223: Eye Know | Terence Reilly, OLTA and the Art of the Creator Protocol

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Hey there.
I'm p-town said, and this is

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money.
Never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs and at the

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crossover of startups and our
prize Finance technology and

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Life, as we know it on the show
this week, we've got Terrance

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Riley, co-founder, and CEO of
Ulta.

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One of the 12 founding teams
forming the techstars web three

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accelerator class of 2020 3
Ultimate.

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'He is a protocol for creators
and Studios to create Dynamic,

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media pushing the boundaries
from generative art into

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interactive art and story Ulta,
brings us all to life through

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Dynamic and ftes which enable
collectors to determine the

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outcome of the artwork over time
before co-founding older with

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George Baldwin in 2021 Karen
spent 20 years, working on 3D

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character animation projects,
including the movies.

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Jurassic world Iron Man, 2 and
Paul and chappie with clients

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such as Disney.
Sony Google and aardman the

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academy award-winning Animation
Studio in this episode Terrence

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and I explore the relationship
between art and Technology.

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Before we dive into the deep
first-hand experience at

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Terrance has with a problem that
older are solving for Creative

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coders and Studios.
We also talked through some

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examples of the Ulta protocol
and action, the big opportunity

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that is the global Art Market
and what keeps Terrence moving

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through the ups and downs of
being a start-up founder.

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All right here on money, never
sleeps.

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Come here, Terrance.
You're our only Irish founder in

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this techstars web three
program.

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I know what?
Like, I was joking about this.

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Like, I like the diversity
picture finds God, that's funny.

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Actually, yes.
Terrence Riley of the Monaghan

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Riley's as we say, right?
But you've been in Bristol now

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for a very long time.
Yeah.

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So but just just thrilled that
when you and I were first

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introduced by Brian Elders back.
In 2021 at the token 2049

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conference in London, right?
And I remember meeting you back

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then and I think it sent you a
message afterwards and it took a

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little while for you to come
back to me.

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But when you did you were like,
okay.

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Here's what we're doing.
Here's what we're up to and I'm

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like, okay, this is pretty
interesting.

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Yeah and things have evolved
things have evolved since then

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haven't they?
Well I don't know if they have

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to be honest.
Should I actually answer this

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question there?
Well, I mean what stood out.

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For me, more at the time because
I'm a, I'm a, you know, maybe

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they have it evolved as much as
I thought they did what stood

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out for me at the time.
Was you okay?

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What I met you now.
I'm like all right Terrence

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seems like he's going to be
someone that is going to figure

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this out right?
And I wasn't quite sure what it

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was back then.
I know it is now.

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Yeah.
But has it evolved that much

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since it's well to be honest,
we're Vision always Was to

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change the art space, but, but
obviously, for Georgia's art for

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me, it's entertainment.
But together the creative,

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right?
Industries walk.

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We will always wanted to do, was
make a community art work, or

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enable people to make art as a
community.

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We were calling it multiplayer
art.

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At the time, I'm obviously, we
knew participation was the key

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thing because we wanted to focus
in on real time or Force.

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Obviously, it's expanding beyond
that, you know?

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Definitely definitely are.
All right, all right.

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We'll listen.
And you thinking about your

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background here, Terrence you've
been involved in nearly 40

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animation projects usually for
like three to six months at a

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time.
Maybe even up to a year since

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2001.
At least that's the number that

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you've got on your LinkedIn
profile right here and that I

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know that with each passing year
technology gets better, right?

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It gives you more options as an
animator.

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But what do you think?
His move faster over the last 20

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years?
Has it been your own creative

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Spirit or technology?
I would have to say.

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Like they're both symbiotic
boss.

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I think that the creative Spirit
might move faster than

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technology.
However, because, you know, you

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see that movies, you know, they
they have imagined flying cars

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ventures in space, you know,
feel world's, I can repay one.

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But, you know day and then the
technologist come along and try

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and make that a reality, whoever
I feel, there's a shift.

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Between who's in charge, who
gets to make those creative

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decisions.
I think the creative technology

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is now our reader leading teams
or definitely in the room so I

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feel it's boast.
They're both working in tandem

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now though.
How do you how do you really

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Chorale that?
How do you really Chorale?

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The creative spirit and say
we're going to put this into a

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pain for three to six months,
we're going to get it to do x

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with the technology that we have
available right now.

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Because this is an animation
project with a budget.

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We don't want to push the boat
out too much.

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In terms of new technologies,
that may not be quite ready and

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may leave us with some
technological debt to solve when

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we get to the post-production
and I'm winging it here.

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Trust me, I'm waiting to hear
with my understanding of how

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this all works, but you know,
how did you ever feel like you

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were in a pen?
And and restrained at all, in

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terms of where you could go with
the idea of Side of this.

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Yeah Hempstead.
Like so that so there's

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limitations and vote and
honestly there is like you think

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you can imagine it is in of the
world but you can't, you can't

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even draw.
You can't even write it.

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Okay, that takes great skill,
but obviously technology takes

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longer.
Well, I'd argue if it does.

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So, but I do think that you need
both.

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If you're gone to innovate, if
you're going to push the

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boundaries, I think maybe it's
more like a chain.

