215: I Left My Wallet | Jesse Phillips and TrustWare

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend and
this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs and it crossover

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of startups and apprised Finance
technology and Life.

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As we know it before we dive
into this week's episode of

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money, never sleeps.
Just a quick heads-up that the

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eith Dublin hackathon. 2023 is
just ahead of us in Dublin.

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On May 26 to the 28th at dog.
Patch labs and Dublin.

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Youth Dublin's the first web
three focused hackathon

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conducted on the island of
Ireland.

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And the idea is to create a
space for the community to build

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and attract talent to the web
three ecosystem.

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Check out the details on eith
Dublin, dot IO.

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So on the show this week we've
got Jesse Phillips, co-founder

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and CEO of trust where one of
the twelve founding teams

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forming the techstars, web three
accelerator class of 2020.

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Three trust, where is a secure
recoverable non-custodial,

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crypto Vault that connects users
in a social network for sharing

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value Jesse's a seasoned
entrepreneur, a deep thinker in

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the blockchain space was on a
mission to revolutionize.

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The way we handle digital assets
and payments with a deep

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understanding of decentralized
Technologies and their potential

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to empower individuals and
communities.

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Jesse is dedicated to creating
secure and Democratic solutions

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for the future of Finance,
Jesse.

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And I dig into what got him into
crypto in the first place.

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The trust where Vision he formed
with co-founder Jonathan Fraser,

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adjusting some of the crypto
curveballs at world is throwing

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a trust where and how life
experiences are informing.

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The Building and scaling across.
We're all right here on money.

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Never sleeps.
Before we dig into trust where

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you've had a really, really
interesting path to get here.

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And I kind of wanted to dig into
that a bit first to see how you

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got to this point how you got
into crypto and how you and

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Jonathan Frazier got together to
build trust where?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Absolutely.
Definitely an interesting path.

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Most people that I have met are
kind of in one Camp, right?

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You're either kind of in the
Bitcoin camp.

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Or the, you know, the other side
right?

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Web 3D file that.
Yeah, so kind of an interesting

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kind of switch for me.
But let's go kind of way back in

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time.
I've always been building

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companies from day one, when I
learned and this is actually

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kind of an interesting story.
I think I was in fifth grade and

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we had a ticket system.
My teacher would give you

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tickets for good behavior and
you could use those tickets to

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get out of trouble.
So like let's say you didn't

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have your homework, one day you
could use a ticket for or that

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or what a lot of the kids like
to do was they would trade their

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tickets in for a Snickers bar
and I wasn't the best student in

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the world.
But I realized that they were

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the little Snickers bar.
They were not king size, you

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know?
The fun stuff.

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Right.
Right.

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And so the kind of Genius part
of and kind of the the

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Revolutionary or I don't know.
How do you put this?

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The rebel not revolutionary the
rebel part of me.

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Basically goes well that's cool.
Like I'll spend 350 and go buy

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an entire bag of these and have
Many tickets as I need ya.

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And so anytime I couldn't hand
in my homework, I would just

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kind of matched.
We have these tickets and

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realize that you could, you
know, you could have kind of

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another economy running running
on in the running around in the

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back end, or running alongside
of this and my teacher found out

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and props to her mrs.
DiNapoli she obviously scolded

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me a little bit but she didn't
kill the entrepreneurial like

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Vision.
She didn't just say like this is

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completely against the rules.
I think to her ER, it was a

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little bit kind of, I don't
know, it was, it was ingenious.

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I think in a way and, and a sign
of things to come.

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Yeah.
And so she kind of supported it

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and she said, no, you can't do
this but she kind of supported

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it.
And from then on, I was

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fascinated with kind of the
Arbitrage and the little things

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I could do selling candy at swim
meets, all of these different

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things.
And I lived, or I grew up

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outside of Boston in a kind of a
little suburb about 25 30

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minutes away from from the city
and was Lucky enough to have an

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unbelievable dump as well.
Most people probably like one.

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Yeah, but as a little kid, I'd
go there and pick up electronics

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and for most of the time it was
all about taking them apart.

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Kind of like reverse Legos and
then, eventually started

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building them back up and could
actually build computers, and

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use that to kind of power my
Fascination and interest with

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music.
But, you know, that was kind of

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the first foray for me, into
having computers.

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Actually work for people and
what could be done alongside

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what you were doing as, you
know, in your productive life.

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And so kind of coming out of
college, I studied

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Communications by the way, but I
wrote my thesis in college on

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emerging Technologies and kind
of the social sciences side of

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how like at what point do people
become uncomfortable with

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technology?
Which was definitely something

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to come, right?
Like, yeah, looking, hey, I I

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read that.
I had a look on your.

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It's still on your LinkedIn
profile.

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I keep it there for a reason
because I think it's a really

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interesting thing and you know,
for people to be able to dive

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into what the kind of pre
blockchain side of me was like

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because it was all I think
building up to this, right?

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Yeah, and you know what I did, I
actually downloaded it, took it

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off of the viewer downloaded it
so that I could do the ctrl-f

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search right for crypto or
blockchain and didn't see either

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one of those words in there.
So as you're saying it was the

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pre blockchain Jesse E Phillips.
Yes it was.

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And one of the things that
really struck me was the

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findings and really it was the
more technology you consume, the

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more comfortable you are with it
to come.

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So kind of at that point
understanding just how digitally

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native.
I was and a lot of my peers were

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and understanding that you know,
things are to come and we're

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just kind of going to have to
deal with them but even besides

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the thesis, one of the really
interesting things on there.

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Is I think it's the dedication
page and it just Steve Jobs

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quote and it's, you know, I'll
paraphrase it.

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But it's basically, once you
understand that the world is

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built by people that are no
smarter than you like the edges

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break apart.
You can kind of do amazing

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things and that's kind of been
governing me ever since.

