we had

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a widely-used stable coin with a
billions and billions of

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billions worth of economic value
in it, that just is, is gone

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because we have no transparency
on how Bine answer actually have

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their Reserve model in place.
So I think what they're doing is

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saying that this is a security
in a roundabout way saying that

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if if you as a depositor are
knowingly, it giving Seeing

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somebody cash and you're not
sure what they're going to do

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with it.
Maybe they'll lend it out, maybe

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they'll do something else with
it, but they're going to give

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you back, you know, they say
they'll give you back a dollar

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for every dollar you deposit
then, is that a security?

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Because there is an expectation
that they're going to have to do

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something to turn a profit in
order to pay you back that

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dollar that I think is where
this is all going, which is

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incredibly complicated, adored
it strikes me without Illness in

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the details, Eunice 30, would it
does strike me that there isn't

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part of the issue in the u.s. is
that there weren't regulations

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in place, you know, originally
in the same way that there is

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any money license.
For example, you know, you've

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got, you know, a strange kind of
regulatory landscape in the US

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by state and from at a federal
level and stuff.

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And I think now obviously with
crypto kind of, doesn't it kind

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of expands on the gray areas
that were already there and

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typically, what are they trying
to do?

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Do and what we've seen in Europe
would like to kind of ask for

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licenses, do visitor, trying to
just make these things fit into

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an existing one, is the quickest
and easiest way to, you know,

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capture what's going on the
crypto space and in the US, they

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don't have that option because
they didn't really have the

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00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,300
right legislation around even
the fintech space or the, you

224
00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:53,500
know, the regulation that kind
of covered some of the

225
00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:55,700
innovation in fintech prior to
even crypto.

226
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,200
So there are chasing their tails
a little bit and they're trying

227
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,900
to make it fit into whatever
existing kind of framework is

228
00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:03,700
there.
Which is why you need to

229
00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:05,600
probably try to classify things
as Securities.

230
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,600
When you know, they don't look
like a security.

231
00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:12,900
Yeah, yeah.
I'm you know I listen to the

232
00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:16,100
guys from on the brink Matt
Walsh and Nick Carter from

233
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:19,100
Castle Island Ventures or sieve
as they call themselves

234
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:23,300
internally, which I heard them
say, and they were trying to dig

235
00:13:23,300 --> 00:13:27,100
into this and didn't really dive
in, they switch to a deep dive

236
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,400
into the custody role, which is
a different kettle of fish, I

237
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,800
won't get into, but I, I'm while
listening to them and walking up

238
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:39,200
in the step side Hills, I was
thinking deeply about what could

239
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,600
be the logic for saying that a
stable coin is security.

240
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:46,100
And the only thing I could come
up with was that, if you are,

241
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:49,400
like I said, if you are
willingly giving your cash to

242
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,000
somebody knowing that they're
going to have to turn a profit

243
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,100
in order to pay you back one
dollar that is that some type of

244
00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:59,400
a security, right?
You know, without having that

245
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,800
regulatory hate, this needs to
be 100 backed Imani is not a

246
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,700
security because I'm from a
regulatory perspective, it needs

247
00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,400
to be 100% back by cash, you
know?

248
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:13,500
So, That's all I could get to.
Also what happened was it

249
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,900
crackin settled with the SEC for
30 million on its taking is a

250
00:14:16,908 --> 00:14:20,700
service being deemed a security?
Which is like, I remember seeing

251
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:22,900
that one and thinking and seeing
a lot of commentary online

252
00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:24,900
thinking that that was look,
that was a bit of that seemed

253
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:28,300
like a bit of a reach.
Yeah, in the end, Jesse Powell

254
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:30,600
from cracking had a lot to say
about that on Twitter.

255
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:35,600
But and they but they didn't
seem like the quickest answer

256
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,300
was to settle and make it go
away.

257
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:39,100
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Clean.

258
00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:42,700
This, this is where you are
depositing crypto onto an

259
00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,600
exchange and because the
exchange is collecting so many

260
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,800
deposits from all their
different users and customers

261
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:53,700
that they can pull that together
and put that, it's take that

262
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,700
onto one of the blockchain.
Protocols that rewards takers

263
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:02,200
with additional tokens.
Okay, so when you look at that

264
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:05,600
under traditional Securities
laws, there's some of that that

265
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,400
may suggest that it, what is Is
cracking themselves.

266
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,700
Doing I disagree with the ruling
100% because you need to look at

267
00:15:15,708 --> 00:15:18,000
the technology.
And when you piece apart the

268
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,500
technology and how it works you
can see oh actually no that's

269
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,500
not a security.
Yeah but the SEC is making some

270
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,900
very high-level calls.
I think I've said before I have

271
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:31,200
met Gary Gensler before.
He did a blockchain curriculum

272
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,100
at MIT, he was over in Dublin.
A few years ago I participated

273
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,400
in a panel that he was part of
the panel before very very smart

274
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,500
guy.
He knows this stuff.

275
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,700
But I think in order for that,
you know, he's in a political

276
00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:48,200
position and the stuff that I
hear him saying that the stuff

277
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,100
that I hear him saying, Isn't
the same Gary Gensler.

278
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:57,300
I met four years ago, right?
Because he was talking about it

279
00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,800
with a far more informed
position, shall we say?

280
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,600
No, the whole thing stinks of a
need for a political point of

281
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,600
view to address, you know, the
crypto space, and feel like

282
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:10,900
they're doing something.
And the quickest way to do that

283
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:14,500
is to shoehorn it into some
existing regulation, exactly.

284
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,800
Exactly.
You know, and, and, and, you

285
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,300
know, I'd take to close this one
out.