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In business model or a change in
approach that their Studios need

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to take like you seen that
words.

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Yeah, industrial Light and
Magic.

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That's literally what they've
done in the few effects industry

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and that's why they're one of
the best companies Innovative

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companies in the world.
The defend, there was a better

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way of making those movies
instead of practical effects and

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they put money into it you know,
the top the time and they

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figured a way basically make it
happen, I think a lot of Studios

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don't aren't even considered.
During that, I think what I'm

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saying about with the creative
directors, a creative

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technologist coming in and sort
of, having a director role or a

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co-director.
Roll their importance is

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highlighted today in studios
before it wasn't.

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And and without that you cannot
move forward, you know?

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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I was thinking this Star Wars
animation is coming to mind and

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it wasn't even on the animation.
I think it's on the Mandalorian.

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Well, it's been enables now.
Like I think in those cities

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they see the power, like I'd
Capital was the leads person in

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Pixar like he's he basically
imagine Pixar, you know, the he

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was first so he built the engine
bay, see that the tools and then

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incomes and John Lasseter, you
know, to creative Direction.

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And and so I think it's almost
like the lead can be the

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creative technologist.
In some cases.

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So I'm kind there.
So that's my argument for altar,

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like they're actually created
to.

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And I feel that such as a sad
thing to see in the world were

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like, you've got a visual, our
digital creators like non coders

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and they're looking to, I
Technologies as I've known

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creatives and I think that's a
big problem.

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Yeah, no, I hear you, I hear you
now.

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Listen, you told me part of the
back story before that you were

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inspired by a family of
entrepreneurs as you said and

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you To George Baldwin your
co-founder back in 2021.

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Why don't we start a company and
tell me did a lot of thinking

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going to that decision, or was
it just a natural outcome of the

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direction you were headed?
Well, if I'm honest, like a lot

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of the thinking came from me
because of the 20 years I spent

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as an animator, you know, in a
career where you know a lot of

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great stuff happens.
A lot of cool projects I worked

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on.
But behind the scenes there was

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a lot of pain.
If there's a lot of like you No

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rejection fear from working in
that industry.

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See a lot of problems and over.
I've had lots of yeah, bad stuff

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basically happen.
And so I might be thinking was

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we need to fix this when I set
it to George it was like George

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is like yeah whatever like lest,
it doesn't matter if we set up

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shoot you or not, let's just do
it.

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You know, he didn't really care.
Yeah of course we just wanted to

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do it the right way, you know,
from the get-go.

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But yeah, I think that's it.
Like my, my thinking was I did

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set up companies before that, I
had 3D printed company three

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printed Ceramics company, tried
that, and also set up trade up

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to up Studios before.
But again, my thing was I need

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before I go back.
Or if I ever go back to

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animation, I need to fix fix the
problems that I've encountered,

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so it doesn't happen to other
people in the future.

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Yeah, you mentioned some bad
stuff.

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To go would any any examples of
the bad stuff that that you can

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point to?
Yeah.

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It's like egos in, in the
creative industry is ridiculous.

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The expected hours, you know, to
not respond on respect for your

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work, you know what you do.
But particularly so exclusive to

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be a director, you know, like
where it's so hard to get into

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that control seat.
I think when people get their

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the ego kicks in and I've had,
like, directors.

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I've asked for Shaw, Lots to
work on movies on like big

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movies and event directors.
Basically tell me you like

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English fuck do you think you
are like oh yeah but you know

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it's really shitty stuff and I
wasn't the only person like, you

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know.
Yeah certain yeah you know,

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thanks yeah.
Yeah, no.

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I hear that.
You know, all if it's you know,

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shit just being poured down hill
and landing on the next person

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below and that's how it works
that by the time you get to the

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top.
After swimming through that shit

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like Andy Dufresne in Shawshank
Redemption, you know, you kind

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of want to start shoveling some
shit on to other people.

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It's a terrible way that the
world works and it takes someone

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with a really strong personal
Spirit once they get to the top

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to actually be able to treat
people.

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Well yeah, it's not the shit
down here.

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Yeah, there is a lot of people
to do that but I think what's

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get lost gets lost in studios?
Is that young, people have new

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ideas and they should be
utilized more and I felt from

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working with young people.
I could learn so much more, and

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I did actually work with a lot
of younger people than me.

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And I was noticing how they were
making work.

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Either do their animation.
I was like, wow, that's that's

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amazing.
I've always felt old 30.

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Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you how
long ago speaking of of, you

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know, a few years back not that
long ago though Terrence and how

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long ago did you actually meet
George?

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How long have you guys been
working together by five years?

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I Met George.
And I asked him to help me with

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my treated printed ceramics that
assessment.

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Okay, I'm some some coding work
and then we actually applied for

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5G Grant to make to test out
sandbox 5G, sandbox.

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And we, and we picked a or
multiplayer web experience,

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okay?
The actually did produce 50,000

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through this in Bristol with the
university and that was our

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first experience, and then that
busy LED on to alter No.

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Okay, all right.
You reminding me of some of my

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Bristol travels back in the back
in the day with the shout out to

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Dave Henderson.
Not only is he a great fintech

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mind formerly of Hargreaves
Lansdown.

