189: Money Talks #52: Metaverse Infrastructure | ETH Merge | Wayflyer Flying | Alloy’s Big Round | Bradley Tusk & DAOs

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Hey there, I'm Pete, Townsend in
this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, that crossover of

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startups, Enterprise Finance,
technology and Life.

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As We Know It, This episode of
money.

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Never sleeps is sponsored by
Phillip Lee.

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One of Arlen's fastest growing
corporate law firms and expert

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advisors at the heart of the
Dublin in London start-up

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fintech and crypto communities.
And I are both thrilled to be

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back with all the.
You have to running a monthly

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schedule for this summer.
We're now back on our regular

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weekly episode drops for this
week.

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Owen and I dove into the
shortcomings of metaverse,

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Graphics through the lens of
metaverse, deep thinker, Matthew

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ball in his new book, on the
metaverse.

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What's up with the etherium?
Merge?

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Big fundraisings of Irish
unicorn, way flyer and techstars

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grad alloy, the death of ing,
zsolt blocks cash app,

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small-dollar, lending,
milestone, An old friend Bradley

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Tusk takes a supercharged
regulatory advisory into crypto

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endows or decentralized,
autonomous organizations.

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All right here on money.
Never sleeps.

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Hello.
Ann, Fitzgerald.

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How are you today?
A Pete Townshend your fine self.

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How you doing?
I am very good.

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Just got all the blinds closed
here because we are recording

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during the day for time.
A long time, I mean, what are

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you talking about ships in the
evening piece?

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I'm working out.
Sorry, that's right.

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It is an evening.
I was a bit in the darkness.

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Looks like the darkness must
have confused.

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You the darkness did confuse me.
Absolutely so awesome.

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To be back doing this again a
week more summer.

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Hiatus going back.
Weekly again.

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I missed it.
Yeah, me too.

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I totally missed it.
I'm like, who my wife doesn't

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want to hear about this?
I think Tech news every week.

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That's like someone I need to
talk to somebody about this

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stuff.
Awesome.

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Awesome.
Well, I had a great time in

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Spain.
And I know that we did it

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episode after we came back from
the US.

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And I talked about that
ridiculous 8 to 10 to 11,

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different combinations of pain
options that you have there and

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just depending upon the machine
that you're using or whatever.

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But pleased to say that in
Spain, there were only three

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Spain, you can pay cash, which
was, you know, sometimes

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preferred but everyone had a sum
up machine or something like

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that at these little markets
that we go to and you could it

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was tap it was tap tap tap tap
tap, that's all we did.

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You know, sometimes you needed
to pin depending upon what the

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machine was.
But so three.

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So happy to come back from this,
wonderful, European Union that

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we're in to say that it's great
to have this payment hamaji

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homogeneity, does the word
across Europe that the US will.

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I don't think we'll ever have.
Yeah, you didn't, you didn't

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make it to the American football
game, where some up, made the

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news?
No, I didn't.

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So So for all of our friends out
there in the u.s. that may not

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be aware of this that
Northwestern and Nebraska had a,

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you know, at a football game, I
can call it football because no

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American in Aviva Stadium here.
And at some point during the

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game that the card machine
stopped working and was hired as

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someone who shares Stadium.
Yeah, they were some of the

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entire stadium.
So, rather than say, to all

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these Americans that were over
sorry no beer and hot dogs.

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Are you guys?
It was just giving away for free

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free for like 75 percent of Ink
on the day was free.

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Yeah, amazing.
I've been at Aviva stadium for

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for European League games in.
Not even European League games.

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I think it was eight Ireland
versus my toe and Montenegro or

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somebody, right?
Yeah.

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And the food was gone by
halftime.

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They didn't have enough food.
And that was for a nun, full

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stadium.
So the fact that they were able

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to give away hot dogs and beer
to thousands and that tens of

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thousands of American fans was
just awesome.

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Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Not for Um, everyone else?

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No, no, not for some up and you
know, but I've been over over

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the summer as well.
I started reading this book

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metaverse by Maui a ball and
it's the metaverse and how it

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will revolutionize everything.
Shout out to Liang Wu and His

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Life in Color newsletter on sub
stack will stick that into the

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show notes and he's the one who
pointed out Matthew Balls

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metaverse book to me and it's
really got me deeper down this

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rabbit hole.
If I can go any deeper and What

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I've been looking for was an
easy definition of the metaverse

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because it's like where do you
actually go with this and the

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shortest and most poetic version
of metaverse that Matthew ball

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as is that it's the live 3D
version of the internet, right?

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So just think about that for the
second live. 3D version, the

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internet.
Okay.

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Starts getting your imagination
going.

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A little bit, right?
The long definition.

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Basically if you break this
definition down into different

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Clauses each one of those it
Chapter in the book.

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And so the long definition as he
says it and this really

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underscores how much work we
have left to do on the

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infrastructure side building, a
metaverse is a massively scaled

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and interoperable network.
Okay?

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Of real-time rendered 3D virtual
worlds, That can be experienced

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synchronously and persistently
by, and effectively unlimited

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number of users, within
individual sense of presence and

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with continuity of data, such as
identity history, entitlements

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objects, Communications and
payments.

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That is more than a mouthful.
Okay, and each one of those

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seven or eight points is a
chapter of the book, we go

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through how difficult this is.
Now he is.

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I've listened to him before on
invest like the best with a

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Patrick O'Shaughnessy.
Yeah.

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And you did an interview with
them two years ago, and where

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Matthew ball had been head of
Amazon Studios, I think and

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really creative really Brainiac
around this deep deep deep into

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the video game side of things
and where all of this is coming

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from and I know you'll like
this.

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Is that the best Or Bearer that
we have of metaverse right now

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are two games to video games.
One Fortnight to Roblox, right?

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Those are the best.
Perhaps incantations of where

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this is all headed, and he's
deep into he quotes.

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Tim Sweeney all the time in the
book, whose epic games and epic

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games.
Obviously, you know are behind

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Fortnight.
So you know, there's there's a

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lot lot left to do one of the
one of the good.

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Examples out of the book is that
you know just take for example,

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the ability when you're in take
Fortnight right and imagine

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playing Fortnight with a VR
headset and that it's not only

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you playing but I don't know.
100 of your friends and you're

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walking through one of these
zones in the game and you knock

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over a tree, right?
You shoot a tree and knock it

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down to all the Players.
See it the same way at the same

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time, right?
And do they do they actually

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hear the tree falls in the
forest, right?