286
00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:20,500
Why you get so excited about it
and, and, and think so.

287
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:24,000
Play about it is just because I
can see and having so much

288
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,100
familiarity.
Now, with the Imani institution

289
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:30,400
framework and having so much
familiarity with the stable coin

290
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,300
framework, that is, primarily
driven out of the US.

291
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:34,600
And I'm like, can't we just all
bring it together please?

292
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,900
Yeah.
Yeah, you know and I think Mica

293
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:41,200
the market and crypto assets
framework is very clearly

294
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,800
pointing to the fact that stable
coins re money.

295
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:48,700
So let's just get it there.
And I Circle have now issued the

296
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:52,600
yurok, the EU.
You Euro Circle, stable coin,

297
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,200
there's only like 35 million in
that.

298
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:58,300
So very, very tiny.
But, you know, I'm taking some

299
00:16:58,300 --> 00:16:59,700
steps in that direction, shall
we say?

300
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,800
But, you know, there's no upside
on that.

301
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,200
It's just to kind of, you know,
get yourself into the middle of

302
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,700
what are these day-to-day
consumer?

303
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:10,500
Transaction flow is going to
look like, when we're basically

304
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:13,300
all spending cryptographically
secure tassets, right?

305
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:17,400
That's the joy of it all.
Moving to the other side of the

306
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,900
passion.
Yeah, right.

307
00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:20,500
What do we pay?
What am I passionate about?

308
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,200
Audience, sports right?
Of course family.

309
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,300
And you know, NBA top shots,
right?

310
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:32,900
So Top Shot will let users by n
FTS via Apple and Android mobile

311
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:39,100
apps, which is a big deal.
So up until now again just for

312
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:42,500
those that don't know and be a
top shots are and ftes non

313
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,400
fungible tokens that are digital
Collectibles of NBA players.

314
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,900
Okay.
And it isn't just static images,

315
00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:52,500
it can be 3D imagery.
Re it can be highlight moments

316
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:57,100
and but they're all issued on
the flow blockchain, which is

317
00:17:57,100 --> 00:18:00,200
from Dapper labs and it is
basically what we would call a,

318
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:02,100
a private blockchain.
Okay.

319
00:18:02,100 --> 00:18:07,400
So you you can't really you
can't move assets off of that

320
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,300
blockchain to other blockchains.
All of the transactions need to

321
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,000
be done on that single flow
blockchain which was set up

322
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,700
specifically for NBA top shots
so it's almost like a quasi

323
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:22,800
centralized blockchain right.
But For the purposes of enabling

324
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,900
transfer amongst those who are
all part of this.

325
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,000
You know, that are that are
basically customers of NBA Top

326
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,000
Shot, it works.
Okay.

327
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,700
So what happens is that you go
on to NBA top shots on to their

328
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,000
website.
So before they they're opening

329
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,500
up an Apple Store, you go onto
the website.

330
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,500
You set up all your login
details and you can use

331
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:47,300
basically a credit card to buy a
$9 pack of cards of digital

332
00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,400
cards and you see what you get
now.

333
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,800
If you get one of the legendary
LeBron James, that is now

334
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,900
selling on NBA top shots,
Marketplace for eighty, four

335
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:02,500
thousand dollars.
Well yeah, so all of that was

336
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:05,200
done on the website because they
hadn't yet figured out how to do

337
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,700
this, on Apple Store on the App
Store and but if you want to do

338
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,000
it on your mobile, obviously you
needed to do it through web

339
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:13,700
right through a chrome interface
through as far interface,

340
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,400
whatever that can be a bit
clunky.

341
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:21,200
So now they have the app and the
and as you remember Take rate is

342
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,900
for apple 30% to exactly.
So when you put 30 percent on

343
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,900
top of the purchase of a nine
dollar pack of these cards, not

344
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:32,500
a big deal.
You know, you're going to gross

345
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:36,400
that into the price and apple
gets their cut, you know, not a

346
00:19:36,408 --> 00:19:40,400
big deal but it's the upside.
Are you going to go sell your

347
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,900
eighty four?
Thousand dollar LeBron James

348
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,200
card?
And wait a second.

349
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:47,800
You give away.
No, you're not.

350
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:49,500
So all that.
They've done in the App Store is

351
00:19:49,500 --> 00:19:53,000
the primary Market Place, or you
can just buy those cards.

352
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,000
You can buy the initial pack for
nine dollars.

353
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,100
They have an open up the
secondary yet, and I don't think

354
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:01,000
they will.
So this is kind of equivalent to

355
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,200
back in the 80s and 90s.
They had baseball card shows

356
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,600
where you could, you know, you
bought a pack of baseball cards

357
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,200
for a dollar or two, and then if
you got a really good one, you

358
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,900
could bring it to this card
Convention Show and you could

359
00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:17,600
sell it to a dealer for, you
know.

360
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,900
For, I don't know if you got
one, that was worth a couple

361
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,600
hundred Right?
And it was that the, you know,

362
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,900
the convention center itself,
taking a 30% cut.

363
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:31,200
That's that never worked.
And I don't think it, you know,

364
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:36,600
that wouldn't work with Apple
store, but I see this slowly

365
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,900
starting to work and slowly
starting to unfold with having

366
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:46,300
these digital assets actually
work on the app store, right?

367
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:50,200
It's it's, there were some big
conundrum in the last.

368
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,700
As months or so that we talked
about on this show, about that

369
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:55,800
going back and it was very
confusing.

370
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,800
But now I think I got my head
around it as to, you know, where

371
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,300
this actually is all going to
go.

372
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,600
Yeah, you know what it seems
like looking at.

