221: First Chain | Greg Hannam, Peerkat, and the Power of NFT Data

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend in
this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the mind to
entrepreneurs, and at the

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crossover of startups,
Enterprise Finance, technology

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and Life.
As we know it, before we dive

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into this week's episode of
money, never sleeps, just a

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quick heads-up, that the eith
Dublin.

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Hackathon 2023 is on this
weekend from May 26 to the 28th

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at Dogpatch labs in Dublin.
Keith Dublin's of First web

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three, Focus hackathon conducted
in Ireland.

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In the idea is to create a space
for the community to build an

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attract talent to the web
through ecosystem.

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Check out the details on eith
doubling that io on the show

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this week.
We've got Greg, Hannum

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co-founder and CEO of pure cat.
One of the twelve founding teams

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forming the techstars web
through accelerator class of

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2023.
Pure cat is a data analytics

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tool for marketers to help them
understand their users, increase

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engagement and drive growth in
there.

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With three strategies, pure cat
combines multiple data sources

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with machine learning to connect
the dots between To and web

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three and provide powerful
insights into user Behavior

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across disparate platforms.
Before co-founding, peer cat

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with Ben Marshall and I Chi
women, a Greg's Roots.

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Bring them back to mechanical,
engineering at the University of

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Leeds, before diving, headfirst
into deep data analytics,

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product management, and then
working with a number of VC

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back.
Deep Tech startups in the a eyes

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face, developing product, growth
and operations functions in this

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episode.
Greg, connects the dots for us

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on how his life experiences,
drove him toward the pier Cat

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Vision before we dive into what
Pierre cat.

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Is all about right now, in the
value of the platform delivers

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to businesses.
Moving from web to into web 3.

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We also go down the rabbit hole
into how the usage of the

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technical construct.
That is a non fungible token or

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nft has evolved since 2017 where
it's all going and how pure cat

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will capture the growth before
finishing with some life lessons

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and insights from Greg.
All right here on money, never

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sleeps.
I'm never surprised at the back.

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Stories of people that I have on
the show because we've had so

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many different types of people
on this show.

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Greg, and I knew yours,
obviously, coming into this chat

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because, you know, we've
invested in pure cat in your

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business, right?
So we did take a good hard look

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at at your past and what I'd
like for you to connect the dots

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instead of me, okay?
And that I picked out a few

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things that were interesting to
me.

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To share with others around
scouting mechanical engineering,

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deep data analytics, business
intelligence, Venture building,

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which is pretty interesting.
And now, co-founder and CEO

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appear cat.
Tell me how you connect the dots

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and why this, all makes sense.
Greg Hannah?

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Yeah, it's funny looking back.
I think Steve Jobs said follow

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what your intuition says or
follow your interests and then,

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Like they have to connect the
dots at the time, but looking

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back, I sort of path.
Emerges scouting is very far

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back.
I mean, I started that six years

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old, I think and I went right
through the organization right

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into.
I was leading a group that had

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anywhere between 70 to 100
scouts at any one time I was,

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you know, looking at how to take
them on hiking, go camping with

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them so much organization.
And yeah, I really learned some

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great lessons in sort of
Leadership in how you can have a

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good control over any given
situation chaos erupts, anytime

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a load of kids, do that many
kids get together and I think

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that's really helped me in later
life to sort of lead teams.

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And yeah, it's sort of still
using those skills to these debt

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to this day.
Oh yeah.

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Oh yeah.
And is the motto still be

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prepared.
I was a scout.

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Yes.
Yeah, it is be prepared and I,

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yeah, I still live by that.
I always check the weather

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before I go out.
Well Trent muscle memory there

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as we say in Ireland there's no
such thing as bad weather, just

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inappropriate clothing.
Yeah, right, so be prepared.

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Yeah.
Falls forward quite a lot

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mechanical engineering at
University.

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That's an interesting one
because originally I was going

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to go in for economics and I
turned up at the at Warwick

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University I think it was and I
went to the economics talk.

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They were doing that their
introduction to it and then I

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went to the engineering talk and
the economics one was quite like

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Like verbal and didn't have many
examples of what they were going

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to do.
It was all just talk through

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engineering, they got us
instantly playing in like the

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wave machine and stuff like
that, and I was actually, this

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sounds a lot more fun.
So I ended up doing engineering

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switching off economics.
Very glad I did.

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It's funny that wave machine
thing.

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It must have sparked something,
because I ended up specializing

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in something, called
computational fluid dynamics,

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which is the study of fluids
environments.

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So, when you see the red ball,
Jason called with the slip

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streams and stuff mapped out
over the wings.

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That's the sort of simulations
that I was doing.

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So is really heavy on data?
I looked at everything from data

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centers startups.
Looking at how you could use,

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convection, currents to cool big
memory boards and I did some

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work for GSK looking at how you
could inspect syringes and this

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was pre covid and I think became
quite well using it during

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covid.
How you could inspect syringes

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for defects because they have
all these Pre-filled medical

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syringes going through of every
different vaccine?

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And yeah, they needed to
understand if there's any

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defects in that.
So wow, all that processing, all

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that data.
Sort of gave me a real good

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background in that.
After uni, I tried to get a job

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in Leeds, actually, which was
where I went to University, but

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I couldn't find anywhere that
sort of fit the bill and I ended

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up back in London, which is
where I'm from.

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I landed in a boutique law
consultancy and we helped

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lawyers understand their
finances, a lot better.

