198: MoneyTalks #56: Techstars Web3 | FTX Rant | Block’s Flywheel | Fintech+Crypto Apps HoF | Apple vs. NFTs & Reddit

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Hey there, I'm Pete Townsend,
and this is money, never sleeps.

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We look inside the minds of
entrepreneurs, and at the

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crossover of startups,
Enterprise Finance, technology

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and Life.
As We Know It, This episode of

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money.
Never sleeps is sponsored by

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security.
Centrex security, Centrex is a

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trusted cyber security company.
With offices.

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In Dublin, Cape Town in London,
security, Centrex provides

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expert.
Is re Services primarily in the

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finance and fin Tech Industries
with tailored Security Solutions

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to fit your specific needs and
Regulatory challenges in this

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episode.
Owen Fitzgerald.

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And I Riff on the next edition
of the techstars web 3

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accelerator that I'm running and
how it fits together with the

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New York City Bagel, white
blocks, goal of making cash app.

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Your primary bank is realistic.
The Hall of Fame ranking of

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fintech in crypto apps, Apple
cracking down on nft

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functionality.
Reddit success with the

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Thoughtful replacement of let's
face it folks.

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What is the tech term and ft or
non fungible token with the

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actual usability of the tech as
digital Collectibles with

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reddits, new profile pic
collection and finally insights

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into user.
Adoption and metaverse worlds

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through the lens of a VR
headset.

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All right here on money.
Never sleeps.

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Hey Owen, hey Pete, how's it
going?

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Not too bad you good busy day
users?

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Yeah, kind of busy day, busy
day.

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Definitely busy day, lots going
on.

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I was here last week during
midterm, the kids were home.

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Thankfully, my parents were
here, visiting from the US and

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looking, after the kids, my wife
and I were working up a storm.

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So thankfully, they were here
for that, but it was awesome.

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They got here in arrived at the
same time as me.

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Flying back from New York, last
Thursday, tell us all about New

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York Pete and yeah, and they
did.

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They arrive from Boston?
So wonderful brought them.

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Got them back to the house.
But yeah, it was great trip to

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New York that the second most
memorable thing was the bagels,

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right?
And that suckers smoked fish and

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bagels or sorry zucker's bagels.
And smoked fish to say it

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properly.
I had been the day before I had

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arrived in New York City, I was
trying must use with Matt

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guidera.
Lee from texts are shout out to

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Matt and he's like Pete, you
know, tomorrow you go for your

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bagel and your coffee.
I'm like oh that's right.

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I'm going to do that.
So I went out for a walk at six

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in the morning having a chat on
their face, not on FaceTime.

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Having a chat on, I think it was
WhatsApp video with Hume occur

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from techstars and racking up
the mobile data charges.

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And then the whole thing just
dropped because I hit the daily

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limit and I'm like, all right,
I'm done with my walk.

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There was suckers bagels and
smoked fish.

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I go inside.
Order my everything bagel with

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avocado smoked salmon and tomato
and get up to the counter coffee

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water on top of that, boom $25,
whoo.

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Yes I mean it must have been
some Bagel Emily.

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It's well known it was good but
it was the equivalent of going

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to like I don't know.
And O'Brien sandwich shop

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already.
That was the experience but

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basically self is phenomenal.
Yeah but it was the setting that

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was kind of what you In and it's
just, it's the price things have

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gone up now.
It's New York City.

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It was right across from Bryant
Park.

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So you know, location, high-rent
district, and but prices are Sky

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High there now, and even a beer
was like, at JFK was 1199.

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The little tiny turkey sandwich
was 14.

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That was just in a pre wrapped
package and whatever.

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So, yeah, that that's inflation
american-style, right?

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Yeah, it sure was Anna's here
but everything we are we are now

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I don't pay 25 Euro for a bagel
but at the same time.

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Yeah.
No.

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And I think they think was I did
it again.

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I went back the next day and got
the same way and it was it's

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gorgeous is good for nearly just
as good because you had the

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initial wow effect from.
Yeah.

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But what the other good things
that happen in New York was that

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I got the approval from
techstars to go ahead and launch

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the techstars web through
accelerator.

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The excellent.
Yeah.

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So we're going again.
We're doing this one as a

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techstars program.
This will bring with it, the

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investment that we had, you
know, that you get with any Tech

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Stars program up to 120k, but
that is obviously, the not the

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big draw, the big draw is that
this is a mentorship driven

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program and then you get this
techstars for Life advisory role

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from me and from human error,
we're on the hook, right?

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So you're not that we're on the
hook.

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It's that we are this is why it
a job we were doing.

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You know, it's the extreme
enjoyment of working with

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early-stage founders.
And the 13 week program of the

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program is just the beginning of
the experience.

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And so, you know, I like to I've
come up with my own mnemonic

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device.
Now on how these accelerators

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work and it's all about time.
T ime, right?

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So the T is for team and that
the cohort together of the 12

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founding teams and how they all
engaged together and become

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their own support group, and how
the techstars team and all the

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founders engaged to got
together.

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And that the types of support
that you can provide I to a

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Founder just by listening,
right?

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And by helping them through
something.

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And but also with the connection
with the next big part of it,

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the I is for investors.
So being able to bring the

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network of investors that we
have in the web, three space to

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bear, for these Founders and get
them going on their fundraising

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journey.
And it's not just the

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connection.
It's about, teaching them how to

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raise money because not
everybody knows how to do that.

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And there are these lots of
little tricks and tips that

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textures have built up over the
years that Can be incredibly

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helpful for that.
The M is for mentors, which is

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the most important part of the
program, which is exploding the

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network of founders, with over
100 mentors coming from all

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different walks of life.
Web, three experts subject

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matter experts in different
functional areas legal

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regulatory Business Leaders,
bringing all that to bear for

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them.
And then e is for education and

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putting Founders through this
educational curriculum.

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That will really make a
difference for them and what we

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Learn the first time around was
that all of those web to Native

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kind of startup. 101 type
sessions were equally as

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important as the web, three
focused ones on things like

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token lifecycle, token Amex,
building your building your

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community, working through
different levels of

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incentivization and how you're
going to package all that up

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together.
So really, we kicked off

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applications.
Last week, officially announced

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it yesterday talking about it
here now as well.

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So a lot more to come.
Over the next few weeks, in

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terms of the media, the video
podcast will be doing the

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events.
The virtual events, Twitter

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space is all, that type of
stuff.