373
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,600
This is the first step, like it
works for topper labs to be able

374
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,000
to get up on the App, Store
non-mobile and be able to kind

375
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000
of be integrated.
And even if they just sell under

376
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,500
nine dollars packs but like they
did a billion in sales last year

377
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:19,300
or something.
So Apple, surely will look at it

378
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:21,100
and be like look if it was I was
Works.

379
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:24,100
Then we'll figure out some
solution down the line.

380
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,100
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.

381
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:30,400
And, you know, I wonder how it
could work.

382
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:38,500
So is the opportunity for Apple
to have all-nba, Top Shot sales.

383
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,600
Like you said, a billion, go
through the App Store and for

384
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,700
them to get 30% of that.
Is that going to be enough to

385
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:48,600
get them thinking about a new
framework, for a secondary

386
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,200
market for digital assets.
And to create a new category of

387
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,400
at a crate around that, right?
That will be Progressive, that

388
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,800
will be something that others
can adapt to.

389
00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:04,300
And I think we stand because the
more and more and more that we

390
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,500
have of Apple supporting this
stuff, the bigger it's going to

391
00:22:07,508 --> 00:22:09,300
get.
Yeah, I mean, exactly, I read

392
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:13,900
yesterday like 70% of gen Z,
people gen Z in the u.s. prefer

393
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:19,200
iPhone or Android, right?
Yeah, you know, so it but it is

394
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,200
the the, I think, France here
kind of me is probably the

395
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,500
resale is the fact that these
can be traded multiple times.

396
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,100
So you know, whatever.
Let's say they come down from

397
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:32,400
30% to 10%, you could get 10
percent of multiple transactions

398
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,400
on the same nft and that's
where, you know, I think once

399
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,800
they figure out the number and
the likelihood of resales and

400
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,900
things like that, you know, the
multiple is, will be worth it.

401
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,200
Yeah, that's as opposed to, you
know, your traditional a for

402
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:46,900
you're paying once maybe for
whatever.

403
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:50,700
Whatever it is, you're buying or
even Spotify or for an album or

404
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:52,600
whatever, you know you're doing
it one time.

405
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,100
You can't reset it on
necessarily.

406
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,500
Yeah, I know, I think Spotify
might actually be in this player

407
00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:01,900
in this reader app where I'm not
sure if Spotify memberships.

408
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:05,800
Are subject to the 30% Apple
Store take.

409
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,900
They may be because obviously
they're a competitor to Apple.

410
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:10,600
So, yeah.
Who knows what?

411
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,900
One of the, one of the other
things that came out of this.

412
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:17,500
I mean, what I'm what I'm really
looking for from an app, is

413
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:21,100
that, you know, whatever my
collection is and whether it's

414
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:25,900
NBA top shots, or it's the tops
candy baseball ones or

415
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,800
generative art or some of this
Robert Alice stuff with that.

416
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,000
We, you know, we talked about a
few years ago that he's doing

417
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,100
Thing with these cuneiform discs
all linked to the original

418
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:39,200
Bitcoin blockchain.
You know, first 40 blocks, link

419
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,800
to historical moments, all this
crazy mind-bending stuff, right?

420
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,800
And seeing some really damn cool
generative art stuff, come out

421
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,000
of some of the companies were
looking at for this next

422
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,500
accelerator program having that
single viewer where I can just

423
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,500
engage with this stuff on my
phone is probably going to be

424
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,500
the single biggest way that I
would engage with it.

425
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,100
No looking down at a browser on
a laptop.

426
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:05,300
I just don't want Do that.
It's really about the ergonomics

427
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,800
of the phone and what that phone
was designed to do, right?

428
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,700
It's to be this Communications
portal in this Digital

429
00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:14,000
entertainment portal for you,
right?

430
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,200
You know, in the palm of your
hands.

431
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,000
And that's how people enjoy
these things having NBA top

432
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,200
shots.
Now, in an app on a phone, I

433
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,400
think is a big first step in
that direction, especially for

434
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,700
mainstream adoption.
Like testimony have it in.

435
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:30,300
Everybody's hand, like, you'll
just look what I just got.

436
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,900
Screenshot Click Boom, post it
up on Instagram.

437
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:34,400
All my friends.
Wonderful.

438
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,300
Hey, I'm cool.
Right?

439
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,900
You know, that, that is the way
it's going.

440
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:43,200
The other thing I saw in this is
where the shout-out to peppery,

441
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,900
shh, who writes the sporting
crypto newsletter because I

442
00:24:46,908 --> 00:24:49,300
hadn't seen this, because I
didn't watch the NBA All-Star

443
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:53,200
game where David Silber.
Sorry, David silver.

444
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,700
Is that his name?
I think it is.

445
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,500
Adam Davis was Adam, Silver.
David silver was on Beverly

446
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:01,600
Hills 90210, so let's say I'm
good.

447
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:07,200
Adam Silver, he Jesus, I'm
dating myself with that.

448
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:09,800
So him and Ahmad Rashad Ahmad
Rashad senen.

449
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,600
Be a announcer on NBC.
I think the So Adam Silver took

450
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,000
his phone and it did a 360
degree view, shot of Ahmad

451
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Rashad.
And then showed this screen

452
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,500
based representation is actually
the game and it is an app

453
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:30,500
overlay, on top of you watching
a game where you create this

454
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:34,700
Avatar of yourself and you can
check over search into the game

455
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,800
highlights.
The I saw that, that's so cool.

456
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,500
Oh my God.
And and pepper isha's, you know,

457
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,600
title for this was the metaverse
doesn't suck and it's like I saw

458
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,900
that and seeing that paired with
the stuff going on with NBA top

459
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:50,600
shots.
Seeing the opportunity to start

460
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,500
to link all that together and
see this multimedia.