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Which is the gold adage in the
old argument and when someone

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else walks by that, is that tree
still going to be down or is it

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reset for players?
All these types of things you

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need this Persistence of data
and experience and for multiple

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players Bill to do this?
We are a long way away from

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that.
So most of these video games,

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build and develop to a bar and
they set the bar of late, And

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see which is how long of a delay
do you get between, you know,

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actually instructing something
through, you know, through the

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game and it actually happening
that they build it to a latency

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of 10 to 20 milliseconds the
quickest.

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You can possibly send a message
of any kind between New York and

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Hong Kong is 45 milliseconds.
So the world's infrastructure

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and fiber optics are not there
yet to be able to support.

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What is the Ready Player one and
or snow crash visualizations of

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what the metaverse really is.
And there's a lot of Work left

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to do so case in point if this
has been dreamt up and that we

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can point to and say this is how
it could happen.

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There's going to be a ton of
money that goes into the

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companies that are building the
infrastructure that will enable

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this to really happen.
It is such a massive, massive

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market and a huge opportunity.
There's so many different little

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intricacies of what needs to be
done.

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So I books got me very excited
obviously.

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No no I was talking to a guy but
week and a half ago Consulting A

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firm and they were asking about
my kind of view on it.

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And I was like, look, I said we
talked about this a lot.

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I said I'm not as far down the
rabbit hole as you and those,

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I'm skeptical of a lot of it but
you know, where I see it live

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now is in gaming.
And I talked about kind of

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fortnight and like most nights
my son.

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He's watched 11 now.
So he stays up later and the TV

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with the Xbox's in the living
room, so I can't help.

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But listen to him.
Play at Fortnight online with

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his friends in the evening for
yours to bed.

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And Watch them do tonight.
I was thinking too much like

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there, we could get to a point
in the future where by in his

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game he could go to Virtual
McDonald's or whatever an order,

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you know, and it would be
connected to because we've

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obviously delivery or whatever
here connected to the McDonald's

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locally or whatever.
So, not example, you could see a

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scenario where he could go to
one in in the gaming world, that

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is then connected to the
physical one, here under

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delivery service.
And all of a sudden he's paid

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for is using his in-game.
See and it's deliver to our door

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here.
So like that's not that far of a

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jump to connect those two
things.

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So I want to know the big jump
Gophers.

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You know, the big jump is the
machine to brain interface that

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you command to say to your
brain.

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You're not actually hungry and
you don't order McDonald's.

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Yeah.
Okay.

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Well I think we're been with not
playing because you've trick

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your brain into thinking that
you're not hungry anymore

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because you want to stay in the
metaverse for another three

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hours, right?
So it's it's it's all there,

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it's all there.
And one of The articles that I

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found this week, that kind of
summed, it all up was in decrypt

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on the 27th of August and it was
after 177 billion dollars in

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investment.
Why do metaverse Graphics still

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suck, right?
And the poster child for that

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was the bobbing Mark Zuckerberg
head in front of the Eiffel

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Tower.
Yeah, it's like really, is that

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the best we can do?
So I asked like one of those we

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characters from a Nintendo Wii,
all those years ago when you're

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playing tennis Did and then they
did some sharper rendition of it

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made his eyes look a bit more.
I don't know, Steely and focused

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like what's-his-name data from
Star Trek.

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And the I asked my nine-year-old
about this and I'm like, okay

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I'm reading a lot about Roblox
and Fortnight, show them both to

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me.
I'd seen it before, but I hadn't

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really paid attention, and he
showed me Fortnight and I'm

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like, okay pretty immersive,
pretty good graphics in there

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and then I said, show me Roblox
and he showed me something on

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there.
Some star Our simulation where

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you could put on these different
Lego outfits and I'm like, the

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graphics kind of basic the best,
are they?

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Yeah.
And he's like, yeah, I said,

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well, what do you care about?
He's like, well, what do you

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mean?
I said, well, when you're

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playing Fortnight, when he care
about, he's like, well, I just

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don't want to be killed by a
random.

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ER, what do you mean by that is
like Karen Hardy, just it's all

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my fault, somebody's wearing the
default, whatever you get when

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you going to Fortnight, the
default skin and you know, so he

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wants to be To pick up gear and
do all that type of stuff and

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like, you care that much about
what the graphics look like.

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He's like, not really, I'm just
there for because it's fun.

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And I said, well, what about on
Roblox?

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00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,700
What's that?
He's like, White's want to build

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stuff.
So, you know, and listening to

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others, talk about this.
It's like, this experience needs

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00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,100
to be fun.
That's the big thing about and

225
00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:01,500
there needs to be something that
keeps you coming back and keep

226
00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,700
you wanting to do more.
So all of this science that goes

227
00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:07,600
into video games and creating
this is really, you know, the

228
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,400
core of what's Happening.
The metaverse level, but like I

229
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,400
said, we we are so far away from
the big big vision of what this

230
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,600
will all look like.
I read Ready Player 2 over the

231
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,100
summer that was totally
dystopian, totally messed up,

232
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,400
but it was bubblegum throwaway
Pop.

233
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,900
I just like totally turned me
off that and I started reading

234
00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:28,300
more Neal Stephenson again
because the more thoughtful

235
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,600
writer about the future.
But anyway, That's what I have

236
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,400
to say about the metaverse as
Forrest Gump says, that's all I

237
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,900
have to say about that.
Well, we're going somewhere, we

238
00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:44,800
are going somewhere with this,
so they'll be looking at the

239
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,000
here and now.
Yep, big moment happening over

240
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,000
the next week to 10 days.
Is the etherium merge?

241
00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:56,500
If you heard much about this?
Nope, this means nothing to me,

242
00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,000
okay?
So etherium is a proof-of-work

243
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,000
blockchain as it is today.
As is Bitcoin, solve a complex,

244
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,600
algorithmic cryptographic puzzle
in order to lock down the rights

245
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,800
to mind that block and you get
mining rewards for it, right?

246
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:18,000
And that's what miners do and
years ago I read the what was

247
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,900
the, you know, a next version of
any Theory and white paper.

