225: California Love | Federico Panisi, Loki.code and Smart Contracts Made Easy

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Hey there, I'm Pete, Townsend in
this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, and at the

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crossover of startups,
Enterprise Finance, technology

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and Life.
As we know it before we get into

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this week's episode, just a
quick heads-up.

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That the eith global Waterloo
hackathon will take place at the

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Lazar Reedus business school and
Waterloo which is a short road

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trip from Toronto.
On June 23rd to the 25th apart

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from building awesome projects
in participating in the prize

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Equal Waterloo will also feature

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miss the chance to build your
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Waterloo, check out the details

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and sign up to be a hacker or a
mentor at Waterloo. .F

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global.com on the show this
week.

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We've got Federico open Easy,
co-founder and CEO of low key

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code, low key code enables
simplified and To of co-creation

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of smart contracts with a
collaborative web app for smart,

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contract, designers and
developers.

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Low key code is also one of the
twelve founding teams forming

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the techstars, web three
accelerator class of 2020.

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Three before co-founding low key
code in July 20, 22, with Pedro

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Wilson Fabio mazzani, Adam
taught Federal and Malachy Lynn

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Nugent.
Federico's time in Academia

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included, a law degree and a PhD
in law and business in his home,

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country of Italy with Stinson
Sydney in Hong Kong before

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rounding things out.
With a master's in legal studies

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at Stanford law school with a
thesis on Smart.

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Contracts Federico is passionate
about web, three smart,

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contracts, and cryptocurrency
Technologies.

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So he's come to the right place
in this episode Federico and I

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Riff on the Serendipity of how
he became an entrepreneur.

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Before we dive into low key code
and their ideal customer

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profile.
We also get into the importance

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of infrastructure and developer
tools and getting us to 1

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billion users of web three
building trust with your

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co-founders and the intersection
of Bitcoin with Dungeons and

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Dragons.
Dragons.

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All right here on money.
Never sleeps.

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How are things in the grand
country of Italy today?

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Anyway, you know, we had the
loss of mr.

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Berlusconi, couple of days ago.
So basically the media is

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talking all only about the, you
know, the family and what's

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going to happen.
After, you know, he's dead and

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things like that.
So everybody is like, literally,

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what's the future of Italy?
Except for that is going to be

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summer.
So Barry, you know, a couple of

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days.
So it's a lovely here, good,

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good and, and how do you feel
Feel about seniority Berlusconi?

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Well, you know I'm sorry for the
loss of a person and it's such a

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controversial profile and
figure.

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Of course, it was part of the
history that we, you know, we

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went through the last 30 years
or so because I am 30 33 years

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old and he started being a
politician.

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When I was war, basically, they
poured the, in the old old, the

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whole Berlusconi era.
I think, you know, many books

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will be written on Game is
family, his mistakes, some good

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things that they did, I guess
so.

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Well let's hope the book that's
written on Federico is all good

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things, I hope.
Yeah, I'm trying to do my best,

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you know, good man.
And when he started, if you were

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4 years old, that's when you
started school.

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Yeah.
So I started school at six so

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and 6 19 1996 because that's
that's the way it works in

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Italy.
And look one of the thing.

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Everybody nowadays talks about
94 1994, which was like, very

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controversial here because that
back then.

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Basically, there was a huge how
to say case?

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Basically politicians used to
get paid for the services that

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they provide and all the
prosecutors clean, the space up

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and the year after he entered,
you know, politics and so

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everybody talks about 1984 1984.
Well, well, that was my that was

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my first year when I went to
Italy in 1994, I was in Venice.

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As you might imagine, I was in
Rome and then I took a boat over

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from brindisi to Corfu in
Greece, okay.

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And so, probably a good week, I
had no money what I was there

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and I was just eating as cheap
as I could, I'd go into a cafe

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or a deli and that there would
be massive sheets of Pizza on

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these huge Square, baking tins.
And it was like, you just ask

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for a piece with the size of
your hands.

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And they would cut that, they
would weigh it, they'd fold it

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in, half, wrap it up and wax
paper and then boom, there you

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go.
You're sorted till like dinner

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time.
Yeah.

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It was it was it was amazing.
But you know the American in

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Italy raving about the pizza
back then you were already were

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still living in the United
States.

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We house while I was living the
us, but I was in Ireland on an

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exchange program.
Okay, so you were more American

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than you are today, but yeah,
very much so very much so So

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that was and you know that
nowadays in Italy we talk about

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slow food versus, you know fast
food.

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Oh yeah.
Invented the fast food and now

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we are going back to the now the
good thing is slow food.

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No.
So have I know and then going

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back to Italy years later where
I just the food was not the

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pasta or the pizza.
It was loads of fish and loads

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of vegetables and I mean I just
that changed, my whole diet was

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going back to Italy and this
Mediterranean diet.

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So it's Yeah, no.
Thank you, Italy.

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And thank you for the RICO.
But I said that's because these

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are the only have to say is that
I support more inter rather than

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the land.
Okay?

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So I feel sorry because Inter
lost against Manchester City.

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I, I didn't know you were an
Interfaith, dude.

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We were, we were supporting
inter in this household.

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Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, because you're not.
Well, my two boys are man united

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fans, and they obviously don't
want to see, man.

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City when anything, and I
couldn't care less, either way

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about man united.
So, I'm like, all right, we'll

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support inter.
And my older Sons football team

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are black and blue.
Their uniform tops are basically

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enter, so we're like, we're
going for it.

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And that was, yeah, that was
sad.

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So, my sympathies to you is a
tried and true blue and black in

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the blood inter fan Federico.
Well, but we played well, did

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you did you did will give you
that.

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But listen in prepping for this
chat, I went back and had a look

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again at your background and the
14 years in Academia.