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But coming out of school, I was
very broke, very obsessed with

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Bitcoin.
One of my college friends,

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basically got me into it after
reading part of my thesis, he

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said I think You'd like this and
just spending ungodly amounts of

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time researching blockchain and
at the time I was dating someone

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in Buffalo, New York and my
family and I that summer went to

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Iceland and I started looking at
Power, really seriously?

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Because I see all this
geothermal power and I'm like

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wow the little I know about
blockchain Bitcoin, this would

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be an awesome place to start a
mine, right?

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Going back to that thing.
Hey can we have computers work

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for us and Buffalo New York was
the same way right hydroelectric

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from Niagara a lot of natural
gas.

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It was just kind of this
combination of all these things

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hitting me and shortly.
You know, shortly after I would

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say, working for a year in a,
it's kind of like a startup

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accelerator.
They had office space and, and

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we would evaluate startups
coming in.

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We started Harpy a mining which
was really the first four inch

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that and my co-founder.
And I Pedro, and I, we built, I

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think one of the first models
for data driven analytics in

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proof-of-work.
Work.

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And that was really
revolutionary for the time at

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that point mining was more of an
art than a science.

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And we said, I we think there's
something to this looking at

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asset price valuation, and the
network difficulty, and the

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relationships between these
things between the chip level

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design, you know, the nanometer
process has the electrical

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consumption.
All of these things, we thought

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if we can kind of crack the
code, then we can predict, you

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know how much money we can make.
And really this was out of

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necessity because Either of us
had enough money to actually go

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out and kind of build the mind
that we wanted to.

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And, you know, and all I was
really trying to do was have

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something running off in the
background that would allow me

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not to, you know, sling drinks
for a living and move to

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Buffalo, which sounds crazy
right now.

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But you know, young me, wanted
that and and that was the

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beginning of everything right
sitting in a, in a cubicle in

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Newton Massachusetts, you know,
just Looking at Bitcoin for

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hours on end.
I mean I slept under that desk

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some nights, it was an obsession
at that point and it never

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really stopped.
Wow wow and you did that.

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That was Harvey a mining.
You did that for a few years,

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didn't you?
Yeah we ran it actually up until

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2019 and a lot of the major
mining providers now or I guess,

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but major data centers, now run
some version of it.

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Whether it was based on
Something that we did or just

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you know all of us kind of
coming to the same conclusions.

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This really did become kind of
standard for people to look at

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it in this way and Mining at
that point was really throw a

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bunch of computers into a
warehouse and try to figure out

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the dust situation.
It was not, you know, Riot or

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Marathon or you know some of
these bigger providers where

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they've got a CFO a CTO?
I mean, this was the true cowboy

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era of that time.
And so, you know that was it

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went on for a while and we
started kind of getting into

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actually trying to place people
all around the world which was

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exciting because it really
coincided with this idea that

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still kind of keeps me fired up,
although kind of moved on from

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this, which is that Bitcoin is
the ultimate economic battery,

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right?
You're storing.

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The you are converting electrons
into hard money, and if we could

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just use renewable energy to do
that, well, we could pay

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Renewables back faster and that
The thesis.

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So we started trying to place
people all around the world.

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I mean, I don't talk about this
a lot, but interspersed in here

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is many attempts at buying power
plants and standing up Minds as

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well.
But, you know, that was, yeah,

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it was another chapter in that
history and then kind of moved

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on from that to support those
people in my next, the next

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chapter so to speak, right?
And that was by Nancy, moved on

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to finance next to you.
Yeah.

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What a wild ride that was we had
Actually, speaking of the power

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plant, this was kind of covid
time and we were going out to

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buy a power plant again in
Upstate New York with the idea

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of converting it all into into
Mining and then there is a nice

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little hundred acres in the back
where I wanted to put the solar

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panels.
But I eventually kind of ran out

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of money doing that really kind
of zeroed myself out.

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I would say kind of hit rock
bottom in that period between

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essentially ending harpeia and
this You know, coming out of

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2018.
This was one of my favorite

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times to work in crypto, right?
Because the tourists are gone.

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But it was also a very
challenging time to try to make

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a living in it.
And, and finance, essentially

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called, as I kind of Hit the,
the end of my bank account, so

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to speak.
And I said, okay, let's do it.

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So, your lifelong.
Yeah, and I'm very thankful for

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that at the time it was probably
a very different organization

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than it is now but I went over
there to support the BD efforts

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for the pool.
Pool for the mining pool.

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And we did, we did North
America, South America, a little

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bit of EU and I managed I think
a pipeline of about 75 active

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clients to this day, I have PTSD
over telegram because it was

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every time zone you can imagine
people all over the world, but

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what a fascinating time to
really be at the heart of Mining

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and see it kind of grow into an
actual industry.

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I mean, this is when everyone
was taking out.

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You know, everyone was figuring
out how to turn their companies

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into into essentially Fiat,
Arbitrage machines into into

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Bitcoin.
And just to be at the center of

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that was, was wild.
Got to see so many cool minds

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and really get deep.
Yeah, yeah, no.

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And seeing that all that stuff
from the inside is just so

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incredibly important and
informed I'm sure what came

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next, obviously before you
jumped to launch trust, where

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with Jonathan Frazier, there was
the stop off a train.

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The Middle East crypto Exchange
in between all that.

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Yeah, yeah, it was a great
opportunity, effectively.

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I was kind of done with the
Beady side of things.

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I was really looking for a way
to take a lot of the learnings

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that I had had at finance and
convert them into kind of

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something that was more
meaningful on the product

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development side.
And really, this is also kind

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of, I think, you know, I
wouldn't say that I have many

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superpowers but I think I'm
pretty good.

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At seeing the future and I think
that's good, super power.

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Yeah, I think that's why though.
Jonathan is such a great

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co-founder as well as because
you know, together we can see

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the future, but we can also
focus on what's right in front

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of us to get there.
But we'll go into that in a

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minute right now.
Basically, at this point, I was

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seeing the consolidation of
Mining and kind of the dream of

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having your own, you know,
facility was slowly fading away.