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So we'll be announcing all of
that on a very simple, Twitter

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address.
This time around, it's just

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techstars web 3.
So that's, that's where we're

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headed.
I don't listen with a great

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program.
Obviously, you got to be part of

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it and see the finished product
at the end.

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So delighted that is coming back
again for another one.

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Yeah, yeah, and we're opening it
up a bit more this time as well.

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So they You know, the tagline
I've been using is Builders.

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Got a build and we are in crypto
winter right now, right?

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Lois and Billy's, got to build,
right?

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And with where we are right now
in the industry.

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It's just, I Feel the Rush and
the pressure and the momentum of

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those that are building and
those that are True Builders

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rather than those that are just,
you know, swinging from their

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hips and trying to just muscle
the ball over the, over the

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wall, right?
It's it's difficult.

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Occult.
So because we did learn so much.

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We are pushing this out there as
that we are working with

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entrepreneurs building and web
three enabling the next wave of

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growth in the decentralized
internet and in tokenized

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economies, those are the two
kind of pillars there that

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decentralised internet and
tokenized economies.

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And the questions that we're
going to be asking Founders to

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be.
Hey, for example, are you

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building a company or are you
building an economy?

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If you're building a company,
how are you supporting those in

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web three that are building an
economy?

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Because that's what this is all
about, is that the, these mini

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economies that you build on
blockchain networks, that enable

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you to create this production
and consumption on top of your

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network and what orchestrates
that production and consumption

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is the token.
Okay, so, but in the same light,

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if what you're building, it
looks like just a Centralized

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company with a centralized PL
but you're saying, oh I got this

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token on top of it as well.
Mike and I are gonna really need

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the token that, you know, if
it's, you know, there are ways

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to incentivize people that are
very web to Native that you

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perhaps don't have to engage
yourself in the complexity of

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what three wallets and getting
users on board with that.

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We still have so far to go with
how this is all going to play

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out.
So, you know, dropping some of

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the topics in here as well, that
are going to be important, kind

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of the Level down, we do see
defy and of TS metaverse gaming

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Creator, economy propositions
blockchain infrastructure,

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propositions all playing a big
role, but we know there's a lot

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more taking shape
interoperability layers are

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something that I'm really
excited about investment

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utilities, harking, back to my
old days and traditional

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finance, and seeing how people
are making it easier for make it

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easier for investment, firms
trade, crypto assets and broader

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digital assets, Dow tooling.
Decentralized autonomous

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organizations.
I think there's a big step

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forward that needs to happen.
Their digital identity is

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something.
I'm really excited about seeing

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a lot of things happen and
there's just a whole lot more.

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That's so we we are opening this
up and looking Beyond everything

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else.
It's all about team team team,

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team team team team team.
It's got to be an awesome team

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of Founders and following that
it's your market and how big of

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a market are you selling into
and can you create a gap in the

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market to sell into rather than
just, Trying to sell to the in

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existing Market.
There are something in the

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region of between 2.5 million
daily active users of web, three

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applications or 200 million,
depending upon who's counting.

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You've got to find a way to make
that Mark a bigger right?

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Anyway, we're kicking this off.
Applications are open.

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Now, those will be open until
February 1st and then we kick

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off the program in April and
we're going to do the first week

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in Dublin and then we'll go
remote.

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And then we're going to meet up.
Open to other cities somewhere

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in the world that we haven't
determined yet.

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That will be really we're not
going to keep them a big secret.

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It's that we're going to wait
for the cohort to unfold this

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and also the events to unfold
2023 because you know there's no

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point in meeting up in Paris.
For example in may even though

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it's springtime in Paris is
lovely.

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If there's nothing going on
there in terms of what three and

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that we've got three founders in
Asia and three on the west coast

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of the US.
Right.

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So, you know, we're going to
figure this out on what the next

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two cities are after Dublin?
What that makes sense to do.

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So anyway, long story short.
So we're back on again.

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You're running the back so
kicking off, take it off, kick

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it off over the course of the
last few weeks while we've had a

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few other folks on the show and
some awesome guests with Ali

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Walsh with Nigel, burden that
you.

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And I haven't had the
opportunity to do one of these

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money talk segment.
A few weeks.

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So there's a couple of stories
that I wanted to mention that

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were probably a couple weeks old
but were critically important

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still to where we're going with
this stuff that you and I are

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00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:04,700
excited about.
But that folks is the sound of

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00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:09,300
ft x.
We obviously recorded this

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00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:15,600
episode earlier this week before
all of the news of FTX broke

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00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,800
with been a wave of momentum
building on it.

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00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,400
But unfortunately when Owen and
I recorded this it was not yet

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00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,600
top of the list in terms of
types of things to talk about

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for all of our listeners this
week.

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So I'm doing this emergency
break in just to give a quick

234
00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:40,000
insight into what's going on
with 50 x over the last number

235
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:47,300
of days FTX it liquidity issues
have come to bear and ft x.com

236
00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:49,500
which is their international
business, headquartered in

237
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,700
Bahamas, which is separate, and
distinct from FTX in the u.s.

238
00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:59,500
Again, this is an investment
advice, have Transparently now

239
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:04,500
finally given some insights as
to the problems that they've had

240
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,400
over the last number of days by
Nance the big crypto exchange

241
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,300
competitor to FTX have had
stepped in and looked at perhaps

242
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,100
buying ft x.com international
business.

243
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:19,700
And after a day of doing due
diligence, they decided not to

244
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,700
there.
Have been issues with the FTX

245
00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:28,100
token ftt, and there have also
been contagion with from and

246
00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:33,100
With Alameda research, which is
Sam Bank been freed or SPF as

247
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:35,900
he's known, Quant trading
business.

248
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:42,300
That was had a lot of a lot of
parallel activities going on

249
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:46,900
between between Alameda and FTX.
So without getting into too much

250
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:50,000
of the detail because Owen and I
will definitely dig more into

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00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,700
this next week.
It just wanted to share some

252
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,700
quick insights from the last
couple of days at the token 2049

253
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:58,000
conference that I was at and
around.

254
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:04,200
And in, in London, and probably
one of the best summations of

255
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,700
this that I had heard from Brian
Elders.

256
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:09,500
Who's been on the show before he
still had a source digital

257
00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:11,700
assets.
His view was that we've all

258
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:16,700
taken a bath on crypto recently.
And we're all still in that tub.