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But he also shares the name with
hero of the American League

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Championship Series in 1986 for
the Boston Red Sox.

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So David Anderson, hit a
game-tying home run to keep the

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stay of the Red Sox away from
elimination, but then we're

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ultimately defeated Next round
the final round called the World

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Series back in 1986 by the New
York Mets but you know that

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that's another story for another
day but he would hang out a lot

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around the engine shed in
Bristol.

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Is that a place that you
frequent?

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00:12:46,700 --> 00:12:48,900
It's tall.
But I want to get in there and I

227
00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:52,900
because of Anna Lisa and I am
actually going to meet her and

228
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:57,700
next urge in a week or two cool
they've invited me to a dinner

229
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,200
but yeah I actually have been
recently networking there

230
00:13:01,300 --> 00:13:03,500
because I I see it as a list.
Okay.

231
00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:05,900
What do you think?
What do you think is kept you

232
00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:08,000
and George together over the
last five years?

233
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,400
That's a good question.
And that's, that's something

234
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,000
just take it.
If I had only exactly as that, I

235
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,800
think it's basic a respect for
each other.

236
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,900
As I said, like, it's about.
I realized that coders are

237
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:26,400
creative to a George's, 100%.
Such a creative mind, as well as

238
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,100
attacker combined his passion
for, like art, you know, he's

239
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:35,700
actually Part College, then went
on to be a creators program, you

240
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:39,000
know.
So he's got a very deep

241
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,700
philosophical mind.
I think that I do like

242
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:47,100
philosophical chats with him
was, he's definitely deeper

243
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:49,100
which deeper than me.
I think.

244
00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:52,200
Yeah, it's respect.
And I think the goal is we want

245
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,900
to change shit out basically,
you know, we're just bored of

246
00:13:56,900 --> 00:13:59,800
the way things are.
And I hear the expression when

247
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,500
somebody said we would ask the
way, It is or that's just the

248
00:14:02,508 --> 00:14:04,700
way it is.
I've heard that too many times.

249
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,800
It's the most dangerous phrase
in the human language, terrible,

250
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,500
right?
And what I'd like to do is dig

251
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:16,200
in to alter a bit and you've
given us a little bit of an

252
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,700
insight to that, but tell us
what is Ulta.

253
00:14:20,300 --> 00:14:22,500
Okay.
Well, our original idea was that

254
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:27,800
we wanted to enable creative
coders and teams to make to make

255
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,600
interactive Arts real-time
interactive art, we seen image.

256
00:14:31,700 --> 00:14:33,500
And videos as entities and we
caught.

257
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:38,400
Hey why can't creative coders be
seen as you know sell their

258
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,200
websites basically but that with
artistic intent boss so what was

259
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:44,700
it?
Then it was yeah it was that was

260
00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:48,200
it it was basically creating
features and tools to enable

261
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,900
creative colors to make
real-time art both.

262
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:55,300
We had this long term vision of
people w, we watch more cool.

263
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:57,700
What's more cool?
So we talked persistent State

264
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:01,500
change, you know, from day one
we wanted to do Pacey.

265
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,000
A player Art which has turned
into Community Arts.

266
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,100
It's just way better.
Way of saying it.

267
00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,600
And what do all that in a
decentralized way is tricky,

268
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:13,400
right?
It's new.

269
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,100
So, so me and George went on a
journey.

270
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:20,600
Figure it out as we go, how to
do, you know, basically

271
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,900
Community Arts in a centralized
way?

272
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:26,000
So we had to start with
publishing tools and and all

273
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000
that sort of stuff that's the
basics, right?

274
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,500
We we actually released the
first three artworks on the web

275
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,300
Sighs.
Yes, we started the build

276
00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:36,500
platform, then profiles, and
then we see in other companies,

277
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:38,400
their Marketplace.
So, we talked, we had to be a

278
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,800
Marketplace.
So we went down the road

279
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,600
developing like toxins and all
this with smart contracts, but

280
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:49,800
it was just it, we've obviously
realize we made some mistakes

281
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,800
doing that because there's other
marketplace with more money and

282
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,400
more trust, so we didn't need to
tell the marketplace.

283
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,800
We also knew we needed to
differentiate ourselves because

284
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,600
competitors Um, up GNR became a
thing.

285
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,600
Now, be my background, obviously
the obvious thing was straight.

286
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,700
Well from day one it was all
about creating 3D interactive

287
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:15,100
for me.
If you ask George would probably

288
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,600
be wouldn't matter if it's 3D or
2D.

289
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,800
But I always loved immersive art
and like, you know, V or a or

290
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,100
and stuff like that and treaty
desktop web.

291
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:29,100
And so is definitely that was on
the cards from day one.

292
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:33,200
Who, what is old now?
So, Basically like we're still

293
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,100
building tools to enable
creators make interactive art

294
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,000
and actually we have built this
already.

295
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,600
We have built as an ohmic
feature that has those artwork

296
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,200
to the elementary change.
So basically, when you meant

297
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,200
something buyers are listed the
Articles and Emma could change.