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Kind of stood out to me again
that before you decided to

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become a start-up founder, that
was a long time.

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How did that happen?
What was it?

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Was it something you think
inside you, that was pushing you

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towards this the whole time, or
was it just serendipitous

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meeting of the guys?
Yeah, so that's that's a great

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question.
That brings me brings up a lot

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of memories.
Actually, as you said, I had the

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very traditional pathway since
it was 19.

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My background is Law and then I
was not after after the law

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school, I wanted to dig more.
And so I started this PhD and

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this is the chance to basically
leave in four continents during

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my PhD.
So that was already quite kind

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of shocking experience.
And then after my PhD, I went as

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you know, to the Stanford Law
school, and I remember three

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things.
The first one is that I did a

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lot of research regarding smart
contracts and cryptocurrency

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Technologies.
And that was probably, the thing

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that prepared, what would be
next?

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The second thing that happened
and that I remember quite

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clearly is that I took a class,
which is called intrapreneurial

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thought leadership, and it was a
very, you know, easy class

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because it was like one credit,
so it's not too much.

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Work, but it wasn't outstanding
class because there were all

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these, you know, entrepreneurs
especially based in Silicon

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Valley coming and telling their
experience.

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And I remember that one of the
questions that came up the most

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was, when was The Red Pill
moment for you.

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So if you recall Matrix, you
know, there's a scene blue pill

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Brad Pitt, right?
And so the kind of quest you

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know, stuck in my mind you know
the red team already more.

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Oh yeah, I've been popping red
pills for years.

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Yeah, right there.
Because I'm not quite a big fan

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of the Matrix, so that was like,
and so, did I decide to become a

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Founder?
I think it's just happened.

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So, basically, the way it
happened is, I went online, and

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I found these guys that were
building this thing, that will

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become Loki.
And, you know, when that thing

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happened, I was like, well
probably, this is my Morpheus

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blue pill or red, teal and back
then, I also remember the fact

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that, you know, I was I, as you
said, 14 years off, I can, I

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mean, experience means that I
basically explored anything

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regarding the law, the economics
and eventually some things about

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technology.
And so at some point I was like

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well this is not the time
probably to study things anymore

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but to try to make them you know
to be part of the Innovation

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that was going on and that is
still going on and and probably

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the fact that it was in
California where everything is

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so pragmatic, you know.
No, probably even more than

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other areas in the United States
just guessing but you know, that

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kind of culture affected my
mind.

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And so when all these things
happen together, I said, yes,

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this is my chance and I want to
to at least to try to see where

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this thing could lead me and you
know nowadays in hinge side I

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would say that it was great to
make that decision to take the

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red pill you know to be
unplugged.

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Yeah.
Why would like what was there a

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moment?
Were you kind of saw the cat

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walking backwards that?
Yeah.

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I mean, like more like in The
Matrix that was the glitch in

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The Matrix that that said, hey,
this is this is it, I know you

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mentioned connecting with the
other four, guys, but was the

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yeah, the scene for us on what
that looked like.

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Yeah.
So basically, that was the ear

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of the pandemic in which as
everybody, you know, I was

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already under the stress and the
pandemic and then after the

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first lockdown in Italy and The
first look down into it was

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pretty heavy.
We were hit by the pandemic and

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things like that after the verb.
The first lockdown 1111 evening,

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my mom tells you, I don't want
to see you study more, just go

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out for riding a bike, right?
I was riding my bike and a car

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hit me.
And I had this very severe

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accident.
I broke off of my mouth.

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I had a very severe.
Wow.

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Back then, I didn't know Adam
and Maliki and Fabio because

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the, the fact happened a couple
of well six months, L.

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So basically when I got back
after this concussion and I was

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able to you know go back to
Stanford and the world my

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studies and finish.
Basically what would I was

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doing?
I'm like okay, I went through

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your old, he's 14 years of
excitement as well as not

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complete satisfaction.
One thing Danny, you know, the

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thing that life can really
disappear in one second and then

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Adam and the others with like
this probably, you know.

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That's what we calling.
And when that fact happened

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something started in my mind,
the decision process took some

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months just because we met in a
very strange way.

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And so it took me, you know,
some months just to say, okay is

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this something that really that
is of your interest or is it,

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you know, something that can
really Flow by your side and at

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the end of the day?
It's a matter of choice when

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this happens sometimes you Beat
them other times you do.

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I think that all those years of
academic experience like

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prepared me to that moment and
and when that happened I just

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said, yeah, it's my chance.
Okay.

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Alright.
It literally took a concussion.

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Yes.
Yes literally, yeah, that's a

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minute I had to reset my brains
guide, dog.

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And well, I yes I know, stranger
things have happened.

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There's other stories for other
days around that Federico for me

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from my perspective.
Of.

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But you know, I feel that I
definitely feel that.

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How did you guys get together,
right?

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00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,300
Yeah, you Pedro Wilson Fabio
Mizani, Adam taught vigil,

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Malachy Lynn Nugent, a bunch of
wonderfully.

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Good names there.
Yeah so this is another great

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00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:50,600
story.
So as I said I was at Stanford

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at the law school and I was
researching smart contracts.

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Basically the research question
that I had I was yeah, working

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with was okay.
So Our contracts are out there.

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Everybody says, they're there
are gonna change the legal

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industry in the coming years.
What tools does a lawyer have

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nowadays at his or her disposal
to create a smart contract.

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And so I engage myself in a very
deep and political research

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regarding all the platforms that
were out there that try to

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simplify the process.
And one day I was still in this

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research, mood think it was a
Thursday evening and so I said,

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okay let's go on.
Read it, you know, and just let

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us waste them some time.
But of course, Us one of the

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subreddits that I was in ready
with this smart contract,

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celebrate it.
And I immediately see this

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poster of the, you know.
So you don't him saying writing,

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we are building a visual
programming tool that could help

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people to create smart contracts
on their own and blah blah blah.