248
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:23,800
The talked about moving to proof
of steak, which is that

249
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:29,800
validating transactions are done
by nodes that have staked the

250
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,400
token, right?
And that That they're randomly

251
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,700
selected on who gets to validate
that note but you need to

252
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:39,400
obviously have skin in the game
you need to stake.

253
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,100
I think it's a minimum of, I
don't know.

254
00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:44,800
I think it's like 30 ether or
something like that in order to

255
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,200
steak so that you can validate a
transaction block and then you

256
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,100
know be rewarded for that.
So and not have to solve this

257
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,300
cryptographic puzzle in layman's
terms.

258
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:56,700
The big benefit is that this
uses 99 percent?

259
00:13:56,700 --> 00:13:59,600
Less electricity?
It's go time.

260
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,500
So that's been the big big thing
about proof-of-work blockchains

261
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:05,000
like Bitcoin and the current
version of the theorem is that

262
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,200
it will it uses way too much
electricity.

263
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:12,200
So the theorem is moving to
proof of stake which uses far

264
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,000
less and that will be happening
over the course of the next 10

265
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,500
days.
And some of the final pieces of

266
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,900
the merge were put in place
because theorem have had the

267
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,800
there proof of stake chain up
and running for, I don't know

268
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,000
the last Year.
And now, they're just merging

269
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:36,000
those two chains together and
that will open up tons of

270
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:41,000
Runway, really, for, for the
etherium story and as unfold.

271
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:45,500
So that has been getting a huge
amount of attention, one of the

272
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:49,100
impacts here, think about this?
What is it?

273
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:52,400
That I'm not sure how up the
curve.

274
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,200
You are on this single element
of it.

275
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,900
Owen but Invidia are the big
makers of chipmunks.

276
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,600
Gpus graphical, processing
units, whatever the called and

277
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,100
those are used primarily for
video games but crypto miners

278
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:07,700
have been using them because
they were far more processing

279
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:10,600
power.
Then you know, the normal good

280
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,500
processors and what's happened
is that if the theory mm, now

281
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:18,100
needs 99 percent, less
electricity and there's no

282
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:20,700
mining, you know, power required
a very little mining.

283
00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:24,100
If any mining power required for
theorem, you can have all these

284
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:26,300
gpus that are not needed
anymore.

285
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,000
Yeah.
So I heard Nick Carter.

286
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,800
ER, from Castle Island.
Ventures was talking about it on

287
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,700
their podcast that I was
listening to this morning and he

288
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:38,900
said, what did he say?
He said it's like that scene in

289
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:43,100
Star Wars, where Alderaan gets
blown up and Obi-Wan.

290
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:46,000
Kenobi says, there's been a
disturbance in the force.

291
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:50,400
I just heard a million Souls
crying out and it's like he said

292
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,500
there's a disturbance in crypto.
I've heard a million gpus crying

293
00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,200
out.
His will no longer be necessary.

294
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,900
They're gone.
Because you just won't need them

295
00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:02,200
anymore.
So this is, this is a pretty big

296
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,300
deal and everybody's going to be
holding their breath.

297
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,700
It's like again, Nick Carter was
talking about is this, you know,

298
00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:12,500
a Y2K moment that, you know, is
it more Y2K that it's like this

299
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:15,000
big big, you know,
scaremongering going on that

300
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,100
ethereal may fall over, you know
in 10 days time or in nine days

301
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:22,600
time and but most of the world
is like, no, actually it's it's

302
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,100
fine, it's going to happen.
It's you know we'll be able to

303
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:28,200
get through this just fine and
you know we'll wait.

304
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,900
Up on the 16th and everything
will be there running smoothly

305
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,100
on a theorem.
So it's a big moment.

306
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,100
Some people are saying it's you
know, etherium the price of a

307
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,800
theorem is going to go through
the roof because of this others

308
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,200
are saying it's already priced
in.

309
00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,100
I don't know, I won't, you know,
comment on it either way because

310
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,100
this is not investment advice,
all right?

311
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:50,200
But that is, you know, to me,
one of the biggest stories of

312
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:50,900
this month.
Yeah.

313
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,800
Yeah, well sure.
Look, we will obviously that

314
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,700
like totally over your head or
you do you have a view on it?

315
00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:57,600
Nope.
No view.

316
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:04,099
Nobody say, things are of that.
I kind of clued in video

317
00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:06,200
obviously had that.
They're being banned from what

318
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,500
selling chips to China or
something.

319
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,599
It's a national day in the press
for us recently in the US or

320
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,000
something like that and like
that.

321
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,000
I only remember, I only know
that because Nancy, Pelosi sold

322
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,300
all her shares today before it
was Ali.

323
00:17:18,099 --> 00:17:21,400
Whoo, good for her.
Yeah, yeah, coincidence.

324
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:25,800
Jesus, some people get away with
murder.

325
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:27,099
No, no.
Does he I know?

326
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:30,200
Because I follow on one of the
Twitter, Treads follows that

327
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,900
there's a Nancy Pelosi stock
tracker and attracts all of the

328
00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:35,500
movements, she makes in her own
share.

329
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:40,300
Portfolio is always convenient
timing of sale of shares.

330
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:43,500
So does that to people out there
who just have portfolios that

331
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:46,200
model her ones.
So, that's how we knew better

332
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,400
idea.
That's that's about all I know

333
00:17:48,408 --> 00:17:51,600
about what you just said.
It's like, I think there is a Is

334
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,500
a investment strategy there,
which is the political insiders.

335
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,800
Know, copycat portfolio.
Yep.

336
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,500
And say hey, just follow that.
Yeah, that's on Vice at all.

337
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,400
Yeah, so do not advise, we come
back, we will come back to it,

338
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,100
the theory emerged.
So because obviously over the

339
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,200
next two weeks or so, it'll kind
of start to play out.

340
00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:11,700
So what that means, what it
looks like.

341
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,400
Yeah, yeah, no I can't wait to
see what happens.

342
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:20,400
It's like it, you know goofily
saying it's a whole new world,

343
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,100
you know, but it it It feels
like things are happening.