298
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,300
So the visual or new interactive
controls can appear.

299
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,100
So this is our first step.
This is already built and this

300
00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:01,500
was our first entry into
participation or copra.

301
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,800
Ation for The Collector to take
part in the outcome of an

302
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,500
artwork.
And that was what's done before

303
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:12,000
we started textiles.
Then during textiles, we decided

304
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:17,099
this could be bigger than that
which is already big enough.

305
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,400
So, we were thinking, well,
let's build the protocol and the

306
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,300
protocol.
It's essential to to adding

307
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,700
structure as opposed to a
feature that would be community

308
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,400
art based.
So if you're involving people

309
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,400
you You have to track every
transaction but then allowed him

310
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,400
to jump backwards and forwards.
It has to track things like the

311
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,600
state, persistent State and
changing of the artwork.

312
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,800
And then we didn't that their
properties, though, the artist

313
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,500
might want a color change or add
an object to move or passivity

314
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:55,300
or you know, all different types
of things, right?

315
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:59,400
So it needs to be organized.
So that's why we went to a

316
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,900
protocol and level but Above
that sets the tools and features

317
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,300
that people use.
Yeah, we'll just take it just to

318
00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:09,500
kind of help to bring some of
this to life.

319
00:18:09,700 --> 00:18:11,700
Yeah, you know, I'm thinking
through a scenario where you've

320
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:15,000
got a massive, huge video
billboard up in Times Square.

321
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,200
Yeah, right.
And where it is sponsored by

322
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,700
some digital artist named one,
someone that you think might

323
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:29,000
want to be the artistic mind
behind a huge digital art,

324
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,000
installation in Times Square on
a big video. or name one, trying

325
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,200
to think of one of the artists
like I want to say one of the

326
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,800
artists of Alta and Andy Warhol.
Say, we could go back in time

327
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,800
and we could get Andy Warhol,
right?

328
00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,300
Okay.
It will actually do have one in

329
00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:51,600
mind that you wanted to mention.
Well, I'd like to see someone

330
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,800
like David O'Reilly, David
O'Reilly.

331
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:55,500
Yeah but closing namesake to
you.

332
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:59,100
Yeah, he's okay.
So let's take David O'Reilly

333
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,500
right.
And that there is a huge video

334
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:07,700
billboard up in Times Square and
people there are fans of David

335
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:11,200
O'Reilly who happened to be well
known to others.

336
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,100
Others as well.
So celebrities or sports figures

337
00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:16,600
or whomever.
And they say, listen, we're all

338
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,300
going to take a stab at
contributing to this piece of

339
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,200
art, and we've got 24 hours to
do this and over the course of

340
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,400
these 24 hours that you can with
your entry ticket, which

341
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,900
generally maybe say a 10 ft,
you'd be able to contribute to

342
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:37,200
the artwork and say that we are
going to have this be an overlay

343
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,600
of all of these different types
of icons and figures, and brand

344
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,900
logos and It is that people want
to contribute to this artwork

345
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:47,500
and they say, I'm going to get
one one-hundredth of the square

346
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,000
on this billboard and I'm going
to put my, my little own piece

347
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,900
of art on that or my own script
or my own logo or whatever.

348
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,700
Yeah.
And then that happens over 24

349
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:02,900
hour period and that with each
single change Ulta can track the

350
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:07,000
individual contributor to that
when it happened and have this,

351
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,600
like, you.
And I've talked about before,

352
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,000
Terrence this state machine,
this digital At State machine

353
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,200
that says at this point in time
12 and a half hours into this

354
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,500
24-hour timeline on this exact
date and time that this is what

355
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,200
this piece of art look like.
And that I was the last

356
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,500
contributed to it, right before
the next change.

357
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:27,000
And I want to own that piece of
it.

358
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,500
And I can own that piece of it
because of Ulta having this

359
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:35,400
provenance of the point in time
and what the exact image looked

360
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,900
like at that point and you've
got this tracking and tracing of

361
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,300
Into art through history, which
then takes on, even more of a

362
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:47,500
cultural significance when you
tie that to what's actually

363
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:50,200
happening in the world on that
day, right?

364
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,100
Yeah.
So that's where I my imagination

365
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:53,800
is going with this.
Yes.

366
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:56,400
And for me, it's like it's
Chuck.

367
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,200
Is that jumping back to that
moment in time so it's like it's

368
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,400
not just a list, it's a
timeline.

369
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,000
So, a timeline for a new way to
distribute, a new way to publish

370
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:13,100
a new way to monetize.
That's sort of timeline it's

371
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:16,600
like it's a new business model.
Basically, if you think about it

372
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,500
for for art for story, you know.
Yes, it's real time.

373
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:26,500
And so we sort of see our to
take on a situation where its

374
00:21:26,500 --> 00:21:31,700
audience follow along with the
artist Journey, you know.

375
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:38,100
It's so let me sum it up like
art right now is is released,

376
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,900
there's a release date, you
know, there's a It work and it's

377
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:46,800
released on this desk or in any
theater that entity drop.