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And I was like oh nice lets you
know try to engage with this

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00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:04,700
post and I replied and I said
can we I mean I'm doing

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research, I'm researching these
things actually.

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00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,200
So if you want, let's make a
call.

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00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:12,500
That was the first moment in
which I met virtually Adam

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00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:15,600
Maliki and Fabio the thing that
they would there was another

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Italian working on this thing.
I was like, this is even more

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thing, right?
And then Adam and Malachy told

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me, well, where you been?
I mean, if you're still at

254
00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:28,800
Stanford, we can meet because we
are based in the Bay Area and I

255
00:14:28,808 --> 00:14:32,100
think that the rest was made
really in front of a very good

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00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:35,100
pizza.
In Palo Alto, good follow-up,

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the pizzeria, you know, pizza
place.

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And I think that I had to at
least break the ice because, you

259
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,100
know, going back to was a
decision.

260
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It was more something that
occurred randomly.

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Of course.
It took me, it took us some time

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to say okay are you a person I
want to engage with the with

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00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:01,500
this thing for for some time and
that the best way is just to sit

264
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down in front of some good food
in a good environment and to

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talk and basically to bring
everything That at some point we

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realized that part of the team
was had to be empowered and

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Maliki had this friend that met
online sometime before and

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that's the way we met they do.
And basically when we were

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deciding, when we were about to
decide, you know, she'll we

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00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,800
include him in the co-founding
team or not.

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We asked Malachy.
Do you trust this guy?

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And he said yes.
So if you trust him, we trust

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00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,700
you.
And let's, let's get these.

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Started.
So the cool thing as you mention

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is the fact that the team was
very distributed.

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And basically there is one
Italian right now living in

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00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,300
Italy and other Italian living
in Manchester UK, 1 is half

278
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:56,700
American half Hungarian one is
half, Irish half Chinese and the

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00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,500
Pedro is Brazilian.
So we literally have many, you

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00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:02,900
know.
Cultures yeah.

281
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:07,400
Is and back points of view point
of view as well Endo, you

282
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,300
different lives.
Which makes our theme.

283
00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:12,900
I think very, very unique on
this side.

284
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,400
Yeah, yeah, I like that.
I like that a lot.

285
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:19,900
Interesting that with Pedro
coming into the mix and that

286
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:23,900
being based on trust and that
you are now building something

287
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,900
that can rely on a significant
degree of trustless, right?

288
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:30,800
So that is a nice little
Paradox.

289
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,200
But how did you come up with a
name Loki code?

290
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,100
I think you've told me this
before but remind me.

291
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:40,500
Yeah, so when I met Adam, I'm
Fabio and Malachy.

292
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:44,300
They were already working on
this thing and they decided to

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call it low-key and to add the
word code just to, let's say

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differentiated from the Marvel
style.

295
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,200
You know, the the cinema
industry.

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00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,800
Yes, and Loki comes from, I
mean, is the name of this

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00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,800
Divinity?
Nordic Divinity that Masters.

298
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:06,000
The shape-shifting capacity
ability especially when it comes

299
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,300
to language and back then.
Really the starting idea was,

300
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:16,500
let's create a visual language
that can shape-shift from

301
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,000
solidity to another programming
language and in the long-term

302
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:25,700
and, you know, something that
stays sort of sort of apple the

303
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:29,400
core programming language.
And so they, I mean, they picked

304
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,300
his name and the two things I
did watch some Marvel movies

305
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,100
where he was in and I did like
the transitioning from being a

306
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:40,700
pure.
Like shadowy character to

307
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,500
someone that is more protective
and helpful and a good

308
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:45,800
character.
The end of the day, this I get

309
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,300
it, I get it.
It's such a great name and it's

310
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:50,300
you gotta live up to it now,
right?

311
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:51,900
So yeah.
We're it's it.

312
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:53,200
No.
But it makes so much sense the

313
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,700
way that you pull this together
for that but what I want to dig

314
00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:00,800
in now to Loki code a bit in
terms of what it is and your

315
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,900
ideal customer.
Yeah, that will drive low key

316
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:07,000
code into the market and drive
them low key code MVP into the

317
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,600
market.
You tell us a bit about that.

318
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,300
Yeah, yeah.
So as of now, Loki code is wants

319
00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:17,500
to be a collaborative web
application that helps teams to

320
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:21,000
collaborate when building smart
contracts and so create smart

321
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,500
contracts together, better
faster and in a safe

322
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:28,400
environment.
And the reason is because I

323
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,200
mean, we envisioned, the fact
that the smart contract

324
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,700
development especially in the
coming years will not be

325
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,000
something made by solo
developers.

326
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,300
I mean might Be.
But when it comes to bigger,

327
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:44,100
things teams are necessary.
And we also Envision that the

328
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:47,800
experience that we are having in
our team is going to be

329
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,100
replicated somehow I'm, you
know, I have a legal background

330
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:55,200
Fabio, as a ui/ux background,
there are three software

331
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,100
Engineers, one more on sale.
So there are different, you

332
00:18:58,108 --> 00:19:01,800
know, capacities and abilities.
And I and we think we think that

333
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,500
this is going to be the future
when it comes to create, you

334
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:10,000
know, complex, software things
like smart Trucks in terms of,

335
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:15,900
let's say audience and and ideal
Persona, it had two products and

336
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:20,300
product managers as the people
that will lead, the smart

337
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,800
contract designing process and
where we can really step in

338
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,200
providing them a platform that
relies on visual communication

339
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,000
tools.
So that the idea conception can

340
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,100
be built in a way that can be
easily conveyed to the

341
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:37,700
developers and developers can
execute them.