344
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,300
Like, for example, layer twos.
Like polygon the polygon

345
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:33,400
blockchain are there because the
etherium processing time was too

346
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,800
slow.
It was too expensive because the

347
00:18:35,808 --> 00:18:38,600
gas fees as her call the
transaction fees get very

348
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,600
expensive.
When there's a lot of the

349
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,900
Network's clogged up and there's
a lot of transactions going

350
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:44,300
through.
So this is going to clear a lot

351
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:46,900
of that.
It's not the total Panacea for

352
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,300
what, ails etherium as a network
right now, but it is a big, big

353
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,300
step in the right direction.
So it's going to be fantastic to

354
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,900
see what actually happens.
And if people can actually in

355
00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:01,600
the crypto World there are that
are seeing this and and what

356
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,200
that does to the whole
landscape.

357
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,100
So you know, will it's going to
take a few months to unfold but

358
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,400
it's going to be a quite
liberating is is the way I like

359
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,700
to describe it.
Perfect, speaking of liberating.

360
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,200
Yep.
Way flyer have managed to

361
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,600
liberate credit Swiss from 253
million in their capital.

362
00:19:21,900 --> 00:19:25,500
The second I say financing for
our friends from way Flyers,

363
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:32,000
thank you pulled that one out of
my ear with that one but big

364
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,200
deal.
Obviously that company just

365
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,500
keeps growing and growing and
you know awesome to see them

366
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:40,900
doing so well.
And if you on that from your

367
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,700
perspective own look I mean
we've obviously looked at white

368
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,700
flour few times of the in terms
of the story, Grace, Irish

369
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:49,800
success story because actually
do that was in see.

370
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,600
When was that?
That was very much.

371
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,000
The 1st September in a times.
And actually, it's interesting

372
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,400
because only this week I think
clear Co announced they were

373
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,800
closing their Irish.
Yeah, last European headquarters

374
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,900
today opened an office in
Ireland about 12 months ago.

375
00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:10,300
I think planning 5220 jobs and
even answered their shuttering,

376
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:12,200
that operation now.
But obviously tear code be,

377
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,800
probably the most direct
competitor to way flyer.

378
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,400
So it seems like they're
stepping back their European

379
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,900
expansion while a flower,
obviously, raising money to help

380
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,500
fund their International
expansion.

381
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,000
No, really, you know, really
interesting but they're killing

382
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,500
us obviously killing us.
And they are, they are.

383
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:39,900
And, you know, I I said in
reading the news I'm like I just

384
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:41,500
don't know who their customers
are.

385
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,300
And so I go to the website and
look at the headline names,

386
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,500
which any big fintech or any big
announced.

387
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:50,700
A space, start up whenever will
list on their website.

388
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,000
So geologic, bionic Jim Branch
current body and Docking Bay all

389
00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,400
of these ECommerce sites that
are leveraging, the way flyer

390
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,400
kit to be able to have smarter
analytics into their day-to-day

391
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,600
and into their business.
And in return, obviously way

392
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,600
flyer have access to that data
and can use that to determine

393
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,800
the feasibility of lending these
platforms money.

394
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,700
If it's whole wheat, flour
model, as you know, I've never

395
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,800
heard of geologic.
Bionic gym Branch current body

396
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,600
or Docking Bay.
I've never bought anything from

397
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,100
them but who cares, right?
It's that they've been able to

398
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:28,800
reach all of these e-commerce.
Or spot forms and be able to

399
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,300
bring them on board.
And, you know, you've got to

400
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:39,400
expect that based upon how
focused that way flyer have been

401
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:44,500
on being a completely digital
Financial business that the

402
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,000
onboarding which can be costly
for lender is going to be pretty

403
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,100
inexpensive for for a way flyer
to do and their ability to, then

404
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,500
service them is fully digital
and SAS based.

405
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,200
So, it's an awesome combination
of all the best of fintech and

406
00:22:00,208 --> 00:22:03,400
all the bestest ass.
Yeah, and you know, another big

407
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,500
successfully, I don't know where
we go from here with the way

408
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:07,500
flyer, right?
What happens with that?

409
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,100
Yeah, cuz I got, I would see it
that the comparison for them is

410
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:13,500
the likes of stripe.
And I say that in the sense

411
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:15,300
that, like, striper the
infrastructure.

412
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,300
Yeah, build upon.
And like, I put stripe in the

413
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,000
same category as Shopify.
Did you notice?

414
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,000
It was hundreds of online stores
built on Shopify that do

415
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,300
millions in Revenue that we'd
never have heard of.

416
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,300
But they're doing it on the
Shopify platform, you know, and

417
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:31,500
it seems like way flyer doing
the same.

418
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:36,000
So to me the solution is more
financial products and it's more

419
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,600
products, probably tied around.
Even those guys, you know, maybe

420
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,700
eat their, their customers,
onboarding, their own customers

421
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:47,700
or suppliers or, you know, fraud
or kyc, or those sort of

422
00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,500
supports kind of the same model
as stripe, or they've rolled out

423
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,600
additional functionality, that
you would need to grow your

424
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,600
business using They're kind of
underlying tools and I think

425
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,200
that's going to be the same
thing here because you know that

426
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600
you could easily see them going
into a kind of virtual debit

427
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,900
card or virtual credit card
offering for their customers.

428
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,400
You know a further kind of
lending product that Taps into

429
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,800
what they're already doing.
But I think when you see some of

430
00:23:12,808 --> 00:23:14,700
the work being done by some new
tech companies and we're going

431
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:17,200
to talk about alloy in a few
minutes but like that it's

432
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,600
probably building out or
offering all of the

433
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,000
functionality needed for someone
to build an e-commerce store on

434
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,800
top of it then.
Yeah, yeah yeah.

435
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,800
No I think you're right.
And there is this Square Shopify

436
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:33,500
thing.
Yeah stripe there's way flyer

437
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:38,000
are in there in that club as far
as I'm concerned and what they

438
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,700
built means that they could go
in a couple of different

439
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:48,200
directions to generate this FL
y, wh e l, can you say what that

440
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,500
is?
Yeah, the flywheel.

441
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,100
That's yeah, yeah.
Set up.

442
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,600
The assignment Taylor, he was
talking on, Lex auckland's

443
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,000
fintech blueprint about fly.
Else in the data flywheel

444
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,200
Brittany's talking about the
journey thing that we went

445
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,200
through last year around square
and b n PL.