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So really go into that granular.
Presenting the information back

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in business, intelligence
dashboards and like I say, just

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helping them make more money,
which you know, it's never that.

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Yeah, for lawyers.
I know.

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I know yet which I think we
talked about this before those

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two threads there, that my
sister had a similar mechanical

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engineering path is you and with
through PhD at MIT and there was

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a lot of fluid that she talked
about a lot of cooling that she

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talked about in engines and
motors and plastic grown engines

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that all this wonderful kind of
stuff.

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So, good connection point there
and we can be careful because my

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mom previously was a lawyer
before she became a mediator.

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So the power of data in law is
something that is quite unique.

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Yeah, it was fascinating that
these lawyers, who charge

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thousands and thousands of
pounds per hour still.

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We're putting together budgets
for certain accounts that

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actually they were going over
budget for and, you know, so

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that the firm as a whole was
losing money and yet, you know,

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they have probably one of the
best plane Jobs in the world so

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it was fascinating to see what
data can unlock and as a

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business how that helps them
drive forward.

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Yes.
So that company was like a small

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consultancy like I said, we
always think I was number seven.

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We grew it to 20 over a year and
a half or so and then we got

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Acquired and moving from a
20-person organization to a

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200-person organization
overnight was quite a big change

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for me in the grand scheme of
things.

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It's probably nothing but I felt
the change.

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The red tape bureaucracy creep
in.

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I knew it was sort of like a
Ticking time for how long I was

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there in this, a bigger
organization.

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But I learned a huge amount of
skills product management,

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managing multiple stakeholders,
all that sort of stuff.

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And that was really good
training for.

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Okay, how do I actually apply
Frameworks to build better

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faster products and get it out
to Market more quickly?

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So, yeah, that was incredibly
valuable time and I picked up

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the skills.
I needed to then go into the

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Avenger building.
Yeah, I met a chap while Was

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that this bigger company and he
was, he said, well, I'm on my

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sabbatical Kenny interested in
startups.

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You also seem interested in
startups because I've sort of

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pitched him on a hardware idea,
which we will go into another

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time.
But he said, look, I'm helping

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these Oxford University,
spinouts who have Venture back

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in, but they can't commercialize
that well.

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So, could you come in and help?
And yeah, so I went and did that

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for two or so years and, yeah,
learn again.

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Learn so much did the Microsoft
Roadshow so flew out to It's

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seven different cities on three
different continents pitching.

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This AI tool, I then went in and
help to labeling company.

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Again, working out there
commercialization strategy.

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So, sort of done the technical
bit then did the commercial bit.

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And I think that's really set me
up well, for pick at now, would

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ya?
So where we are, I'm getting

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there, I'm getting that and that
that deep deep deep experience

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in data and Red Bull Racing
Series slip streams, right?

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I don't even want to get into
that.

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And they are huge, huge, huge
amounts of data.

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They're making sense of that and
being able to present it to

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those in Professional Services,
understanding organizations in

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organization size and going
from, like you said, seven to 20

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to 200 people and seeing how
that all happens.

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And then this diversity of
experience across a bunch of

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different kinds of startups and
just helping that.

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Yeah, all of that is a wonderful
boot camp for you to get to the

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Age of becoming a start-up
founder.

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So tell me how you and Ben and
Ike got together to form a cat.

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Yes.
So we actually met at a

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hackathon in the 2019.
We were on the last one in team

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as they call it will complete
Randomness.

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We didn't have a team.
And so, yeah, we sort of formed

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around Ben who happened to be
having to be there for the

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initial kickoff.
I think he had to go and Pitch.

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An idea.
When in fact, it came with two

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ideas, he pitched one, which he
was Volcano, which was actively

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working on, and he pitched a
second, which everyone else

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like.
So unfortunately, had to give up

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the one he liked and we went and
worked on a live streaming idea

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which yeah, we we built
throughout the hackathon, it was

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like a two-week thing.
We won that and then went on to

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win, many more hackathons and
stuff.

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I think that quite quickly
realized who would work in the

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team and who wouldn't.
So, I think that hackathon had

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seven people, we actually
whittled it down to four and and

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they've become the co-founders.
And okay.

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And what was the live stream
idea?

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Why do you think it won the heck
of that?

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I think it was novel.
It was like, uber for live

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streaming if that makes don't
say, Uber for anything ever, but

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the concept was that you could
drop a pin on a map.

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So, the Hong Kong protests were
quite big at the time and we

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wanted a uncensor abroad live
stream from that part of the

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world.
And in exchange you would send

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micro payments the other way.
So it was sort of like a I need

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to know this information.
Now, I want an unbiased view of

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it.
Is anyone in the area?

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Yes, I am.
Okay, sort of a bit like a gig

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economy so that's why I drew the
comparison.

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And why do you think that it,
you wrapped it up?

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Why didn't you guys pursue that?
What was the lesson that came

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out of that?
Yes.

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So that was interesting.
They're sort of yeah, frou-frou

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building those.
There was a couple of lessons.

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We actually learn one was
incentives.

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Don't necessarily mean good
business.

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So we Were on a evm chain called
Thunder core, which we deployed

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this app to we had sixty six
thousand users in 188 countries.

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I was just disappointed that we
didn't get anyone in the Vatican

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City using it.
Okay?