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There was a point at which I
started advising for and working

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with the P'nay.
That's another story but really

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this is kind of the idea that in
order to continue working in the

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space that I truly love need to
make a change and broaden my

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Horizon.
So I went over to rain and ran

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the The Innovation Department
there.

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We built it up, we did.
I think we took it from five

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coins. 275 worked with The
Regulators there a lot of kind

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of product development for the
end user on the Rain app.

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It was a fantastic experience
and got me over too.

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By for the first time to really
see kind of what it was.

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Like never had, you know, never
been there.

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So cool and then at what point
did you and Jonathan get

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together?
I know that both you and

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Jonathan are Draper University
grads and that I think there was

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a reunions that place were you
would Jonathan got together want

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00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,800
to shed some light on that.
Absolutely.

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So Jonathan and I met at Draper
University reunions that summer,

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it was the summer after kind of
the the terror Luna, ordering

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the terror.
Luna explosion happens.

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And then I left rain.
And actually hiked the Camino

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first experience kind of in
Spain, with my little sister for

267
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part of it and came back and
there was this reunions

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happening.
And I had gone to Draper

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University at the tender age of
18 years old.

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It was, I had submitted a
business plan out of high school

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and somehow God.
And and so I hadn't been there

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in 10 years And I said, you know
what the heck, let's hop on a

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plane and went back to my old
haunts and San Mateo.

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And while we were there met
Jonathan and it was really, I

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mean, it was just a conversation
that started on a bus.

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We were coming back from
something called Survival Camp,

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where they, they try to teach
you all different types of

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00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,100
skills as an entrepreneur, but
one of them is kind of

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00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:33,100
resilience and survivals.
They bring you out to this place

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and there's a bunch of different
activities you can do out in the

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wilderness and for a day they
brought Us out there again

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during this reunions, we started
talking on the bus back and just

283
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:48,600
was fascinated with how his mind
worked and his experiences and

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00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:52,700
and more importantly than that.
Just the way of looking at the

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00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:58,900
world and his moral compass, I
think is probably the thing that

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00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:03,600
really stuck out to me and this
is really after having some bad

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00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,800
experiences a lot of good ones,
but some bad experiences in the

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00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,200
mining side with some People
that, you know, really eroded

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00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,900
trust, it was only about a two
hour bus ride, but by the end of

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00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:19,700
that, I was like, this is
someone that I could I could see

291
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:24,100
actually working with and not
just for a little while and were

292
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:26,900
you looking for that?
I wasn't at all.

293
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,800
In fact, the I was just that bus
ride that they're like click.

294
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,200
It was it was the person, right?
It's not so much like I'm not at

295
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,700
this point.
Looking to start.

296
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,800
Art another company, right?
It was almost like a Hiatus,

297
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,300
like trying to figure out where
I was going and even the idea

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00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:46,100
for trust.
We're at that very moment,

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00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:49,500
wasn't even a thing.
I had just met the person and I

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00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:53,100
was like, wow, I'm, I was
shocked to be real with you.

301
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,900
And it was later essentially, it
probably, I think it was the

302
00:16:56,900 --> 00:17:00,000
next day, or the day after I was
actually in a conversation with

303
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,800
someone and had the kind of the
original idea for this said,

304
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,599
excuse me, ran back in.
Put it on a whiteboard.

305
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:10,200
And Jonathan and I and a couple
of other people have been

306
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,900
hanging out, kind of this little
group within the reunions and we

307
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:17,400
just started talking about it
looked at it on the Whiteboard.

308
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:22,400
And and Jonathan ask me politely
like do you mind if I work on

309
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,800
this with you?
And I was just, I was like I

310
00:17:24,808 --> 00:17:26,900
don't know where this is going,
but absolutely, this would be

311
00:17:26,908 --> 00:17:31,300
great and the original idea was
basically how can we protect

312
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,300
people's wallets.
I had seen so much stuff out

313
00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,300
there.
I had been hacked in 2018, been

314
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:40,000
swapped all of my friends in the
mining space in the exchange

315
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,500
space that you have your head
over the curb or over the fence

316
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,000
line.
So to speak, You're, you know,

317
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,000
you're a main target and it's
Relentless, it's the only number

318
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,800
in crypto the continues going
up.

319
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,100
Even if the market goes down, is
the the value and the amount of

320
00:17:53,108 --> 00:17:56,400
hacks.
And the original idea was, can

321
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,100
we deposit something into a
wallet that wallet essentially

322
00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:02,600
prints out, a unlock token so to
speak where you can hold it

323
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,000
somewhere else and nothing can
be removed from that wallet, and

324
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,700
Jonathan being the absolute
genius.

325
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,500
It is basically over the next
kind of, I don't know, two

326
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:16,600
months completely, we reworked
this thing completely together

327
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,700
and and came up with the base,
you know, the base technology

328
00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:24,600
base of where we are right now.
It's amazing how fast this whole

329
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,000
Space moves, because like you're
talking about the summer roughly

330
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,900
of 2022.
You're talking about a couple of

331
00:18:30,908 --> 00:18:34,200
months before that with Tara
Luna and it I'm feel like I'm

332
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,600
saying Jessie that was just last
summer.

333
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:40,500
Yeah.
And how quickly that you can get

334
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:43,700
going here.
When you've got this kind of

335
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:48,200
this electric ball of momentum,
that when you get two people

336
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,500
together, that are kind of
thinking along the same lines,

337
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,200
but then bring something a
little bit different to the

338
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,000
table.
Each one of them, just how how

339
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600
strong this can be.
Yeah, yeah.

340
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,200
I mean it's the it's like, the
beauty of Entrepreneurship, is

341
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,200
creating something that actually
matters out of Thing.

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00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:13,000
There is no precedent in the
relationship between the people

343
00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:16,900
before that.
There's no precedent in what is

344
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,600
being created.
It's just the beauty of being

345
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,600
able to see your like, your
reflection in other person and

346
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,900
be like, we bring two different
things to the table.