259
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:20,800
And now SBF is just turned up
and taken a giant proverbial in

260
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,300
that tub and left it, there
floating with us.

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00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,500
So that's the reality of it but
stepping back and looking at

262
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:28,700
this from the law.
Term?

263
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,800
What I've been saying to
Founders is Builders, got to

264
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,900
build, we just got to build
better and that a lot of these

265
00:14:34,900 --> 00:14:39,000
businesses that we've seen just
implode over the last few

266
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,200
months, be it Celsius three
arrows, Capital Voyager.

267
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:48,100
Now ft x.com.
That I haven't looked inside

268
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:53,300
their controls and operations,
but a number of them don't have

269
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:59,300
either one, the regulatory blood
within their Businesses and that

270
00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:03,300
the regulatory bones in that
mindset of compliance of

271
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:08,600
controls of certification of
assurance that you would find in

272
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,800
regulated Financial Services
business and these crypto

273
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,500
businesses.
The centralized businesses are

274
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:18,900
handling billions and billions
of people's money and whether

275
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,800
that money is denominated in
fiat currency or that value is

276
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,500
denominated in crypto.
It's still holding people's

277
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:30,100
assets.
Not legally in trust, but

278
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:32,000
holding people's Assets in a
manner that they think is safe.

279
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,800
But if you get to the point of
someone like FTX were SPF

280
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,300
yesterday, on Twitter was saying
that one of the main problems

281
00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:43,500
was a Miss labeling of accounts,
on whatever control system they

282
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,500
used or dashboard.
That they had set up to look at

283
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:49,900
the liquidity of the exchange on
a day-to-day basis that bank

284
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,000
accounts were mislabeled.
It's like, come on, you know,

285
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,500
with billions and billions of
assets under control and all the

286
00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:00,200
revenue that Business was
earning, couldn't you have just

287
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:04,300
brought in a Big 4 firm to do
some type of audit on the

288
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:05,800
quality controls of the
business.

289
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,400
I've been doing that for years
and traditional finance and I

290
00:16:08,408 --> 00:16:11,700
think we got to start doing a
lot more of that sock one sock

291
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:15,100
to even the security and Tech
focused ones more around ISO

292
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:18,600
27001, we just got to do a lot
better.

293
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,300
So what I'm saying to folks is,
hey, this is a bump, a massive

294
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:27,800
speed bump on the path to the
growth of digital assets and of

295
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:32,200
the The overall evolution of
financial infrastructure as

296
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,100
we're headed for virtual
societies.

297
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,200
Now I will save that discussion
around virtual societies for

298
00:16:38,208 --> 00:16:41,500
another day, but all of this
stuff is interlinked and it's

299
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:45,000
important that we don't get to
over contagious between what had

300
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,600
happened with a centralized
exchange and their own it

301
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,900
liquidity problems, as well as
the overall Innovation and

302
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:56,000
massive step forward.
The crypto is enabling us to

303
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,000
take.
So that's my rant over for the

304
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,000
day back to the show.
I wanted to have, you know, you

305
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,000
had the first thing that you had
in mind that you wanted to talk

306
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,700
about this week, didn't you?
Yeah.

307
00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:12,200
This was so block or formally
Square.

308
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,800
Tudor quarter, third quarter
earnings there on Thursday of

309
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,400
this week.
No, yes, last week because we're

310
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,500
only on Wednesday, not even.
Jesus is only Tuesday, I'm all

311
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:22,700
over the place with scrap that
bit.

312
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,700
So yeah, block announced our,
they were discussing it on their

313
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:29,400
third quarter earnings last week
about Where the getting to a

314
00:17:29,408 --> 00:17:32,600
cash app and it was Jack Dorsey
was asked and he kind of

315
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,600
addressed it, he said he didn't
have to date yet but it looks

316
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,300
like their aim is to become the
primary bank for their

317
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:41,300
customers.
So mean the 49 million active

318
00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:44,600
users and fifty two billion of
inflows including a huge

319
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,300
increase in direct deposits.
So they're looking more and more

320
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:51,400
like a bank than the kind of
peer-to-peer payment system that

321
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,800
they started out as 10 years
ago.

322
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,500
So I think you know, I doubt
this as a shock to anybody but

323
00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:59,900
at the same time, Interesting to
see him coming out and saying,

324
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:01,500
look, that's the goal at the
focused on.

325
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,900
So, you know, it's a nice kind
of it's been a really nice

326
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,100
consumer point of entry for
them, which has allowed them,

327
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,800
then to leverage that and that
user base, by rolling out, a

328
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,700
kind of a now pay later as near
was purchase, requisition of

329
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:18,200
after pay from last year and I
mean, it's an incredibly

330
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,000
profitable business at the
moment of 774 million in three

331
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,600
months to the end of September
51 percent up from last year.

332
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,900
So it is growing at a
considerable, right?

333
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:30,400
And obviously, He gives them the
ability then to do a lot more

334
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,100
with that.
So it was really interesting is

335
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:35,600
not it's not often that you
would see anyone come out and

336
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,100
expressly say their goal is to
be a bank, but we've seen it

337
00:18:38,108 --> 00:18:40,000
with others, you know?
I think it was Lending Club who

338
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
went off and got their license
and how that had served them in

339
00:18:43,008 --> 00:18:47,800
terms of reducing the cost of
funds and the kind of wider play

340
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,800
that that helped them with.
So yeah, really interesting one,

341
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,000
like we've been a big kind of
fan of everything.

342
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,400
They've been doing a square or
block for the last number of

343
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,900
years and particularly cash app.
I mean it's a huge success

344
00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:59,900
story.
To see someone do like a more

345
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,600
in-depth piece on that just that
piece in particular which are

346
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,100
really impressive.
So, it's good.

347
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:06,900
Interesting to see that.
That's what Jack is coming out

348
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,300
and saying, oh, definitely, and
my favorite quote, from this

349
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,800
article on payments.com is
people come in for various

350
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:18,600
different reasons and they will
find our other services, right?

351
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:23,900
That is just dripping and
overflowing with the word

352
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:28,000
flywheel.
Yes.

353
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,500
You know, it's that and that's
the Disney flywheel.

354
00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:33,800
For example, we talk about it as
being.

355
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,900
You go see the movie, you get
excited about the movie.

356
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:39,400
The characters you want to be
more immersive in that.

357
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,200
You go to the theme park, you
love the theme park.

358
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:43,200
You want to be able to remember
it.