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The reason why we were able to
do that was we offered to

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thunder tokens to jump on and
try out the app, do a couple of

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actions and then jump off.
And well what happened was

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people then jumped off and then
didn't come back so they claim

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the tokens and that was it.
So we got all these users but

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00:11:57,300 --> 00:12:00,900
the retention was just horrible
and That we realized actually we

229
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:04,700
need to build for a problem.
That is sort of consistent.

230
00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:06,800
It's going to happen every day
and make people want to come

231
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,400
back to the to the app and to
interact with us.

232
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,900
So I think there was a real big
learning from that video live

233
00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:15,400
streaming.
It was far too, serendipitous.

234
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,800
Yeah.
Plus yeah.

235
00:12:16,808 --> 00:12:18,800
You can't be passive and yeah.
Pass.

236
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,800
If there's a company, Natick
switch is a techstars company

237
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,200
and they're putting cameras on
the dashboard people's cars.

238
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:31,400
Okay, and basically mapping the
world in 3D well, and that if

239
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,200
you have the camera then and you
recording and you're submitting

240
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,700
your video, whatever you filmed,
you get the micro payments back,

241
00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:40,300
the form of a Tillman
interesting, right?

242
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:42,300
So it's totally passive, is just
you're driving around.

243
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:44,400
You turn the camera on your map
in the world.

244
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,400
Yeah.
And I got all excited about

245
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,400
that.
There's a couple years ago, I

246
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,500
was talking to them and I'm
like, oh my God, you're like

247
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:53,000
designing a real world metaverse
with 3D and they're like, yeah,

248
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,100
we could do that but not sure
that's the number one laughter.

249
00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:01,100
Yeah Pete.
So anyway, No, that that's it.

250
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:02,800
These lessons learned that you
get out of this.

251
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:04,600
And then you see somebody else
doing something similar.

252
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,100
A couple years down the road.
How did all of this morph than

253
00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:10,600
into pure cat?
Yes.

254
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,700
So, after we scrapped that idea
and there was a bit of

255
00:13:13,700 --> 00:13:17,000
soul-searching, we realized that
as a team, this sort of social

256
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,400
media, sort of play wasn't what
we had envisioned.

257
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,600
So we actually ended up doing a
couple of Grants just to keep

258
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,200
the team going.
Build out a few things.

259
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200
We were interested in the first
one was on something called into

260
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,200
Ledger protocol that, Was the
micropayments technology we were

261
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,900
using so we got a grant from
something called grab the web

262
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,000
that gave us enough standing to
then go ahead and get a grant

263
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,500
from the Exile PL foundation.
So we got one Grant from them to

264
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:45,300
build out open-source minting
software and as we were building

265
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:48,100
that and delivering it, we
realized that actually there's a

266
00:13:48,108 --> 00:13:52,600
much more pressing matter which
brands who are getting into the

267
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,500
space, couldn't make sense of
the data that was coming back so

268
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:02,400
you know, web 30 Is a vision of
like highly engaged communities

269
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,600
of super fans and a load of
Brands brought brought in to

270
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,700
their credit launched in various
initiatives to yet, get closer

271
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:15,400
to their fans than ever before.
As the hype faded though, I

272
00:14:15,408 --> 00:14:17,800
think we've started see
marketing teams getting asked

273
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,800
about Roi to justify their
ongoing, spend in terms of a

274
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,500
real world example to understand
what's going on.

275
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,600
Over a Persona, we call Alice,
she's the head of marketing at a

276
00:14:28,608 --> 00:14:32,100
brand and Has been put in charge
of overseeing, their web three

277
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:34,300
effort.
However, with the recent

278
00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:37,500
negative press the exec team has
asked for presentation on the

279
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:41,900
ongoing investment, Alice wants
to combine quantitative and

280
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:45,000
qualitative data.
So taking any token, gated

281
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,400
interaction with one chain and
social data qualitative is okay.

282
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,900
At the moment, we have quite
good tools to understand where

283
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:54,700
to, to monitor social media
chatter.

284
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,100
However, when you look at
quantitative, you probably have

285
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,200
to hire in like a web 3.
Data scientist, which there

286
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,100
aren't a lot of in the world to
Wrangle the data structure, it

287
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,500
and extract any insights.
Even after all that, you'd then

288
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:09,800
have to go through and work out
if there's any links between

289
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,700
your web to people and your web
three people.

290
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,300
And so yeah, it's just a real
sticky problem.

291
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,200
Getting to that Roi answer in a
parallel world.

292
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,500
Alice has already bought pickup,
which has done a lot of the hard

293
00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,900
work, combining multiple data
sources with machine learning to

294
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:27,700
connect the dots between web to
and we're 3.

295
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,100
And we feed that data into the
Till she's already familiar with

296
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,400
HubSpot Salesforce that sort of
thing.

297
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:36,900
So in doing so we give marketers
the ability to answer their

298
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,100
bosses prove the ROI and winning
web three.

299
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,900
We think that's a really
powerful idea to help

300
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,700
proliferate the technology.
Okay, cool.

301
00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:49,600
And and maybe just to pull on
that thread a little bit Greg

302
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:56,200
that the data that that you can
mine out of blockchains because

303
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,600
that's what this is right.
And that you can present some

304
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,100
Actionable insights and on a
user by user basis.

305
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:07,800
Yeah you know give us an example
of the value the deliverable to

306
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:08,800
Alice.
Right?

307
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,400
What what is she looking at?
What is she consuming?

308
00:16:11,500 --> 00:16:14,500
And how does she then turn that
into something that is worth

309
00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:16,100
pursuing?
Yes.