342
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,900
And You know, these
communication flows can start so

343
00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:46,900
that the final output aligns
with the initial idea and

344
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,500
hopefully is Bagless and for
sure is audited and the safe and

345
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:55,600
secure when it when he's
deployed in on the blockchain.

346
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,300
So to wrap it up, I would say,
yeah, smart controller

347
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:05,300
development teams that are
working as smart contract

348
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:08,600
service providers in terms of
consultancy or things like that.

349
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,700
Yeah or blockchain agencies,
digital agencies for sure.

350
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800
Something that we have been
realizing is the fact that

351
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,500
nowadays, it's pretty much like
you know the web as it used to

352
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,500
be in the early 90s.
So there is something that is

353
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:27,800
very new out there and we want
to address these people giving

354
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,500
them the tools that are
necessary to build something

355
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,200
that is new is complex.
Yeah.

356
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,600
That they can experiment prefer
you use to create prototypes.

357
00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:42,300
It's basically we really want to
open up the smart contract

358
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:47,600
development from a conception to
deployment to the mass of people

359
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,700
that is out there that I'm sure
I'm sure that that has heard

360
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,400
this crypto think the real thing
going on but still that doesn't

361
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,800
have the tools necessary to
access the space.

362
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,900
Yeah, yeah and you get you give
me a great analogy in some of

363
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:06,100
the chats that we've been on
before Federico on what it was

364
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:09,900
like in the 90s back in 1994.
1993 92.

365
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:12,600
Where if you wanted to have a
website, you had it.

366
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,800
You had to be able to code in
HTML and now we've got website

367
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,800
in a box, we've got WordPress,
we've got Wicks, we've got

368
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,900
Squarespace, these things that
are just so easy to use is that

369
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:27,300
the direction you're going with
low key code, internet, smart

370
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:28,900
contracts.
Yeah, definitely.

371
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:33,300
It's, we are making things that
are very complex, much more

372
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:36,400
accessible.
Pretty much as you mentioned

373
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,900
WordPress and shopping, Why
webflow you know all these local

374
00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:47,900
no code tools it for the web
12.0 whatever.

375
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:52,500
At the end of the day web 3 is
the iteration of the web and it

376
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:56,300
might be a new thing out there.
Smart contract, decentralized

377
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:59,900
application might be a New
Concept, but in my opinion, the

378
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:03,000
problems at the core of the
development process.

379
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:08,600
You know, follow certain pattern
and the partner comes comes from

380
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,800
a need that is out there and we
want to Target these needs,

381
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,700
simplify the access simplify the
experience.

382
00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:20,800
And I'm sure of that when we get
at that point that point the,

383
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:26,000
the same creativity and
explosion of whatever as it as

384
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,300
it happened, you know, the
Cade's would say 20 years ago or

385
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:33,300
so it will happen again.
It makes me think of the chat

386
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:36,500
that I With, with Sam Williams,
who is one of the cofounders of

387
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,300
our.
We've, and he, and I were

388
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:40,500
chatting about web three in
particular.

389
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:45,000
And I said, listen, I'm thinking
about after a chat with somebody

390
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,900
else.
Expanding my view around this, a

391
00:22:46,908 --> 00:22:51,200
bit too, you know, VR and and
things like that.

392
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,400
He's like Pete stop, he's like
just just stop.

393
00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,600
He said web 30 is the protocol
ization of web services or

394
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,300
turning web services into
protocols, right?

395
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:08,900
You Back to the 90s again, with
HTTP and FTP and IP and all of

396
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:12,100
that being, you know, the
protocols that were free and

397
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:13,800
open source for people to use
and build on.

398
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,800
Yep, he said, imagine protocols
replacing web services, today,

399
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,500
Ecommerce, whether that be
retail or, you know, business

400
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:26,000
level with Shopify like you
mentioned and that we're all of

401
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,700
these are just open source,
protocols driven by smart

402
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:31,300
contracts, that will drive the
web.

403
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,600
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
That That's where we are headed,

404
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,400
good thinking of the future as
well, that the key part of our

405
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,800
web three thesis that back, how
we made our decisions on the

406
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,500
teams that we invested in with
this techstars went through

407
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:47,700
program Federico.
It was driven by the lack of

408
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,200
infrastructure that we saw on
web three after going through

409
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,800
the program last year with a
class of 22.

410
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:55,500
And now the big number that
people have been throwing out

411
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,000
there is getting to 1 billion
users of web 30 and if you think

412
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,200
about what that really means,
we've got 15 to 20 to 40

413
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,700
million.
Ian monthly active users of

414
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,300
crypto right now, of n FTS in
total, right?

415
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:13,000
And that's a very small number
to get to 1 billion.

416
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,800
And there is in terms of daily
active users of something like

417
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,600
Google that's 3.5 billion,
right?

418
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,100
So we got it.
We're thinking in those

419
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,700
territories in order to get to 1
billion users and the

420
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:30,900
trajectories are on that track
in terms of comparing to how the

421
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,000
internet grew in the 90s and
looking at how But three is

422
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000
grown over the last seven,
eight, ten years.

423
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:43,100
So, to get to 1 billion users of
web 30, I think it was a 16z, or

424
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:45,500
perhaps it might have been Brian
Armstrong from coinbase.

425
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:48,200
You said, well, we're really
going to need another three to

426
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,800
four million developers and
there's somewhere between, I

427
00:24:51,808 --> 00:24:54,500
don't know, a couple hundred
thousand, maybe Maximilian

428
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:57,600
developers right now and web
three, but it's more in the low

429
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,400
hundreds of thousands depending
upon that the day.