461
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,300
Augmented reality type of stuff,
that's all happening.

462
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,400
Be able to have that in the palm
of your hands and your phone

463
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,800
that is just, that's huge.
It's a game change.

464
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,000
Such a big moneymaker.
And, you know, I think the

465
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,300
biggest thing that I'm seeing
again with, you know, looking at

466
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:09,900
all these different companies
that are applying to this

467
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,200
program.
I've said I said we're seeing so

468
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,900
much of this stuff, right?
We're seeing so much of it.

469
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:18,100
All these different propositions
that are, you know, close

470
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:21,400
cousins of each other.
The biggest biggest ones, the

471
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,500
ones that will really be able to
have an impact, are those who

472
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:26,500
can bring the fame, right, those
that have the networks in the

473
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:29,800
relationships to bring the fame.
And obviously, you know, nbar,

474
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:31,400
great example, of that and
Dapper Labs.

475
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,300
Now, being a great example of
that, but lots of nice little

476
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:36,100
things happening with really
smart people from these

477
00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:39,300
businesses that are saying, hey,
I can go do something to, I'm

478
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,400
gonna go launch my own but I
have this great network from

479
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,300
being part of this.
So yeah, that's that's a way to

480
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:46,500
look at it.
So yeah, exciting stuff

481
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:49,400
happening coming out of that,
would again be a and having both

482
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,000
Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown in
the NBA.

483
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,300
All-Star game from the Boston
Celtics of protocol.

484
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,100
So there you go.
Did you have?

485
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:59,300
Did you see?
It was named the guy who won the

486
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:01,000
dunk contest?
I watched his dogs, they were

487
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,500
brilliant.
I usually just, he just I joined

488
00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:05,800
the league from like the
g-league reserves.

489
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,500
This is because he's only unlike
a rookie contract.

490
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:12,400
One-year contract, he made more
money and winning the dunk

491
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,000
contest any door.
Then he gets paid for the year,

492
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:17,800
but like, not a guy you would
look at and think is going to

493
00:27:17,808 --> 00:27:19,300
win dear.
He got four.

494
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,900
He did four dunks.
And three of them were like

495
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:24,700
perfect scores.
Mac McClung McClung.

496
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:26,600
Yep.
Wow.

497
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,400
From the seven White Men.
Can't Jump.

498
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,000
You want to see his dunks.
They were brilliant.

499
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:32,800
I'm so good now.
I'm definitely going to have to

500
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,300
check that out.
Yeah, Sixers guard Mac McClung,

501
00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:38,800
outshines tray Murphy to claim
the slam dunk title.

502
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,100
Yeah, so watch that, watch that
somebody was really good.

503
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:43,900
Yeah, yeah, I know, I will check
that out.

504
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,000
I will check it out.
Cool.

505
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:52,400
So moving from crypto and then
ba back to Europe, we see some

506
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,300
trouble with Solaris, don't we?
Yeah.

507
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:56,400
Joe, what?
This was an interesting one.

508
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,700
It was in Forbes.
On the 15th of February, this is

509
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,300
around, it's called Solaris
setback spells trouble, for

510
00:28:01,300 --> 00:28:03,800
European fintechs scene.
And this was, was it even

511
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,200
necessarily trouble as it call
it for Solaris, but it speaks to

512
00:28:08,208 --> 00:28:11,300
The Wider, kind of banking as a
service and embedded Finance

513
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:15,300
piece because Solaris of Z is a
German bank is service provider

514
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,000
and they've and baffled German
Regulators come down on these

515
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,900
types of operations to say that,
like in in this particular

516
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:25,200
example, Solaris is going to
need approval from the You later

517
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,300
for the onboarding new
customers, which obviously is

518
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:31,200
going to hit it Ambitions but
it's the idea of kind of

519
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,300
launching any sort of digital
Finance solution, where you have

520
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:40,200
multiple partners is going to be
an issue and like the these are

521
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,500
similar.
This was kind of this

522
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:44,800
restriction was put on in 26.
And another kind of German

523
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,400
banking is a service provider
and it's around there, obviously

524
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,100
it's on the back of kind of wire
card, you know, that the

525
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:53,800
regulator is operating with
caution but it really extends

526
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,500
out to the What kind of moving
parts of banking slash tech

527
00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,600
company going to see if you
remember from our cards?

528
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,300
You know, I was actually only
talked about it last night as an

529
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,500
example, with the cohort in the
pat fintech course.

530
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,200
Then it was around the fact that
the regulator got sued by

531
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,400
customers who'd lost money and
The Regulators argument was,

532
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,500
well, we didn't need to regulate
wire card because it was a tech

533
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:19,500
company, you know, they they
regulated the license payment

534
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:23,000
side of the house, not their
Tech part of the business.

535
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,100
And obviously that's where this
that kind of experience is

536
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:31,100
feeding in now.
Because you know, the idea of

537
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:34,000
banking as a service and being
able to offer multiple different

538
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,900
parts as a tech platform in out
of Germany, is getting kind of

539
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:41,500
really hampered by The View that
the back that said ermine

540
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:45,800
Regulators taking So you know
we're Solaris we're looking to

541
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,400
provide kind of embedded Finance
Solutions with for earlier stage

542
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,700
companies Etc.
But notes they're going to have

543
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:55,500
to extend their kind of existing
relationships with larger

544
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:58,400
players because the really
restricted from bringing on new

545
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,700
customers.
So It'd be interesting to see,

546
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:04,100
does that kind of flow out
Beyond Germany?

547
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:06,800
Because they're an incredibly,
like they've been doing very

548
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,200
well.
They've been really attractive

549
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,700
kind of supporter and solution
in the market.