310
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:20,000
So at the moment, people hang
out in their third space, the

311
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,300
Twitter, the disk called brands
have a lever that they can pull

312
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,000
to try and it sort of
incentivize that.

313
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,100
So they spend money in social
media to promote, Note the new

314
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:34,200
nft drop stuff like that, they
then launch the project and

315
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,100
people go in and buy the nft S
and then they do stuff with that

316
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:40,800
unchain.
Now, what where the missing link

317
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,200
is at the moment is connecting
the social media output, the

318
00:16:44,208 --> 00:16:47,900
spend their, okay?
So the on chain activity, I sort

319
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:52,200
of frame it as cost per value as
a sort of that was saying that's

320
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,300
not mine.
Yeah, definitely borrowed it

321
00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:56,200
from somewhere.
And the credit to that person,

322
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,300
whoever they may be, whoever
they may be.

323
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:01,300
But yeah, this idea of okay.
I can pull this lever and put in

324
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:04,700
put in here, spend on social
media influencers on ads.

325
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,900
And on the other side, I get on
chain activity, people engaging,

326
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,099
that's what we're looking at.
Making that link.

327
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:15,500
Okay, okay.
And the last thing I want to do

328
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,800
here and I may delete this what
I listen back and I'm not happy

329
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,500
with it is to draw an inference
to anything having to do with

330
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,599
gambling, okay?
Because I think someone in the

331
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,900
UK, the FCA or treasury, or
someone came out recently and

332
00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:31,200
said something about crypto and
gambling.

333
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,400
We're good.
We'll talk about nft.

334
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,100
He's more a bit in a second but
that Matt McAllister.

335
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,500
Shout out to him.
He is the co-founder and CEO of

336
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:41,200
a business called mortgage
propeller.

337
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,300
But in a previous life, he was
with Paddy Power Betfair, right?

338
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,500
And he explained to me how they
could tie their social media

339
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:54,200
spent on Twitter, Facebook,
Instagram, whatever, to their

340
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:59,600
six-month, future revenue and
say, if they spent X now in

341
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:05,300
Months that would result in y in
revenue and just because of the

342
00:18:05,308 --> 00:18:08,500
way people respond to add the
way they see things in social

343
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:11,500
media, click get engaged,
whatever.

344
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:15,500
Yeah and it sounds like you're
pursuing a similar path here.

345
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:19,700
Yeah for sure it's a Brave New
World from ox's in a way where

346
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,600
three-step stepping into the
unknown.

347
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,900
I mean we've seen multiple
people fail.

348
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:28,300
It, Porsche Chevy those guys.
Yeah, they're launches went down

349
00:18:28,300 --> 00:18:29,500
really badly.
Yeah.

350
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,500
And so, I think, yeah, there's
probably two parts to it, maybe

351
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:38,200
the gambling, the gambling guys
did what we're looking to do.

352
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,800
So, you know, Lincoln, what
people do in that third space to

353
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,300
the on chain value.
That's the same thing.

354
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,500
I think we're Brands will take
it is It might not necessarily

355
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:52,800
be value, that they're trying to
drive.

356
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,100
It might be brand reputation,
and value is a measure of that.

357
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,400
So it'll be interesting to see
what comes out in the wash when

358
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,600
people look at it and go, okay,
this is actually data point that

359
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,700
I need gambling's quite
specific, so yeah, I know, I

360
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:10,100
know and it's probably a
terrible analogy, but, you know,

361
00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:13,100
and one that I didn't want to
draw any, any relation to

362
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:16,300
because of where we're going
with that, have teased, but I'm

363
00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:20,700
seeing this connectivity between
The way that companies and

364
00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:25,100
Brands advertise these days on
social media and the data that

365
00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:29,400
is available on that to a
connectivity.

366
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,400
With unchain data.
For when these brands are

367
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,900
engaging, Gia tokens via non
fungible tokens and FTS With

368
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:40,900
Their audience with their super
fans as you're saying to then

369
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:42,200
sales results.
Yeah.

370
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,900
And being able to do the data
mining to pull all this together

371
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,500
in the same way that you are
crunching.

372
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:53,800
And Pounding and churning data
in for Red Bull Racing Series

373
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,600
going over a slipstream.
Yeah.

374
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,200
Because it's a huge amount of
data that you need to mind here

375
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:03,000
and you get some pretty good
data Talent, like Ike your CT 0,

376
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:06,400
to be able to make sense of all
this with a machine learning

377
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,500
type approach.
Yeah, and I think that it, I

378
00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:13,200
always think of it as like, the
Disney flywheel.

379
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,800
So they, they spend so much on
branding on advertising and then

380
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,700
they want people to then, Go and
buy the DVD, then they watch the

381
00:20:20,708 --> 00:20:22,500
DVDs at home.
And then the kids are like,

382
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:24,900
let's go to Disneyland and they
go to Disneyland and spend money

383
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,900
and buy merch.
The Disney flywheel is

384
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:31,100
predicated on LTV long lifetime
customer value.

385
00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:35,600
Yeah, and yeah, they're gambling
analogy does work because for

386
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,100
this I prefer the Disney
flywheel.

387
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:43,100
Okay, yes.
So Disney they are driving LTV.

388
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:46,000
We could look at cost per
acquisition of user, all those

389
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,300
sorts of other marketing
metrics, but the moment

390
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,900
performance Marketing doesn't
exist in web three so I think

391
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:54,200
we're seeing the birth of this
sort of second, a new industry.