359
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,500
You want to have a Memento of
that.

360
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:46,700
You buy the parts, you get home.
You squeeze the merch.

361
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:50,200
You want to then go in and watch
a movie again, right?

362
00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:52,100
But I do see you adjust and
everything.

363
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:55,500
If you just gone into the Disney
Store and you bought the merch,

364
00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:57,400
right?
You bought the the super cool

365
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,200
new boba.
At and or a Mandalorian thing.

366
00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:03,300
Would that get you to go home
and watch the movie?

367
00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:06,800
Probably, if you started off,
just as a visitor to a theme

368
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,500
park, want you buy some merch
there.

369
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:11,900
So it's wherever you are on the
flywheel wherever you start, if

370
00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:14,200
it's good flywheel.
It should naturally take you to

371
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,100
the next point.
You don't have to start at one

372
00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:19,500
single, same point all the time
and that's what block have now

373
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:23,600
done by integrating.
All these different levers of

374
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,200
consumer-focused as well as
merchant or business-focused be

375
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:32,200
Able to connect businesses to
users and users to businesses at

376
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,700
any single point that you get
onto the block flywheel.

377
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,200
And that is, what is so cool
about this business?

378
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,900
I'm signed up now on the wait
list for cash app here in

379
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:45,100
Ireland, I'm have not decided
granted the privilege of jumping

380
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,000
into that, but I can't wait
because I'm just very eager to

381
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,500
see what this whole experience
here.

382
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,100
Point.
He talks about how they're

383
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:54,700
building, multiple ecosystems,
serve different audiences.

384
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,200
So square is for sellers, you
know, people using a retail Or

385
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,000
disable any cash up for
consumers?

386
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,600
You've titled for musicians, and
then TBD for developers.

387
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,900
And he says, he finishes out the
kind of quote by saying, what

388
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:09,000
makes block unique.
Is their ability to connect all

389
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,800
of these together and to your
point like, it's, it's their

390
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,500
ability to create an open book
yet closed loop cunning

391
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,300
ecosystem.
In the same way, you know, and

392
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,100
we talked about it before when
they acquired title as to how

393
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:23,100
that was going to be a real
interesting play for them

394
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,100
because they were bringing in
the musicians and their

395
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,900
audiences, you know, and it's
been they've been incredibly

396
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,500
successful.
With their kind of strategy

397
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:33,900
around cash app and making it
really kind of popular and kind

398
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:36,900
of getting rappers a music star,
musicians and actors and even

399
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:40,900
sign up to use that and making
it a high-profile egg and going

400
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:44,000
down to musician, kind of rude.
You know, and it's been very

401
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,400
successful in terms of growing
Their audience and their

402
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,400
customer base but like that it's
their ability to move between

403
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,700
the different ecosystems very
easily, you know, and have your

404
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,200
musicians, you know and
obviously been able to use and

405
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,000
square at the point of sale for
anyone.

406
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,600
We, I think we talked about it.
The last time we were mentioning

407
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,000
them, how you can, you know,
they're bypassing the buying

408
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,300
standby potentially having
someone using Square at a point

409
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:09,500
to say on in a, in a shop and
using cash app on the phone or

410
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:12,100
whatever.
And no point do they have to use

411
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:17,400
a bank for any transaction?
Amazing, my woman mom dad were

412
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,100
over like I like I was saying we
were in dun laoghaire on Sunday

413
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,800
at People's Park where they have
the Food Market and my mom had

414
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,700
just figured out Apple pay,
right?

415
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:32,900
And she was delighted.
She was like a you know, my God,

416
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:35,000
it's that easy.
I can just I can double-click on

417
00:22:35,008 --> 00:22:37,000
the side of my iPhone and I can
just use Apple pay.

418
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:40,000
Yeah I said yeah you can.
It's that easy it.

419
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
Now I think that might have been
connected to a perhaps a bank

420
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
issued credit.
Our financial institutions that

421
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,900
you credit card, which is fine,
but it's still making that user

422
00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,300
experience as easy as possible.
And that's what cash app had

423
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:56,100
always been focused on its even
the Simplicity of the name, cash

424
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:59,000
app, right?
No frills just make it simple,

425
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600
make it usable.
So it's not incredibly

426
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,600
impressive what they've managed
to achieve and would like that

427
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,100
putting all those pieces
together started.

428
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,200
They're all interchangeable for
different audiences is.

429
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,100
Yeah, to be impressive.
So yeah.

430
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:13,800
And I did see this tweet, shout
out to Simon Taylor because it

431
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,000
was linked in His fintech is
called fintech brain food.

432
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,700
Yeah.
Fintech brain food newsletter

433
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,700
and that it was a tweet by Rex
Salisbury, who is the founder

434
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:30,000
and GP at Cambrian VC and an
ex-partner at a 16z fintech.

435
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:36,900
And this was basically a chart
of the highest-earning finance

436
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,000
apps.
So, and looking at the arpu or

437
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,600
the average revenue per User,
it's a funny name and rain.

438
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,700
Going from peer to peer
payments, be npl that average

439
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:53,400
about ten dollars in terms of
average revenue per user.

440
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,600
So the amount of Revenue that
you make for each user that is

441
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000
on your platform on average,
right?

442
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:05,600
Very simple to $280 average,
revenue per user for Neo Banks

443
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:12,200
to $850 for crypto exchanges.
And he included in that a whole

444
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,400
chart from something called sort
lists.

445
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,700
That was the highest earning
finance apps.

446
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:20,400
Cash.
App was number three, right?

447
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,400
And launched back in.
October 2013, 44 million users.

448
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,300
Twelve point three billion in
revenue for average revenue per

449
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,700
user of about 280 bucks.
That's pretty, damn good.

450
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:35,500
The highest one was FTX with
only one point two million users

451
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,800
and with a revenue per user of
$850 on 1 billion in Revenue.

452
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,400
So I was you know messaging back
and forth with a guy called

453
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,500
chain.
Yo, check out out to Shane from

454
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:49,800
Swiss WorldVentures and he was
talking about how Swiss Borg

455
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,200
have seven hundred thousand
users already.

456
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,000
And I'm like that is for a kind
of a crypto Investment

457
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,900
Management type app and they're
only 500k users away or more

458
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:03,700
than halfway to FDX.
Yeah, like that's pretty damn

459
00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:07,000
good.
And you know, one more quick

460
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,500
break in from me, obviously, we
recorded this before, the ft x

461
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:14,200
news broke, but some of the
comparisons are obviously still

462
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,400
pretty.
Salient back to the show. but

463
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,900
it's really about what, you
know, I didn't get into their

464
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:24,300
revenue numbers but That's the
driver here.