550
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,800
And I think they'd been in Spain
and Italy and France as well.

551
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,500
But yeah, it really is going to
have a top business for what

552
00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:20,100
kind of knock on effect?
Does that have on the kind of

553
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:23,300
embedded Finance banking?
The service Market will be

554
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:25,200
interesting.
Yeah yeah.

555
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,900
I mean the the sentence that
stood out for me in this article

556
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:31,200
on Forbes by Megan Johnson whose
form Lee with a one of the

557
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,200
original cofounders of eleven fs
and she is.

558
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:39,500
She said that the Baffin appears
who is German regulator.

559
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,100
The Baffin appears to be
cracking down on institutions

560
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:45,000
with full banking licenses, due
to concerns about proper

561
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,400
business organization.
In quotes, proper business

562
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,100
organization.
You look at that.

563
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:51,800
That's a, you know, Minefield
right there?

564
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,400
That's a big, big, big suitcase
down pack but you know, you talk

565
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,500
about governance.
How organizations are set up,

566
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,000
what the reporting lines are
like, what Management framework

567
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,900
is like the reporting structure.
The compliance program.

568
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:08,200
The risk management having
evidence of all that stuff,

569
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,800
proper business governance and
business organization.

570
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,300
We know what that looks like
from our time in the corporate

571
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:18,800
world right now.
But you can't just inject that

572
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:23,500
sense of you know what's good or
not into the mindset of a

573
00:31:23,508 --> 00:31:27,400
technology executive you can't
write.

574
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,300
And when it's you know, when you
are just a bag Bank, you're just

575
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:35,800
a financial player you know your
day-to-day decisions are hell of

576
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,100
a lot more governed by
regulation than they are

577
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,500
technology.
No matter what.

578
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:45,100
Goldman Sachs has about them
being a tech company, can't do

579
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:47,100
lots of things and you can't
offer lots of products and you

580
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:49,500
know, you can't move quickly
because you have to deal with

581
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:54,000
the Regulatory and compliance
aspects of it and like I always

582
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,500
use the example.
He's a last night when we

583
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,000
launched a Future Finance, we
were able to launch with a

584
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,700
provisional license with the To
lend money.

585
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:05,000
Like in theory, you should never
been allowed to just have a

586
00:32:05,008 --> 00:32:09,000
provisional license to lend
money like we process through

587
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,100
our we had about like 5,000
customers or something that we'd

588
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:14,200
given loans to without being
fully licensed.

589
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400
You know, it's just, there's
something not right about that.

590
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,000
Well, it allowed us to get up
and running and obviously it

591
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,500
kept a cast fairly low and to do
that at the same time, you're

592
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,700
thinking those 5,000 people who
we lent money to like, you know,

593
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:27,800
it's just a material risk to the
business.

594
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,300
And we were only kind of
lightly.

595
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,500
Ernst.
Yeah.

596
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:34,700
Yeah, well I mean but was that
small amounts?

597
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:41,300
I mean of 10 up to kind of a Max
of 15 cave alone so like a big

598
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:45,000
enough but even that even in
that respect you know did the

599
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,600
Contain what is it to Contagion
or whatever?

600
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,500
Effect, you know if anything
went bad with us, was it likely

601
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:53,900
to impact anybody else?
Not necessarily.

602
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:56,400
Maybe that maybe the
institutional lender gave us the

603
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,500
money.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

604
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,100
But it's this sort of stuff and
this is like it comes into kind

605
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,300
of the next article.
I'd mentioned as well and even

606
00:33:04,300 --> 00:33:07,800
what you're saying, you know,
infrastructure players like you

607
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,300
know, they're really difficult
kind of category to regulate or

608
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:14,400
to account for where they're
providing a technology solution

609
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,100
that enables lots of different
products.

610
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,400
But the same time they have a
material impact on the market.

611
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:22,900
Over.
They do they do.

612
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:25,400
And we start out with wire card
and that's obviously why Baffin

613
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,200
are taken the view.
That know we're going to like

614
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,500
thump down on what you do here
now because the more you do it,

615
00:33:30,508 --> 00:33:33,700
the more you scale, the more
risk you are and I get it

616
00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:38,300
because In fairness at least two
taken a stand on it because iíve

617
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:42,200
always use Solaris as a, you
know, as an example is a case

618
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,100
study in the pat fintech night
that I do the full occulting as

619
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:51,200
I call it right and that you
know, talking about them as a

620
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,900
Say, you know, as a hybrid
player is that they have their

621
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:58,600
technology but at that they
offer out as an on a banking as

622
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,400
a service basis, but they also
have the regulatory license that

623
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,500
they offer out.
And that just creates a very,

624
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:07,800
very not impossible, but a very
challenging business models are

625
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,900
wrong because you've got your,
you're getting it from all

626
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:14,699
sides, basically.
So I get this and I see Germany,

627
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:17,300
you know, to see Baffin what
they're up to recently.

628
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:21,199
And I think, you know, it with
comparing this to the regime.

629
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,600
Him again in the US where FTX
was allowed to operate under a

630
00:34:25,607 --> 00:34:28,800
money transmitter license, which
is akin to what you use for,

631
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:34,100
check cashing businesses.
It's like okay, ya know, when

632
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:37,500
you have a good strong
regulatory regime in place, the

633
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:40,300
good positive things that it
brings to your business in terms

634
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:43,600
of control and Frameworks and
governance organization.

635
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,000
They're good things, right.
They're expensive.

636
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:51,199
But they're the proper way to
run a business, you know, not

637
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:53,500
With the way FDX.
We're doing that at on error,

638
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,500
under a money transmitter
license.