392
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,100
Almost.
Oh, yeah.

393
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,800
Oh yeah, it all been driven and
so much.

394
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,300
Oh, can I get a Lambo with, you
know, the profit I just made on

395
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:03,700
my on my do I want to say board
ape.

396
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,400
I'm going to say board ape and
and risk alienating a few folks.

397
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,200
But, you know, whatever on that
note, we're going down to really

398
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,000
interesting path here during the
selection process with

399
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,900
techstars.
We talked a lot about nft 1.0,

400
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,300
which is just that Profile Pics,
right?

401
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:28,300
And then moving to NFD 2.0 which
is that plus more of a community

402
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:30,600
in a membership, right?
Because I feel like I want to be

403
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,700
part of this tribe.
I want to be part of the crypto

404
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,900
Punk's tribe.
I want to be part of the board,

405
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:37,800
a tribe.
I'm willing to use some of the

406
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,500
eith that I've been accumulating
over the years to participate in

407
00:21:41,508 --> 00:21:44,500
that and to show my badge and to
wear my badge that I am part of

408
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,700
this community, right.
Moving to n ft 3.

409
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:52,300
Dato which we talk a lot about
things.

410
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,100
Such as token, gated experiences
both in real life and virtual

411
00:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,900
soulbound tokens, right?
Where you are talking more about

412
00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:02,900
digital ID.
And we're seeing a lot of

413
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:07,100
interesting things happen there.
Big Brand loyalty programs, this

414
00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:10,600
is all data driven.
And this is all, you know, when

415
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,700
we were just talking through
this connectivity between social

416
00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:18,400
media, spend on chain data and
brand Revenue, I see all the

417
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,100
pieces, Starting to line here.
But which one for you, what

418
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:28,400
version of the nft landscape?
And like I've said before, I

419
00:22:28,408 --> 00:22:33,700
hate using nft right this
technology acronym to really

420
00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:36,700
describe the space, but it's the
best we have because, I think

421
00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:38,800
digital collectible to me, not,
everything's a digital

422
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,800
collectible in the nft space.
It's some of this is just

423
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,300
becoming middleware, right?
So which version of this 1.0 2.0

424
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:48,700
3.0 are you most attracted to
for the long term?

425
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,900
ERM.
And why?

426
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,500
Yes, I it's interesting.
So, like blockchain started with

427
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,500
fungibility and being money.
However, NF teas are really what

428
00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:03,400
we see as the future.
They represent so many more

429
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,200
things in our lives than
fungible tokens, you know?

430
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,500
And and those things like in our
lives, you don't necessarily

431
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:14,100
care about the price of.
So we think I view point is

432
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:17,100
that, that will go away like
constantly watching the price

433
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,800
doing the accumulation of Well
through and ftes, we think that

434
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,000
would be secondary to Brands and
loyalty programs.

435
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Like you say the nft 3.0 thing
because really offers a way for

436
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,200
Brands to get closer to their
fans.

437
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,200
We think that will bring more
web to people in than any other

438
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,200
type of incentive.
So we we look at we think this

439
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,500
is going to become the dominant
form of marketing.

440
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,500
The reason why we think that is
because brands have a huge

441
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:47,900
amount of intangibles on their
balance sheet.

442
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,600
I think real pal.
Al says it's about seventy four

443
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,600
trillion, sin intangibles, and
that stuff, like IP brand

444
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,100
loyalty, all those things.
And then FTS, what?

445
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:01,400
The prices and important.
They do actually quantify that

446
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,100
for Brands again, going back to
our Disney analogy, if we make

447
00:24:06,100 --> 00:24:08,800
any of teas for all the Disney
stuff and we're able to track

448
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,800
that, what sort of market cap
would Disney have as a company

449
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,500
versus as an NF?
T project is a really

450
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:17,500
interesting idea.
It really interesting concept,

451
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:21,300
you're talking one of the most
Treaty relevant brands in the

452
00:24:21,308 --> 00:24:24,000
entire world, probably touched
everyone's life across the

453
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,500
world, how valuable is that?
And I think that's what entities

454
00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:31,200
will measure, not that it will
get into, you know, that sort of

455
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,000
way.
We think it will be more of an

456
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,900
engagement tool but it's just
one one thing to look at how

457
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:39,200
Brands can convert intangibles
into tangibles.

458
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,900
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
I'm with you.

459
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:46,000
And you got me really thinking
deep here today, Greg and no,

460
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
no, no, it's good, it's good.
Might have been a couple of So

461
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,900
it's not back before we started
recording this, but people may

462
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:57,800
ask and say, all right, you've
got this social media spend this

463
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,100
way that people engage with
Brands and you've got their

464
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,200
revenue output on the other end
of it, why not?

465
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,500
Just connect the two and it's
that we have this additional

466
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,000
digital link between those two
variables in this equation of a

467
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:18,200
brand success and when you look
at a loyalty program perhaps

468
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,800
that is Tokenized and on chain,
where you look at, perhaps a

469
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,800
soulbound token that is
representative of all of the

470
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,800
loyalty programs that I may be a
member of, I'd have one token

471
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,600
that just automatic, that is
dynamic, that automatically gets

472
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:38,800
updated and where I am part of
Starbucks or I'm part of Jesus.