465
00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:26,800
How many users are you bringing
on and how much money you are

466
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,900
earning off of them?
That's, it's simple math, right?

467
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,100
In order to be these ones like
cash app that have survived

468
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,900
since 2013.
Yeah.

469
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,600
But as well as I because
obviously this 15, they're

470
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,900
listed in that kind of list and
you have t x and finance is the

471
00:25:39,900 --> 00:25:41,600
first to like way ahead of the
rest.

472
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800
In terms of Revenue, per users
by nonce, is nearly six ninety

473
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,300
and CFT, X is 850, put cash up.
Then in third place is, you

474
00:25:49,308 --> 00:25:52,700
know, the next closest one to
catch up as a competitor is

475
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,200
star.
That's easy.

476
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,900
Dollars per user, you know, and
you've cash up a 280, so

477
00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:01,900
considerable difference because
the next kind of the next even

478
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:04,800
closest one and then four places
Robin Hood, but not, I'd like

479
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,300
for like, you know, cash up and
Sterling and then you come

480
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:12,800
further down to chime and even
Revolution at $24, like, the

481
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,500
what they've done and how
they've managed to achieve.

482
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:18,200
It is incredibly impressive.
Oh, I know, and I did notice

483
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,900
darling Bank there as well at
number 5, because that is the

484
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,900
one that we've talked about so
much that When I'm having my

485
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,100
conversations with people that
are outside of the UK and even

486
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:29,600
perhaps even within Europe, that
they're not familiar with

487
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,900
Starling because it is just a UK
play if that's it and having

488
00:26:35,900 --> 00:26:39,700
them at number five, just really
points to how well that that

489
00:26:39,700 --> 00:26:42,300
Starling team has done in
building that business.

490
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,200
So, you know, kudos to them.
And some of the others like

491
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,400
seeing revolute down at number
ten, and twenty six down at

492
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,500
number 11, Manzano at 13.
Again, not Their UK only play

493
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:59,700
but haven't jumped as far into
the whole lending business and

494
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,400
that that Starling have done.
But then karna who launched?

495
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,000
Way back in 2005 be npl, high
volume of users.

496
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:14,700
With 90 million users which is
second only or third, only to

497
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,800
PayPal and coinbase on the list
with their, you know, 1.1

498
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,500
billion.
They're the lowest with just

499
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,900
under twelve dollars in average
revenue per user.

500
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,700
ER so it's a nice little kind of
fintech crypto Hall of Fame list

501
00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:30,200
there.
Yeah, of those top 15.

502
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,700
So shout out to wreck Salisbury.
Thanks for compiling and okay,

503
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,900
it's one, it's one.
We've been talking about for the

504
00:27:35,908 --> 00:27:39,300
last good while now so we've
keep obviously updating as we

505
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:43,200
see our keep discussing it and
I'll see if I can find any more

506
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,100
any deep Dives that have been
done on it and share it

507
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:48,900
interesting to see.
Definitely and I wonder where

508
00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:51,100
Apple might be on this list,
right?

509
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:57,800
Because If Apple pay is a thing
obviously I think I'm not sure

510
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,900
if they carve out these numbers
I saw a chart recently that was

511
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:03,400
carving out some of these
numbers on at least apples

512
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,500
services and Apple pay was
included in that.

513
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:09,000
So the transparency may not be
there in terms of what Apple

514
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,300
does make off of Apple pay.
I don't know what they make off

515
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:14,400
of Apple pay and where they
might fall in this.

516
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:17,300
But it'd be an interesting one
to think about.

517
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,300
Well, yeah, probably harder to
get the exact numbers at the

518
00:28:21,308 --> 00:28:22,900
same time.
Yeah.

519
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,900
You know catch up and do those a
very straightforward you're

520
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:30,000
paying for the service?
Yeah, so in order for a card

521
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,500
issuer to have their cards
integrated into Apple pay, I'm

522
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:40,200
sure that card issuer is paying
Apple something, right?

523
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,400
And I wonder what this would of
interchanges or however, it may

524
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,900
work and I wonder how that might
stack up over time.

525
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,300
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544
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Speaking of Apple, go for a have
put some restrictions in place

545
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,700
around and FTS that are being
pointed at and saying, you know,

546
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,500
Apple kind of saying to the
world.

547
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:11,800
Hey it's not you it's me that
it's you know, they know what

548
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:19,200
they're doing is that With
software updates in iOS, 16.1 it

549
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,500
introduced new app store rules
that limit features unlocked

550
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:27,100
through FTS and mandate apps, to
use apples payment method, to

551
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:31,100
purchase boosts for post on
social media, right?

552
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:34,800
So, the way the whole App Store
Works within apple, is that if

553
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,200
you want to sell something
through, you want your app to be

554
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,200
available on the App Store and
you want to charge people for

555
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,500
that 30% of Whatever your
revenue is on that, as an app

556
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:50,500
developer goes to Apple, right?
That is how the App Store Works

557
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,600
in app.
Purchases.

558
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,600
It's not as clean cut, but for
example there's a whole

559
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,700
classification of things called
reader apps and those are apps.

560
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,300
Were someone initially used to
just read a book like on a

561
00:31:04,308 --> 00:31:05,300
Kindle.
Yep.

562
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:11,300
And that are now consuming shows
on Netflix and on others where I

563
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:14,800
don't think the subscription
price of Netflix for Apple, if

564
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,700
you open that up on the App
Store, I don't think any that

565
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:19,700
Apple get any of that.
Okay?

566
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:21,800
Because that's not good.
That's considered to be a reader

567
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,700
app.
So what they're saying about an

568
00:31:23,700 --> 00:31:26,300
ftes is that, sorry?
What they're saying about

569
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:32,100
digital assets overall, is that
apps are allowed to list, mint,

570
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:34,600
and transfer.
And let users view their own and

571
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,200
FTS non fungible tokens.
However, the ownership of nft

572
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,900
shouldn't unlock any more
features within the app plus,

573
00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:44,900
these apps can let users browse
other Elections.