378
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,500
So I see that as an event.
Both I see the in the normal

379
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,900
way, an artist works or Studio
works is there's there's events

380
00:21:56,900 --> 00:22:00,600
every day, there's like
Anonymous L dailies and the

381
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,100
enduring between those daily
events, there's like events for

382
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:08,600
you to preview work.
So I saw to see artists events

383
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,000
from the very start and we all
love to see finish work and then

384
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,900
like the making of.
So, when we talk about anchoring

385
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:20,300
art, as it in advance, or really
saying is that there's an

386
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:25,000
untapped Market there around
events and, you know, so you can

387
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,600
revolve people to co-create or
collaborate before an event, it

388
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,600
can connect them together.
If there's a band involved or

389
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,900
brand involve, you know, they're
going to love this right?

390
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,300
You get into the vent, it could
be for surprises.

391
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,900
They can see the There there Co
Creations there.

392
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:49,100
And then, after it's like this
unique thing that they can

393
00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:51,300
remember and be a part of, you
know?

394
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,600
Yeah.
So take a nap them from the

395
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,200
timeline from the creation,
opening up new roles for

396
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:02,900
collectors, for audiences
totally different when you roll

397
00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:06,000
these centralizing art itself, I
suppose, yeah.

398
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:10,100
Like, I one of the one of the
artists that you have featured,

399
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,700
and that I know, Know that
you've shared his work around

400
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:15,200
the bit.
I think it's Owen O'Keefe.

401
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:18,000
Yeah.
And where there is some type of

402
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:23,700
facial scanner that will monitor
your facial movements and will

403
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:27,200
create this stream of generative
art that comes out of your

404
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:32,200
facial movements.
Imagine at a concert at a gig

405
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,800
where you've got these face
scanners happening and obviously

406
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,500
totally Anonymous, but they
where you've got people's

407
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,100
facial.
Years being the input, being the

408
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:47,400
color on the canvas, right?
Yeah.

409
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,500
And say you've got a hundred
people, a thousand people, the

410
00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:53,200
gig, and all their facial
gestures are contributing to

411
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,200
this artwork.
It's kind of like an expression

412
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,300
of joy that music brings.
Yeah.

413
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,600
Right.
And that's a really interesting

414
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,300
piece of art and say it, what?
Whoever it was, you know, for

415
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,200
me, it would be awesome if it
was Jesus.

416
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,700
I talk about you to way too
much.

417
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:10,400
I don't think you two will ever
have this at a gig because

418
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,500
they're getting Old, right?
So maybe Bono's son Eli right

419
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:17,900
from their band.
Inhaler might have this at their

420
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:21,700
gig this expression of Joy which
is this crowd-sourced community

421
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:23,500
art work that's happening at a
gig.

422
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,700
Yeah.
You know all of this stuff and

423
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,700
being able to like we talked
about Express the provenance

424
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:28,600
around.
It's pretty cool.

425
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:30,000
Yeah.
Exactly.

426
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,900
You thinking about the art of
the possible?

427
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,300
No pun intended Terrence.
Yeah tell me what you think

428
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,000
older looks like.
When for example we've got these

429
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,800
virtual art galleries or Like
these virtual community art

430
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,200
installations that we talked
about, you know, virtual Street

431
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,100
murals come to mind as well.
And when all of this gains

432
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,500
critical mass that you know,
kind of asking you this

433
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:58,000
question, is prefaced on this
strong belief that I have that

434
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,900
we're headed towards virtual
societies.

435
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,000
And, you know, while I take
great comfort, in the fact that

436
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,800
the new Apple Vision Pro VR
device looks a lot more like

437
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,400
that headsets from Ready Player
one.

438
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,400
Then the ones that We're used to
from meta and you know, formerly

439
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,900
the Oculus ones.
I know all of this and you know

440
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,700
all of this is a ways off.
We have a lot more work to do in

441
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:25,000
order to make that possible and
that has a lot more to do with

442
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,700
fiber optic cables.
There you go.

443
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,800
So for the crowd parents and
showing off is VR headset and

444
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,400
you know to link back to kind of
where this all came from

445
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,300
Terrence, how do you temper your
own optimism for the virtual

446
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:43,200
world and create value now for
creators In studios, that's not

447
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,400
reliant.
On some big other societal

448
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,700
Tipping Point, like the adoption
of Technology.

449
00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:50,600
How do you do this now?
Yeah.

450
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,100
Okay.
So start with the latter right

451
00:25:54,100 --> 00:26:01,000
now II think it is to, to lower
the barrier entry for creators

452
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:06,400
to creators can fail less.
Basically, so are idea is to

453
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,800
create an experimental and sort
of a playful space on altar too

454
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,200
fast.
Our error Tech and unreleased it

455
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,300
early to them and get their
feedback.

456
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:20,200
But you know, what creators
really want is they want to

457
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,800
creatively challenged themselves
in the work, they do want to do

458
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,700
the salary or the marketing.
So, building a partnership

459
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:31,700
pipeline is very crucial at this
early stage, even if it's just

460
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,600
one and it can be a small
partner Eddie, don't require

461
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,000
that much especially emerging
creators, like creative coders

462
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,800
because There, there's not
really a place that's serving

463
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,300
them.
Very well right now.