430
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,400
You know, there's so much to
build Old right now.

431
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,500
There's highways, there's roads.
There's on-ramps there to offer

432
00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:09,900
a roundabout.
You name it any analogy, we can

433
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:11,600
use here to building
infrastructure.

434
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,700
How do you think we get there?
What is going to be the path to

435
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:16,000
get to 1 billion?
Uses a web 3?

436
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000
I know this is a big question,
but ya know, it's a big question

437
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,600
and I do like the analogy and,
you know, to elaborate on that a

438
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,900
little bit further, you know, to
build highways to be ill off.

439
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,800
Ramps, from Rams, whatever you
also need the tools like

440
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:35,200
excavators tubes.
What's the name brains?

441
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:36,400
You know, cranes?
Yep.

442
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,800
Things you read all these
jackhammers.

443
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:39,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

444
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,100
You need all these tools that
are necessary in order to get to

445
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:46,000
the final thing, which is, you
know, at the end of the day,

446
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,500
what we see what we use.
And when it's out there, we say,

447
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:52,900
well, you know, we everybody
uses the highways nowadays.

448
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,200
If, if you look backward and you
try to put yourself in the shoes

449
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,500
of those people that came out,
you know, came with these ideas

450
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:06,500
and they had to make Something
that was out of any possibility,

451
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:07,500
probably.
I don't know.

452
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:12,500
Took some time and it took a lot
of effort in order to build

453
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:16,000
everything that was necessary to
build something that at the end

454
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,600
of the day, was the final
output.

455
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,700
And I think that we are kind of
there in in the web three or

456
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:23,500
let's say in the web Evolution
today.

457
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,400
The other thing that I mean I
did like the fact that you

458
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,900
mention Brian Armstrong, saying
that, and I want also to add the

459
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:37,400
fact that In my opinion it is
not just about developers

460
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:43,900
developing it is also designers
meaning okay I want to use this

461
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:48,800
technology in this specific
sector for this specific purpose

462
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:55,100
and I need a way to work with
you guys so that our idea can be

463
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:59,600
implemented and of course the
more we can simplify the ways

464
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,100
these two areas these two word
words.

465
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:05,500
Communicate with We are
literally creating a bridge,

466
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,300
right?
Wait somewhere.

467
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:13,100
Let's say the raw materials or
the workforce is and that can

468
00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:16,700
meet the other people on the
other side of the river.

469
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,500
And when people and minds and
energies, and when there is a

470
00:27:20,508 --> 00:27:24,500
meeting of something, then there
is always something else coming

471
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,300
out there.
And yeah, that's the moment

472
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:29,600
where we are right now.
So we definitely need tooling

473
00:27:29,700 --> 00:27:32,600
pretty much as it was.
Let's say for Bitcoin, you know,

474
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,100
since you mentioned Right answer
on back.

475
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:40,400
Then if you ask me in 20 2010,
how to buy Bitcoin or to trade

476
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,500
Bitcoin safely, I was not able
to give you a straightforward

477
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:48,000
answer and wallets everything
that we know about crypto

478
00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:52,400
developed and nowadays, crypto
as we say, is here to stay.

479
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:55,100
Yeah, it is.
It is you can't put it back in

480
00:27:55,100 --> 00:28:00,000
the Box.
No, or wait because you see that

481
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,400
island is really moving forward
and very well.

482
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,400
So, So, maybe not Boston, but
Dublin would be, yeah.

483
00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:11,400
Yeah, Boston has those original
Roots back to the revolution,

484
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:15,900
so, you know, there's some good
blockchain mines in Boston but

485
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,900
I'm Brad Armstrong and
interestingly enough, this was

486
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:23,300
on a podcast that I heard him
speaking on, he said that The

487
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,500
way that he stays close to where
things are going with coinbase

488
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:31,600
strategically, is that he still
has and joins the product

489
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,300
meetings, right?
And to understand what the

490
00:28:35,300 --> 00:28:37,800
customer wants.
Because those are the folks that

491
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,100
are out there that are speaking
to customers.

492
00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:42,200
Say, what is the next big
feature?

493
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,500
What is the next big product
that we need to build?

494
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,100
And that he was originally a
developer that was his thing and

495
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:51,000
now he's clearly obviously
stepped away from that he needs

496
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,500
to and he you know, was handed
the keys over Long time ago, but

497
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:57,600
still gets involved in the
product discussion, so we can

498
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,500
had his little piece in this
little two cents to this and

499
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,400
with that analogy, that you made
about building the bridge and

500
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,400
that were compared to some of
those bridges out there that we

501
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,800
know well that are token
Bridges, right?

502
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,900
And that we're with token
Bridges, someone gets tied to

503
00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:14,400
one side of the bridge and left
there.

504
00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:18,000
And you create a duplicate image
of yourself and that you send it

505
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,100
across the bridge, the bridge
that you guys are building.

506
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,300
This is actually sending people
over the bridge.

507
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,300
Yeah.
So yeah, it's good.

508
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:28,900
It's good stuff when you know
back to your 14 years and and

509
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:33,700
jumping right into this Federico
that building a start-up can be

510
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:35,400
sorry.
It's not can be building a

511
00:29:35,408 --> 00:29:38,200
start-up, he's incredibly
challenging, right?

512
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,200
But it can also be very
rewarding.

513
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,400
Yeah, part question.
What do you think has been the

514
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,400
most challenging and what do you
think has been the most

515
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,400
rewarding so far?
It's early days?

516
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:53,500
Yeah, I mean regarding the most
challenging I would say that, In

517
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:56,100
our experiment, my experience in
our experience.