446
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,000
And what the after pay
acquisition did for what he was

447
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,900
calling their data flywheel,
that were calling the fintech

448
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:10,800
flywheel.
So if there's anybody in the

449
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,900
world that would come up with
something without listening to

450
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:15,600
our podcast, it would be Simon,
Taylor genius, and all this

451
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,700
stuff.
He's talking through, like all

452
00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:22,000
the mechanics of the processing
of credit cards and how that all

453
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,200
works.
And it's like I learned

454
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,600
something from him every time I
listen to him, talk about that.

455
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,200
I've Listen to him, talk about
that 100 years, right?

456
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,300
So you know, shout out to Simon
for it was awesome to hear the

457
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:34,300
him come to the same, but I
think it like that there you've

458
00:24:34,300 --> 00:24:38,700
a handful maybe 10 or less kind
of fintechs and I would my

459
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:41,400
degree child include way flour
and I mean that group whereby

460
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,900
they have sufficient scale but
also there are so embedded in

461
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:49,900
their customers that as their
customers grow their growing, so

462
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:51,900
the more they can help their
customers grow.

463
00:24:51,900 --> 00:24:55,200
Then the more they'll grow the
business, You know, and like

464
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,300
that seat, you know, you've
Square, you've Amazon your

465
00:24:57,300 --> 00:25:00,000
Shopify.
If stripe is a good few that can

466
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,000
just then roll out an additional
feature within it, a new price

467
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,500
and all of a sudden, their
revenues doubled because of

468
00:25:05,508 --> 00:25:07,900
something.
But something that's relatively

469
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:10,000
easy for them to roll out to
their client Basin.

470
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,800
Yeah.
Any luck with getting a dinner,

471
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,600
Jack interested in coming to
have a chat with us on the

472
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,000
podcast know.
We keep trying, we put a shout

473
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,000
out, public.
Okay, look, Shadows public,

474
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,900
shout out but also to Emma
Walker.

475
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,900
Yes, our good friend arms, And
who might be able to help us out

476
00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:28,800
in the mentor on the techstars
went through program.

477
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,400
And yeah, so we'll see if we can
enlist Emma to help.

478
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,600
Yeah, we'll see where this goes
can be great to talk to the two

479
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,400
of them.
I talked.

480
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,900
I think I mentioned before I
talked to Jackie years ago when,

481
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:41,400
yeah, it's coming out of EC and
thinking about doing this and it

482
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,000
just an intro chat and that's
all it was, you know, awesome to

483
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,000
at the big one to continue to
watch.

484
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,800
We will keep our eyes on that.
Hey everyone, this is Pete.

485
00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:56,300
Let me tell you about the folks
at Phillip.

486
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:59,500
Lee few years ago is that my
first Venture Capital industry

487
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,200
dinner in Dublin and honestly I
felt a bit lost.

488
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:05,300
I bumped into and Rita's Ali.
One of the partners at Phillip

489
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:07,600
Lee.
He bought me a pint introduced

490
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,700
me to the team and they took me
under their wing.

491
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,400
That take you under their wing
approach has been what I've

492
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,500
heard consistently from fintech.
And crypto startups who I know

493
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:18,400
have worked with Phillip, Lee
and Dublin and London to help

494
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,500
them.
Wrap the right legal.

495
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,300
Around their business
fundraising and Regulatory

496
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:24,100
needs.
And I can't recommend them

497
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:25,900
enough.
Get in touch with a team at

498
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:28,200
Philip lead that IE or on money.
Never sleeps.

499
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,500
That IE /, Phillip Lee to learn
more.

500
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,200
Alloy wanted to mention them as
well.

501
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,300
There are techstars grad going
back to 2016.

502
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:46,000
I think they just raised at a
1.5 billion valuation their

503
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,700
fraud prevention.
So there the widget that gets

504
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:52,300
plugged into a lot of these
consumer-facing fintech

505
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:54,700
platforms and crypto platforms
Gemini use them.

506
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,000
So they've raised an additional
fifty two million at a one point

507
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,000
five five billion valuation 11
months after raising Million at

508
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,900
a 1.35 billion valuation, so
like a, an add-on to their, to

509
00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:10,000
their last round, rather than
being put a no prone to x 3X,

510
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,700
modulation she definitely enough
around, which is great.

511
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:14,500
You know, what's going on our
melted.

512
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,400
So, this is all from TechCrunch
on the first of September.

513
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,400
And, you know, if you take a
look at what they do, I mean,

514
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,700
they are integrated with so many
different little pieces of

515
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,600
infrastructure.
That is needed when you are

516
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:32,300
onboarding customers doing kyc,
doing doing KY B, which is no.

517
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,900
Business and you know, they are
riding this wave in this bridge

518
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,200
between fintech platforms.
That are b2c but also then

519
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,700
crypto platforms that are more
centralized like a Gemini like a

520
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:50,400
coinbase like whomever and that
they are, you know, kind of

521
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,700
really underscoring that no
matter where you are in terms of

522
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:59,500
having relationships with
individuals that have where you

523
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:02,200
have some type of financial
transaction taking place just

524
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,300
Type of monetary transaction
taking place.

525
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,100
You need to prevent fraud, you
know, you need to prevent money

526
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,600
laundering, you need to prevent
people doing things that they

527
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,400
shouldn't be doing, and you have
that responsibility in alloy.

528
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:16,100
I've been, you know, obviously
great partner for tons of these

529
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:17,500
platforms.
They're doing really well?

530
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,200
No, it's it's like it's again,
it's a company that most people

531
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,600
would necessarily be familiar
with it.

532
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:27,600
So I dove Deep kind of kyc,
focused, fintech investors sort

533
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,900
of thing.
But again like I said, it's the

534
00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:33,100
interconnectivity and How Deeply
they currently are embedded in

535
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,400
with their customers, which
obviously allows them to scale.

536
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:38,300
You know, in the same way, we
were just talking about with the

537
00:28:38,308 --> 00:28:42,300
guys in way flyer and others.
So, yeah, it's a really

538
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:44,100
interesting one to watch.
Like there's loads of companies

539
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:47,900
in that space to very crowded
space but they seem to be, you

540
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:51,500
know, obviously the quality of
our API product and all the data

541
00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:53,800
sources that they're pulling you
know allows them time.