574
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:48,100
But they shouldn't show external
links buttons or call to action

575
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:51,200
to purchase and FTS.
Users can only purchase nfte

576
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,900
through apples in app payment
system, okay, so it's getting

577
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:56,900
quite complicated here.
I'm just feeling it's

578
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:58,900
complicated.
As I'm reading through this text

579
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:02,400
from TechCrunch, their article
on this going back to the 25th

580
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,800
of October.
But you know the tldr on this is

581
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:12,200
that apple is basically saying
no to end of TS and not that

582
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,500
they're going to completely
restrict them.

583
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,600
But that you can only Buy them
through app store apps if a

584
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,600
portion of the purchase price
goes back to Apple, right?

585
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,100
Which just isn't, I'm not saying
it's not fair, it's very

586
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,900
opportunistic of Apple but I
think the way that things are

587
00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:32,200
going well this mean that
Android will just get the bulk

588
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,000
of the volume know.
I think Google will end up

589
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,500
probably doing the same thing.
It's that users will go through

590
00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:42,200
different mechanisms in order to
you know to participate in this

591
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,300
world.
I think that's the way it's

592
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:45,300
going to happen.
So not good for the industry

593
00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:47,900
because I think all the
reporting was a so applets just

594
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,200
killed and left, he's not the
time.

595
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:55,600
Yeah, let me try to think of a
use case here in an example.

596
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,700
So, one of the big things we've
been talking about, Owen is

597
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:03,600
gaming and in-game assets.
So, if you download a game onto

598
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,500
your iPhone and that game gives
you the option to say, buy a new

599
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:12,900
sword for a game, thirty percent
of the purchase price of that

600
00:33:12,900 --> 00:33:14,200
because that is an in-game
purchases.

601
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:19,500
Is that will go to Apple, okay?
And if you are then saying that

602
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:25,300
owning that nft will allow you
to get access to some special

603
00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:27,600
content that's coming out from
the game publisher.

604
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:28,900
They're saying you can't do that
either.

605
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:32,100
You can't create these special
links you can create these extra

606
00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:37,000
rewards because that is in
contravention of App Store

607
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,300
rules.
So they are placing a lot of

608
00:33:39,308 --> 00:33:43,000
barriers around this whole
industry now and I've kind of

609
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,900
step back and look at get all
this from the perspective of

610
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,700
what was for example back in the
90s Bill Gates and Microsoft had

611
00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,400
this vision of the internet but
they call the information

612
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,800
superhighway and that was kind
of a closed corporate intranet

613
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,300
and it didn't work.
And we haven't heard much about

614
00:34:00,300 --> 00:34:03,300
it and that the internet
obviously became an open thing.

615
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,500
Now, we've gone a little bit of
a different direction with that

616
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:10,100
but with, you know, the likes of
Apple Amazon Netflix, Google

617
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:14,199
Facebook, IE meta, that kind of
on the internet today.

618
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:19,800
And it's become very centralized
and less open and with with web

619
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:25,699
3, the whole idea is open that
up and enable ownership at the

620
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:28,300
Grassroots level and at the
individual level and enable

621
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,199
Builders to build on top of what
other builders are building.

622
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:39,199
And that it's a decentralized
internet and apple are working

623
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,600
against this in my view.
Yeah.

624
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,000
So the other thing that was
interesting that they said

625
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,199
about, This was that they're
also cracking down and crypto

626
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,900
currency exchanges.
Is it now mandates that you need

627
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,300
to have appropriate licensing,
and permissions to provide a

628
00:34:51,308 --> 00:34:54,400
crypto currency exchange in all
regions they operate in.

629
00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:57,700
So, they have the power to
remove a crypto exchange from a

630
00:34:57,700 --> 00:34:59,800
local app store.
If it deems that the app is

631
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,200
illegal for that region.
So there's a lot that goes into

632
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,900
these types of configurations,
should we call them?

633
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,200
And I think that is something
that, you know, a lot of folks

634
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,500
need to be keeping a close eye
on.

635
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:17,200
See usual case of Apple kind of
flexing its muscles where it can

636
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:23,200
definitely while while appearing
to be you know in that example

637
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:27,100
just their they're appearing to
be you know helping to protect

638
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,500
your kids because the consumer
by not having any apps that

639
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:31,100
aren't regulated or licensed up
there.

640
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,100
But at the same time obviously
they can kind of pick and choose

641
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,600
who and what they want to have
on it.

642
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,900
Yep, I don't know where they're
going to end up with this.

643
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:43,300
The one I don't know, saving
that Saving Grace.

644
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:46,900
But I was thinking about VR
today in that.

645
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:51,700
I was listening to one of the a
16z web, three podcasts with

646
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:57,800
Punk 6529 and Chris Dixon Punk
6529 is anonymous and they used

647
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,000
a voice modulator on the podcast
and he is but very, very, you

648
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:08,600
know, has some excellent views
on this whole Space And that he

649
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,900
would he was saying basically
you know when they're when they

650
00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:16,300
moved the conversation from web
three to VR and to metaverse

651
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:19,600
they were talking about you know
those people that stand up these

652
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,400
prognosticators and say that
here is how the world is going

653
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,000
to unfold and here's how VR is
going to play such an important

654
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,700
role.
What this what Punk does is that

655
00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:30,600
he asked them.
Hey, if you ever had a VR

656
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,500
headset on like no, well then
I'm not gonna listen to you if

657
00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:35,600
you never actually done this,
right?

658
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,300
So I'm thinking about what has
been my involvement in with VR

659
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:41,400
headsets, which has been very
minimal, right?

660
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,900
So I've got to go get one, all
right?

661
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,200
And am I going to get the
latest?

662
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,500
What is it the Oculus reparo or
The Meta Pro, the quest Pro or

663
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:54,700
am I going to wait for the Apple
device to come out?

664
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:57,000
I'm going to wait for the Apple
device to come out.

665
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,600
Then I'm kind of continuing to
buy into this whole Apple ethos

666
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,600
and this whole Appo at this
whole Apple view of the world.

667
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,100
I think I'm okay with that
because I think A lot of these

668
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,000
propositions where they're all
going to start.

669
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,100
As we talked about this before
is that you start out in the

670
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:19,300
safe zones and are these safe
zones like a meta delivered

671
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:25,000
version of a closed metaverse.
Maybe that's where this starts,

672
00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:28,900
just like, you know, Bill Gates
with his information

673
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:30,400
superhighway.
Okay.