518
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,000
So think about Five Guys
different stories, different

519
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,400
backgrounds, they don't know
each other and they find a

520
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,500
common floor, you know?
With this idea of okay, let's

521
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:11,000
try to build something that
makes Smart contracts, easy.

522
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:14,100
Okay.
Just to make it simple the most

523
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:19,200
challenging part for, I think,
for each of us was get to build

524
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,500
that level of trust and that
toolkit journey of Knowing each

525
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:27,800
other and solving issues
literally building the team

526
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:31,200
which is not just meeting and
say, hey yes I'm interested in

527
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,300
this thing and you are
interested in the same thing.

528
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:36,500
It was building the level of
trust that we can say.

529
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:41,300
Okay.
Whatever happens, we have the

530
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:46,700
freedom to sit down and talk to
each other freely and solve the

531
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:49,900
problem and move on and that
takes some time.

532
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:53,600
Because in our case, everybody
started with his own idea,

533
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:56,600
right?
And you know at the end of the

534
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,700
day as you know at the very
beginning of a start-up Journey

535
00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:04,100
team is what really matters.
The rest somehow comes after at

536
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:07,700
least this is what I'm what I'm
experiencing I hear you.

537
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,400
I hear you there's a couple
different ways you can poke at

538
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,200
this and saying that sometimes
what you see with a start-up is

539
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,000
that you've got a commercial
founder or a technical founder

540
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,500
that then looks for its
counterpart right?

541
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:22,900
Or looks for their counterpart,
whether that is a commercial

542
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:26,000
founder looking for technical
co-founder or a technical

543
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,100
founder looking for a
commercial.

544
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:28,100
Co-founder.
Yeah.

545
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:31,700
That's there was, there was a
three of them in and then there

546
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:35,200
was you.
And then there was Pedro And

547
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:40,100
that is a unique way to bring a
team together, right?

548
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:41,900
Yeah.
And and let me phrase it this

549
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:43,900
way.
The most challenging thing was

550
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:50,000
moving the startup from being
transactional to being

551
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,600
relational, which is not taking
the transactional piece out of

552
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,700
the equation but empowering that
thing.

553
00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:01,700
And when it comes down to that
level, you can really go through

554
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:07,200
all the other in minor child.
Changes that can can occur

555
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,700
throughout the journey.
Yeah, yeah.

556
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,700
So transactional versus
relational meaning kind of that,

557
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,200
okay.
You do for me and I do for you

558
00:32:16,500 --> 00:32:19,300
and we're kind of testing each
other out to.

559
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:22,500
Okay, we now have this trust and
we have this Common Ground, we

560
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,400
can move forward on these
relationships, which doesn't

561
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,800
mean that we do not stay
accountable on each other tasks

562
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,500
and think that it's all there.
But it's also you know, as you I

563
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,600
said, I trust you and I know you
know this also speeds up the

564
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,700
process and the roadmap.
So yeah even show at the end of

565
00:32:43,708 --> 00:32:47,200
the day but it's a work that you
have to do to get there.

566
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:50,100
It doesn't.
I mean it might be but in our in

567
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:53,800
our case I can't say that it's
like dating, right?

568
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:56,900
You fall in love, then you need
to work the relational.

569
00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:01,400
You do do ya wanna get married
you so I know.

570
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,700
Yeah, I know, clearly get that
Federico on the On the

571
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:06,500
challenging side.
But what has been the most

572
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:07,800
rewarding?
Yeah.

573
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,000
So the most sincere answer that
I have is getting into textures

574
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,300
web 3, that's the warning.
No, but you that's not just for

575
00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:22,700
saying but you know consider at
least in my my experience going

576
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,000
after all the things that we
discussed earlier about you know

577
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000
the personal life and things
like that.

578
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,900
The fact that you can you know,
finally find someone that trust

579
00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:37,400
what you're doing.
That shares a vision and that

580
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,000
you can start a relationship and
the dialogue and be corrected,

581
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,800
and be mentored.
You know, this is probably the

582
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,700
most rewarding experience.
It's also, you know, something

583
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,900
that happens after a lot of
sweat, a lot of, you know,

584
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:54,400
nights and days in which you
have to, you know, try to shape

585
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,700
things in a way that can be
easily communicating and things

586
00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,500
like that.
And, you know, going back to the

587
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,600
dating analogy, it's like when
you say, well, you know, I'd

588
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,500
like to have a girlfriend.
And then you need to find a

589
00:34:05,508 --> 00:34:08,300
girlfriend.
And so you go out and find that

590
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:11,800
that that my case that
girlfriend and boyfriend

591
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,199
whatever.
And and and it's the start of

592
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,400
the new Journey.
So that was for sure the most

593
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,699
rewarding and the the program
whereas been great so far.

594
00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:23,300
So I can tell you that it was
not just the most rewarding

595
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:26,000
thing when textures but what
pre-selected us?

596
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,100
But it is for sure.
The most rewarding thing today

597
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,699
because of all the things that
have been happening you know so

598
00:34:32,699 --> 00:34:36,699
far awesome.
I The Federico, it's very kind

599
00:34:36,699 --> 00:34:38,900
of you to share that, so I
appreciate that.

600
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:43,600
Thinking about your past as
well, one more time, keep

601
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,699
digging back into.
It was one thing that I found

602
00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:49,900
that really jumped out at me
which was and it was in Italian

603
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:52,300
and it was the title of
something that you wrote,

604
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:55,400
perhaps a research paper.
And the three words that stuck

605
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,400
out that were in English, in the
title of that research paper

606
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,400
that were not an Italian.
We're Dungeons and Dragons in

607
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,800
Bitcoin.
Yeah.

608
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,200
What is that?
This is a funny story.