542
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,600
Do it in a far better way than
others.

543
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,700
So very impressive.
Oh yeah.

544
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:00,400
I mean nearly 1 million
decisions process daily in the

545
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,100
names right across their
website.

546
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:07,200
Breck's, Gemini is I mentioned
Marketa pedal and ramp all big

547
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,100
names that you know.
But people in this space at

548
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:15,000
least you and I know about and
it, you know, you need to be

549
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,800
able to move so fast when you're
bringing on new customers and

550
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,000
the millions of customers a
month that you know, you're

551
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,500
bringing in the Heyday.
Yeah.

552
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:23,800
It's a big, big, big
responsibility.

553
00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:25,900
Stability.
So again awesome to see them

554
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:28,100
doing this speaker.
Also like it's a product that

555
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:30,600
has to work every time there's
no margin for error.

556
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,000
Really?
Yeah you know whatever about

557
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,800
your payment's companies and we
were joking about some up

558
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,900
earlier you know occasionally
there be issues that's under

559
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,800
control and whatever but like
your fraud prevention tool has

560
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,300
to work all the time.
Absolutely.

561
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:49,400
So that was a fun one.
I know you wanted to mention a

562
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,000
couple of others.
Yes.

563
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,300
Yeah so we were obviously
talking about Square earlier

564
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:56,900
we're talking about is relative
to way flyer and we talked about

565
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:58,700
them before went after pay and
everything.

566
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:02,500
So the other one was and this I
saw this on wasn't even a news

567
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:04,800
announcement as such.
This was on fintech business

568
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,100
weekly by Jason mikula which I
subscribe to and I can highly

569
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,400
recommend, it's where I get a
lot of my kind of business fin

570
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,700
Tech news from But he was saying
that cash app, obviously, which

571
00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:22,800
is the square / block solution.
They now they've now hit a

572
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,100
monthly Milestone, 1 million
small loan so they do over a

573
00:30:26,108 --> 00:30:29,300
million small dollar loans,
every month to the customer

574
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:31,000
base.
So these are kind of six hundred

575
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,500
dollar up to six hundred dollar
loans cure fadem installments or

576
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:38,600
as a percentage of incoming
funds and it's the first kind of

577
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,500
credit product I rolled out but
you know we've been talking

578
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,900
about these before and like they
for Seven million monthly active

579
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,600
users on cash app.
So like that they're able to Jen

580
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,100
just bring on a new, you read
call it even a feature

581
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:53,800
necessarily not even a product
just the ability to within the

582
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,500
app but put in for a nap try
apply for six hundred dollar

583
00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:01,100
loan obviously get approved it
very quickly and already they

584
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:04,500
can go from.
I think they're the only rolled

585
00:31:04,500 --> 00:31:07,500
it out in the last year and now
there are over 1 million users

586
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:11,300
borrowing money every month.
Wow, what's the payback for the

587
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:12,800
six?
Hundred dollar loan.

588
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:15,400
Get back here.
What's the payback period?

589
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,800
Is it is what over a few months?
I don't think so.

590
00:31:18,808 --> 00:31:21,900
Next paycheck.
Oh no, it's are designed to be,

591
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:23,700
I mean, they're very quick kind
of turn around.

592
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:27,700
They're effectively short-term
or payday type loans.

593
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:29,800
Okay.
Yeah because they're designed

594
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,100
sort of people are kind of
repeatedly.

595
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,400
Borrowing it.
Yeah yeah.

596
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,200
So it's kind of like training
upon what your income level is,

597
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,900
right?
At the end of the month, of the

598
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:40,600
end of the week, of end of the
two weeks.

599
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,000
And you know, you're a few
hundred short because you just

600
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,900
got to figure.
Jack are so right well there you

601
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:49,300
go and then you you know you get
that and then you've got your

602
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:52,800
next paycheck coming in.
Of course they're going to do

603
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,400
incredibly detailed analysis and
run their algorithms on the

604
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,500
inflows that you have coming in
the outflows, you have going out

605
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,300
and say, what is it, that we can
actually, you know, fund for an

606
00:32:04,300 --> 00:32:08,800
individual has been quite smart
about it because it's set up so

607
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:14,000
that you know, if you If you're
due to make your payment for

608
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,800
your outstanding balance in full
and you don't have the money on

609
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,600
your cash app card, they will
take it from the debit card that

610
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,500
linked to your account.
So to calm down, avoid you kind

611
00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:26,100
of missing repent, making our
missing payments and stuff like

612
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:28,100
that.
But also, it allows the isn't

613
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:30,600
almost ensures that there will
be repaid in full each time.

614
00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:33,200
Yeah, I think we're I think
we're hitting the point in the

615
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,700
world right now where that for
someone to be able to pay their

616
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,300
their energy bills that they may
need a loan.

617
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:41,100
Like yeah, absolutely,
absolutely.

618
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:43,900
Because things are going through
the roof.

619
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,400
So, I mean, do we do we run the
risk of getting into this payday

620
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,900
loan category?
Absolutely.

621
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:54,200
I know, I definitely think.
So, like individuals that are

622
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,500
not, are are vulnerable
customers as we call them that

623
00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:59,900
don't actually have the
capability to pay these back.

624
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,400
Hopefully, with I think with
some old-school payday lenders

625
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,400
that are, you know, just chance
in their arm that you think we

626
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,800
could end up in a bad place.
But when you've got, you know,

627
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,200
players like these guys that Are
doing it.

628
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,600
You're in a different kettle of
fish.

629
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,900
Yeah, it's alright.
It's up to a month to repay so

630
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:21,100
it's a month of a term Max.
So it is designed to be a very

631
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,800
short-term thing and obviously
they're you know they're

632
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,200
building their able to build in
an immediate kind of credit

633
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,900
limits of.
I think they use or they they

634
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,600
can access the credit bureau
data if needed, but ultimately

635
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,000
their users, don't the writing,
you're basing your transaction

636
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,700
history.
And the fact that, you know, we

637
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:39,100
a lot of transactions are going
to your account and your

638
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:41,100
customer and they're able to
kind of run.