674
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,500
And we know what came of that.
I don't think metas view will or

675
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,600
met as version of this will
last, but it's a place for

676
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,500
people to start for people to
feel safe for people to get

677
00:37:41,500 --> 00:37:43,900
their head into this game,
literally.

678
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,000
But you can see why you, like we
can, we talk about it matter, it

679
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,800
makes sense because they're
trying to move to the next, you

680
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,600
know, stage and they have that
captive audience.

681
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,300
But Apple can do it easier
because we're used to buying

682
00:37:56,300 --> 00:37:58,200
products and Hardware products
from Apple.

683
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,000
So Apple, you know, rolling out
a VR headset for a particular

684
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,400
purpose but people would
probably biased because it fits

685
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,500
in with all the other Capo's
stuff that they have and it

686
00:38:08,500 --> 00:38:11,200
seamlessly integrated and you
can just turn it on it works and

687
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,500
everything.
Of course more people will do

688
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,900
that and reality is that will
filter down then.

689
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:18,500
Like you look at all of you.
Look at every smartphone on the

690
00:38:18,508 --> 00:38:19,900
market over the last number of
years.

691
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:22,700
They've ended up just as some
copy of what apple is product.

692
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,300
You know, so likely, you know,
Apple Roads RV or headset next

693
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,200
year and then the following
Year, everyone has some fairly

694
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,300
similar version of it.
Yeah.

695
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,800
So similarly, metaverse and and
all that will happen will come

696
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,200
from someone like that.
I just think that matter.

697
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:42,900
The matter Facebook one is, you
know, it didn't fit into what

698
00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:45,800
they were doing before hand.
So it's a massive leap.

699
00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:50,900
You know where as it does that
someone on the gaming side we

700
00:38:50,908 --> 00:38:53,500
talk about it where you're
already watching a screen and

701
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,000
that's that's your what you're
doing with that product.

702
00:38:56,100 --> 00:38:59,500
Well then it's not a big leap
yet going from you know posting

703
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:04,300
pictures on my Facebook page to
then talk into my friends in

704
00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:06,700
virtual reality is a is a huge
leap.

705
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:11,700
It is and no one wants to do it
right when I was at Elks, Dome

706
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:15,800
partners with and it has Ali
from Phillip Lee, shout out to

707
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,000
both of those organizations.
Since Phillip Lee and Alex down

708
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,600
one of the guys from Oak.
Stone said.

709
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,300
So wait, wait, wait, wait, if
you are like meta first, why

710
00:39:23,300 --> 00:39:26,000
would I want to have a meeting
in VR?

711
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,900
I'm like, I wouldn't want to
either the it's that with the

712
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:31,000
angle.
This is going to develop from.

713
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,000
Is the angle were people already
are in front of screens all the

714
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,900
time, which is that gaming?
And those that are significantly

715
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:42,500
working way too much and spent
too much time engaging via

716
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:48,400
screens like me right that when
there is Is a better experience,

717
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,500
but I still need to take a break
from that.

718
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:54,800
So I'm not going to be immersed
in this all the time, gamers are

719
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,500
totally course rabid with all
this stuff and that they will

720
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:04,900
drive.
The first few incantations of a

721
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:08,000
live 3D version of the internet
which is again Matthew balls,

722
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,800
definition of the veteran like
which is I think where Coolidge

723
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,600
and I don't know how it would
work but you know why would you

724
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,600
want to create and go online and
have another?

725
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:20,600
Our version of yourself, you
know, like I find it now because

726
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,900
we're going back hybrid, there's
plenty of meetings that I dial

727
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:26,800
into where everyone else is in
person and it's clunky, you

728
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,200
know, once people start talking
together, you can't, you kind of

729
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,600
lose track and they can't hear
you, then you to try speak over

730
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,600
them from the computer.
So, you could imagine a scenario

731
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,300
in the future whereby, you know,
you can't make it to something,

732
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:41,600
you're one of your family's
events over in the US, but

733
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,500
they're there in person and you
slot on your headset and you are

734
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:47,300
there as an avatar, or a
hologram or something that at

735
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:49,500
least people can interact with
you and you can interact with

736
00:40:49,508 --> 00:40:51,600
them.
So you're almost physically

737
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,000
there.
Yep.

738
00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:55,600
You know, I could imagine that
scenario or a situation where

739
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,500
you want to put yourself like in
a physical, almost physical

740
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:01,300
setting.
Yeah, that make that to me would

741
00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:03,300
make sense and I can understand.
Oh, yeah, that would be worth

742
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,000
doing.
Yeah, it does.

743
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,500
Like we already have Fami
family, gatherings, where

744
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:09,800
so-and-so can't make it.
And that there's a big screen

745
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,400
down in the basement of my
parents house and that we put

746
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,000
FaceTime up on that.
Yeah.

747
00:41:14,300 --> 00:41:17,700
And you hey if you want to talk
to Two family members, go

748
00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:19,100
downstairs.
You're going to be there, go

749
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:21,800
have a chat and that yeah, that
is just going to move from a

750
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,700
flat to D that will move to a 3D
hologram type interaction, which

751
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,300
I think it'd be cool.
I think of all the wedding to go

752
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:36,000
to be me up.
Owen, mix it up my my stars here

753
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,900
between Star Trek Star Wars,
which I, you know, that's fine

754
00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:41,800
because I know where I stand at
all those things.

755
00:41:41,808 --> 00:41:43,600
So I can't exactly where I want,
right?

756
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,200
But the just two other quick
things I wanted to To mention.

757
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,600
Yeah one was Reddit defying
crypto winter and creating the

758
00:41:51,607 --> 00:41:54,200
10 million dollar market for
customizable avatars.

759
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,000
Just don't call them FTS.
That was the story that came out

760
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,000
at Fortune crypto and the third
in November.

761
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,200
Obviously, this been developing
over the last couple of weeks

762
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,600
and that Reddit issuing digital
Collectibles is what they're

763
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,700
calling them.
And I think that people are kind

764
00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:08,700
of painting them a bit and
saying, oh, they're in fda's,

765
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:10,800
why do you calling digital
Collectibles and like, well, and

766
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,500
if T is the name of the
technology digital collectibles

767
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:16,600
in name of the actual utility or
the usability or the use case of

768
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:24,000
So, the best examples of those
that are issuing and FTS in

769
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,200
sports and media, they've
already started calling them

770
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,000
digital collectible.
Shout out to big fan.