347
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,400
It is, you know what it is, it's
a marriage but it's like a an

348
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,200
Innovative marriage where you
can create something and it is

349
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,100
your baby at the end of the day,
but you create something that

350
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,900
the world Eads out of kind of
out of thin air.

351
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:42,600
I think that's the magic but it
has to be with the right person.

352
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,100
And so when it clicks like I'm a
big believer in just humans over

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00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:49,100
everything even in the world of
AI and and all that.

354
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,000
So I know, I know, I know and
let's dig into trust where a bit

355
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,900
and tell us why the world needs
it right now.

356
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,900
And remember that my mom does
listen to this podcast.

357
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:03,800
Amazing.
Well, this is for your mom, too.

358
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,000
It's a for everyone.
Yeah, at the core of this, in

359
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,700
order for any technology to see
Mass adoption, it truly needs to

360
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,000
be able to impact people at the
level of their needs and needs

361
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,900
to meet people where they are,
my mom is a psychiatrist.

362
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,700
So there's a little bit of a
shout out to her, but Maslow's

363
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:22,700
hierarchy is something we look
at.

364
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,700
When we think about the purpose
of our company to is defines

365
00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:29,700
these needs as our coordinates
security is the next level up

366
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:33,100
belonging and kind of your
community esteem.

367
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:35,600
And self-actualization is the
top of this pyramid.

368
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:38,900
And we believe that current
blockchain Technologies are

369
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:42,200
primarily focused on serving the
needs of the top of the pyramid.

370
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:45,600
We can see this through stuff
like the self-actualization

371
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,300
creative products like digital
art Financial Freedom, through

372
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:52,200
digital Investments esteem,
which is like your status and

373
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,300
influencing your community, your
board ape.

374
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:57,700
Your token, your rare
collectible, we kind of look at

375
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,600
this and we want to get to the
bottom of the pyramid as fast as

376
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,000
possible.
And the real idea here is that

377
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,900
we need to address people's core
needs.

378
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:09,800
So That starts with the ability
to access real-world value

379
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:13,200
through services and this, you
know, can pay for food shelter,

380
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,800
daily needs safety and stability
which is knowing that digital

381
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,400
assets are safe and secure with
an ownership model, that users

382
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,000
can trust and belonging which is
recognizing that the blockchain

383
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,700
is social in nature and allows
user-friendly sign on Discovery

384
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,500
transactions with the username.
And that's really what we do.

385
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,600
At the end of the day, our
solution is to bring the

386
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,700
blockchain down to the All one
of this Maslow's hierarchy of

387
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:41,500
needs and equal where they are.
Right.

388
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,900
So yeah.
So really like, let's take a

389
00:21:45,908 --> 00:21:49,500
look at kind of how we think we
can do that at the ground level.

390
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:51,300
It's security.
This is where Jonathan I

391
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:53,600
started.
It's a Secure Vault based on

392
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,500
trusted security standards like
multisig and to fa we started

393
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:02,000
talking a trip University about
why like why on Earth is to fa

394
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,600
on blockchain not a thing.
And can we take multi Sagan and

395
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,000
Stead of it being, you know,
myself Pete and say your mom.

396
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,200
We just talked about her.
Yeah, holding Keys.

397
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,400
Why can't it just be one person
with different digital?

398
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:18,100
You know where the keys are in
different digital spaces?

399
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,100
Can we turn this thing on its
head and make people more secure

400
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,800
because it is the single private
key problem, right?

401
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,700
Your key is also your fault.
Any five-year-old can tell you

402
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,000
that if the key is sticking out
of the Vault, the vault is not

403
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,900
secure.
So why do we put up with that in

404
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,800
blockchain and more importantly,
why are the ground level user is

405
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,100
forced to get into that?
It when, you know, 15 20 bucks,

406
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,500
might be a drop in the Hat for
me or you but it might be

407
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,100
someone's food for the next
week.

408
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,200
We need to address that in order
to make blockchain accessible,

409
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,500
it needs to be social to and
that's why we've started down

410
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:52,300
the road of universal account
names.

411
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,400
These are aliases that give
users easy access and point to

412
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,900
any blockchain.
They're built for the

413
00:22:57,900 --> 00:23:01,600
interchain, the interchain web
three, and that's the, that's

414
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,000
the vision of the future.
We see as well and it's

415
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,200
connected this interchange.
Infrastructure connects to any

416
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,800
wallet on any blockchain and
allows for kind of dab

417
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,800
developers, which is kind of the
end part of this to connect to

418
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800
New Markets and users, and
access products and services

419
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,500
that impact their lives.
So, the real concept is, let's

420
00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:25,800
protect and let's connect to
people and let's end the

421
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,500
problems with ease of use, and
peace of mind.

422
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,900
So that everyone starting from
the ground part of that Maslow's

423
00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,700
hierarchy can access blockchain
and the Revolutionary power.

424
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,500
Decentralized technology can
bring.

425
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,600
So that's our, that's our
purpose.

426
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:43,800
Wow, that is deep.
And I really like that alignment

427
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,100
with Maslow's hierarchy of needs
their Jesse because when you get

428
00:23:47,100 --> 00:23:50,700
down to the core of humanity,
right, security.

429
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:53,700
Right there.
You know what security can be

430
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,300
expressed through a number of
different means and when you put

431
00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:01,100
it right down into what Simon
Taylor likes to call the,

432
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:05,600
financialization of everything
that, you know, does security.

433
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Does technology.
Does blockchain.

434
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:14,800
Does that allow any expression
of security in your life to be?

435
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,800
Well to be locked down, its cure
anything that needs to be

436
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,000
secured?
Can that be secured?

437
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,500
And and it's not just money,
right?