639
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,800
Right?
So the US has to start getting a

640
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,800
framework in place.
I I keep talking about how far

641
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,300
ahead Europe is with all this
stuff.

642
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:06,900
Yeah.
And so, did the next article and

643
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:08,800
actually there, but this was no
over credit.

644
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,600
Only wanted to flag this one,
cuz we spoke about them

645
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,200
recently.
Nova credit, do I suppose pass

646
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,000
porting of credit scores, you
know, they're one of the few

647
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,600
credit reference agency type
operations that, you know,

648
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,000
allows You two are have created
a kind of cross-border credit

649
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
score that allows you to bring
your credit score with you into

650
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,900
a new market.
I think they're, I think they're

651
00:35:29,900 --> 00:35:34,300
set up in about 20 different
markets and as I've kind of lost

652
00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:37,300
the end of last month, they've
just got approval to be the UK's

653
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:38,700
first cross-border kind of
credit.

654
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:41,700
Reference provider.
So like this is huge from a

655
00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:46,000
customer and a consumer point of
view because you know what, I'm

656
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,700
trying to find the stats here.
I had them Thursday of over 2

657
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:51,700
billion, credit profiles, but
more than that, there's a A huge

658
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,100
number of kind of immigrants in
the UK.

659
00:35:54,100 --> 00:35:58,200
So let's see the 2021 census had
10 million people in the UK were

660
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,300
born overseas and 40% to move to
the UK in the last decade.

661
00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:03,800
So, the big issue, this is
addressing, is that people move

662
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,800
to the UK, like you, for
example, either of us could move

663
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,300
to the UK tomorrow for work.
And we can't bring our, we

664
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:10,000
couldn't previously.
Bring our credit history with

665
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,800
us, we'd be starting off with
nothing, you know?

666
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:15,500
And so this is huge for the
industry and like that being the

667
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:18,800
first, you know, this is they
have their Nova passport, which

668
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,200
pulls your kind of established
Credit Data in different.

669
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:24,200
Trees and translated into an
equivalent score in a new

670
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,400
market, which allows you
obviously to apply for loans and

671
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:31,000
financial services products in
New Market, which is brilliant.

672
00:36:31,100 --> 00:36:33,400
And getting that kind of
regulatory approval, opens a,

673
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,000
huge Market opportunity for
them.

674
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,900
They're in the UK, they could
have the other thing we'd

675
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:39,800
mention when we talked about
this before me, obviously we

676
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,500
just address that there is, you
know how structurally important

677
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:45,800
does.
This company then become to the

678
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,400
market.
It's the only company out there

679
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,000
offering this kind of solution
at the moment because even the

680
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,600
big name players I can, Equifax
TransUnion Experian, they don't

681
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,300
they despite being in multiple
markets, they don't necessarily

682
00:36:56,300 --> 00:37:00,100
provide this service.
So, Nova credit is now the only

683
00:37:00,100 --> 00:37:04,000
one who potentially can help
unlock credit for, you know,

684
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,600
millions of people are in the
world in different countries.

685
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:11,000
The FCA authorization they got
is that as a credit bureau is at

686
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,300
an FCA authorization type?
Yeah, it must be because it's

687
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,100
let's see.
It says, if it's got there got

688
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:21,200
the permissions to provide
credit references in the UK.

689
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:23,900
Okay, so yeah.
So it allows them to operate as

690
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,300
a credit reference agency
similar to an echo effect, so

691
00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:29,600
transient okay, yeah.
And I mean it this is it this is

692
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,100
you know getting truly Global
with all this stuff because it's

693
00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:38,800
not just you know people moving
around its people who are say

694
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,100
living in you know Backwater
France, right?

695
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:46,700
That are that have a bank
account that are employed by

696
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:50,200
someone in Ireland, for example,
right?

697
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:55,400
And being able to have financial
services and and just following

698
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,700
people wherever they go, you
know?

699
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:02,000
And and interesting part of this
for me is seeing that, you know,

700
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,900
the proportion of consumer
spending right now that would

701
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:11,100
point to somebody's credit
history, credit risk, the

702
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,100
proportion of that that's on a
blockchain right now is Tiny,

703
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,300
you know, compared to, you know,
that in traditional banking

704
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:19,400
institutions.
But as that continues to grow,

705
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:23,200
that information is far more
available and far more public.

706
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,300
If you have somebody's address,
you can see all of their

707
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:30,600
history, everything.
So it's going to be I you know

708
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,500
who's going to start to move
first, and it's really saying

709
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:37,100
that, well, you've got Gemini,
you've got coinbase, you've got

710
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:41,300
others, that are crypto players,
that issue credit cards and that

711
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:44,600
where that spending is then
linked back to your crypto

712
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,400
account.
So it's not exactly on a

713
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,900
blockchain, but it is the first
step in that direction.

714
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:52,800
And you know, there are others
out there that I'm talking to

715
00:38:52,808 --> 00:38:56,400
that are building that where you
can link a credit card directly

716
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,700
back to a And just spend
directly on their on chain,

717
00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:04,300
which is just nuts, but that,
that's what's happening.

718
00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:07,900
So I'd love to see Nova credit,
you know, their need for a

719
00:39:07,908 --> 00:39:10,000
blockchain strategy right now
and probably over the next two

720
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,100
to three years is incredibly
minimal.

721
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,900
You know, there's plenty of leg
room for them to grow in this

722
00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:17,300
industry, especially with that
10 million they got from HSBC.