639
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,700
Or assess your credit worthiness
or your transaction ability or

640
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:48,300
your repayment ability based on
your transactions in your

641
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:51,000
account.
So it's really every 3D Smart

642
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,100
Move like that.
I, you know, in the scheme of

643
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:57,100
things, not a big leap for them
to roll out a product like that

644
00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:00,300
and embedded in the app in
itself and have it easy for

645
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:04,000
people to access and like that.
Very easy, very quick and turn

646
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,300
around for them to get to over a
million loans, every month

647
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,000
impressive.
Yeah.

648
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:12,300
So that's how fast the space is
moving, right?

649
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:14,900
Yeah, yeah.
So, that was an interesting one.

650
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,800
And then the other one I just
saw one, this is from like, two

651
00:34:17,808 --> 00:34:20,900
weeks ago or something 30th.
Sorry, this was the old being

652
00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:25,600
closed down by ing ing.
The old starts off in 2017 as a

653
00:34:25,607 --> 00:34:27,400
consumer facing money management
app.

654
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,800
But ing has evaluated the
business and concluded is not

655
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,600
feasible to achieve its
Ambitions.

656
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,100
Yep.
So this was this was coming

657
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:39,500
anyway because it got rebranded
last year.

658
00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:43,600
The old technology Services as a
B2B open banking can offering

659
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,100
but now they're phasing it out
altogether.

660
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,100
I wonder what ing are doing
behind the scenes with their

661
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:51,900
their banking platform as it is
anyway.

662
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:53,600
Right?
You know, we know that

663
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,699
traditional Banks just can't do
some of these same types of

664
00:34:56,699 --> 00:35:01,300
things as newly engineered
Financial platforms can but

665
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:05,700
obviously they got tired of fuel
and it's this age-old, right?

666
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:10,100
That is a big Traditional Bank
going to build add their own

667
00:35:10,100 --> 00:35:13,900
digital business and perhaps
Candle by some customers or are

668
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:16,300
they, are they going to partner
with somebody, or what you going

669
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:18,100
to do?
Or are you going to just rebuild

670
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:20,700
your platform from scratch?
That is a headache.

671
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:23,800
It's anyway, train join all of
these at the same Catch-22

672
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,300
because like there's been quite
a number of Acquisitions in the

673
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,900
open banking, kind of Technology
space.

674
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,700
So the fact that they just
pulled the plug on us, you know

675
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,500
the economics must have been
good at all because like that he

676
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:38,700
had Apple acquiring credit Kudos
and oh God the one the

677
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:42,800
Scandinavian.
Whose name I can't think of got

678
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,100
acquired as well.
Is that all?

679
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:47,300
No, no, no.
It'll come back to me.

680
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,200
Yeah.
But again, there's been lots of

681
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,300
Acquisitions in the open banking
space and surprised that, that,

682
00:35:54,300 --> 00:35:57,400
as a kind of offering trying to
compete with the likes of plaid

683
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,800
and others that if, you know,
someone wasn't willing to take a

684
00:35:59,808 --> 00:36:03,300
punt on it, or they weren't
willing to kind of try continue

685
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:05,600
it in some shape or form.
Mmm.

686
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,900
Yeah, it is feels like rather
than buying a fintech brand and

687
00:36:09,900 --> 00:36:12,900
or Building a fin Tech Brands
and bring that to Consumers that

688
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:17,200
you just, you know, improve your
infrastructure and yeah, open

689
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,000
banking Acquisitions.
Are a good first step to do that

690
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,200
and I'm oversimplifying it by
saying it, that way.

691
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,900
Yeah, but in order to get, in
order to gain was to

692
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:27,300
Scandinavian open banking
platform got acquired by go,

693
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:28,200
Carlos.
I knew.

694
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,000
I had it in my head somewhere.
Yeah.

695
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:34,000
So yeah, that was, they were
just a couple of ones that stood

696
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,100
out.
Yeah, I was gonna say that like,

697
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:38,900
you know, talking about open
banking all these kinds of

698
00:36:38,900 --> 00:36:43,000
things, you know.
Fed now is happening in the u.s.

699
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,900
I think, which is, you know,
this real-time payment Network.

700
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,200
That is finally going to test
mode and I think there were some

701
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,800
questions coming on.
That that okay what will that do

702
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,000
to venmo and PayPal and those
instantaneous payment networks,

703
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,000
right?
And so many even suggested, what

704
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,000
will it do to crypto?
And it's like, I don't think we

705
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,200
have to worry about anything
there.

706
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,100
You know, the amount of people
that actually choose to live

707
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:08,300
their financial lives in crypto
right now, are is a drop in the

708
00:37:08,308 --> 00:37:10,000
bucket.
Compared to the problems that

709
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,500
Are being solved by being able
to move money on the current

710
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,000
Financial rails in real time.
So crypto is doing tens of

711
00:37:17,008 --> 00:37:19,500
millions of different things and
it's not about, you know, the

712
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:21,900
benefit of being able to move
money instantaneously, in some

713
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:24,200
places, it is where you don't
have access to those kinds of

714
00:37:24,207 --> 00:37:26,900
tools or you don't have, you
know, eight modern banking

715
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:29,100
Network or an upgrading banking
network.

716
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,400
But you know kryptos is a
different story for me.

717
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:40,200
I won't I won't go down that
rabbit hole but what other one

718
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,700
Was interesting that just came
up that I noticed and I picked

719
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:46,600
it out just for you.
Oh knowing that you read his

720
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,100
book and I think I might have
read it.

721
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,300
I think I did.
I can't recall but Bradley Tusk

722
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:54,600
we had on the show years ago.
Yeah and Bradley tust thing is

723
00:37:54,600 --> 00:38:00,200
to spend time with industries
that are facing regulatory

724
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,500
hurdles and he did this with
Uber that was his big one and

725
00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:07,200
where he invested in Uber and
Travis kalanick and saw as a

726
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,700
side note, Travis kalanick is
kind of Building up some kitchen

727
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:13,700
Venture in Latin America.
Yeah.

728
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:18,200
She's a story for another day
but Tusk strategies now, which

729
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,100
is Bradley tough business.
Climate Dow, have engaged tough

730
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:24,800
strategies to push Congress to
write Dows into law or

731
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,500
decentralized, autonomous
organizations and climate.