771
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,900
And Kurt Pittman, and Eugene,
O'Brien with through my first

772
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:34,700
text nurse cohort, who are
working on this and got their

773
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:39,000
first beta product market place
up there running in the last

774
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,200
month.
But the big thing is in this

775
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,900
again came from this a 16z web
three podcast with Punk that The

776
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:50,000
digital Collectibles, you need
to organize people in the

777
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,200
physical world, it can't just
be.

778
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,300
Hey, I'm buying this.
Like, I'd buy a pack of baseball

779
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:56,300
cards.
Yeah.

780
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,100
And that I do.
Nothing else with it.

781
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,700
It's a very, very small small
tiny tiny Market, you've got to

782
00:43:00,707 --> 00:43:02,500
create that engagement.
You got to be able to organize

783
00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:05,000
people in the physical world.
With all this will see how red

784
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,500
it does with great, they created
these digital Collectibles, it

785
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:11,400
earned them ten million dollars,
we'll see where it goes, but

786
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,700
it's really all about the post
purchase functionality of the

787
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:18,300
digital collectible.
That is going to make all the

788
00:43:18,308 --> 00:43:21,700
different tier and bringing
people into in real life

789
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:23,800
experiences.
Bringing people into metaverse

790
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,200
driven experiences at the very
beginnings of this, Reddit user

791
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,700
group with VR headsets in
Roblox.

792
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,900
Wonderful.
Let's do it.

793
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:34,300
I'm up for it.
I just need to get that damn VR

794
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:37,300
headset.
Shout out to anyone.

795
00:43:37,300 --> 00:43:40,000
Who's offering to set donate a
VR headset to peace.

796
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:44,800
I know I know we'll get there.
We got there.

797
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,700
My kids may have one before me
but we'll see.

798
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,800
Feeling.
Alright, gaming, gaming chairs.

799
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,300
That's the focus for Christmas
this year.

800
00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:55,200
I know immediately and set.
I need a gaming table like the,

801
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,200
we got my, my ten-year-old for
his birthday, the steering wheel

802
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,300
for yeah.
Xbox - just same steering wheel

803
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:04,800
for Mario Kart, but he needs
like somewhere to have it set up

804
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,900
at all times.
Yeah, constantly I screwed on

805
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:07,500
and off.
Yeah.

806
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,500
Yeah.
So they spelt, they sell special

807
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:13,700
tables for that, but they cost
even more than the actual

808
00:44:13,700 --> 00:44:16,100
steering wheel itself, even as
much as a VR headset.

809
00:44:16,100 --> 00:44:19,800
So, okay, fair enough.
Joe, what?

810
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,700
I had one last thing.
I said, I told in, I know we

811
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:24,800
talked about flywheels earlier,
I came across this one and I

812
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,900
came across a tweet and I send
myself to treat and it's since

813
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:29,800
been taken down, which is really
annoying because it is

814
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,100
articulated the entire thing I
want to tell you in like two

815
00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:33,800
tweets.
So I now have to like piece it

816
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,900
together from memory but
actually one that I had never

817
00:44:36,900 --> 00:44:41,800
thought of and it was Harry
stebbings from 2020 VC, 20V.

818
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,500
See now when TV CES 2009 TV CPS
in the 12v c-d-c.

819
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,800
Yep.
And it was actually to do Reese

820
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,400
Witherspoon and are hello,
sunshine, media brand.

821
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,900
So obviously, everyone knows
very popular actress.

822
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:58,300
She's very good, but she started
out with her book club, built up

823
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:01,900
to two-and-a-half million
members, and what happened then

824
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:05,800
was it became so popular that
people were trying to get their

825
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,700
books onto their Book Club list
and her company then on the

826
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:11,900
other side was offer.
It will saying OK we'll we'll

827
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000
include you in our Book Club
list but we want the rights to

828
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,900
produce some of these into TV
shows and in like watching 2020,

829
00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:22,700
they had that they were
nominated for a teen Emmys, and

830
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:25,200
they were awarded the most
second, most Innovative company

831
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,000
in media by fast company.
So, out of her book club became

832
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:36,000
obviously the brand and The
Business of producing leading TV

833
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,400
shows which then led to them
being acquired for 900 million

834
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,000
dollars last year.
Wow.

835
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,100
Crazy.
Well, so that is, I didn't

836
00:45:44,100 --> 00:45:45,800
realize I didn't connect the
dots.

837
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,100
I knew about its Acquisition
because I was like, oh, that's

838
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:50,200
very impressive.
And I've watched the shows like

839
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,200
little fires every.
I think the fires everywhere

840
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,200
something, which is really good,
and a few of the shows they

841
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,400
bought that of the books that
they've turned into, but I

842
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,300
hadn't connected the dots on it.
So incredibly impressive connect

843
00:45:59,300 --> 00:46:02,600
the dots on a flywheel.
Absolutely, absolutely not.

844
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:04,100
When we take off but a good
example.

845
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:07,400
Very good example to hear.
She got stabbed Reese.

846
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,400
What's your name?
Grease.

847
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:11,800
The one we're just talking about
Reese.

848
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,300
What's her name with a spoon?
No, with a knife.

849
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:19,600
Okay, we have to cut that one
piece.

850
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:25,200
Jesus that's staying in that
stayed in tone and keep that in

851
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,100
please.
Brilliant.

852
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:27,000
Brilliant.
Love us.

853
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,200
Alright bit slow this morning so
we will really leave it there.

854
00:46:31,300 --> 00:46:34,800
Yeah absolutely I'm not no sir.
All right thanks for talk to you

855
00:46:34,808 --> 00:46:42,200
buddy.
Adios That does it for this week

856
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,200
folks, you can learn more about
the stories we covered in the

857
00:46:44,207 --> 00:46:46,200
show, notes on our website and
money, never sleeps that.

858
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,500
I also thanks to Conan Brophy,
from create sound for mixing and

859
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:51,500
editing.
This episode Conan is an

860
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:53,500
excellent meeting man to get in
touch with when you're thinking

861
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:54,900
about launching your own
podcast.

862
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,800
As for me, I'm an early stage,
startup investor focused on

863
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,600
where fintech meets crypto and
crypto meets web.

864
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,300
Three are plenty of links in the
show notes on money, never

865
00:47:02,300 --> 00:47:05,300
sleeps that IE on how to get in
touch with us so don't hesitate

866
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:07,700
to reach out finally till next
time.

867
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,100
Thanks for listening.
See you?