723
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,000
Last year, I was but just about
to bring it up weights going,

724
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,200
you know, because the question
now are like, you could argue

725
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,400
that this really benefits HSBC
because they're an investor In a

726
00:39:28,408 --> 00:39:31,800
company that now provides credit
references in the market where

727
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,300
he just be, is his main Marcus
or like one with main markets,

728
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,900
maybe they'll.
So, you know, does that create

729
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:40,200
an unfair Advantage?
Would the u.s.

730
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,300
Department of Justice?
Look at this differently as it

731
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:46,100
has a due to Visa implant
because now with becoming like I

732
00:39:46,107 --> 00:39:49,200
said, strategically important in
markets and for consumers.

733
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,600
So on one hand it's excellent
like it's great for the market

734
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,500
and it meets a real lead.
But is it to important?

735
00:39:56,500 --> 00:40:02,300
Now to allow a bank for example,
Bill to investors and my thing,

736
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:06,000
you know what, how far could
they go with this because they

737
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,500
have all this data, right?
And could they use that to offer

738
00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:13,300
credit cards?
But surely.

739
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:14,900
Yeah, exactly.
Surely, they could go into

740
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:19,000
lending themselves because they,
I have my credit passport with

741
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,700
no credit.
Why wouldn't I allowed him to

742
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:22,000
provide me alone?
They already have all my

743
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,300
details.
I'd probably get a better,

744
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:24,400
right?
Yeah.

745
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:27,500
Now it's you can read into these
things and start to see the

746
00:40:27,500 --> 00:40:30,600
future.
ER, right, absolutely, you can.

747
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,100
And speaking of credit cards,
revolute revolutes, favorite

748
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,300
customer base, we are better
than that, aren't we?

749
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,200
And you think more and more
about that there's what?

750
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,900
There's two million revolute
account holders.

751
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:45,500
In Ireland, out of a population
of five million that is

752
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:48,500
significant.
And someone was saying to me,

753
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:51,300
well, what's going to happen in
Ireland with, you know, now it's

754
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:54,700
just Bank of Ireland, aib and
Permanent TSB, left is a bag.

755
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:57,900
So I said, revolute, revolute
have the most customers.

756
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:03,900
It hardly and they are a bank,
you know, they have their

757
00:41:03,900 --> 00:41:08,000
banking license in Lithuania.
They're now starting to convert

758
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,300
your eye bands over from
Lithuania and I bands to Irish I

759
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:16,900
bands so that you can, you know,
there are a number of payment

760
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,300
providers and payment receivers
that won't do anything in

761
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:23,700
Ireland unless it's an Irish
iban, so that's happening.

762
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,000
Did you know quite OK later
solutions?

763
00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:30,000
They do buy now pay later.
You do loans basic loans, and

764
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,600
now, credit cards, they're
issuing, and they're starting to

765
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,100
do that.
And all of this is a trojan

766
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:37,000
horse for getting your banking
data from other banks.

767
00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:41,400
In order to do be npl, you need
to hook up to their door.

768
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:46,400
Open banking feeds that take
your bank account data, your

769
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,100
main bank account data and
revolutions, all that and comes

770
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:52,300
up with a credit amount that
they would give you.

771
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:55,800
And whether that is a one-off
loan, whether that is buy, now

772
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,600
pay later or a credit card.
That's They're looking at.

773
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,600
So there's really, it's really
smart.

774
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,400
It's a really smart play.
Hmm, they got their tentacles

775
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,700
out and you know it's a great
place to do it here in Ireland.

776
00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:09,400
And you know, been saying that
for years is that because of the

777
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,000
the different economic
circumstances of demographics,

778
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,300
all over in are all over our
than a very concentrated, you

779
00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:21,100
know, portfolio people that it's
it's relatively it's very

780
00:42:21,100 --> 00:42:24,100
logical and sensible and
pragmatic to do this type of

781
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:26,100
Market testing here because you
got a huge audience.

782
00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:30,400
Yep.
So, That guy will be first in

783
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,800
the queue to get a revolute
credit card though no no nor

784
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,600
will I boss at the same time you
could see it very easily being

785
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,400
kind of adopted because you know
even they have their one-off

786
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,400
disposable card.
If you want to use that to make

787
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,600
you to make an online
transaction and just use a

788
00:42:43,607 --> 00:42:48,000
one-off can a number so you can
see these, you know, this being

789
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,300
kind of rolled out or people
applying for this for a period

790
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:53,300
of time if you're going on
holiday for a period or

791
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:55,200
something like that.
You know, you might say okay

792
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,700
well I'll apply and get the
credit card because it'll have a

793
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,800
Defined kind of time period on
it.

794
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,300
Yep, the things like that again.
You're not going to use it as

795
00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:06,900
your main bank bought, you will
use it in specific

796
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:09,100
circumstances, and then if that
goes, well, you'll probably look

797
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:10,900
to use it again more often, and
etc.

798
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:13,200
Etc.
So like you said, trojan horse

799
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:14,600
is the ideal way to kind of
think about it.

800
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,900
In terms of rolling out more
product building up, very

801
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:19,300
monetizing that user base even
more.

802
00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:21,800
But in a kind of slow, quiet can
away.

803
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:25,800
Yep, yep.
And you know my I was talking to

804
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,200
my wife about this and I'm just
like so Sick of Bank of Ireland.

805
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,800
You know, it's the only app
where you don't get the dang,

806
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,400
when money gets deposited, and
when you're running a business

807
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,300
you it.
Having that Ding is incredibly

808
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:40,200
helpful.
So that's why don't you just

809
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,800
move?
I said, where am I going to

810
00:43:41,808 --> 00:43:43,900
move?
She's lucky, that's a problem.

811
00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:45,700
I said I'm not moving a
revolute.

812
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,300
I'm not putting my business
accounting.

813
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:50,200
Two revolute, two reasons, one.
I've had problems with them.