438
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:26,200
Like we focus so much on the
final, Angela side, but data is

439
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,800
a huge thing as well, you know,
this system that we're building

440
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:34,100
needs to work to effectively
create self sovereignty for

441
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:37,900
people everywhere and bees.
The enough to use that as we

442
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:42,000
said at my grandma or your mom
can can access it and can derive

443
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,400
value from it because we're not
going to get there by

444
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,400
speculation and by you know, the
top of the stack so to speak.

445
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,400
So, okay.
Well I you said, you know, you

446
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,500
can see the future which means
you have a time machine.

447
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,300
I'd like to think that I might
have one too, but in a little

448
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:03,300
humble one not, you may have
the, you know, the the doc

449
00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:07,100
Brown's DeLorean.
I've got the 84 for desk or two

450
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:08,600
tone with a missing sunroof,
right?

451
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,500
Which I actually did have one of
those way back in the day real.

452
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:15,700
Oh yeah, I'm a car person.
So we have a, we have a lot of

453
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:17,700
other conversations to have.
That's amazing.

454
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,300
So what does the world look like
when trust?

455
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:25,600
Where is an absolute necessity?
Because you and I can sit here

456
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,900
right now and talk about
Maslow's hierarchy of needs and

457
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:31,700
talk about security and I can
see the two of us, you know,

458
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:35,100
buzzing and vibing off this
because we know we think we know

459
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,400
what this is going to.
Like but for the rest of the

460
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,300
world why don't you share with
them what this world does look

461
00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:43,200
like we're trust.
Where Winter is where is an

462
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,300
absolute necessity.
It's my favorite thing to think

463
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,600
about every day.
So glad you asked going back to

464
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,700
this blockchain technology.
At least in theory We Believe

465
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,700
again democratizes access to a
more Equitable economy and we

466
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:02,700
believe in a world where trust
where is an absolute necessity

467
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,300
that it connects everyone in the
world to this economy.

468
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:08,100
Through what we call, a
universal social network for

469
00:26:08,100 --> 00:26:13,300
Value, kind of a big lofty goal.
But as we said, like, let's

470
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:15,400
start small.
We're starting with kind of this

471
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,900
secure social wallet concept.
That's an account name on one

472
00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:20,600
side and a Secure Vault on the
other.

473
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:25,200
The idea is that no longer.
Is it 0 XJ 59?

474
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,700
Something that is frankly scary
to most people and really hard

475
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:34,700
to manage for even natives.
It becomes a social Alias that

476
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:38,200
can follow you across.
Us and is interoperable across

477
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,200
all of web 3 in the
decentralized web.

478
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,200
So that's on one side of it and
that's for ease of use.

479
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,100
And then the other side of it is
that secure fault.

480
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:50,600
It's our proprietary multisig
design, but where does this all

481
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,400
go?
It moves into the social network

482
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,600
of value.
And eventually we think there's

483
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,100
going to be some sort of
interchain App Store that

484
00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:01,100
connects users and wallets to
what, what we are really looking

485
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:05,000
at is validated apps in a global
blockchain Community, we see

486
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,500
blockchain.
As inherently social, but there

487
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:11,900
are silos of users and value in
all of these different places BL

488
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:16,200
ones, l2s Etc.
And the idea with kind of this

489
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,300
interchain interoperable, name
system and the ability to kind

490
00:27:21,300 --> 00:27:25,700
of drop security onto Hot
wallets is that you can start

491
00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:27,400
bringing people from where they
are.

492
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,600
Whether it's on the web to
social layer, which we're also

493
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:35,500
looking to support and building
to support all the way up to I

494
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:37,600
have.
Meta masks were bringing them

495
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:43,100
all together and now a lot more
of the relationships that exist

496
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:45,200
in real life.
Going back to the kind of the

497
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:51,500
psychological side of providing
value can be expressed on on

498
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,000
trust where.
So the easiest one and the one

499
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:58,400
we started is the peer-to-peer.
I can send money or, you know,

500
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,400
or an NST or data to Pete in a
transaction.

501
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:03,700
That's great.
But let's make a social

502
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:05,600
difference.
Let's do donor.

503
00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:09,000
Recipient, it's the same tooling
on the back, end, the same

504
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,600
infrastructure that we've
started with on the security and

505
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,100
ease of use layer.
But now we've got, you know,

506
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,700
GoFundMe essentially, but
without anyone taking their cut.

507
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:23,100
So to speak in the middle which
is the vision that is expressed,

508
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,500
you know, buy Bitcoin from the
get-go right, without

509
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:27,900
third-party.
So to speak.

510
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,900
So building this infrastructure
layer allows that to happen.

511
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,800
It may allow you and your
friends all with, your your

512
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,700
trust where accounts to go.
And sit in a multisig vault

513
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:41,100
together, which can be a dowel,
which can be a community, which

514
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:43,600
can help one of your friends,
buy a house, without the need to

515
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,100
use the bank, or you have a
rental property together and all

516
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,100
of us, you know, all of us
together can get the real world

517
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:55,400
yield back or you've provided
water for a community that

518
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,800
didn't have it before the
solutions are all there.

519
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,000
Once you've built the bottom
layer, the infrastructure layer

520
00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,900
and we see a world where people
can Express the top of this

521
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,800
hierarchical stack, the Maslow's
hierarchy which is the self

522
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,000
actualization.
The expression, they can express

523
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,000
that and be creative with how
they build for this world while

524
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,000
also kind of connecting to the
user's underneath.

525
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:21,500
So that's like the Grand Vision,
right?

526
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:22,800
Yeah.
I love it.

527
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,300
How you pull that all together,
Jesse?

528
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:27,800
And you know we can we could sit
here from our point of view in

529
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,700
the year 2023.
And you know with what is in

530
00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:34,300
effect coming onto a year a year
old startup right but with a

531
00:29:34,308 --> 00:29:38,100
lifetime of vision and Variance
that is built to momentum to get

532
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:41,400
you here and say, all right,
this is a world where building

533
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,000
for you will get some curveballs
along the way, right?