473
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,700
I don't do enough shopping to be
able to get where I'm part of

474
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:47,300
the U2 fan club, right?
Where I have my, my Boston Red

475
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,500
Sox fan club.
Right where I have everything

476
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:56,000
accruing to when I take my kids
to a Leinster Rugby match.

477
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,200
And all of these points that are
adding up on this and with the

478
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,400
soul bound to occur, that is all
just very rich data and with web

479
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:10,900
three that can be anonymous the
and that with the rise of zero,

480
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,300
knowledge proof sand the
technology around that, this is

481
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,700
going to kind of quell, the fear
that a number of folks that I

482
00:26:17,708 --> 00:26:20,900
talked to have about.
Well, I'm living my life in all

483
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:24,400
of this in public because all of
this on chain data is public.

484
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,900
I'm like yeah, but at the same
time, it can be anonymous and

485
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:29,700
you can prove that you're a
certain age just by.

486
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:33,900
Hey, I've got my age in the
soulbound token and that I can

487
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,600
then authenticate myself without
giving away any personal

488
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,900
information to the party that
needs to know how old I am in

489
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:42,900
order to receive services, or do
something like that, right?

490
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:47,800
Or buy a beer for that matter.
So, there's this intersection

491
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,700
point of all of Love this as
well, with this scary thing

492
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:55,800
called Ai and that if we're able
to move the world into a

493
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,500
framework of their kind of
commercial lives being on chain,

494
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:07,200
that it's going to make it a lot
easier to fuel, the AI systems

495
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,400
programs, algorithms around all
of this to deliver.

496
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,100
Well, even more value for
somebody or perhaps even more,

497
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,600
you know, the Terminator
reality.

498
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,100
Which one would you like to go
to?

499
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,900
And where do you see this
becoming a big part of

500
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,300
everybody's day?
Yeah, I think it's really

501
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:28,200
interesting.
I was touched on why the brands

502
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,600
might get involved, but you've
hit a good point there, which is

503
00:27:30,608 --> 00:27:33,800
why consumers might get
involved, and I think there's

504
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,000
sort of two things there 1n, F,
TS give you digital ownership.

505
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,400
You said, so burn tokens.
This is you in the metaverse

506
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,900
effectively and it's all the
social signals and stuff wrapped

507
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,000
into that, which is fundamental
human psychology.

508
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,700
The other part of it is every
time I always like to think of N

509
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:57,200
ftes and holding in the 50s as
sort of the best survey that

510
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,000
anyone's ever going to do
because you're here going, oh

511
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,200
I've got this nft, I've held it
for a long time, I'm interested

512
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,100
in this.
That is such a strong signal for

513
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:08,800
Brands to say oh these are all
fans.

514
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,900
These are real fans and we
talked about earlier like what

515
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:16,300
the extra link between the two,
what web 3 gives us.

516
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,300
If they're holding that nft, we
can then look at every time they

517
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:24,900
engage as well, and that
engagement is going to be them

518
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:29,000
using their social collateral,
their social currency and going

519
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:35,000
in and using their nft to get
access to something and that's

520
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,500
like real usage.
We always talk about vanity

521
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,300
metrics versus actual metrics in
business, you know, Revenue

522
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:43,600
versus profit two very different
things.

523
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,600
And I think the same sort of
analogy is applied here, like a

524
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,500
fan.
Actively engaging is probably a

525
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:53,700
little caveat, that probably
much more valuable than a fan

526
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,300
who is just, you know, on social
media talking about it because

527
00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:00,000
it's actual real activity.
And I think that's, that's where

528
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,100
it gets really exciting.
So, yeah, we got this great

529
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:06,100
survey, everyone's doing stuff.
If you then zoom out of that and

530
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:09,900
you look at all these Anonymous
wallets and all the entities,

531
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:12,700
they hold, there's just a
fascinating interest graph that

532
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:15,800
forms we saw Tick-Tock the Riser
Tick-Tock.

533
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200
Why did they win?
Why is Twitter so interesting,

534
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,100
is that interest graph?
I think we're on the precipice

535
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,800
of seeing and FTS become you
know, a new layer to build

536
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,300
really cool products on top and
understand people.

537
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:33,000
Even if they are Anonymous
through their wallets in such a

538
00:29:33,008 --> 00:29:35,300
new way.
I just yeah I'm fascinated by

539
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,800
the data.
So big is really cool.

540
00:29:38,300 --> 00:29:40,600
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah and I'm think I'm

541
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,200
there's another route.
All I could go down here and

542
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,900
it's called the D Phi Matrix and
it's okay, I'm going to stop.

543
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,100
Because it's I think it's
Wednesday.

544
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,100
I always get like this midweek.
But listen, you guys learned

545
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,700
some pretty valuable lessons in
a different variations of this

546
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,900
business that you've had over
the years.

547
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,800
In clearly have an excellent
picture of where you're going

548
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,300
and hopefully all of our list of
the hopefully all of our

549
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,600
listeners do as well through the
Meandering we've done here.

550
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:14,800
But What do you think is the
single biggest lesson that you

551
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,100
learned so far about with these
different variations that you've

552
00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:21,900
had of the business?
With, with, with I can with Ben.

553
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,400
Yeah, I think the single biggest
learning for us is go where the

554
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,000
people are distribution beats,
Cool Tech.

555
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,700
You know, we, I've said about
that evm chain and, you know, we

556
00:30:33,708 --> 00:30:36,000
got 6,000 users.
Yeah.