464
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,300
So that's where all the steps
in.

465
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,600
So, yes, especially in the WebEx
or the immersive Art Space,

466
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:54,300
particularly.
So that's, that's one thing.

467
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,900
The other thing is to, for the
newcomers to a house with

468
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,200
onboarding is like to Anchor it
around events, like did.

469
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,800
So they've already been before
and if tizen web tree and

470
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,500
they've been making interactive
installations in physical spaces

471
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:14,200
You know, some of them I've been
doing this for years and so many

472
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,100
ways.
You know, if we anchored around

473
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:20,400
events then they can take and
understand that while maybe

474
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,200
they're not really grasping the
current state of entities in the

475
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,000
market day so they can get
behind that.

476
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,300
And everything is just, you
know, basically be as supportive

477
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,400
as possible.
Wait emerging artists, as well

478
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,700
as talking with or getting the
conversation starter and

479
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:40,000
building that trust with the
creative directors.

480
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,600
We have In the entertainment
industry, could be a studio of 1

481
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,500
or 10 or more and give them this
like Plug-In or to set two

482
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,600
guests.
They can get in there, give them

483
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:56,100
turn of route to make money but
yeah I suppose that's more of a

484
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,400
long term to make money.
Yeah.

485
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,300
Well no just it with the studio
side of things.

486
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:06,900
Yeah, no.
I want to make money down could

487
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:10,000
end well, we as you're
explaining this to me and, and

488
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,500
knowing that You know, the team
size and growing that is

489
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:17,300
important.
In that, you know, you as

490
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:22,000
founder CEO or you as co-founder
CEO, your two most important

491
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,300
responsibilities are going to be
or are now sales and

492
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:27,500
fundraising.
Yeah.

493
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,900
Right.
The two most important things

494
00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:34,200
and you know the other things
you mentioned around Innovation

495
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,200
and Community interaction and
just being a good place for

496
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,000
people to create that.
Those are things that were

497
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000
you've got an ecosystem growth
manager that you'd bring in or a

498
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,600
partnership manager that you'd
bring in.

499
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,300
Just looking at the size of the
opportunity here.

500
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:52,700
Terrence obviously, the global
Art Market is huge right?

501
00:28:52,700 --> 00:28:57,400
And its massive and you know
getting altar to market.

502
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,900
Now are you looking at this kind
of daunting lie, or are you

503
00:29:02,908 --> 00:29:05,800
looking at this with a big
hungry, ambitious smile on your

504
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,000
face?
So based on the problems that

505
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,100
I've seen in studio systems in
the studio system, and that

506
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,400
doesn't necessarily mean
replacing.

507
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,400
What is existing?
It's, it's a new opportunity.

508
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,200
I started to see a lot of
problems there, so I suppose, I

509
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,900
would say a big hungry smile on
my face.

510
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,500
However, there's a bit of ways
to go.

511
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:36,300
So that's where I see all the
sort of fitting in it's like,

512
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,400
Getting every like the creative
technology is getting the coders

513
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:43,400
and the animators, and everyone
in the same room.

514
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,800
Basically.
And yeah, I've had that

515
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,900
experience with working on the
Google project with aardman and

516
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,100
literally it was a Google
engineer.

517
00:29:54,100 --> 00:30:00,200
Sitting in the room developing
YouTube 360 for the first time

518
00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:04,700
working with our project.
So I was an animator animating

519
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:06,600
on it and there's a bunch of a
running mate.

520
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,000
There's creative producers.
Aardman jianping cover from

521
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Pixar who don't into your
co-directed by the TV and

522
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,400
Jerry's game.
We were all in the same room.

523
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,000
It was amazing because we were
all getting to be creative and

524
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,700
we were making a 360 interactive
short story.

525
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:29,300
So, wherever you look, did the
animation would trigger, but in

526
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,400
the, in the background, you
would still see other things

527
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,200
were going on.
So it wasn't this overeating

528
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,500
stop.
So yeah yeah, that wasn't she

529
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,400
was 15.
So I really enjoyed that

530
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:46,500
experience and I thought it's
such a shame that creators and

531
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,800
Technologies aren't in the same
room making critical decisions

532
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,300
together.
Yeah, no, I hear you, I hear you

533
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:56,700
and does alter allow them to all
come into the same room

534
00:30:56,700 --> 00:30:59,000
together, obviously.
Right.

535
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,700
If we had our own Studio we
would and that's one of the

536
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:05,200
reasons like like like
physically but obviously firstly

537
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,300
we're enabling Anyone, you know,
to join up.

538
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,800
We didn't want to restrict it to
physical spaces.

539
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,500
However, we'd love that.
That's why.

540
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:18,800
We're we love the team up with
ideal collab and they run basic

541
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,400
Library spaces and any events
organizer.

542
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,400
He's doing creative challenges
or hackathons or, you know,

543
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,100
stuff that would love to partner
up with with them who have

544
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:30,800
physical spaces, you know?
Yeah.

545
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,000
Gotcha.
Okay yeah.

546
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,000
So call out to it to a number of
folks there.

547
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:39,100
To explore some potential
Partnerships there and I know

548
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:40,500
we're helping with a couple of
those.