534
00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:48,100
And you don't want to be Pedro,
cerrano, you remember who Pedro

535
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:51,600
cerrano is, no please.
He's from the movie

536
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,600
major-league.
He was the player that could not

537
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,800
hit curveballs and you prayed to
a god named Joe boo.

538
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Okay.
So you want to be able to hit

539
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,500
the curve balls, you want to be
able to anticipate the curve

540
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:05,000
balls that are going to come
your way.

541
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:11,900
You think you've identified some
of the stitches on the seam of

542
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:14,300
that curve ball coming towards
you already?

543
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:16,600
And what do you think that's
going to going to do?

544
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,900
When that ball starts dipping
ducking and Diving towards you?

545
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,600
Yeah, as it approaches home
plate?

546
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:26,300
Wow.
The the visual there is, it's

547
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:27,900
awesome.
I remember playing ball with my

548
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:30,900
dad, as a kid that we've had
taught.

549
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,200
We've had a lot of these
conversations to I think that's

550
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,000
the beauty of of the techstars.
You know, I love the techstars

551
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,300
cohort and of the program is
talking a lot about the curve

552
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:41,800
balls and having the insight to
them.

553
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,100
So, this is not just me, right?
This is kind of having a, almost

554
00:30:46,100 --> 00:30:49,400
a shotgunner a broader broader
approach to looking at it, but

555
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:52,900
at the core level, this is a
huge market and this social

556
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:55,400
network of value idea touches
everyone involved.

557
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,300
A lot of people are targeting
the space and that happens on

558
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,200
the web to side as well as the
web three side.

559
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,200
And more importantly, these are
people with a ton of resources

560
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:07,000
and the ability to quickly
quickly move into blockchain and

561
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,000
web three.
I like to look at this and

562
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,300
Jonathan and I spend a lot of
time thinking about a world

563
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:16,900
where we can co-opt our
competition because the purpose

564
00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,900
is more important or what we
like to say is the outcome is

565
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,100
more important than the income
but we deal with this really by

566
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:27,000
leveraging, our competitive
advantages as a start-up.

567
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,100
And that's right now at this
speed and flexibility, we are

568
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:34,500
really trying to be forward
facing and develop technology

569
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:36,200
for the Next Generation.
Blockchain.

570
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:39,900
So this is kind of going back to
that interchain idea, you know,

571
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,500
pulling data and liquidity from
different blockchains.

572
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,500
We think that we can kind of be
small Nimble and work in that

573
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:48,900
way.
We definitely have concerns and

574
00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,500
I know this is stuff.
We've talked about to about

575
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,600
coming regulation as a US
company.

576
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,000
You know, this is one of those
things where we're prepared to

577
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:03,000
deal with it and blockchain and
crypto web 3 is international.

578
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,100
You know, we've met so many
people especially from this

579
00:32:05,100 --> 00:32:07,300
cohort Art, that are building
all over the place.

580
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:12,000
So it's less of a concern on a
personal level, but we are

581
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,000
starting out in a way where we
don't necessarily need to move

582
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,300
money on and off chain.
And where it touches the current

583
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,300
Financial system.
I think, is the biggest question

584
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:25,800
for a lot of us working in this
space without proper regulation,

585
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,800
or at least an understanding of
where it's going.

586
00:32:27,808 --> 00:32:31,100
It's really hard to build for
the future and that also

587
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:37,000
involves see bdcs, we sit in a
very kind of Sovereign concept,

588
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:42,600
decentralized self custody role
in this space and there is a lot

589
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,900
of threat to that from the CBD
sees, if they're not implemented

590
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:51,200
correctly or if they overstretch
into users, you know, privacy

591
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,400
and and can be shut off.
I mean, there are, there's just,

592
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,200
there's many bad models.
That could be done versus these

593
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,000
Dynamic.
Public blockchains.

594
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,300
That we've seen actually work
and continue.

595
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,800
So you remind And our friends.
What CBD c-czar?

596
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,900
Yeah.
It's a central bank, digital

597
00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:12,800
currency.
And if you are at all privy to

598
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,800
the macro conditions right now,
won't go into it too deeply.

599
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,100
But some of those words might
scare you a little bit.

600
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,600
So that goes, I'm not a fan.
I'm not a fan of cbc's, I think

601
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,700
their reality.
I think central banks will

602
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:27,600
launch these.
I think they're going to just

603
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,000
going to be a bunch of car
crashes before they actually get

604
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:36,100
one running.
But yeah, it's it's Good

605
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:39,800
technology, but I think it's
just a conflicting usage of it,

606
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:46,100
that it that worries me a bit.
It's it's so hard to say without

607
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:51,000
seeing one that has worked, but
we on the flipside of this, we

608
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,300
see Bitcoin working.
We see many other block chains

609
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:56,800
that are, you know, that have
reached critical mass and

610
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,800
network effect working really
hard to see worlds where there

611
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,000
isn't some Carnage from one kind
of butting in or forcing

612
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,300
essentially the decentralized
sides out because it just is not

613
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,300
in line with the way that
governments exact power.

614
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:16,199
Currently, so we'll see how the
world shapes up in that way.

615
00:34:16,699 --> 00:34:19,699
I think the last thing is
farther out as Quantum, right?

616
00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:21,900
Really cool to look at all of
this stuff right now.

617
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,500
But you know this is a
conversation that Jonathan and I

618
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:29,100
have on the weekends so we don't
cut into our time but it's like

619
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:31,400
what does this look like?
When proof-of-work gets

620
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:33,400
potentially compromised by
Quantum?

621
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,699
We have some ideas on that too.
So I bet you do.

622
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:39,000
I bet you do, you know and it
was good to see in your in your

623
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,300
investor update other things,
you were thinking about for the

624
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:44,000
weekend.
Including contemplating a

625
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,000
potential pivot and before
anybody gets too worried, a

626
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,000
pivot is actually a kind of ice
cream as it turns out that you

627
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,199
can get in the Canary Islands
where you are right now.