557
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,500
And that was because we embedded
our Tech into another thing that

558
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:41,600
already had usage.
And then, The same.

559
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,800
Again, goes happened this time
where we embedded ANF, a simple

560
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,800
nft viewer into a wallet.
That's given us five thousand

561
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,800
monthly active users, which has
succeeded.

562
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,300
This database, this idea and
really allowed us to test a lot

563
00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:00,200
of things.
Get rid of the bad ideas quickly

564
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800
when you have users you can do
that sort of stuff.

565
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:09,400
And yeah, so my sort of advice
from our learnings is embed go

566
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,600
to where the people are and From
the brand side or business side,

567
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,800
you know, embed into the tools,
they're already using.

568
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:20,800
It's so painful when you see
people spend all this money

569
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,500
building out.
For example, a new CRM system

570
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,200
when hubs for you're not going
to unseat HubSpot yep, anytime

571
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,300
soon.
But from our point of view, you

572
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:32,000
could just plug in because it is
just a data.

573
00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:34,600
And yeah, I think that's
probably the biggest piece of

574
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,900
advice.
I'd give to any sort of startup

575
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:38,600
Founders.
Look at how you can play.

576
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,100
Nice, don't give away your
Competitive Edge.

577
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,400
Which is always that thread in
the needle with API plays.

578
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,900
But yeah, that that's sort of
it.

579
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Then I'll biggest takeaway.
That's a good one.

580
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:53,300
And I'm judging at the eith
Dublin hackathon.

581
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,600
This weekend.
Yeah.

582
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,100
On Sunday and I can't wait to
ask my questions which are,

583
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,900
okay.
So talk to me about your

584
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:04,800
customers, talk to me about your
users because so much focus is

585
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,800
when it's at the earliest stages
of creation, it's like I had

586
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,100
this idea to create this really
awesome thing.

587
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:13,400
And you get passion and energy
about it.

588
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,600
But then okay.
What about the users?

589
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:18,200
Who's going to do that, right?
Go to where the people are.

590
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:20,400
Yeah, love that.
Love that.

591
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:25,400
If you had a time machine Greg
and you could go to the Future

592
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,500
to visit your 50 year old self.
I just turned 50, right?

593
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:31,900
Congrats.
Thank you.

594
00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:37,100
Everyone saying, congrats like
like, like I've made it this

595
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:43,000
far, it's my life, but if you
could visit your 50 year old

596
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,900
self, right?
What do you think the words of

597
00:32:45,900 --> 00:32:50,000
wisdom that you're 50 year?
Old self would give to today's

598
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:53,900
Greg, Hannum.
Yeah, I thought about this and I

599
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:56,800
came up with lean in and enjoy
the process.

600
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,700
Classic example of this the
other day, you put together a

601
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,400
panel or nft ownership.
It's not something I've ever

602
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,500
talked about before.
And yeah, I was if super

603
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:11,500
stressful in the moment, I'd
literally, you know, wanted to

604
00:33:11,508 --> 00:33:13,600
run away.
I felt really sick and I don't

605
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,400
know if that came across.
I hope not.

606
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:16,800
I'll try to keep it.
Calm.

607
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,600
Keep it collected.
He did fine.

608
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:21,000
But yeah.
And then after, you know, you're

609
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,200
anxious, I think goes right down
your heart rate drops.

610
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,200
And you think, why is that
making that far?

611
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,700
So it's like, yeah leaning say
yes, we're at this crazy point

612
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:32,100
in history and we sort of
touched on different bits here

613
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,600
where these next-generation
industries are forming a i web

614
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,400
three like GreenTech.
All these sort of exponential

615
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:41,700
Industries, all these
exponential Technologies are

616
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:44,400
coming out at once and if you're
not immersed, if you're not

617
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,000
willing to put yourself out
there and get uncomfortable, I

618
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,500
think you'll miss out.
You know, when, when when

619
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:52,100
problems arise.
I've okay, you've just got a

620
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:53,300
panel.
You need to go on.

621
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,300
You don't know what you're going
to say, you know, it's like

622
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:56,900
that.
Say thank you for that moment.

623
00:33:56,900 --> 00:33:58,700
Okay.
Obviously it feels a lot

624
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:00,000
different when you're in that
moment.

625
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,300
But yeah, it's going to be my
advice.

626
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:05,300
Looking back is like, you know,
well done for saying yes.

627
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,000
The other day you guys asked for
a volunteer.

628
00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:09,400
I was like okay let's do this.
I've no idea what I'm going to

629
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,000
say, oh yeah, let's go for it.
Oh yeah.

630
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:14,000
Oh my god, do you make a fool of
myself?

631
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000
But that's alright.
You did.

632
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,600
No, you did great.
And just so the world knows what

633
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,900
Greg Hannum did a couple days
ago was that he volunteered to

634
00:34:20,908 --> 00:34:23,900
do.
Mock negotiation on closing, his

635
00:34:23,900 --> 00:34:26,800
round, with David Cohen, the
legendary David Cohen.

636
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,699
That one of the founders of Tech
Stars whose now chairman attack

637
00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:31,800
stars.
And this is a session that he

638
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,400
does for Founder's in each in
each term.

639
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:39,100
And so we had a bunch of
different textures programs all

640
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:45,000
at once, and Greg successfully
got David Cohen to commit by by

641
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,100
removing the obstacles in
David's way, right?

642
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:50,000
Obviously, this is a mock
negotiation.