549
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:45,000
So yeah, listen we've you know
we talked a bit about the future

550
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,100
here but let's really talk about
the future.

551
00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:50,000
Imagine you did have a time
machine and you could go visit

552
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000
your 60 year old self knowing
what you think the path is that

553
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,400
you're going down now for the
next number of years, what would

554
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,200
be the words of wisdom that
you're 60 year?

555
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:05,800
Old self would give to you now?
So thing is I had I had written

556
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,900
dying like, was that he
prophesied?

557
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:12,900
Can't remember, go figure.
But the good thing is that, I

558
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:16,100
think that would make sense.
I think I would say that because

559
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,800
it makes sense to me, because
the journey is everything.

560
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,400
Yeah.
I actually think going through

561
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,800
the Journey is the fun part and
creators would resonate with me

562
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,200
and now.
So we'll coders everyone.

563
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:34,200
So, but in regards to You expose
a personal advice from my six

564
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,300
year old self would be, why are
you not making your your your

565
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:43,000
interactive animated story that
you have an idea for know?

566
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:47,000
And it's based around basically
like the IP Wars.

567
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,400
It's like which I feel is
inevitable in the states, right?

568
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:54,900
We've got media giants, like
Disney Netflix, their own

569
00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:56,900
everything.
It's inevitable.

570
00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,200
They're going to come in and try
and take control of the energy

571
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,500
space.
It's going to ensure with IP

572
00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,700
law.
So the idea would be to make a

573
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:10,300
story around this and can fix
this problem on the way.

574
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:15,900
Make a story, like an animated
story around, the IP Wars.

575
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,300
Yeah.
That's, that's the idea is

576
00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:21,300
following a band of into your
entrepreneurs and creative

577
00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:26,000
coders to try and solve this
solution and save like how to

578
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,400
take control of the NASA and
unity industry.

579
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,100
Because the yeah, there's lots
of problems to be solved but I

580
00:33:31,108 --> 00:33:34,800
think See, if you could get
project like this going and it

581
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,800
get its.
So they deal with a real-time

582
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,900
interactive series is that
you've got it's not all done up

583
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:47,800
front like a pre-rendered thing.
It's like done in sections and

584
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:52,700
what's really interesting for me
is to explore how you can

585
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:57,100
package off and distribute an
interactive series with

586
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:00,800
ownership attached.
And then how dynamically those

587
00:34:01,500 --> 00:34:05,700
Thanks segments, like know the
scenes, the sequences, the

588
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:08,800
beats, the story beats can be
distributed in a way, are not

589
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,199
owned in a way that can then
dynamically change based on

590
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:14,699
human input.
Yeah, they're involved in the

591
00:34:14,707 --> 00:34:15,699
story.
Yeah, yeah.

592
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:19,400
I know, I'm seeing this how this
all could come together.

593
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,600
It's mind-boggling.
It is mind-boggling and you

594
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,699
can't, but help think of the
Neal Stephenson's, not snow

595
00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:30,300
crash.
But the next book in that series

596
00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:32,900
Diamond age.
Age and what were called r,

597
00:34:32,900 --> 00:34:38,400
actives or interactive story and
rack tours which are interactive

598
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:44,900
actors and that where that
acting is just triggered or that

599
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:49,000
by the reader or by the viewer
and says which way do we want

600
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,199
the story to go?
And in this story, this young

601
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:58,600
girl under the age of 10 or
something was more or less, her

602
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,600
upbringing came through an
Active story feature that called

603
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:09,000
this reactive that it's so,
yeah, that was written in 1995

604
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,200
or 96, or something like that.
So you know.

605
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:13,700
Yeah.
Maybe there's a shared bloodline

606
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:17,200
there Terrance 100%.
And the thing is, the reason why

607
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,800
I bring it up is because project
like this is such a big thing.

608
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,100
But what will be wonderful, is
to see a blueprint or like,

609
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:26,300
someone start this off?
Like, Choose Your Own Adventure,

610
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:29,400
is is an early and what talking
about is about it, nearly

611
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
version this, but let's Let's
face it.

612
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,500
It's more than it's more than
just like, you know, type in

613
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:36,200
something.
It is day.

614
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,200
It's like self-aware, like and
like right now and I'll do

615
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,700
anything George spill.
The two were in a tease can

616
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:44,600
actually have relationships with
each other.

617
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,600
You know, like, literally one of
the can detract and you don't

618
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,400
can, you know, grow based on
what happens when someone means

619
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,400
or less, but obviously we're
expanding that into more

620
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,500
property-based I'm definitely
customization definitely I'm

621
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,200
with ya basically my
six-year-old South would say

622
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,200
like why are you not playing
with your tools or yeah.

623
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:17,000
Or get funding to do that and
and believe me, I have tried and

624
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,400
I do feel like actually that
even though Ted is as incredible

625
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,300
as it is.
I think we're in a stage for a

626
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:30,600
content is much needed like
quality content because it is,

627
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,600
if You look at all the VR
headsets in the world today,

628
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:38,100
what content, you know, is there
that it's going to pull people

629
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,500
in to buy those headsets and,
you know, oh yeah.