609
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,000
I mean, so doing my PhD.
I spent many summers in Chicago

610
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:16,900
researching stuff and one summer
I was with this friend of mine

611
00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:19,600
that was super into games like
video games.

612
00:35:19,900 --> 00:35:23,200
Right.
And I remember him talking about

613
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,600
word or of Warcraft and farming
and all this and this was way

614
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,400
before the nft summer and so I
was super amazed and I got into

615
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:37,000
the virtual world and To, you
know, explore this rabbit hole

616
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:42,100
and then basically the content
of the post is I see a sort of

617
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:46,500
line of evolution between the
virtual words as they used to be

618
00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:48,700
in the very early days.
Dungeons and Dragons, is

619
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:52,900
basically the very core
beginning of any kind of role

620
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:58,400
play offline or online, right?
And so I was, I just draw this

621
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,300
line between what the beard
virtual words used to be before

622
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:06,200
the internet.
Just in our minds and the

623
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,200
virtualization of the word that
we crypto and an NST course

624
00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:14,200
later court.
And I'll tell you something,

625
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,200
this was a medium post initially
and then it happened that a

626
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,300
consultancy company.
A little consultancy company

627
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:26,800
based in Milan said, can you
translate this thing in English?

628
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,900
Because we want to post it on
our Journal, our yeah, monthly

629
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:32,400
journal and I said yes no
problem.

630
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:36,700
And then professor Sir, an
Italian Professor came to me and

631
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:40,400
said, look, this is interesting
and that was the period of the

632
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,700
nft booming and you know, things
like that.

633
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,700
This is interesting.
Do you want to partake in a one

634
00:36:46,700 --> 00:36:50,100
of the most important industrial
law conferences in Italy?

635
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:51,800
Because this is a very
interesting piece.

636
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,600
And so I did.
And that Medium post, was

637
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,600
published on the Journal of this
conference, which was quite

638
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,000
precise, I discovered to be
quite prestigious because my

639
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,800
background is more Banking and
Financial very hard thing.

640
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:09,300
And and and that was another,
you know, as I said sign or

641
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:12,500
Preparation of the fact that I
wasn't the right track, it was a

642
00:37:12,508 --> 00:37:15,100
huge Discovery.
Did you read Ready Player?

643
00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:17,300
One play.
What?

644
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,600
What did you read?
The book, Ready Player One?

645
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,300
Well no!
Never okay, okay sure this was

646
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:26,100
this was this is a bit of
serendipity because whether it

647
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:29,100
was through that book or whether
it was through something related

648
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:33,900
to an article related to the
book, it pointed out and some my

649
00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:35,300
own thoughts.
It's developed around this as

650
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:36,800
well.
Is that, before Dungeons &

651
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,500
Dragons, there was The Hobbit
right in there was tolki and the

652
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:43,200
whole world that he built the
language that he built, the

653
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,200
Lord, the mythology, all of this
around The Hobbit and Lord of

654
00:37:46,207 --> 00:37:51,000
the Rings and that all of the
fans of that wanted to bring it

655
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,300
to life.
And that's where dungeons

656
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:56,500
dragons came from, right, was
this whole Tolkien ecosystem in

657
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,600
universe and world and people
wanting to do this and remember

658
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,600
with Dungeons and Dragons, you
had inventory, you had a bag of

659
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,600
gear.
You had magic potions, you had

660
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,600
money, you had swords, you had
all this stuff.

661
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,800
And then those that were big
fans of this were drove.

662
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,700
The first video game Evolution,
Right and started to get some of

663
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:20,100
these things into place in the
Video Game World, starting with

664
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:25,400
just text based, bulletin board
games in the late 80s, and I

665
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,700
used to play some of those back,
the day in the dial-up internet,

666
00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:33,200
with Modem, with it may thing
that was going off and I forget

667
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,900
one of the games, but It was a
first almost truly animated when

668
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,400
we call Dragon's Lair, dragon,
slayer, or something like that,

669
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400
and then you get into the 2000s,
the technology improves World of

670
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,600
Warcraft comes along.
Vitalik has been quoted as

671
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,600
saying vitalik butyrin.
The co-founder of aetherium

672
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,600
said, listen, My World of
Warcraft account, got nerfed.

673
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:56,500
And I was so upset.
I cried myself to sleep and I

674
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:59,300
was sick of all these
centralized controllers, a video

675
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:01,300
games and of this whole
ecosystem.

676
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,800
And that's why he developed a
theory, mmm, in the meantime, he

677
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,800
had.
Yeah, Bitcoin, you know,

678
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,200
creation that happened and it
wasn't just a Toshi.

679
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,700
It was it to me you know,
clearly going to be a bunch of

680
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:13,800
individuals been working on this
since the 90s.

681
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,800
So with the cypherpunks going
back.

682
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:17,900
So there's all this stuff going
on, that all happen.

683
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:21,100
The came together for this and
it's really cool that you kind

684
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:23,600
of thought about this the same
time.

685
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,900
My thoughts were developing
around this in the last couple

686
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:28,400
of years.
Yeah, look the thing that really

687
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,500
struck my mind was if you think
about it, the fact that you can

688
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:38,500
have digital property You know.
Yes, it's like mind-blowing and

689
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:42,500
one of the reasons why I am my
back and is a legal one, so I

690
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:45,400
owe you that thing.
So one of the reasons why I was

691
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,800
so interested in was the fact
that there were huge cases like

692
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,500
legal cases, regarding who owns
what, when he comes a video

693
00:39:55,500 --> 00:40:00,500
game, because there's the
license issue, but at the on the

694
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:04,100
other side, you have the player
that plays so many hours a day.

695
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,400
You know, to get that pink.
One of the words that is used in

696
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,800
the video.
Game is the skin.