732
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:31,200
Dow is buying a carbon offsets
to basically, to increase the

733
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,200
price of them.
So that those instead of buying

734
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,900
carbon offsets as a corporation
to while offset your carbon

735
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,100
production that you actually
have to do something that

736
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:41,400
actually, Improves the real
world rather than just relying

737
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,100
on buying carbon offsets, so
awesome to see Bradley jumping

738
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:48,900
into that.
And, you know, that I won't get

739
00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:51,700
into the detail on the
connectivity between what a dow

740
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:55,000
is, and how that makes sense
from a climate perspective.

741
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,600
That's a much longer story for
another day, but it was love to

742
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,200
see that bit of news for your
own.

743
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,400
I know your yeah.
No, it look.

744
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,800
We obviously had Bradley on
because Tusk Venture is, they

745
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,400
work with startups that need to
be regulated or like that who I

746
00:39:09,408 --> 00:39:11,800
think Airbnb a few others.
He's worked with all the bigger

747
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,500
ones.
We've talked about before and

748
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,100
like in the US, the big Tech
firms to Google and Facebook and

749
00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:21,200
stuff have more lobbyists on
their payroll than, you know, a

750
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,300
lot of the normal typical
Financial Services firms or the

751
00:39:24,300 --> 00:39:27,200
tobacco firms are all of the
firm's that would be challenged

752
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,800
by Congress or law back in the
day and we're seeing it more and

753
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,400
more.
Now in the financial services

754
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,200
based was specifically with
fintechs because, you know, all

755
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,000
of the big-name firms, have
their own kind of public policy

756
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,100
team.
Now whose job over the years to

757
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,500
try to work with government
agencies you know leave

758
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:46,600
O'Donnell and from the bank
Confederation who had no pretty

759
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,100
well.
She's just joined stripe as

760
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:51,100
there on the public policy team
there and I've met her, I've met

761
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,500
one of our colleagues before a
really good guys but again like

762
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:58,000
stripe wouldn't be alone in
having a public policy team to

763
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,500
work with the regulator or not.
Even not just a Regulators were

764
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:02,600
mainly with government bodies
and government agencies in

765
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,300
different countries to see if
obviously to create a more

766
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,100
supportive environment for them
and their customers.

767
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,400
In two different markets.
So, you know, it's good to see

768
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,600
that earlier.
Stage companies are take trying

769
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,200
to take that same approach.
I must find the are meant to

770
00:40:18,207 --> 00:40:20,300
send on to it.
There was an article, I think,

771
00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:24,400
was in the New York Times about
the guy is it ft x.

772
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,300
This is Sam Sam, Sam bagman for
ya about how he's starting to

773
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:32,400
become a major player in the
political donation space,

774
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:34,700
because he's trying to get a
number of things through

775
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:38,000
Congress in the crypto space,
and it showed he was tracking

776
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,100
his donations millions of
Nations to key.

777
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:44,200
A kind of senators who are
voting on particular bills that

778
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:45,900
he wanted a path.
So you had find out and then

779
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:47,800
Dante but same.
Same idea applies.

780
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,700
No, that's business and like
that to try to get a favorable

781
00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,000
environment for the company.
So yeah, it's interested by I

782
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,600
find that stuff.
Really fascinating.

783
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,000
Duh, duh, gee on one hand are
you know, questionable on one

784
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,000
hand but that's how it works.
And I mean, Bradley was the one

785
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,600
that said that 99% of the
politicians he had ever met bar

786
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,000
one, which is Michael Bloomberg.
We're totally in it for the

787
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:09,600
next.
Vote.

788
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:10,900
And that was it, they didn't
care.

789
00:41:11,300 --> 00:41:13,600
It was just how do I get myself
re-elected in Michael Bloomberg

790
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,300
was the only one who actually,
you know, stuck to his word on

791
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:19,000
things and the world has moved
on since then.

792
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,500
But you know he's you know he's
doing what he can to help in an

793
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:24,300
industry that even up to two
years ago.

794
00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:26,500
He was like now we don't invest
in the crypto space.

795
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:29,600
So you know now the writing is
on the wall that this industry

796
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,300
needs some help and you know,
he's they're jumping in to help

797
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:35,100
which is awesome.
So go Bradley was speaking of

798
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,400
crypto funding had a good chat
with David angliss from Apollo

799
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,700
Capital just For we were
chatting tonight and they got a

800
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:46,500
lot going on down in Australia.
Loads happening there where

801
00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,300
they're very excited about the
raw web three Talent that's

802
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:50,900
coming out of Australia at the
moment.

803
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:54,200
So I mentioned Dows a few
minutes ago, upside down which I

804
00:41:54,207 --> 00:41:57,600
think is a great name for a dow.
They are an Australian incubator

805
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,300
investment, Dow that Apollo
capital or cortisone investors

806
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:05,100
in that is now live.
And there, you know, comment

807
00:42:05,100 --> 00:42:08,000
from David that they're Blown
Away by the caliber of

808
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,400
Australian projects that Are
coming through the programs that

809
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,700
they have set up.
So, you know, just more on that

810
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:14,300
Dow concept and where that's all
going.

811
00:42:14,300 --> 00:42:17,800
And I'm sure Bradley if he wants
to jump over to Australia next

812
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:20,100
to handle that.
He'd be, we can make some nice

813
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:22,300
introductions for him.
Absolutely.

814
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,900
All right Sarge we leave it
there.

815
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:28,000
Leave it there tonight.
It's all I have my friend.

816
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,700
All right.
Yeah that that that that That's

817
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:33,700
all folks.
All right, talk soon.

818
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,600
Okay.
Adios.

819
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:45,200
That does it for this week
folks, you can learn more about

820
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,500
the stories we covered in the
show, notes on our website

821
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:50,400
money, never sleeps that.
I also thanks to Conan Brophy

822
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,000
from create sound for mixing and
editing.

823
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,700
This episode Conan is an
excellent medium and you get in

824
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:56,300
touch with when you're thinking
about launching your own

825
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:58,900
podcast.
As for me, I'm an early stage,

826
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:01,500
startup investor an advisor
focused on where fintech meets

827
00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:04,300
crypto and crypto meets web 3,
you like to talk to you about

828
00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:06,200
your business, drop me a line on
info at money.

829
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,200
Never sleeps that, I finally
till next time, thanks for

830
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:10,200
listening, see you