630
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:45,300
Well, you need the, you need the
operating system where

631
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:48,100
developers are properly
incentivized to build the

632
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:52,100
applications that will be
featured in that, you know, VRA

633
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,900
our experience.
And, you know, and I think we're

634
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:58,800
just a date there to into apples
announcement of their Vision Pro

635
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,000
headset and hopefully, because
we know that The operating

636
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,700
system behind iPhones has been
what has been the real driver of

637
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,200
that business model, not the
phone itself.

638
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,700
The phone itself is critically
important from a usability and

639
00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:13,400
ergonomics and people want that
type of thing.

640
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,300
But listen, we're at the point
of the podcast Terrence where I

641
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:19,900
ask the final question that we
asked everybody on the show.

642
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,000
What's one thing that people
wouldn't expect to know about

643
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,100
you?
This is a good one.

644
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,500
I've been.
Well the thing is I suppose this

645
00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:31,100
law I haven't delivered it very
well.

646
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:37,600
The one thing that people would
expect me and that I'm funny, I

647
00:37:37,607 --> 00:37:40,400
hadn't, are you?
Well, I think so.

648
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,400
However, I laugh during our
conversations, you've got a,

649
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,200
you've got a good sense of
humor.

650
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,800
I'll give you that.
Yeah, or maybe weird sometimes

651
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,700
but the or awkward as well.
Look, the thing is I'm funny but

652
00:37:54,700 --> 00:38:00,900
I'm also very serious.
So quite extreme any sense were

653
00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:03,300
so People don't know how to take
me.

654
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,700
I can be really silly and then
also really serious about silly

655
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:13,000
stuff.
So one thing that I suppose I

656
00:38:13,008 --> 00:38:15,700
was thinking, it's really
important that you do not laugh

657
00:38:15,700 --> 00:38:17,100
at this joke.
Yeah.

658
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,200
Don't one thing I was thinking
was that I suppose let's see.

659
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:24,800
I don't have this mix.
Is this really answering the

660
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,200
question but let me see it
anywhere.

661
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:33,000
So basically, my mum used to act
like random Isis, instead of

662
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,700
reading books to me as a kid.
Okay happened.

663
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,900
She loved to inject Her
Imagination and bringing life to

664
00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:41,500
the teddies and the objects in
the room.

665
00:38:42,100 --> 00:38:47,100
And I suppose that probably was
the driving factor for me to

666
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:50,600
express myself as an animator
and work in industry for 20

667
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,000
years.
But you know, people don't

668
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,600
expect is that how seriously I
take that creativity and that

669
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,100
that silliness as pose like this
because I do it in front of my

670
00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:05,700
own Kids.
Yeah, I can act stuff like that

671
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:07,600
and having a career in animation
people think.

672
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600
Oh, that's a fun thing, you
know, but it's not all fun.

673
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,200
It's not a serious
concentration, it's hard work,

674
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:18,100
hard to master.
So, yeah, and it's, yeah, I

675
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,300
suppose that's the thing.
Like, you know, I love to in

676
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:23,600
Anime Studio act out in front of
the camera.

677
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:25,500
That's you.
So fun, foldable.

678
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:27,100
I'm so you have to be
vulnerable.

679
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,400
You have to be ready for
critique.

680
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,200
Every day, every minute.
So I'm very fun durable but also

681
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:42,300
really stubborn too.
I hear that, yeah, I hear that.

682
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,500
All right, we'll listen, that is
fascinating.

683
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,100
I think we could go on for a
long time at digging into that.

684
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:51,600
And that is the story of diamond
age.

685
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,400
So I'm gonna Park that and I
know that we can go down this

686
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,800
Rabbit Hole another time because
we have plenty more time to do

687
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,100
that but Terrence listen, thank
you, it's been awesome.

688
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:02,800
Awesome.
Having you on the show?

689
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,600
Thank you so much.
And looking forward to talk to

690
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:06,900
you again later on.
Yeah.

691
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:13,100
Thanks very much, please.
That does it for this week,

692
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:14,700
folks.
Thanks Terrence Riley for

693
00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:16,800
opening up his mind, to help us
figure out why he does.

694
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,600
What he does.
You can learn more about

695
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,100
Terrence and Ulta in the show
notes on our website money,

696
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:22,100
never sleeps.
That IE.

697
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:24,600
If you like what you heard,
please leave us a rating and a

698
00:40:24,607 --> 00:40:27,400
review on Apple podcast or
Spotify, is it helps others to

699
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,700
find the show?
Thanks to Kona Brophy from

700
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:32,600
creates, on for mixing and
editing this episode, Conan is

701
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,700
an excellent medium and to get
in touch with when your think

702
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:36,200
about launching your own
podcast.

703
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:39,200
As for me, I'm an early stage
startup investor focused on

704
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,400
where fintech me.
Crypto and crypto meets web 3,

705
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:44,000
my lead the textures web through
accelerator there.

706
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,900
Plenty of links in the show
notes on money, never sleeps

707
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,200
that IE and how to get in touch.
So, don't hesitate to reach out

708
00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:51,600
finally till next time, thanks
for listening.

709
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:52,100
See you