697
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,100
You have your own skin, so it's
my property now.

698
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,200
I mean, I don't want to go too
cerebral, but the idea that

699
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,700
Bitcoin, or ATM or anything that
can be built on top of the

700
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:22,500
theorem is part of your property
Stadium, will let then you can

701
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:25,500
really do whatever you want is
really literally mind-blowing

702
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,000
and of course the next thing
after property is contracts.

703
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,800
So if you can really embed, you
know, contracts into software,

704
00:40:33,100 --> 00:40:36,600
you really have your choice.
Games that nowadays, you know,

705
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,900
my look like very simple but who
knows what they will be in 10

706
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:45,300
years.
I mean I know I know and and to

707
00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:49,300
me it's you know, video game
industry is driving so much of

708
00:40:49,300 --> 00:40:53,900
this great web three.
I mean, gamification of our

709
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:55,900
mindset.
I mean, the kind of things that

710
00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:58,600
come from the video game
industry and Spain.

711
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:01,100
I really like reshaping the way
we live.

712
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,800
So totally, it's putting
yourself into that virtual

713
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,400
world.
Old.

714
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:07,600
Yeah.
And that in order to do that

715
00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:11,800
properly and to have fairness
and Justice in the digital

716
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,700
world, and the virtual world,
you need contracts height, you

717
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,900
need property rights.
You need all these things that

718
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:24,100
you guys are working on to make
it easier for people to do with

719
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:28,500
smart contracts.
On that note, Federico we have

720
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:34,500
covered a wide range of topics
today and we got into your past

721
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,400
quite a bit.
Is there anything left were that

722
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,100
people may not know about you to
pose that final question that we

723
00:41:41,107 --> 00:41:42,700
asked everybody?
What is one thing that people

724
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:44,400
would not expect to know about
Federico?

725
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:45,200
Yeah.
Yeah.

726
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,300
Well, I used to dance.
Oh, really?

727
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:52,800
Yes.
I, when I was a kid, I used to

728
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,300
do a lot of Ballroom then
dances, like, About Sir, you

729
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:58,000
know, Chad, okay.
Yeah, yeah.

730
00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:05,000
And so, even even though I know
law technology he couldn't, I

731
00:42:05,008 --> 00:42:10,000
mean Financial stuff economics.
These are very rational vocals

732
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,800
bass things, right?
But I think that there is a very

733
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,400
big part of me that is more
sentimental focus on, you know,

734
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,000
the mood, the Aesthetics, that
these things can drive.

735
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,000
So and of, you know, anything
that is like see My things like

736
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,500
that.
Who knows?

737
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,000
Maybe in the future are going to
be a movie producer.

738
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:32,900
You might be, you might be but
footwork.

739
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:36,000
Footwork is everything when it
comes to dancing, isn't it?

740
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:40,200
Yes, yes, it's work.
And the mood in the mood and the

741
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,400
aesthetic is really the flow,
you know, the Elegance of okay,

742
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:46,100
okay.
But you do have to master the

743
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:49,100
footwork and and the pose, the
food work, the polls.

744
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:51,600
And the timing, you know, it's a
bunch of things.

745
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,900
You really need to be
synchronized mind and body.

746
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,100
Yeah, you really need.
To well yeah, this is actually

747
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:01,700
something that I would say,
relates with the startup word.

748
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:05,300
You do need to have the vision
where we are with the footwork

749
00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,700
where we have where you're
heading, because you need to see

750
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:11,500
yourself three foods ahead.
And, you know, one of the

751
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:15,200
biggest challenges when it comes
to start, tapping is having the

752
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,600
vision and having the vision
clear enough so that you can

753
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,000
make, you know, the food's
ahead.

754
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:25,800
Hopefully not perfectly right?
But, as as right as possible, As

755
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,100
much right as possible.
So it's a great that's great.

756
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:30,500
Way to sum it all up.
Federigo.

757
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:33,400
Listen.
What is the best way for people

758
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,600
to get in touch with you?
Yeah, I think LinkedIn.

759
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,700
I am quite responsive there.
Okay.

760
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,200
Ich open, Easy, ba and is I just
drop me a connection message and

761
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,700
I'll respond.
Connect fantastic.

762
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,800
Well Federico.
Thank you so much for coming out

763
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,800
to the show.
I've really enjoyed this chat.

764
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,100
Yeah, like I know, I'll see you
in a bit later.

765
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:54,900
Yes, I'll see you.
Thanks again.

766
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:00,100
And Have a good one.
That does it for this week,

767
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:01,900
folks.
Thanks to Federico open Easy for

768
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:03,800
opening up, his mind to help us
figure out why he does.

769
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,500
What he does.
You can learn more about

770
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:07,900
Federico and low key code in the
show notes on our website money

771
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:09,700
never sleeps.
That IE, if you like what you

772
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:12,700
heard, please leave us a rating
and a review on Apple podcast or

773
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:14,200
Spotify.
Is it helps others to find the

774
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:15,900
show?
Thanks to Kona Brophy, from

775
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:18,300
create sound for mixing and
editing this episode.

776
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:20,600
Conan isn't excellent medium and
to get in touch with when you

777
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,000
think about launching your own
podcast.

778
00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:24,900
As for me, I'm an early stage,
startup investor focused on

779
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:27,500
where fintech meets crypto and
crypto meets web tree and I lead

780
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:29,800
the textures web 3 accelerator.
There are plenty of links in the

781
00:44:29,808 --> 00:44:31,900
show notes on money, never
sleeps that IE on how to get in

782
00:44:31,908 --> 00:44:34,200
touch.
So don't hesitate to reach out

783
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:36,300
finally till next time, thanks
for listening.

784
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:36,900
See you