814
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,900
Before to, you know, hack
ability of of revolute, right.

815
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:57,900
That it hasn't happened yet.
Knock on wood but just Just

816
00:43:57,908 --> 00:44:01,200
knowing that shortcomings of
their operating model like just

817
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,000
I don't.
Yeah.

818
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,800
So I'm not going there but
that's the only other option for

819
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,200
an Irish, you know, registered
business.

820
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,800
So not gonna do it last one.
Yeah, that's why I stopped

821
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,100
buying workplace savings fintech
cushion, who for a hundred and

822
00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:20,900
seventy four million dollars.
So this is Reuters, but V Alexa:

823
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:23,100
from the fintech blueprint.
I picked this up out of his note

824
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:24,700
newsletter on the 13th of
February.

825
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:27,600
So it was just a, shout out to
bow.

826
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:31,700
Do you know from RBS which are
vs is not West, isn't it?

827
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:38,300
Yes, yes, oh yes, RBS isn't is
not West when that they launched

828
00:44:38,300 --> 00:44:41,100
bow, which was the short-lived
Neo bank.

829
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:45,000
And just seeing this gorilla in
the bunny context again and just

830
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,900
seeing if how long cushion will
last with in NatWest in that

831
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:53,100
cushion, was a pretty good app
for helping people to make sense

832
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:55,600
of their pensions and save and
savings and direct that

833
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,500
appropriately.
So we'll see what happens there.

834
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:01,100
But you know it could just be,
you know, if they do it right?

835
00:45:01,100 --> 00:45:04,000
It will be a nice top of the
funnel catchment area, for their

836
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,200
wealth management business and
perhaps cross-sell until until

837
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,000
what I think this fits in more
broadly taken on my view on the

838
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,600
opportunity, be getting into
large corporates.

839
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,000
Yeah.
And being able to provide so you

840
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,100
see it a lot with payroll
companies in the US you brought

841
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:23,500
out kind of expense platforms
and stuff and even like the

842
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:25,900
breaks and things where there
are now kind of trying to

843
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:29,400
reverse themselves in Because
they're in there, providing one

844
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,400
solution to a business to bring
in more kind of products that

845
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,400
fit for the employees of those
companies.

846
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,500
Yeah, you know, because they're
already already providing,

847
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:40,700
especially those ones providing
kind of early Payment Solutions

848
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,600
on your payroll like your again
you're starting in you're

849
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,900
getting access to data around
people's payments, you know, you

850
00:45:45,900 --> 00:45:48,300
know when they're getting paid
and you access to that, then

851
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:50,600
you're providing another
Financial Services product, but

852
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,000
you're not going, wrote it as a
bank almost So, listen REO.

853
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,400
They're, you know, they're
taking a company that does

854
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,300
workplace savings, and then
they're trying to roll out more

855
00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:02,600
solutions, more financial
services products for the

856
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,100
employees of those were places.
There you go.

857
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:09,000
You always want to get those
bigger corporate customers to

858
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,600
start moving up, the moving up
the chain.

859
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,800
Yeah, so it's, it's an, it was
an interesting play.

860
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,900
Like, to me, it doesn't matter
if cushion kind of disappears,

861
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:20,400
it's if they keep the business
and keep the customers, and then

862
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,900
able to further kind of monetize
or cross, sell to those

863
00:46:22,900 --> 00:46:25,900
customers.
Oh yeah, every MMA analysis I

864
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:30,600
ever did way back in the day was
always, is this a cost deal or

865
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,300
is this a revenue deal and, you
know, can you cut cost out of

866
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:36,600
this business or can you use it
to expand your own revenue and

867
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,700
expand the revenue of what
you're acquiring even faster

868
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:41,000
because of that Synergy between
the so it looks like you're so

869
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,500
it lets it looked.
I could be an interesting one,

870
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:48,100
it makes a lot more sense and
ball anyway it does God Rest in

871
00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:53,700
Peace about so let's leave it
there there.

872
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:56,200
Our pleasure.
As always this week we'll be

873
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,300
back next week and I've got two
guests lined up already.

874
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:02,100
Having told you about it yet but
we've got without Liang.

875
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:07,100
Whoo-hoo is a techstars mentor
and also an investor at a deep

876
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:09,400
thinker on web three teed up for
next week.

877
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,100
So it's going to be a phenomenal
chat with him.

878
00:47:11,100 --> 00:47:14,600
So looking forward to that, burn
it you need speed.

879
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,200
All right.
Thanks about adios.

880
00:47:20,700 --> 00:47:22,600
That does it for this week
folks, you can learn more about

881
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,500
the stories we covered in the
show, notes on our website

882
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:26,500
money, never sleeps.
That IE, if you like what you

883
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:29,500
heard, please leave us a rating,
and, or review on Apple podcast

884
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,100
or Spotify.
Is it helps others find the

885
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:32,900
show?
Thanks to Kona, Brophy from

886
00:47:32,900 --> 00:47:35,800
created, for mixing and editing.
This episode Conan is an

887
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,800
excellent medium and to get in
touch with when you're thinking

888
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,100
about launching your own
podcast.

889
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,900
As for me, I'm an early stage,
startup investor focused on

890
00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:44,500
where fintech meets crypto and
crypto meets web three and I'd

891
00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:46,600
lie detector as well.
Three accelerator there are

892
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,500
plenty of links in the show
notes on money never sleeps that

893
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:49,700
IE on how to get in touch with
us.

894
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:53,200
So don't hesitate to reach out
finally till next time.

895
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:51,000
Thanks for listening.
See you So don't hesitate to

896
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,200
reach out finally till next
time.

897
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,500
Thanks for listening.
See you