628
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000
Is that correct?
Yes yes I thought that was a

629
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,200
really funny picture to send to
you guys for a take that was and

630
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,500
then in reading your thesis,
your in your senior or flipping

631
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:08,400
through your senior thesis, I
kind of saw some more of that

632
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,000
width at the beginning of it, at
the very least.

633
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,900
And, you know, so I I'm
definitely starting to

634
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:17,500
understand, Jesse Phillips just
thinking about, you know,

635
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,700
there's a lot of things that go
into being a start-up founder,

636
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:22,400
and there's one that I like to
call.

637
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,600
I've taken this from another
podcast, obviously, so the full

638
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,200
ratchet that I listened to, to
get kind of my masters in VC a

639
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,700
few years ago, if that's a thing
and that they refer to a concept

640
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:38,000
called the earned secret, right?
And that your life's experience

641
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,500
has he given you in a certain
direction and there's things

642
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,200
that you tend to know that
others, Generally, don't know or

643
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
that believe to be false.
So it's something that you

644
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,300
believe to be true that others
believe to be false there, any,

645
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:54,700
you can point to in your time so
far on this planet that you

646
00:35:54,707 --> 00:35:57,600
could call your earn secret.
Yeah, I am.

647
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,100
I am relatively Young on this
planet and so I don't claim to

648
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:04,200
be some sort of Yoda or
anything.

649
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:06,300
Okay.
I Look to Jonathan for that.

650
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,000
But I think the one thing that
I've well there's I'll go Two

651
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,500
sides of this, right?
I'm proof-of-work maximalist in

652
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:18,200
a defy body is what I like to
say.

653
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:21,400
So I really think that
computation is just as valuable

654
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:25,300
as a gold bar and I really nerd
out over the economics of it.

655
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,000
I also think that just is coming
over from the mining side that

656
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,000
that the way that Satoshi built
Bitcoin, it's the energy

657
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,100
consumption is is by Design, not
by accident and I think we can

658
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:40,100
fix a lot of the environmental
issues that we have right now in

659
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:42,600
terms of sustainability with
that, which is not a popular

660
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,900
thing.
I've been on many, many news,

661
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:49,300
channels and podcasts and try to
spin this into something that

662
00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:52,700
the rest of the world could hear
and it almost never works.

663
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,500
It's not the current agenda.
The other side of it is a lot

664
00:36:56,500 --> 00:37:00,400
more personal in terms of the
earth secret, which is, I think

665
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:08,200
that working working for purpose
is the only is the only way to

666
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,500
achieve something meaningful and
that's an urn for myself.

667
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,400
I spent many years with this
idea that you could effectively

668
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,700
create a nut, right?
Like you could go out there, do

669
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:25,400
what you're good at in the space
that you are, that you're, you

670
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,700
know, kind of in B.
It crypto blockchain, whatever

671
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,600
your else you're in, kind of
make your nut and then

672
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,300
transition into the thing that
that makes you tick or your

673
00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:41,200
higher calling.
And I think that that is, it's a

674
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,700
privileged way of thinking for
sure.

675
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,000
Sure because I was able to save
up enough and Jonathan as well

676
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,700
to, you know, make a start-up
happen which is by no means a

677
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:54,200
cheap thing to support yourself
and it's very difficult but I

678
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:57,100
find my internal energy and I
think we both share.

679
00:37:57,100 --> 00:38:01,400
This is driven by purpose and if
you're not aligned on that, I

680
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,500
don't think you can achieve your
highest calling.

681
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:07,300
And so that's that's kind of the
earn secret as long as you keep

682
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:09,900
in line with what is good and
true.

683
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,800
You win, but you win for the
world, right?

684
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,200
So you do and and it gives me
chills because it reminds me of

685
00:38:17,207 --> 00:38:19,500
a conversation.
I have my wife Jessie, where she

686
00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:22,700
said, what's going to happen
with one of these startups

687
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:24,100
actually hits it out of the
park.

688
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,600
What are you going to do?
I said I'm going to keep working

689
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,400
with Founders.
Yes that's it.

690
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,100
And I know that from your person
having not a mean we went

691
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:38,100
through the you know the
onboarding process but it's only

692
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:41,100
been a couple weeks but you are
the type of person that That I

693
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:44,900
could imagine you know, you make
a billion dollars and you are

694
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:47,700
still sitting here supported
people because this is what you

695
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,600
love and it is comes out.
It is absolutely what I love.

696
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,700
So know, that, that's so cool to
have.

697
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:58,900
You bring that out for sharing.
So so thank you, Jesse, listen.

698
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:01,500
We're at the point in time.
The podcast were we'd like to

699
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,900
ask this last question that we
asked everybody, what's the one

700
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:08,100
thing that people wouldn't
expect to know about Jesse

701
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:12,000
Phillips?
Oh man, I am, I can get in a

702
00:39:12,008 --> 00:39:16,500
suit and be incredibly
corporate, but for about 11

703
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:18,800
days, a year, you're going to
find me out.

704
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,600
Covered in dust at Burning, Man.
Usually, he's yeah.

705
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,000
And and that is, I think a
really important thing for

706
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,200
anyone that is looking at
creating products and, and or

707
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,900
just a vision for tomorrow,
there's so much there beyond the

708
00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:38,200
partying, and the music and the
and the drugs, if that's, you

709
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,100
know, if that's what you're into
cool.

710
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:43,800
But if you're looking for a
meaningful connection and you

711
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,100
know, people in a place where
immediacy matters and the

712
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:52,300
ability to go much deeper, And
the ability to look into

713
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:57,100
someone's eyes and say, you
know, I see you, not for what

714
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,200
facade, you put on, or what you,
what you have built around you,

715
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,800
or what you, what you make, you
know, in terms of a dollar

716
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,400
denomination or hopefully
satoshi's or yeah, I know, one

717
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,500
day, but but for who you are, I
think that's a place that almost

718
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:15,900
everyone should go at least for
a little while.