643
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,199
We've already, you know, Stars
has already invested in a cat

644
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:57,100
so, but that, you know, it bodes
well for the following rounds,

645
00:34:57,100 --> 00:34:58,600
to see how your performed in
that.

646
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,700
So that that was that was
fantastic.

647
00:35:00,700 --> 00:35:04,100
And I, you know, just reflecting
on what you just said is, well,

648
00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:06,900
Greg what I like to say is that
always put yourself into

649
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:09,000
positions that you're completely
unqualified for.

650
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:17,000
Like I walked out a BMP power
about in 2015 26 2016.

651
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:20,800
Yeah, to be exact with dream of
becoming a venture investor.

652
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:24,400
I had absolutely no
qualification to do any of that

653
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,300
besides spirit and passion and
drive, right?

654
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,200
And it took a few years, but I
got there.

655
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,800
And, you know, I was completely
unqualified to be pursuing that

656
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,400
Vision at the point, but you
learn, you learn along the way,

657
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,400
right?
So we've, you know, we talked

658
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,000
through scouting earlier and I
think thinking about your

659
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,900
personality and knowing you a
bit.

660
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:51,000
Now Greg and that there's that
does explain a lot.

661
00:35:51,100 --> 00:35:55,300
I think you're very natural
helpful, person, and community

662
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:57,800
building.
And those types of traits are

663
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,900
coming through, pretty strongly.
What would be one thing that

664
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,200
people wouldn't expect to know
about you, though?

665
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:09,200
Yes, I may be a similar vibe to
The Scouting thing.

666
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,600
I actually took up when I was at
University.

667
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,300
I took up the vice presidential
role in the windsurfing Society.

668
00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:19,100
Wow, University, again, piece of
advice, for anyone who's

669
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:21,900
heading, there is the time that
you can reinvent yourself.

670
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,000
You can try all sorts of hats
on.

671
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:27,300
I've never done windsurfing
before, never even thought about

672
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:29,500
it quite frankly.
And then yeah, tried it in the

673
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,200
first year, really enjoyed it.
There was an opportunity.

674
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:35,300
I said yes, because I try and
push myself out.

675
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,100
Comfort zone.
And yeah, so I ended up being

676
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,800
the vice president again.
It was a lot of skills that I

677
00:36:40,808 --> 00:36:44,800
relied on, in the past salting
out group of 30, people going

678
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,600
down to Cornwall for like a
weekend, where all the

679
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,100
windsurfing societies come
together and well, not party,

680
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,900
but obviously do a very, you
know, intentional practice of

681
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:58,500
windsurfing, but yeah, it's just
again, it's such an amazing

682
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,600
experience and yeah, putting
yourself in those situations.

683
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,000
It's like, one of them and so,
yeah, not a lot of people know

684
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,600
that I probably also So I'm one
of the few Society leaders that

685
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,500
didn't actually managed to do
the activity.

686
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:13,900
They were leading really, the
whole year, it was my third

687
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:17,400
year, there was deadlines every
single time that they that we

688
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,400
organized a trip.
So I ended up sitting on the

689
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,300
beach.
Sometimes, typing away on the

690
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:25,500
laptop to get the Wow, done.
Two hands.

691
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:27,400
I didn't actually get to go
windsurfing that you've never

692
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,100
been windsurfing.
I have been windsurfing, but not

693
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:31,500
in the year.
I was vice president of

694
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:34,100
windsurfing Society.
So oh my God, our claim to

695
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,800
somewhat Fame.
Wow, no, no, no.

696
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:42,300
That that is definitely a
rarity, you know, it's like no,

697
00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:44,000
I don't have an analogy ready
for that.

698
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,600
I don't so Greg.
What's the best way for people

699
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,200
to get in touch with you?
Yeah, you can find me on

700
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,700
Twitter.
It's at zero X Greg.

701
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:56,600
Hey, H or email me Greg pick
up.com.

702
00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:01,700
Listen, Greg, this has been such
an enjoyable chat and one that

703
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:05,900
given our relationship to date.
I think that this was half

704
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:08,700
expected, half unexpectedly, go
down this path.

705
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:11,400
So thank you.
I really appreciate you coming

706
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,100
out to the show and sharing all
of this and looking forward to

707
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:17,100
talking to you wealth.
Probably later today.

708
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:20,800
Yeah, thanks for the opportunity
to speak, really appreciate it.

709
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:25,800
That does it for this week
folks.

710
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,900
Thanks to Greg Hannah bra
burning up his mind to help us

711
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:29,300
figure out why he does what he
does.

712
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:31,800
You can learn more about Greg, a
Cat, the show notes on our

713
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,200
website money, never sleeps.
That IE, if you like what you

714
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,900
heard, please leave us a rating
and, or review on Apple podcast

715
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,000
or Spotify as it helps others to
find the show.

716
00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:41,500
Thanks to Kona Brophy, from
create sound for mixing and

717
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:43,500
editing.
This episode Kona is an

718
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:45,500
excellent medium and get in
touch with when you're thinking

719
00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:46,900
about launching your own
podcast.

720
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,800
As for me, I'm an early stage,
startup investor focused on

721
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,400
where fintech meets crypto and
crypto meets web 3 and I lead

722
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,300
the techstars web three
accelerator there.

723
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,700
You have links in the show notes
on money, never sleeps die and

724
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:59,000
how to get in touch.
So don't hesitate to reach out

725
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,300
finally till next time, thanks
for listening.

726
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:01,800
See you