719
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,700
Yeah.
And seek out that part because

720
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:22,300
it is it.
It is a place where a lot of

721
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:26,300
these ideas start and or get
actualized into things that

722
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:30,100
change the world and truly a
treat to be fortunate enough to

723
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:31,800
experience it for multiple
times.

724
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,300
Now truly, and if you just get
that one thing, you get that one

725
00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:39,100
nugget of something that helps
you that you take away from that

726
00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:40,700
whole experience, could be a
little.

727
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,600
I don't know.
Just a frame of mind that you

728
00:40:44,607 --> 00:40:50,200
can put yourself into Upon
command upon demand that you

729
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,600
take with you back into your
life in a way from burning man,

730
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,600
I've never been there but I'd
love to go that you are the type

731
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,900
of person that that would get a
lot out of it.

732
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:01,100
And also the little bit of
discomfort I truly believe this

733
00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:05,500
discomfort I think is the first
shell to crack before you can.

734
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:08,800
You know, before you can really
achieve what you what you need

735
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,600
to, and that's an
entrepreneurship thing as well,

736
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,300
right?
Constantly being okay with a

737
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:15,500
little discomfort.
I hope you time know and and you

738
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:20,000
know a little word of advice.
Advice that how frequently I see

739
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,300
startups Meandering and
confusing motion with progress

740
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,700
when they fall into a comfort
zone and they go into their

741
00:41:28,700 --> 00:41:31,800
comfort zone of, okay?
I'm going to keep doing this

742
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:35,600
thing, that that makes it feel
like I'm doing something and

743
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,400
that I'm progressing, but I'm
actually just doing busy work,

744
00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:41,700
right?
So there's, you know, discomfort

745
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,800
is absolutely critical when it
my younger sister kind of just

746
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,700
observing her And that in the
90s she spent that time on the

747
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:53,000
east coast of the US, the late
90s after.

748
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:57,200
She spent some time over here in
Ireland, just kayaking and I on

749
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:02,400
the kind of pro kayak tour and
she found constant.

750
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,500
Change was her Comfort, right?
Yeah.

751
00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:10,800
And that not ever having that
one thing in one place to do

752
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,800
became comfortable for her and
that when she started settle

753
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,500
down that's where it was like,
oh jeez.

754
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:17,900
I gotta keep doing more.
Stuff, right?

755
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:21,600
So, that, that is an interesting
trait to have.

756
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,900
But you know, with trust where
we do want that sense of things

757
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,400
not changing that much, right?
No, I mean, at the ground level,

758
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:32,600
what we're trying to build is is
for forever, right?

759
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,200
We believe that the security
stuff that is coming over is

760
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,200
tried and true.
And it's you know what, the way

761
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,200
that we've implemented on the
technology side I think is

762
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,600
sustainable at least for at
least for the next.

763
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,500
Of major wave of bringing people
into this but a little bit back

764
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,100
to that point.
Like this is also you know,

765
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:56,700
sustainability comes in your
actual product and it comes in

766
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:00,800
your business and I'm rather
comfortable with a little bit of

767
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,600
chaos and yep.
And kind of the, you know, the

768
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,700
ups and the downs and the
discomfort and kind of the yin

769
00:43:06,700 --> 00:43:08,900
and yang.
You know, Jonathan is on the

770
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:12,000
other side and together, we
actually achieve the ability to

771
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,100
be focused which at this stage,
at least is probably the most

772
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:17,200
critical.
All thing.

773
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,000
So big Vision, small product
that we're releasing super

774
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,100
excited for the future and just
to be supported by techstars and

775
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,400
by your vision as well.
Pete and the mentorship we've

776
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,700
been given thus far as been just
an absolute treat and, and truly

777
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,900
magnificent for our trajectory.
So hope to change the world with

778
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:39,300
you and with your help.
And I can't thank you enough.

779
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:41,300
Awesome.
Thank you, Jesse.

780
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,300
And what's the best way for
people to get in touch with you?

781
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600
I am surprisingly.
Most active on LinkedIn.

782
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:50,200
Then actually that is probably
the best way but you can also

783
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,000
email myself.
Jesse at trust wear.i.

784
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,800
Oh Jonathan a trustworthy IO.
Would love to hear from you and

785
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,300
if you do manage to find me on
telegram, which is my full name,

786
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,100
I will eventually answer.
So yeah.

787
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,300
All right, super cool.
We'll listen Jesse, thank you so

788
00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:09,700
much.
This was an incredible chat.

789
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,800
I appreciate how deep you took
me so thank you Pete.

790
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
Always a pleasure.
Looking forward to the next one.

791
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:20,700
That does it for this week,
folks.

792
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:22,500
Thanks to Jesse Phillips for
opening up his mind.

793
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:23,800
To help us figure out why he
does.

794
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,700
What he does to learn more
about, Jesse Phillips, Jonathan

795
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:29,600
Frazier, and Trust, we're in the
show notes on our website money,

796
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,200
never sleeps, dad, IE or just
check them out on trust, where

797
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:32,900
that?
I owe.

798
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,600
If you like what you heard,
please leave us a rating and, or

799
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,600
review on Apple podcast or
Spotify.

800
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,900
Is it helps others to find the
show Mexico?

801
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:41,900
No, Brophy from create, some,
for mixing and editing.

802
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:44,500
This episode Conan is an
excellent medium and to get in

803
00:44:44,508 --> 00:44:46,100
touch with when you're thinking
about launching your own

804
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:48,500
podcast.
As for me, I'm an early stage

805
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:50,300
startup.
You're focused on where fintech

806
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:52,900
meets crypto and crypto meets
web 3 and I run the techstars.

807
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:55,200
Web three accelerator.
There are plenty of links in the

808
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,300
show notes on money, never
sleeps that IE on how to get in

809
00:44:57,308 --> 00:44:59,300
touch.
So don't hesitate to reach out

810
00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:01,500
finally till next time, thanks
for listening.

811
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:02,000
See you